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Author Topic: Code Geass R2  (Read 79125 times)

Offline Shadowmage

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Code Geass R2
« on: April 13, 2008, 11:57:13 AM »
Epsiode 2

ANSWERS!  WE'VE GOT ANSWERS!

It's only episode two and the game's back on.  Good job Sunrise.  That was one epic 24 minutes.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2008, 02:31:32 PM by Shadowmage »

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Offline TypicalIdiotFan

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2008, 04:35:32 AM »
Episode 2

This feels so awkward.  Except for the twists and turns to the plot, these two episodes have been exactly like the first two episodes of the first series.

Lelouch doing to play some games, meets a chick, who's shot in front of his eyes, but she's not only not dead but gives him the power of Geass.

Takes a mech, forms a makeshift army, takes on the ruler of Area 11, defeats the Brittainian army, kills the governor.

Same thing.  Worse, in two episodes they basically are picking up from the end of episode 23.  Yes, 23.  Not 24 or 25.  Zero's back in power, public hero, United States of Japan, yadda yadda yadda.

But as clumsy as all that felt, I understand the point behind it.  They have to bring the "new" audience up to speed with the rest of us, who are instead of getting caught up orgasming over the new developments...

of Kallen's tits...

There's a lot that happened in this episode otherwise.  Kallen's confrontation of Lelouch / Zero was satisfying enough, though I'd be happier if this wasn't over here.  Her speech about wanting to know if her motivation was all her own feelings was a great touch.  She's essentially begging Lelouch to tell her that he didn't Geass her into doing all this.  What's great about it is Lelouch managed to tell her what she needed to hear without actually admitting whether he used it on her or not.  Thus, she still believes she can be controlled.  She also has no idea the limitations of the Geass, or she'd know that while she was talking to him, whatever command he gave her would have done it.

But there's another problem.  Lelouch seems to have it up the whole time in this episode, which is how it should be.  In the next episode previews, it seems he's capable of suppressing it again, which might take s'more explanation.  We still don't see any reaction from Shirley either, nor any explanation why she's referring to him as Lulu again.  By the end of the first season, she'd still "forgotten" their past together but she knew he was Zero, which caused her a lot of confusion.  No explanation for that yet.

We got one partial explanation for Rolo, then we got a kick in the nuts at the end.  This'll be interesting.

I totally dug the scene with the Emperor.  Everything about it was awesome.  Lelouch's fierce anger at what the Emperor was going to do to him.  Suzaku's coldness towards Lelouch AND his jackassed way of getting into a position of power.  I totally loved that!  Suzaku wouldn't have done that in season one, but season two Suzaku is a much more ambitious and terrifying person.

I STILL don't like the idea that the emperor just put Lelouch back into Area 11 at the Brittanian school.  Even if he was being used as bait to somehow lure out C.C., the emperor was awfully short sighted in putting Lelouch into a position where he could become Zero again.  I said before in the first season that the Emperor seemed to be rather pleased with what Lelouch was doing.  Perhaps he never wanted Zero captured to begin with and he wanted to see just how far Lelouch could go.  Who knows.  It reeks of plot devicing tho.

BRING ON MORE... I WANT MORE!
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Offline Shadowmage

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2008, 06:25:27 PM »
Episode 3 part 4
ROFL
« Last Edit: April 15, 2008, 07:34:52 PM by Shadowmage »

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Offline Sorrow-kun

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2008, 04:20:57 PM »
This is the "leak" I'm guessing (pointless now that the episode has aired).  Were there any differences between that and the actual episode that went to air?

Offline Shadowmage

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2008, 04:37:33 PM »
No, there was none that I could catch.

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Offline TypicalIdiotFan

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2008, 04:41:11 AM »
Episode 3,

Not sure what the point of the leak was.  It made little sense without seeing the first part of the episode.

Anyway, this episode showed what I was trying to point out in the Geass thread for the first series:  Lelouch isn't a complete monster, especially when it comes to the people he knows from the school.  I don't believe he could ever directly cause any of them harm, and he'd protect them if he could, which is evidenced by his seething hatred at their memories being messed with as well.

Hypocritical, sure, since he was the one who took Shirley's memories away of him in the first series, but I think we can all agree the circumstances were vastly different.  Which brings me to my beef for this one...

Why did Shirley get her memories of Lelouch erased by Lelouch, start to find clues of her previous memories and the truth of Lelouch towards the end of the first series, and then end up forgetting all of that AND getting all her memories of Lelouch back pre-Zero?

In other words... WHAT WAS THE ****ING POINT, SUNRISE?!  It was so much more interesting having Shirley be a wild card.  Could she screw the whole pooch with her knowledge of Lelouch being Zero?  What would she do with that knowledge and would she remember everything that happened?  All that wonderfully interesting mystery toast because... well.. it just doesn't matter now whether she knows or not.  Plot circumstances change, therefore old unfinished plot angles have to be eliminated.

Too bad.

Ah well, I'm still digging the crap out of this.
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Offline Shadowmage

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2008, 02:11:22 PM »
Episode 4

Oh crap, they did it again.  Once again, I love the direction the story went, but I hate how it got there.

EDIT On second thought, MISAAA!  Is that you?  GTFO!

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Offline C0MPL3X

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2008, 05:49:30 AM »
ok just watched it and...what the hell was with that soap opera? Funny thing is, I can't get mad at it for being so unbelievably contrived and sappy, you can't help but enjoy such a over the top melodrama. Anyway, looks like Chinese and Japanese are going to be allies after all. More nods to RTK with that yellow rebellions reference, sometimes I think Lelouch is just an evil and selfish version of Zhuge Liang. The Chinese guy also reminds me of Wu's leader, whose policy was to sit and watch two powers hurt each other without lifting his own finger.

And one might have thought Villeta thought it was 'over' between her and Ogi when she put a BULLET through his stomach. Well...I guess Sunrise needed even more needless sideplots to keep the plot more spicy.

Offline TypicalIdiotFan

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2008, 05:42:58 PM »
4,

Argh.  I wasn't really sure what the point of Rolo was in the first place.  I then wondered why they gave him a Geass.  And now, I'm wondering how much more contrived he can get.  He's going to melt for Lelouch's sappy words of family and whatever after being a cold and brutal murderer for most of his life?

C'mon, even Smaegol had to have an argument with himself before he was brought back from the abyss.  Lord Vader needed to see his son getting electrocuted by a wrinkly old Dark Lord of the Sith before he came back from the Dark Side.  All it takes for Rolo is 15 minutes worth of dialogue and a moment of self sacrifice by Lelouch?  C'mon Sunrise, we're smarter then that.

Then again, seeing as how this is prime time, maybe they're dumbing it down.

But Shadowmage is right... Rolo has become Lelouch's Misa, which might be the worst thing to happen in this show since episode 19.
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Offline Shadowmage

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2008, 10:05:59 AM »
Episode 5 RAW

Woah, talk about twenty four minutes of pure pandering.  This has pretty much been a hybrid between Suzaku's introduction in the first season and the school festival.  There was some lulz to be had a boatload of moe.  I really thought the episode felt quite disjointed, but at least it moved the plot forward along with the mindless fluff.

Anyways, the ending was evil... EVIL!

I loved it.

I recommend Mobile Suit, RX-0 and Unicorn from the Unicorn OST.

Offline TypicalIdiotFan

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2008, 02:00:59 AM »
Episode 5,

GIANT LOADS OF SHIT BALLS!

If you saw that coming, you're a ****ing liar.

I had some fun with this episode despite it being nothing but a fanservice kick.  The tensions between Suzaku and Lelouch were plain as day even before Suzaku pulled that little stunt at the end.  I admit, I'm liking this bastardized version of Suzaku a lot more then the wet behind the ears Suzaku of yore.

We get a few more time-skip questions answered, but not really from a source I was asking a bunch on.  Hearing about Milly's situation with Lloyd was interesting, if unimportant.  Or was it?  Hard to say.

The humor in this was pretty well done.  Of course C.C was going to show up for the second attempt at a giant pizza.  I didn't expect Kallen to show up, too, and the manner in which she did was hysterical.  Lelouch unceremoniously knocking C.C. into the vat of tomatoes to cover his ass just made me howl.  Oh, and....



... God damn Kallen is hot.

I'm trying to figure out what's with the box with the awfully angry writing on it.  Rivalz mentioned that it was Nina's, but who the heck is "beard-face"?  Regardless, whatever it is seems to be pretty damn important.

The most disjointed parts of the episode involved Villeta Nu.  Those who have seen it know what I mean.  To call that a "pretty big jump" would be understating the retarded way it was executed.

But Geass is still the best anime on TV, so I'll let this episode's pandering and clumsiness slide because that ending was so damn epic.  Now whatcha gonna do Lelouch?  This is turning into one hell of a chess match.
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Offline Shadowmage

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2008, 06:15:53 PM »
Quote from: TypicalIdiotFan;12890
I'm trying to figure out what's with the box with the awfully angry writing on it.  Rivalz mentioned that it was Nina's, but who the heck is "beard-face"?  Regardless, whatever it is seems to be pretty damn important.
Nah, it was a short "conflict" that was resolved this episode.

This has been brought to you by Pizza Hut.





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Offline TypicalIdiotFan

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2008, 09:39:51 PM »
This was me, not paying any attention at all.  I still don't know who the hell Beard Face is.
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Offline C0MPL3X

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #13 on: May 06, 2008, 02:18:39 AM »
Well there's only one bearded character in the whole series. And that doesn't really make too much sense considering why C.C would leave such a message on a box for him...

Offline Shadowmage

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2008, 10:38:07 AM »
Episode 6

With this episode, the show has reached new lows.  This wasn't terrible per se, but it was incredibly generic.  Most of the time was spent on super robot fight scenes that were average at best, and what little drama there was felt kind of cheap.  

The only thing I liked about this episode was Zero's walk inside the floating fortress.  I loved how he was leaving such a bloody carnage  in his wake as he approached Nunnally.  It really establishes the monster he has become, and it sets the ground for Nunnally's reaction.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2008, 04:33:28 PM by Shadowmage »

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Offline royal crown

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #15 on: May 11, 2008, 06:16:32 PM »
Ok, ok ok, I haven't seen any of season 2, but from what I remember of season 1 the subs I watched used "Nanaly." As a result, I never knew that the actual name for the character was Nunally. Wow. That's a terrible name.

OK, go back to discussing; I didn't read anything in this thread other than that godawful name.

Offline Sorrow-kun

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #16 on: May 12, 2008, 07:29:29 PM »
Quote from: Shadowmage;12994
Episode 6

With this episode, the show has reached new lows.  This wasn't terrible per se, but it was incredibly generic.  Most of the time was spent on super robot fight scenes that were average at best, and what little drama there was felt kind of cheap.  

The only thing I liked about this episode was Zero's walk inside the floating fortress.  I loved how he was leaving such a bloody carnage  in his wake as he approached Nunnally.  It really establishes the monster he has become, and it sets the ground for Nunnally's reaction.


It started off well.  The Rollo scene was typical Geass-awesomeness (though his perfect timing gives even more weight to the Misa comparisons), but Lakshata turning up when she did was a pretty blatant DEM.  And the fight was drawn out.  I think mostly the point of it was to give Kallen's Guren its flying extension.  Although the general seeking to bring down his own ship rather than having others take credit for the battle was mildly amusing.  Somewhat part of the greater theme in this of Britannia being filled with narcissists, while the Black Knights are willing to sacrifice themselves for the greater good (yes, an oversimplification of what's really happening, but the trend is there.)

The Nunnally issue could be Lelouch's biggest challenge to date.  He's not going to want to manipulate her as he's done with Rollo and others in the past, simply because of his own principles towards her.  This will be interesting.
Quote from: royal crown;12999
Ok, ok ok, I haven't seen any of season 2, but from what I remember of season 1 the subs I watched used "Nanaly." As a result, I never knew that the actual name for the character was Nunally. Wow. That's a terrible name.

OK, go back to discussing; I didn't read anything in this thread other than that godawful name.

Didn't you ever read Romeo & Juliet.  What's in a name?  Also, you must have watched crap subs. :p

Offline TypicalIdiotFan

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #17 on: May 13, 2008, 01:22:47 AM »
Episode 6,

I see your points, SM, but I don't agree with all of them.  Here's what I agree with / didn't like...

Rolo's timing was way too contrived, though I suppose he could have been tailing Suzaku the whole time.  Rolo is pretty well wanting to kill him, so it wouldn't surprise me.  I know that Lelouch wasn't expecting that, so he sure as heck didn't order Rolo to do so.  I still believe that the "weakness" of Rolo's Geass is not one at all.  It's a test to see if Lelouch ever tries to use that "weakness" to kill Rolo.

The entire sequence with the Gurren was just pure shit.  LOL launch a rocket that figures out all the trajectories and telemetries necessary to link up perfectly with an object that's not exactly falling in a straight line.  LOL launch another rocket that will put the LOL new arm on mech.  LOL new arm kicks ass even over the previous "hax" mech, the Lancelot.  Way too much DEM for my tastes in one scene.  But, hey, if you're going to DEM, go bonkers.  Why not.

Laws of Physics being abused again.  Lelouch just gets blown from an open hole when the ship crashes and explodes right into the waiting arms of the Gurren.  Y'know, they didn't have to have the thing explode.  They could have just had Lelouch run out of there while the thing sank and jump into the water.  Then again, big object, "hard" object, collision... nobody gets tossed around with lethal force.  Not in anime.

I do like, however, that Lelouch stuck to his principles when it came to his little sister.  I had just finished watching the Dub Geass episode on [as] where he flat out says he could never lie to her and so it seems he's a man of his word.

I do like that Nunnally picked up on it immediately.  She has no idea what it is that's wrong, she just knows that something is wrong between Suzaku and Lelouch.  While she'll trust Suzaku, especially if it came down to a choice between him and Zero, she'll be suspicious of his motivations now.  Lelouch has allowed her to become a wild card by telling her that they can't be together and, seemingly, it has something to do with Suzaku.  She doesn't know that it also has a lot to do with Lelouch's alternate lifestyle, but she has the capacity now to be a more important character then Euphemia ever was.

I believe SM's being unfair when he's questioning the drama scenes.  I thought they were done relatively well.  Well, okay, I thought the Lelouch/Zero / Nunnally scenes were done well.  Lelouch is pretty boned when it comes to Nunnally, and he may have exposed himself too much by wanting to kidnap her instead of kill her.

And, as always, C.C. is being the jealous bitch.  I like comparing her to Medina of Jason and the Argonauts lore.  She gives him the power, allows herself to be used by him, but he still loves another.  She questioned him and his motivations about Shirley, about Euphie, and now she's questioning him and his motivations about Nunnally, almost hinting that destroying Brittania is more important then destroying Brittania FOR Nunnally's sake.  She's trying to corrupt his motivations and it's really fun to watch.
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Offline royal crown

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #18 on: May 13, 2008, 01:39:10 PM »
Actually it was Shinsen Subs; I always was under the impression they were one of the better subbers. Also, I hate you guys; I'm picking this series up now. Will post impressions later.

Offline royal crown

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #19 on: May 18, 2008, 04:24:28 PM »
Up to ep 6: Interesting second season. I think it's gonna be interesting to see how Lelouch behaves. Will he simply abandon everything all of his humanity, since his primary (if not singular) motivation for assuming Zero is now pretty much gone? If so, the series might take turn for the worse, because it'll become pretty generic as a revenge story. Either way, it's definitely intriguing. The whole super-robot scheme wasn't really that bad IMO considering the high production values, but I think it detracted a bit too much from the Nanaly-Lelouch confrontation and made the scene a little bit too over-the-top.

Offline Shadowmage

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #20 on: May 18, 2008, 05:04:46 PM »
Episode 7

In typical Code Geass style, a lot has been resolved and a lot more doors have been open.  I thought that Lelouch's downhill slump was done quite well, and his childish antics was amusing to watch.  His recovery was... well, I liked that it was short and somewhat plausible (though Rolo does still irk me).  

In regard's to Zero's "answer," I find a repeat of the previous season impossible unless Goro Taniguchi is really dead and Sunrise is putting his name down to add credibility (all that he deserves from Infinite Rvyius and Planetes).  It's an interesting direction overall, and I like episodes that overtly screws with an already fragile protagonist.   I just hope that this whole subplot about Nunnally is not resolved with a plot device... ehehehehe

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Offline TypicalIdiotFan

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #21 on: May 18, 2008, 07:08:13 PM »
Quote from: Shadowmage;13065
In regard's to Zero's "answer," I find a repeat of the previous season impossible unless Goro Taniguchi is really dead and Sunrise is putting his name down to add credibility (all that he deserves from Infinite Rvyius and Planetes). It's an interesting direction overall, and I like episodes that overtly screws with an already fragile protagonist. I just hope that this whole subplot about Nunnally is not resolved with a plot device... ehehehehe

Tho I haven't seen 7 yet, this has been bugging me for some time, too.  Everything we've seen so far has been a rehash or a redo of things we saw in season one.  In some cases, almost verbatim.  While the people and situations have changed somewhat, we're almost at the point right where we left off.
 
I'm guessing that a lot of that was done to bring along the new viewers in the prime time slot, but if this is some weird attempt at making this struggle of Lelouch's circular, it's going to annoy me.  There are still too many questions unanswered that I don't like (Shirley's reset is still bugging me) and need to be resolved before the plot can truly move forward.
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Offline royal crown

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #22 on: May 18, 2008, 09:49:13 PM »
Episode 7: I love the speech made in the opening of the anime. It pretty much would indicate that Zero's answer is not really going to take form. I have a feeling that the Black Knights will reject his decision and go against him, unless he changes his mind (possibly after being betrayed or some such thing). Of course, this is all conjecture so I digress.

As for the resolution of Lelouch's condition, I didn't like it so much. In fact, I hated it. His resignation came to the conclusion that I would expect, but the manner in which it did so was totally lame. Does he still think nothing of the fact that the Black Knights are totally his responsibility, and surely they would be executed if they were to surrender? He's personally responsible for his men, and though I don't expect him to act so maturely even a child can understand this without some wishywashy crap about a "happy life." Granted, this isn't a slight against the anime because I think they hit all of the right spots, it's just an aspect of Lelouch's character that bothers me.

Finally, yes, I do think that they're going to go for the struggle=circular route, in one way or another. I think this is alluded to with the heaviness of Lelouch's helmet. But we'll see. It's not like they won't make massive profit either way.

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #23 on: May 19, 2008, 02:46:39 AM »
Agree with most comments so far.  The depression was well done, but the resolution wasn't all too convincing.  Code Geass isn't at its best when it's trying to be meaningful and uplifting, it's at its best when it's flooring its viewers with unpredictable plot twists.

But yeah, some of the formulas are starting to become a bit obvious.  There's a "we've seen this before" feeling to a lot of things in this episode, but as TIF points out, that's been a bit of a pattern with this entire series (probably its biggest flaw to date).  It'll be interesting to see where this goes, nonetheless.

Offline C0MPL3X

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #24 on: May 19, 2008, 07:57:37 PM »
Quote from: royal crown;13067
As for the resolution of Lelouch's condition, I didn't like it so much. In fact, I hated it. His resignation came to the conclusion that I would expect, but the manner in which it did so was totally lame. Does he still think nothing of the fact that the Black Knights are totally his responsibility, and surely they would be executed if they were to surrender? He's personally responsible for his men, and though I don't expect him to act so maturely even a child can understand this without some wishywashy crap about a "happy life." Granted, this isn't a slight against the anime because I think they hit all of the right spots, it's just an aspect of Lelouch's character that bothers me.

Mm I had an impression that everyone, including Zero and Black Knights, were invited by Euphie to collaborate. I mean, isn't that why Zero appeared and Suzaku couldn't attack him at the end? If Zero can be forgiven, I don't see why other Black Knights should be executed considering the fact that his crime is worth way more than all of them put together. Of course, the notion of terrorists suddenly living a happy public life without anything happening to them is reallllly pushing it, which is why I think Euphie massacre #2 will prevent something that awkward and stupid from happening in the first place.

As for the episode itself, excellent episode, I thought this was one of very few times in R2 where I felt the characters were more than just tools.

And shot down by Kallen Lulu...better luck next time.

*btw, I also love the new addition of string piece they played when the boats were exploding, which I think were also used when upgraded Kallen beat the crap out of all the mechas. This reminded me of Aria the Natural because Natural used this particular song (can't remember the name), a beauuutiful song that wasn't in Animation to enhance many crucial scenes.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2008, 08:11:59 PM by C0MPL3X »

Offline royal crown

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #25 on: May 20, 2008, 02:40:34 PM »
I think the distinction can be made between what Euphie had and what Nanaly currently has, because even though they were both political tools, Euphie had more jurisdiction than Nanaly currently has, at least from what's apparent right now, hence I think that the Black Knights would probably be killed off (hell, if not Zero being assassinated altogether) to prevent any sort of uprising altogether.

Offhand, I agree with the music at the point of explosion. One thing Code Geass has always done well is having epic music to set the mood really well.

Offline Shadowmage

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #26 on: May 25, 2008, 04:17:59 PM »
Episode 8

So, Zero has his army. While I question the plausibility of the maneuver, I do have to applaud its creativity. This allows Zero to move his entire army where he wants without worrying about Britannian intervention. It seems that we've finally started the real season 2.

I recommend Mobile Suit, RX-0 and Unicorn from the Unicorn OST.

Offline royal crown

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #27 on: May 26, 2008, 12:40:08 AM »
Yeah, this requires a large deal of suspension of disbelief (come on, the smoke was there for 15 seconds, and everyone got changed into masks and capes that appeared out of nowhere?), but the concept is unique, and it does seem to break away from circularity a bit. It acts as a "what if Euphie didn't go batshit crazy and kill everyone" scenario, and leaves on a MAJOR cliffhanger. I think Suzaku will soon start to catch on that nobody could know his psychology that much other than Lelouch, and his cover might be blown very soon, which adds to the tension between him and Rolo. This is looking complicated - I like it.

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #28 on: May 26, 2008, 05:09:21 AM »
Episode 8,

SM and I are agreeing a lot lately.  The solution was just retarded but so creative.  It's the kind of thing only Geass can do.  Geass can remain incredibly contrived but you really don't give a shit.  That's probably it's greatest difference with the often compared Death Note.  Death Note took itself way too ****ing serious, believing that everything shown therein was infallable logic or believable stretches of the imagination.  Geass, though, because the entire situation is utterly fantastic to begin with, doesn't have to worry about that kind of egotistical high ground.  It just wants you to come along for the ride and see what happens next.

Inevitably, Suzaku and Lelouch are going to have to kiss and make up (DOUJINS!), but it wont be for a while yet.  In fact, I wonder how long it'll take before Zhuge Lelouch conquers China in his bid to overthrow Brittania.
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Offline C0MPL3X

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #29 on: May 26, 2008, 07:02:22 PM »
Well it's bit difficult to compare this situation with what Zhuge Liang did. First of all, they had a clear goal of 'uniting' the whole country, including Cao Cao's and eventually Sun Quan's under one banner of 'true and rightful' leader with royal blood. Now that Japanese are free to live as exiled in this new land, is there any reason for Japanese to invade further into Britannia? Although I guess Lelouch can pull some strings and wage war in LOLWEAPONOFMASSDESTRUCTION style hm. Secondly, Zhuge Liang invaded Xichuan because he needed something to fight Cao Cao with. I think we already have a nice (and grossly unfair) balance of power already between Britannia, China and a little island of Zero (and possibly plus Area 11 by invading it). Zero was able to launch an attack (and nearly win) with what little he had in season 1, so there's probably not that big of a problem using what he has now to properly engage with Brittania (which is not far-fetched at all considering the bullcrap they pulled off in episode 8).

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #30 on: May 27, 2008, 12:10:06 AM »
The thing about Brittania is that while it seems to be invincible with it's Knightmares against the other nations, they're not invincible at all.  They're having to denote a ton of resources into these other battle fronts, not to mention protecting their vast interests across the globe.  Then you have to deal with the E.U. and the Chinese Federation, maintaining the balance of power until you can do what you want to do in conquering them.

Meanwhile, this little piece of the empire is causing havoc, but what can you do quickly about it?  While they have some flying ships and such, it doesn't appear as though they can quickly mobilize the major forces necessary to crush the rebellion.  Logistics may not be spoken of in this show thus far, but you can tell that they're thinking of it when trying to make Brittania seem vulnerable against Zero and his attacks.
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Offline C0MPL3X

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #31 on: June 02, 2008, 07:48:59 PM »
Preview 1
Preview 2

Well well well maybe TIF was right about Zero taking over China. And what's this about the empress's political marriage? I mean, I don't think it's that bad to be married to someone like Schneizel, but if it's to this guy...yea then I can understand Li desperate to protect the poor little girl.

Offline Shadowmage

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #32 on: June 09, 2008, 07:04:06 AM »
Episode 9

Zero strikes again.  This is Kure-nai's break in Geass style.  Many of the events here were purely farcial, but I liked the sheer absurdity of the end.

I would also like to know the rules of Shogi since I presume they are using those rules to stage the chess matches.  As cool as a game of chicken with kings is, I found it retarded when they said "but if he moves his pawn, Schneizel's King will be taken out."  No, you can't move your king into a suicide position by the rules; however, you can be disqualified for making an illegal move.

Nina makes another appearance and goes on another psychotic rage.  Considering that all she's good for, I rather enjoyed this outspurt.  Sunrise seems to have a lot of fun with her facial expressions, and the hysteric voice was spot on.

SPOILER/SPECULATION WARNING (beyond episode 9)
lol

1) Note his hair color.
2) Remember that he is Chinese.
3) The Geass is also known as the "Power of the King"

I recommend Mobile Suit, RX-0 and Unicorn from the Unicorn OST.

Offline C0MPL3X

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #33 on: June 09, 2008, 11:28:15 PM »
I don't take battle strategies Zero pulls out of his ass seriously (mwahaha just as i planned my ass) and I have no reason to take a chess game seriously, which was just a nice little way to touch on the characters of Lelouch and Schneizer. Close game my foot Schneizer's pieces were much better. Speaking of character, I think Shneizer is fascinating simply because I have no idea whether he is actually good or evil (or maybe in that grayish area like Lelouch. Although I think Lelouch's has to be very VERY dark gray...). I've seen Shneizer sympathise with elevens, support Euphie on her endeavours, genuinely horrified by the following massacre...but I wonder if there is a deeper side to him that we aren't aware of yet. I haven't seen it yet, but I can just sense it...he's evil...

+1 for Kallen x Lelouch. Sunrise never fails to come up with unnecessarily revealing clothes and shoot the cameras at best angles. When Lelouch asked Kallen to come back to Ashford with him, was he trying to seduce her so he can manipulate her better? ...or *gasp* what about C.C!?! Q_Q

Anyway, I had to raise an eyebrow at the end. I mean, when the guy was trying to rescue the poor little empress, my initial thought was, 'yup, now China (led by the rebellions) is against Britannia, perfect excuse for Chinese-Japanese alliance'. Now this is just getting weird...will Zero really benefit more by pissing both parties?

Offline TypicalIdiotFan

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #34 on: June 09, 2008, 11:38:47 PM »
Quote from: C0MPL3X;13198
+1 for Kallen x Lelouch. Sunrise never fails to come up with unnecessarily revealing clothes and shoot the cameras at best angles. When Lelouch asked Kallen to come back to Ashford with him, was he trying to seduce her so he can manipulate her better? ...or *gasp* what about C.C!?! Q_Q

I think he was just going with the romantic notion of returning to Ashford with "everybody one more time" he mentioned two episodes ago.
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Offline C0MPL3X

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #35 on: June 09, 2008, 11:39:33 PM »
But that's boring.

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #36 on: June 10, 2008, 04:03:09 AM »
Ep 9

I thoroughly enjoyed that episode.  The tension with Nina, Milly and the other former student council members, the surprises at the wedding, the chess game.  High thrills at every moment.

Yes, the move Schneizer pulled was BS, but I think the point was a symbolic commentary on Lelouch's tactical philosophies.  Forced to sacrifice the king to win, he didn't.  At the moment, if he were forced to sacrifice himself to win, he wouldn't.  Yet, as Schneizer points out, the Emperor wouldn't think twice in that position.  I think it could be foreshadowing a decision Lelouch might have to make some time down the line.

Quote from: Shadowmage;13197
SPOILER/SPECULATION WARNING (beyond episode 9)
lol

1) Note his hair color.
2) Remember that he is Chinese.
3) The Geass is also known as the "Power of the King"
Spoiler for Hiden:
Oooh, now that's interesting.  How that would come into play now isn't obvious, but what you're hinting at certainly is consistent with what we've seen so far.

Offline C0MPL3X

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #37 on: June 10, 2008, 06:49:24 AM »
Quote from: Sorrow-kun;13201
Ep 9
Yes, the move Schneizer pulled was BS, but I think the point was a symbolic commentary on Lelouch's tactical philosophies. Forced to sacrifice the king to win, he didn't. At the moment, if he were forced to sacrifice himself to win, he wouldn't. Yet, as Schneizer points out, the Emperor wouldn't think twice in that position. I think it could be foreshadowing a decision Lelouch might have to make some time down the line.
I thought it was more of Lelouch 'not submitting' to the amusement of Schneizer. Was there any implication that Lelouch had to sacrifice his king to win that game? I mean, Lelouch could've taken out Schneizer with his pwn.

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #38 on: June 10, 2008, 06:59:25 AM »
Quote from: C0MPL3X;13204
I thought it was more of Lelouch 'not submitting' to the amusement of Schneizer. Was there any implication that Lelouch had to sacrifice his king to win that game? I mean, Lelouch could've taken out Schneizer with his pwn.

Ah, yes, you're right.  Re-watching that scene, I totally misinterpreted that.  Can't say I've ever played a game of chess where someone's moved into checkmate, which threw me to begin with.

Offline C0MPL3X

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #39 on: June 10, 2008, 07:46:32 AM »
Yea Schneizer's move was impossible to begin with but maybe there still is some foreshadowing going on here. Schneizer's basically saying, hey Zero, if you want to win this, here you go, but is that really how you want to win it? If Zero really took out Schneizer, then he would have won it, but what exactly would he win? Briefly ignoring Zero's previous plan to GEUXX everyone, he would win very little and become a laughing stock. He would rather turn it down, even if it meant putting himself in a worse position. Perhaps in the future, Zero will be given a chance to win something, but in a way that disgusts him, and also losing things at the same time, such as pride, respect from the population, etc. And of course, now that Schneizer knows this, there is a possibility of him using it against Lelouch.

But hey, whatever respect people had on Zero was thrown out the moment he betrayed Li and put a gun on the poor little girl's head.  Seriously...I don't know what he's thinking but I'm sure Sunrise has some explanation (no matter how ridiculous, but they're pros at coming up with even more ridiculous events, constantly shifting our focus).

Offline TypicalIdiotFan

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #40 on: June 10, 2008, 10:24:09 PM »
I equate the Zero / Schniezer scene to a comment from the movie White Men Cant Jump:
 
"You'd rather look good and lose then look bad and win."
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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #41 on: June 11, 2008, 12:13:43 AM »
I was sorta thinking about the chicken rib 鷄肋 story (for some reason I'm making all kinds of connection to RTK). You know, how Zhuge Liang was raping Cao Cao at Han Zhong, and Cao Cao looks at his chicken rib soup and is put under a dilemma. Chicken rib has little amount of meat so it's an irritation and a bother to trying eat it, but it's too delicious to just throw it away. If he kept on fighting against Zhuge Liang, he might win but at a huge cost (which he didn't anyway thanks to Liang's hax). And to retreat would mean a total humiliation, even if it was better strategy-wise. (I mean, ruler of the greatest kingdom is leading his elite army himself, and he still has to retreat? what a loser). Of course, Zero didn't think as long as Cao Cao about what he had to do.

Offline royal crown

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #42 on: June 11, 2008, 11:27:51 PM »
Episode 9: Seriously, I was confused as hell throughout the entirety of the episode. A lot of things were thrown together at a very fast pace, and though I got the gist of what was going on, it was very hard for me to keep everything together. I wonder if they're gonna put together some sort of cohesive explanation or elaboration of what just went on - then again, if could just be me not paying close enough attention given the comments in this thread. I do hope, however, that this series does not keep this kind of a blisteringly fast pace, because I think slowing down just a bit might help keep things a bit more suspenseful (I wasn't able to appreciate the strategic impact of the marriage of convenience because I was already jumping through scene after scene).

Also, I've been meaning to say this for some time now, but what the hell is with the eyecatch at the half-episode point (coming back from commercial break). What a horrible and cheesy effect, especially given the high production values of the series.

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #43 on: June 12, 2008, 02:52:34 AM »
The eyecatches for Geass have never been particularly amazing.  I'm not jazzed about the coming back from intro commercials to "sponsor logos" splashing over the first scene of the episode either.
 
But such is life.  Money to be made, etc.
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Offline C0MPL3X

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #44 on: June 16, 2008, 09:47:25 PM »
One big wank over which mechas are better. That just about sums up episode 10. And Geass's pandering to loli fans continues. I also like how Lelouch is coming in and out of battle zone and Ashford Academy at whim. Is Villeta and Rollo the only Brittanians who are supposedly watching over Zero now?

I don't know. Maybe I beginning to get sick of all the ridiculous events happening randomly.

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #45 on: June 17, 2008, 04:22:09 AM »
Lelouch already took care of the other watchers.  He Geass'd several of them to ignore him from now on.

And if the speculation is true, Ashford-Lelouch is Sayoko, though I don't know how the hell they're going to believably explain that shit.  It was necessary, though, for him to be in both places or he couldn't maintain the secrecy of him returning to being Zero.
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Offline C0MPL3X

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #46 on: June 17, 2008, 05:52:54 AM »
Quote from: TypicalIdiotFan;13234
Lelouch already took care of the other watchers.  He Geass'd several of them to ignore him from now on.

And if the speculation is true, Ashford-Lelouch is Sayoko, though I don't know how the hell they're going to believably explain that shit.  It was necessary, though, for him to be in both places or he couldn't maintain the secrecy of him returning to being Zero.
I wouldn't count on the explanation (did we get one for 1,000,000 Zero?). I guess it's just me getting tired of the same old cheap tricks to cover (in futile) all the mess they've made up. If someone told me a year ago that Lelouch was going to be captured, his memory erased, put under the surveillance of Britannia information department...except Lelouch will recover his memory and lead his army of Japan while pretending to be still at school blissfully ignorant, I would say that's not bad for a fan-fic writer. Now we have Rollo (who?) geass, blackmailing (wut?) Villeta and apparently a Kage Bunshin no jutsu.

Sure that all explains how Lelouch gets to still pretend to study in Ashford. I don't know, I didn't mind it much before, which probably just means I'm getting tired of it.

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #47 on: June 17, 2008, 06:50:33 AM »
Quote from: C0MPL3X;13231
I don't know. Maybe I beginning to get sick of all the ridiculous events happening randomly.

Yeah, it's not the first season was exactly like that or anything.

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #48 on: June 17, 2008, 02:37:48 PM »
Quote from: ...un septièmes;13236
Yeah, it's not the first season was exactly like that or anything.

He's got a point.  This type of contrived shit has been going on for quite some time.  I think it's more tolerable in Geass because the show just isn't meant to be taken seriously.  It's a fascinating story, but pure "Hollywood" bologna.
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Offline C0MPL3X

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #49 on: June 17, 2008, 06:17:39 PM »
Maybe the fact that it has been going on ever since 35 episodes ago is why I'm getting sick of it. Or maybe it's not proving as exciting as it used to be because well, excitement is the only reason we can forget and forgive . Although I have to agree with A-R@D from AA that writing in season one was better than this.

And I was never fan of these "what! his weapon can even overcome my super power shield?!? But I've alr-" already upgraded from your previous upgrade, which was able to beat your previous upgrade and I'm sure something along the way will beat your upgrade soon enough.

Offline Shadowmage

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #50 on: June 22, 2008, 02:25:40 PM »
Episode 11

Wait, what?  

I'm willing to forgive the new robot hacks because it's happened so many times that I've grown do accumstomed to it.  Much of Zero's strategies were the standard stuff, and the ending to the fight was predictable.  The only intersting bit I got from the entire battle was the fact that Schneizel pulled out while commenting on what the Emperor might have done (hinting that Schneizel might have something in common with Lelouch).

The whole cult thing raised my eyebrow for half a second, but I then I remember that the Geass was the magic pixie dust of this world.  Whoever has the most pixie dust wins.  Makes sense.

Then, stuff got really weird.  First, the kiss scene.  I know Sunrise typically resolves crisis in with an overblown reaction not unlike killing a cockroach with a nuke, but seriously, what the hell was that?  There are many ways to open Shirley's tragic past, but why do it with what was essentially a forced yuri sequence (I know there were convenient momments before but call this the straw that broke the camel's back).

Not to be overdone by some old plot wank, Gino and Anya (likely Lulu's sis) decide to join Ashford for another session of high school dramaz.  I thought we left the whole high school life thing behind with the China arc, but for some inexplicable reason Lelouch is back just to run into the Knight of Rounds.  Seriously, is this the best that they can come up with? ... Looking at the China arc, I'm willing bet good money it is.

I recommend Mobile Suit, RX-0 and Unicorn from the Unicorn OST.

Offline C0MPL3X

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #51 on: June 22, 2008, 07:41:56 PM »
Random comments

*Only in GayAss do enemies keep trying to kill each other at night and go to same school together at day.

*God damn it as if there wasn't enough plot lines already, what the hell are they doing with Anya now? I guess they just had to pander to Anya loli fanboys.

*Xingke/Tianzi - speaking of lolicons...

*Anyway, glad that one of my questions have been answered in this episode. I seriously couldn't figure out why Zero had to kidnap Tianzi and piss everyone off including Xing Ke (instead of forming an alliance). To record what Eunuchs (lulz o crap I said my inner thoughts about China too loudly again. Reminder to self, when the voice is not echoing, I am actually talking) IT WAS JUST AS PLANNED.

*Obligatory Kallen fanservice. Everytime we see Kallen now will be in some very interesting submissive poses. I look forward to how they'll be dressing her up in next episode. And since Kallen is not enough, C.C's thongs and her gigantic ass (we all know where all the calories go into).

*In season one, Shirley's arc related to Mao was powerful in that she was the first precious person Lelouch lost in his steps toward total carnage. Then Sunrise decided to play "will she find out or not" game throughout the series for more dorama (and of course, they couldn't obviously admit to using her as another fanservice material so they had to give her some role) and when she finally found out...she lost her memories again in R2. Well...I guess at least they didn't play any game with us this time.

Offline royal crown

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #52 on: June 23, 2008, 12:36:09 AM »
Yeah, by this point the series is out of control. I honestly wonder if there's going to be any resolution ever in this anime, considering how much stuff they have to tie up in a mere (!) 52 episodes. Hell, even after a season 3 I still don't know if this anime can be ended satisfactorily. As it stands, there's a whole lot of BS to cover up a whole lot of inconsistencies... for me the series probably hit a low here. Who knows though - it could keep sinking.

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #53 on: June 24, 2008, 01:52:59 AM »
Sometimes this show is just complete BS.  It's good that it doesn't take itself seriously or it'd be completely intolerable at times.  But because it doesn't, it's just so much fun.

The Anya thing was interesting, and gives us an excuse to explore her past, although SM has already probably picked her big secret™.  It's either that, or she's somehow related to a Geass user.  Shirley inspiring Zero's solution to the Tenshi marriage problem was completely stupid, and I couldn't take it seriously for a second (not a huge flaw, since as has been mentioned several times, this show doesn't take itself all that seriously).  Then there was more technology one-upmanship.  But I was impressed with the way Zero inspired the Chinese revolt.

Gino and Anya at Ashford is a familiar plot point.  It was incredibly contrived, and a repeat of a formula we've seen several times already, but I think we're all used to this now.  "Contrived" and "Code Geass" go hand in hand, but it excuses itself by not taking itself seriously (yes, yes, unlike Death Note... I'm going to try to avoid that comparison from now on, since it's already been pointed out enough).  I'm not going to complain about it too much, I think the best attitude with Geass is just to let them see where they take you and enjoy the ride.  Much mirth will almost certainly come of this.

Quote from: C0MPL3X;13257
*God damn it as if there wasn't enough plot lines already, what the hell are they doing with Anya now? I guess they just had to pander to Anya loli fanboys.

While we're talking about lolis (which Code Geass has plenty, which in all honesty only just occurred to me after you pointed it out), Sumeragi >>>> all others.  Seriously.  Usually I don't find the token loli characters all that appealing, but Sumeragi is awesome.  She's seriously moe.

Offline C0MPL3X

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #54 on: June 24, 2008, 03:14:30 AM »
oooooookay moving on from moelicious lolis, (Satoko is my least favourite character from Higurashi btw)

The level of ridiculous reaching new lows is one thing, the events in R2 hasn't been as exciting for me compared to season one. They don't excite me the way season one used to, but perhaps I'm being biased because of the whole Cornelia vs Lelouch that's been missing this season (and no interesting on-going plot as a replacement). I'm finding myself laughing at most of the twists and events than getting excited over them.

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #55 on: June 24, 2008, 03:56:20 AM »
Yeah, I kind of agree with that, but I'm not going to deny I still enjoy this.  Code Geass was new and innovative, even if it was ridiculous at times, but this suffers from repeating too much from its predecessor so the luster is gone.  You never quite knew what to expect from the first season, and almost every plot turn was a surprise.  Things are still surprising in this, but the surprise is quickly followed by a sense of deja vu.

I don't know what Satoko has to do with Sumeragi.  They're completely different characters, other than the voice.

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #56 on: June 24, 2008, 07:23:12 AM »
Ah well, you know, moe is a superficial thing...can come from something stupid like Nipaaa~ and turn offs can from type of voice you hear (or more like who you are reminded of).

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #57 on: June 24, 2008, 02:47:19 PM »
11:

I have nothing to add, honestly.  While Anya has shown a weird interest in Lelouch, I'm not sure it means she's a member of the family.

Then again, considering how huge the damn royal family is, what would it matter at this point?  Lelouch has a shit ton of brothers and sisters and is close to quite a few who weren't even born from the same mother.  What would be the point of a "long lost" sister at this juncture?

As Sorrow has said, raging over what Geass has done in this week's episode is pretty pointless.  Be that as it may, I only had one real beef with this episode:  I wanted Xing-ke to take his time brutally murdering the Eunichs.  The guy looked like he could have just enjoyed torturing them while slaughtering them.  Instead, he's amost merciful in his killing of them.
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Offline Shadowmage

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #58 on: June 29, 2008, 08:27:52 PM »
Episode 12

I really liked this episode.  The comedy was pretty run of the mill, but a lot of stuff started moving.   Orange is back with an interesting new weapon; Shirley has become important again; and most importantly, Cornelia is back doing something that should have been obvious.

I recommend Mobile Suit, RX-0 and Unicorn from the Unicorn OST.

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #59 on: June 30, 2008, 02:51:34 AM »
O.M.G.  Floored by that ending.

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #60 on: June 30, 2008, 06:28:19 AM »
Ep 12:

ABOUT TIME. This is a very interesting move because now all of the convenient excuses that the Geas has made for Lelouch is gone, and he has to take some accountability for his actions. Granted, we don't know who is going to be affected, but at the very least Shirley will be. Granted, they could ruin this by making Shirley the ONLY ONE who will be affected by thiis anti-Geas man, but here's to hoping they don't. If all of Ashford gets reverted and regains all of their memories from when Lelouch brainwashed them, he's gonna be in a hell of hurt. The other potential problem is that it'll open up the latter half of the season to using the Geas on everyone all over again, basically getting another chance to take over. For some reason, I think neither will happen.

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #61 on: June 30, 2008, 08:05:24 AM »
Quote
ABOUT TIME. This is a very interesting move because now all of the convenient excuses that the Geas has made for Lelouch is gone, and he has to take some accountability for his actions.

It's amusing that they're getting rid of the convenient excuses through one of the most ridiculously convenient plot device, even for GayAss's lofty standard (that's saying something).

Some more random ramblings,

- Cornelia! ^___^  and she looks better than ever! I wonder if she will possibly side with Lelouch now. Lelouch - Xing Ke - Cornelia, that's quite a force to be reckoned with.

- "We need a new character. A character with such a ridicously convenient power like freezing time so we can use it to create whatever plot we want. Yes, we have no idea where the story is going in future, that's why we need this tool- er i mean "character" to help our pea-brained writer. O and make him gay, fans from previous season have been endlessly complaining about lack of Yaoi doujinshii material." (lulz coming inside the closet)

And that's how Rollo came to conception folks *yes I'm bit slow.

- Well well well Shneizer, someone's being reading too much of Sun Tzu's Art of War. Or Zac's Big Book of War. Whatever, I'm still not buying into his peaceful approach. He knows China won't surrender so easily so at the end, he'll say something pathetic like "o I didn't want to fight...but if I have to, in order to stop Zero, to stop the terrorists, to find the WMD in China that's threatening our country, I will personally take over China!". That sly son of a bitch.

- About the ending...no comment. Copy/paste Sorrow's reaction.

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #62 on: June 30, 2008, 02:42:03 PM »
12:

Been avoiding commenting on this for two reasons:

1).  I really like Shirley and I was incredibly dismayed by the 'reset' she got on her memories.  This reset of the reset is so stupidly timed...

2).  The episode was 90% fluff, so why bitch about it?

Having Shirley be the "wild card" again is fine, but there's still way too many questions that bother me about it.  She, along with the other Ashford Academy folks, had to have been modified with the Emperor's Geass.  What we don't know is whether the Emperor can read your memories before modifying / deleting them.

The point is, how would he know at what point to reset her memories or to modify which ones?  Did he somehow know about Shirley's involvement with Lelouch and Mao?

Also, with the Anti-Geass thing, they had to know that it would **** up the Emperor's memory modifying too, right?  In that case, wouldn't everybody now know that the Emperor has that power?

Wild Card, sure, but somehow this seems like the stupidest time to use the Geass Canceler thingy.
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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #63 on: June 30, 2008, 06:11:39 PM »
A bit like the time when Lelouch's Geass went bats?

Hey, it might be contrived, but it produces tension and drama.

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #64 on: June 30, 2008, 08:59:50 PM »
I think Lelouch's Geass going wacko was worse.  This particular contrivance makes a character relevant again for something other then fanservice.  I'd been waiting for her to do something before S1 ended.  Her mindset seemed to be the perfect mix of confusion but still certainty, as if she was still capable of fighting off what Lelouch did to her.

Shirley basically can go several directions:

*  Be anti-Lelouch.  It's hard to believe.  If she has all her memories back, she knows that Zero and the Black Knights were responsible for her father's death, but she also knows that when it came down to it, she couldn't hate "Lulu" for it, even going so far as to shoot another human being to protect him and willing to shoot another for the same reason.  Now, she will also know that Lulu tried to wipe her mind of everything involving him, but whether she'll hate him for this is unknown.  She could see it as he protecting her or she could see it as he forcing her to do what he wanted despite her protests.  She would also know, then, that after the mind wipe that finding out about Lelouch being Zero made her still question how dangerous he was.  In short, it doesn't make MUCH sense for her to be anti-Lelouch, but I think she, like Kallen, will want some ****ing answers.

*  Be anti-Suzaku.  I don't think she has a direct problem with Suzaku other then the fact that Suzaku took her before the Emperor to be manipulated by his Geass.  I think she would question Suzaku's methods of betraying his dearest friend and school mates for his own ambitions.  It'd be hypocritical if she didn't think the same way about Lelouch, but hypocrisy is perfectly legal in Code Geass.

*  Be anti-Emperor Charles.  I don't think she'd be anti-Brittania, but after the Emperor basically mind raped her, I don't think she'll like the ruler of her nation anymore.  

*  Go paranoid and emo.  Certainly, even if she doesn't become an extremist one way or the other, she's going to feel extremely trapped in a situation where everybody around her is untrustworthy.  Lelouch, Suzaku, the Black Knights, the Knights of Rounds, Rolo, Villetta, The Emperor... everybody around her is false in some way.  I think if she realizes this, she'll take the least of the evils and stick to Lelouch, but it's a possibility.

*  Have her own agenda?  Right now, she's the only person in the school not named Lelouch, Suzaku, or Rolo who knows that Lelouch is the brother of the Governess of Area 11 and that he is Zero, the leader of the Black Knights.  I'm not sure how she could use this to her advantage, but if she starts getting manipulative, she could use that to accomplish whatever her agenda would be.

Like I said, I love the idea of Shirley as a wild card, but I do not know what direction they'll take with her.  There are other ways she could be used (damsel in distress) that I'm sure I haven't thought of, but there is also the possibility that with the Geass Canceller in effect, she can be Geass'd again.
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Offline C0MPL3X

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #65 on: June 30, 2008, 11:51:55 PM »
Quote
Having Shirley be the "wild card" again is fine, but there's still way too many questions that bother me about it. She, along with the other Ashford Academy folks, had to have been modified with the Emperor's Geass. What we don't know is whether the Emperor can read your memories before modifying / deleting them.

The point is, how would he know at what point to reset her memories or to modify which ones? Did he somehow know about Shirley's involvement with Lelouch and Mao?

Also, with the Anti-Geass thing, they had to know that it would **** up the Emperor's memory modifying too, right? In that case, wouldn't everybody now know that the Emperor has that power?
This is probably my biggest problem with that ending. I mean ok, we've seen things running contrived forever now but this crap got way more complicated than Euphemia situation.

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #66 on: July 04, 2008, 08:43:18 PM »
One thing that's been bugging me since I saw this episode:



Who is this girl, and why is she not in Lelouch's harem?

What a waste of a Geass.

Offline C0MPL3X

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #67 on: July 04, 2008, 10:33:30 PM »
Well I thought she was just another random girl for gimmicky purpose. Until someone pointed out that she was important enough to feature in R2 official website. No idea what they're going to do with her. Maybe she'll see Lelouch doing something naughty in future episodes. Then he'd be really ****ed because he can't geass her anymore.

Offline royal crown

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #68 on: July 06, 2008, 07:27:59 PM »
13

WHAT THE ****

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #69 on: July 06, 2008, 09:31:56 PM »
Episode 13

Woah, that was intense.  I admit, this episodes tried to do too much and a lot of things felt forced because of it, but screw that, the final minutes was an edge-of-your-seat thriller.  The animation was fluid like water, the voice acting was impeccable, and this throws the plot into a very interesting direction.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2008, 09:51:12 PM by Shadowmage »

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #70 on: July 07, 2008, 03:54:10 AM »
13:

Oh wow.  I don't know what to say to this.  Gonna just let this dramatic turn of events wash over me for I am too numb to think.
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Offline C0MPL3X

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #71 on: July 07, 2008, 04:07:23 AM »
- Did I just miss something from season one or did Orange pull that bodyguard loyal to Marianne bullshit from his ass? And lulz the manly tears for epic dorama

- Rollo lives upto his title of "the biggest tool made in anime". I keep failing to take this particular deranged homosexual seriously as a character.

- Zomg Shirley scene had similar vibe to Zomg Euphie scene. I was rather amused in Euphie's case and that's pretty much how I felt here. Probably because of that damn homo rollo.

- OP and ED both suck. Well, at least CLAMP art is good.

- As for OP speculation, I guess Kallen does switch side at some point. I don't know for what reason though. Is she really the kind of person who would join enemy because the person she loved and trusted has betrayed her? I think she'll ultimately switch side back to Order though.

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #72 on: July 07, 2008, 04:32:21 AM »
Quote from: C0MPL3X;13367
- Did I just miss something from season one or did Orange pull that bodyguard loyal to Marianne bullshit from his ass? And lulz the manly tears for epic dorama

Apparently the Lamperouge family and Jeremiah has some wings, but you would have had to been paying attention to the information pages on the website and the short segments inbetween certain episodes.

Quote
- Rollo lives upto his title of "the biggest tool made in anime". I keep failing to take this particular deranged homosexual seriously as a character.

This might have been Rollo's finest moment, actually.  Before this he was just a mindless assassin then a Lelouch worshipping plot device.  This is probably his first time actually doing something on his own, even if the action was something that I (and undoubtedly Lelouch when he finds out) found reprehensible.

Quote
- Zomg Shirley scene had similar vibe to Zomg Euphie scene. I was rather amused in Euphie's case and that's pretty much how I felt here. Probably because of that damn homo rollo.

Euphie's scene was incredibly sad.  They brilliantly portrayed her dying words to Suzaku inbetween flashes of the angry Eleven crowds cursing her name.  She never knew what it is she did and never knew what the people thought of her.  Suzaku even lied to protect her innocence.

Shirley has been one of my favorite characters since the first season, and this particular piece of tragedy has been built up since day one.  I am not happy that this is how they resolved her regaining her memories and becoming the wild card again, but I understand it.

Quote
- OP and ED both suck. Well, at least CLAMP art is good.

Yeah.

Quote
- As for OP speculation, I guess Kallen does switch side at some point. I don't know for what reason though. Is she really the kind of person who would join enemy because the person she loved and trusted has betrayed her? I think she'll ultimately switch side back to Order though.

lol "OP".  Lazy copy / pasta from a 4chan post?
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Offline C0MPL3X

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #73 on: July 07, 2008, 06:12:08 AM »
...OP as in OPening sequence. Copy/pasta from AA, people there have been having fun making speculations purely based on OP.

Quote
Apparently the Lamperouge family and Jeremiah has some wings, but you would have had to been paying attention to the information pages on the website and the short segments inbetween certain episodes.
Well, if there were actual hints from the show (and not the website), then I guess I can swallow that. At least it shows me that it wasn't last minute LOL DRAMA event.

Quote
This might have been Rollo's finest moment, actually. Before this he was just a mindless assassin then a Lelouch worshipping plot device. This is probably his first time actually doing something on his own, even if the action was something that I (and undoubtedly Lelouch when he finds out) found reprehensible.
...I thought he was being a mindless assassin when he killed Shirley just because she knew about him. Geassing and killing the innocent team member because he overheard the situation (which he didn't, because villeta says he's working on the same case), it's the exactly same scenario.

I think from the start they TRIED to introduce him as a character. We knew nothing about him, then we saw some of his flashback (an attempt to make his murderous nature more understandable) and then he chose to ally with Lelouch in a hope that (and this is just my conjecture) he can finally have a meaningful relationship with someone (brother love, homo love whatever). Of course, Lelouch loathes Rollo for replacing his dear Nunually. But one or two episodes after that, we got nothing of Rollo or Lelouch's feelings for Rollo. The whole issue with Rollo has been cast aside and we didn't give two shits about it because there were too many other shits being stirred by Sunrise every episode. I mean, we still saw Rollo and Lelouch interacting all the time but where's the emotion Lulu? Don't you hate Rollo anymore or is his homo-shouta-ke beginning to rock your boat? Because if he is, just say so, Lelouch has been treating Rollo like a typical Order member, and we aren't shown how he still feels about Rollo, how he replaced Nunually and all that crap. Same goes for Rollo, from what I gather he has hots (in brotherly way!) for Lelouch and we see him jealous and thoughtful here and there but that's it.

And then he pulls this stunt. I don't know, maybe the last episode of his homo character was still in effect, or I didn't see enough of his actual development as a character (o brother where art thou doesn't count). My eyes sees in front of me only a tool to bring this drama, and not a character we should feel anything for (or a subject of interesting character analysis).

There's just too many tools in Code Geass (Ninja Maid becoming a strong contender to beat Rollo) as a plot device and not as a character.

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #74 on: July 07, 2008, 06:33:42 AM »
Oh I agree.  I hate Rolo's character and involvement in this show more then any other.  He has served absolutely NO purpose to the show whatsoever even though he was the big ZOMG MYSTERY WHODA****ISTHAT? from the initial season 2 artwork.

Basically the hype has been misguided.  Unless Rolo goes batshit and turns against Lelouch again, he's going to be as pointless a characater as Misa from Death Note (sorry, the comps still work).
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Offline royal crown

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #75 on: July 07, 2008, 09:15:38 AM »
compl3x: Where in the OP do you see Kallen's betrayal? I can't seem to find it (other than when Suzaku or some other knights of round comes out from under her Gurren, but I dunno about that being enough)

As for Shirley's death, I thought it was garbage. Why even introduce her to the anti-Geass if she can't do anything before simply dying? The anti-Geas ability is now in the hands of Lelouch after 3 minutes of tension, and all hopes of there being some sort of conflict are resolved ridiculously easily. I was hoping that the anti-Geas would be an element to at least cause some havoc and long-lasting impact, but nope. It's over in an instant. If I could grade this episode, I'd give it an F.

Offline C0MPL3X

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #76 on: July 07, 2008, 01:37:06 PM »
This is bit of a stretch, but I think that OP speculation comes from two things. One is that we see picture of Kallen with other Brittanian members in the very beginning. Two is that we see Gurren equipped with the same wing-like floating mechanism that Lancelot is equipped with, which suggests that loyd has given them both the technical boost (and I can't imagine anyone other than Kallen piloting Gurren). Or at least I think that's where people from AA have been basing this speculation.

Anyway, I'm not a big fan of this speculation myself cause I can't think of one good reason (as in, a reason I approve of) for Kallen to switch side that easily. And we get to see Kallen with other Orber members near the end of OP so even if she does switch side at some point, I think she'll eventually come back. Maybe it'll all just be another damn plot device to bring Lloyd's upgraded version of Gurren for Rakshata to rip off

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #77 on: July 07, 2008, 04:16:54 PM »
clearly the emperor is going to change her memories... and they give her upgraded guren... and orange kun anti geass'... and rakshata comits copyright infringement lol


unless they actually have any other way to go with this story... u never kno we could get another emo lulu episode

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #78 on: July 07, 2008, 04:35:01 PM »
I just looked at the OP again, and while it shows Gino, then Kallen, then Anya, then Nina, that doesn't mean a damn thing.  It shows Kallen looking rather sad, actually, which could just be that because at the time of the OP's addition, she was incarcerated by the Brittanians.

Nina isn't even in the Knight of Rounds, so her inclusion is just as inexplicable as Kallen's.

Later, it shows Gurren with the same wing configuration, but a different color, more to Rakshata's liking I'm sure.  I'm guessing they both just have the same technology.  Doesn't mean anything.

if anything, the shots where it's showing the Lancelot with the Gurren is probably a typical Sunrise maneuver where they show the two "best mechs" in a "competitive form".  Since Kallen has been fighting Suzaku without either getting an advantage over the other since the first season, I'm guessing it's just a continuation of that.

The OP doesn't show anything to me... except one thing, that I can't believe I didn't notice:

Shirley's not in it.  It shows Milly, Rivalz, and others from the school, but not Shirley... should have caught that... maybe then I would have been ready for this episode's conclusion...
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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #79 on: July 07, 2008, 04:52:34 PM »
Quote
Later, it shows Gurren with the same wing configuration, but a different color, more to Rakshata's liking I'm sure. I'm guessing they both just have the same technology. Doesn't mean anything.
But don't you think they have different colour because the colour of their mechas are different? You know, it'd be kind of gay if Lloyd wanted to dress Gurren with white wings because it's more to his liking.

Anyway, I always thought there was that wing motif running through some of the Britannians (especially Euphie).

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #80 on: July 07, 2008, 04:56:12 PM »
These were my original speculations back at AA.

Quote
Speculations
-Kallen switches sides.
-Considering that no new characters are introduced (especially on the royal family side of things), the "killer" is probably within the OP. I'm pinning it on Schneizel considering how prominently he's been displayed.
-Gino and Anya join the OoBK. Of course, this can just be Sunrise being lazy and featuring all the mechs in one, incoherent go.


I admit, I may just be staring into the crystal ball and predicting the future from a distorted reflection of my head, but it's a trend that Sunrise seems to have (The second Gundam 00 OP outright deceived me though).

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #81 on: July 07, 2008, 06:57:48 PM »
Another theory worth looking at is Gino and Anya joining the Black Knights after finding out about the secret organisation like Cornelia did. So it could lead to the Evil Organisation (Schneizel as the mastermind) vs Japan + China +defacted Britannian forces.

Needless to say I don't like the sound of where that is heading but I'll just see what they'll come up with in future episodes...

There also seems to be a strong implication that Marianne is actually alive, and the person C.C has been secretly communicating with all this time is none but Marianne herself. Very confusing.

Offline C0MPL3X

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #82 on: July 13, 2008, 05:38:34 PM »
Best.Episode.

Some random thoughts as usual.

- I wonder what Rollo expected Zero to do when he clung to Siegfried. Oh surely my brother wouldn't have planted a bomb to detonate, there must be some other tactics under his sleeve too complicated for my poor little brain to understand. Man I hate Rollo, my disappointment of seeing him survive is even great than that of Lelouch's. Anyway, we find out where the time limit for Rollo's geass comes from.

- Orange needs a better nightmare than Southerlands. They're outdated junks now.
 
- I used to believe Schneizer was the one behind Marianne's assassination. Maybe he still is. But I think this episode shows that V.V was at least involved in the plot.

- V.V is more badass than I have imagined.

- Perfect opportunity to bridge the gap between Lelouch and Cornelia.

- I'm not too happy with where they're going with Kallen and Suzaku (or the damn pointless Villeta x Ohgi side plot that's been around forever) at this point but I'll let it slide.

*and V.V's comment on sibling's relationship to be the most beautiful thing in the world to be interesting. Lot of important relationships in Geass are between siblings. Lelouch-Nunually, Cornelia-Euphy, Kallen-whoever her brother is, V.V - Charles, Lelouch-Rollo (a bit one-sided). Definitely stronger emphasis on fraternal feelings than romance between lovers.

Offline royal crown

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #83 on: July 13, 2008, 08:11:24 PM »
Hm, I thought this episode was a mess - although I think it hinges on the next episode on whether or not this episode makes any sense. I guess my main problem with R2 all along is that it mentions a lot of characters that have either transient roles or who aren't really distinct personalities by themselves (that or they disappear for 10 episodes and I forget who they are). Honestly, what do we even know of VV right now? Maybe I missed something, but he's still quite an enigma (how is he related to the royal family?), and seeing that they're already done with half of season 2, I don't know how they're going to satisfactorily resolve all of this.

Also, I think it's interesting that both Suzaku and Lelouch (each being distinct philosophies towards politics and Japanese freedom) are deteriorating in their ethics, Lelouch with the annhilation of the Geas order and Suzaku with Refrain, and (at least in Lelouch's side) I think they're both going to deteriorate from there. Then again, I've said that before and still haven't seen anything in terms of progression.

I'll hold off on other comments until I watch the next episode, but this really feels like a disappointment to me.

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #84 on: July 13, 2008, 08:34:55 PM »
I think V.V is supposed to be enigma, just like Charles, Schneizer, C.C and Marianne. And there's always 3rd season, considering the money they're going to make.

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #85 on: July 15, 2008, 08:06:15 AM »
Quote from: royal crown;13409
Also, I think it's interesting that both Suzaku and Lelouch (each being distinct philosophies towards politics and Japanese freedom) are deteriorating in their ethics, Lelouch with the annhilation of the Geas order and Suzaku with Refrain, and (at least in Lelouch's side) I think they're both going to deteriorate from there. Then again, I've said that before and still haven't seen anything in terms of progression.

Yeah, but Lelouch's decision to destroy the Geass order was completely the right one.  Sure, he made it off the back of an emotional response to Shirley's death, but it allowed him to put his morals to one side and make what was, tactically, a very smart decision.

I found this episode rather surreal, and that was even before the cliffhanger.  It just seemed to bounce around from one scene to the next with not a great deal of cohesion.  Good episode, though.  Like I said, I thought Lelouch's all out take-no-prisoners attack on the Geass order was a really good move.  His only shortcoming there (ignoring the WTF at the end) was missing a brilliant opportunity to get rid of Rollo.

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #86 on: July 18, 2008, 03:56:35 PM »
After taking in all of Code Geass so far over the course of 8 days (two devoted to the first season), I don't quite know where to even start or what to comment. Everything has all ready been said at least twice that all I can say is that I want Rolo dead.

BTW SM, what was so deceiving about 00's op?

Offline Shadowmage

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #87 on: July 18, 2008, 07:09:56 PM »
BTW SM, what was so deceiving about 00's op?
Oh, just the fact that the space showdown between Celestial Being and the Trinities didn't happen.  I mean bad things happened to our psychotic sibling-cons when I least expected it, involving people I didn't expect.   
« Last Edit: July 18, 2008, 07:27:35 PM by Shadowmage »

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Offline royal crown

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #88 on: July 18, 2008, 08:04:22 PM »
Quote from: royal crown;13409
Also, I think it's interesting that both Suzaku and Lelouch (each being distinct philosophies towards politics and Japanese freedom) are deteriorating in their ethics, Lelouch with the annhilation of the Geas order and Suzaku with Refrain, and (at least in Lelouch's side) I think they're both going to deteriorate from there. Then again, I've said that before and still haven't seen anything in terms of progression.
Yeah, but Lelouch's decision to destroy the Geass order was completely the right one.  Sure, he made it off the back of an emotional response to Shirley's death, but it allowed him to put his morals to one side and make what was, tactically, a very smart decision.

I found this episode rather surreal, and that was even before the cliffhanger.  It just seemed to bounce around from one scene to the next with not a great deal of cohesion.  Good episode, though.  Like I said, I thought Lelouch's all out take-no-prisoners attack on the Geass order was a really good move.  His only shortcoming there (ignoring the WTF at the end) was missing a brilliant opportunity to get rid of Rollo.

I wonder if it really was the best decision he could've made. I think tactically, while it may pay its dividends in the short run, his degradation of morality is going to undermine his credibility among the Knights. In the beginning of the series, he was very firm in his moral ideologies, and his refusal to become terrorists and instead promote justice. However, with this move (and I think it's explicitly shown in the episode itself), he's undermining the confidence that the Knights have in him. No longer is he the hero that everyone trusted, but instead someone who's willing to basically slaughter unarmed innocents in the name of the greater good. I don't know if my speculation will actually substantiate, however I think it wouldn't be unreasonable to think that in the future (especially if he continues to make these kinds of decisions) he could lose the cohesion of the people behind him.

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #89 on: July 20, 2008, 04:18:44 PM »
Episode 15 (Finally, I saw an episode when it aired)

Wow, all I can say is that was a little trippy. The whole explanation of the Geass seemed a little like something out of Highlander or the Sith Lords from Star Wars, but overall made sense. This has certainly been the most tense and suspensful episode of R2 yet, or at least in the top 3. There is just one thing I'm trying to figure out.

(Since I don't know how to insert spoiler tags with this Forum, just highlight the area below this message surrounded by *s.

*
How did CC lose her immortality without from the looks of it, giving it to Lelouch and dying herself? Did it have to due with her wish being grantted or something along those lines?
*

Offline Shadowmage

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #90 on: July 20, 2008, 07:21:49 PM »
Episode 15

I remember all the speculation of the evolution of the geass back when R1 was airing, and it seems that many of them were right.  CC's wish was nailed down. (both of them).  The whole one eye -> two eye -> Immortality route was correct.  And the specifics of the immortality transfer was also correct... except I expected it to be fatal.

This is actually the most convincing use of amneisia I've seen in the middle of an anime.  Okay, technically speaking, it's not amnesia, but it'll drive the plot as if it were one (except with a few hundred year lag in culture).  Since CC was the only person Lelouch truly wanted to share his future with (in my eyes), I find this a very interesting turn of events, especially because this happened at episode 15, not 25.     


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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #91 on: July 21, 2008, 03:12:48 AM »
I'm not even going to attempt to say something intelligent about that episode.  All I can say is, bricks were shat.

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #92 on: July 21, 2008, 06:15:22 PM »
Bring back my C.C

Q___Q

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #93 on: July 27, 2008, 02:44:30 PM »
Episode 16

This is a very, very interesting direction for the plot to take.  I love how this show tackles difficult issues head on so quickly in the game.

I recommend Mobile Suit, RX-0 and Unicorn from the Unicorn OST.

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #94 on: August 04, 2008, 05:10:22 AM »
Ep 17

Epic episode is epic!

The way Lelouch got out of that was a stroke of genius, and the confrontation between Lelouch and Suzaku and the character growth (regression) in both characters well done, real intense.

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #95 on: August 04, 2008, 12:10:52 PM »
I really have to admit, despite being a mecha enthusiast, for some reason I really find the Knightmare Frames to be the least interesting part of the series, so it always feels a little disappointing for me when mecha battles happen.

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #96 on: August 04, 2008, 02:31:03 PM »
I really have to admit, despite being a mecha enthusiast, for some reason I really find the Knightmare Frames to be the least interesting part of the series, so it always feels a little disappointing for me when mecha battles happen.
The funny thing is that I don't really consider Code Geass a Mech anime, so I'm not too disappointed when they fail to deliver. 


Episode 17 was another buildup episode, but the exchange between Lelouch and Suzaku was quite impressive.  The dialogue was good, but I liked the visual effect of Suzaku stepping on Lelouch.  That moment drew me into the conversation like nothing else.   

I recommend Mobile Suit, RX-0 and Unicorn from the Unicorn OST.

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #97 on: August 10, 2008, 12:19:16 PM »
Episode 18

Well, I honestly never expected Lelouch's "live" command to backfire so badly.  It's technically Lelouch's fault, but I don't think Suzaku will see it that way. 

I recommend Mobile Suit, RX-0 and Unicorn from the Unicorn OST.

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #98 on: August 10, 2008, 05:53:54 PM »
I know I'll have to at some time, but for know I almost refuse to accept what just happened on the episode. I just can't.

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #99 on: August 11, 2008, 02:47:21 AM »
You know, I watch episode after episode of this show and most of the time all I can come up with to respond to it are dumbfounded exclamations.  Like this one: OH MY ****ING GOD!

Spoiler for Hiden:
I was actually just wondering what Lelouch would do if Nunally ever died.  For a fair while now Lelouch's crusade has been less about protecting his sister and finding out who murdered his mother (something which has become barely an afterthought for Lelouch) and more about revenge against his father.  I think if this happened earlier on, it would have destroyed him.  Now, I'm not so sure.  There's a chance that he's degenerated enough that he'll get past this and still be able manage the Black Knights.  It's not so much love for his sister that drives him now as it is hatred for his father.  And Suzaku, who he'll inevitably (and ironically) blame.

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #100 on: August 11, 2008, 09:50:14 PM »
That's strange, S_K, right now the only thing I have is a big fat "what the ****..." and not in a good way.

What kind of bullshit is that...?  I'm with Kavix on this one, I don't believe what happened is what happened.

For some reason I can't post spoiler tags.  You have been mother****ing warned

Though this cast is ****ing huge, they haven't exactly gone on a bloody rampage for the sake of body count.  Now, all of a sudden, in one episode we have not one, not two, not three, not even four, but FIVE important characters buy the farm (Kinoshita AND Asahina, Gilford, Sayoko, and Nunnally) ?  Worse, it's not the people who died as a result of the FLEIA explosion, it's the people who LIVED.

Nina had been screaming since the beginning of the episode to have the thing used, even going so far as to almost steal the Lancelot herself to use it.  This carefully laid sequence of events allowed Kallen to get out, Gino to get out, Anya to get out, and even ****ing ROLO to get out before the darned thing was used.  That last one is the most boggling of all.

Rolo got out?  Didn't he make it his mission to kill Nunnally?  When was he expecting to do it?  After everybody got away?  Why the **** would he do that?  Instead, he just grabs a unit and goes out to fight, completely forgetting what he was going to do?  Worse, the whole reason Asahina went into the capitol building in the first place was to "restrain" Rolo, hinting that he knew what Rolo's intentions were.  If Rolo was outside already, why the **** would Asahina do that?  Convenient that Asahina managed to get off the "testimonial" of Kinoshita before he bit it.

And last, but not least, HOW THE **** WOULD SUZAKU, EVEN UNDER GEASS, BELIEVE THAT FIRING A MEGA-DEATH MASS KILL WEAPON WOULD HELP HIM LIVE?!  Even if Nina was screaming it in his ear, the Geass is not a suggestive piece of mind control.  The only way it would take effect is if SUZAKU believed it would save his life, and he mentioned several times beforehand in the episode that the darned thing was not to be used!  He knew how dangerous and potentially life threatening it was (especially to him), so how would firing that mother****ing nuke-wannabe gun be a result of some sort of delusional reasoning?

Last but not least, remember the oldest adage in storytelling plots:  if there's no body, nobody's dead.

Bullshit.

Bullshit.

And more bullshit.
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Offline C0MPL3X

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #101 on: August 11, 2008, 09:58:11 PM »
Quote
Rolo got out?  Didn't he make it his mission to kill Nunnally?  When was he expecting to do it?  After everybody got away?  Why the **** would he do that?  Instead, he just grabs a unit and goes out to fight, completely forgetting what he was going to do?  Worse, the whole reason Asahina went into the capitol building in the first place was to "restrain" Rolo, hinting that he knew what Rolo's intentions were.  If Rolo was outside already, why the **** would Asahina do that?  Convenient that Asahina managed to get off the "testimonial" of Kinoshita before he bit it.

And last, but not least, HOW THE **** WOULD SUZAKU, EVEN UNDER GEASS, BELIEVE THAT FIRING A MEGA-DEATH MASS KILL WEAPON WOULD HELP HIM LIVE?!  Even if Nina was screaming it in his ear, the Geass is not a suggestive piece of mind control.  The only way it would take effect is if SUZAKU believed it would save his life, and he mentioned several times beforehand in the episode that the darned thing was not to be used!  He knew how dangerous and potentially life threatening it was (especially to him), so how would firing that mother****ing nuke-wannabe gun be a result of some sort of delusional reasoning?And last, but not least, HOW THE **** WOULD SUZAKU, EVEN UNDER GEASS, BELIEVE THAT FIRING A MEGA-DEATH MASS KILL WEAPON WOULD HELP HIM LIVE?!  Even if Nina was screaming it in his ear, the Geass is not a suggestive piece of mind control.  The only way it would take effect is if SUZAKU believed it would save his life, and he mentioned several times beforehand in the episode that the darned thing was not to be used!  He knew how dangerous and potentially life threatening it was (especially to him), so how would firing that mother****ing nuke-wannabe gun be a result of some sort of delusional reasoning?

this part is gold ^____^

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #102 on: August 11, 2008, 10:01:13 PM »
Well I'll be able to accept it one day, that day being when Lelouch kill Rolo, for whatever reason. I still think it was a good episode, mainly because it is sometimes more painful when you see a character's death coming and you know nothing can change that. It worked in Macross F, well except that Ozma lived.

Something in the back of my head tells me that everyone in that blast is still alive, and this time, I hope an ass pull is made. What am I thinking? It's Code Geass, no other anime can get away with so many ass pulls and still be good.

Offline royal crown

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #103 on: August 11, 2008, 10:54:22 PM »
In all honesty, I'm more concerned about Asahina dying than Nunally. This is for 3 reasons:

1. He was more of a badass than anyone else that died (I guess tied with Sayoko).
2. Rolo didn't kill Nunally. As it stands, Nunally dying as a result of nukage really is just going to get Lelouch pissed off even more at Suzaku, instead of turning on Rolo, which would lead to some crazy plot development. However, Asahina's bit to Kinoshita can actually lead to some internal politics within the Black Knights, with or without Nunally's death. Yes Nunally's death may exacerbate this, but it's hardly as instrumental as Asahina's message.
3. Nunally's still alive.

As an aside: Nina didn't die. Nina didn't ****ING die. I hate Nina so much, and Asahina dies instead of Nina?! And it's not as if Nina has any relevance to the plot at all - or at least far less relevance than Asahina has to the plot (which up until right now wasn't much at all). She's solely there to be annoying as hell, and if there's anyone that should've died, it's her.

Offline DarkKanti

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #104 on: August 12, 2008, 07:55:19 AM »
As an aside: Nina didn't die. Nina didn't ****ING die. I hate Nina so much, and Asahina dies instead of Nina?! And it's not as if Nina has any relevance to the plot at all - or at least far less relevance than Asahina has to the plot (which up until right now wasn't much at all). She's solely there to be annoying as hell, and if there's anyone that should've died, it's her.

Agreed.  I definitely think she'll die by the end of the show though.

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #105 on: August 17, 2008, 07:47:24 PM »
Spoiler for Hiden:
Ep 19 was excellent.  The Order of the Black Knights turn on Zero after being told the truth by Schneizel.  Rolo comes in at the last moment to save Lelouch, but ends up dying from overusing his geass.  I was actually surprised by how sad Rolo's death actually was.  I was never a big fan of him as a character, but his finl moments were very touching.  In the end though everything falls apart for Lelouch, and he is left all alone. 

With nothing to lose, its going to be exciting to see Lelouch take on the rest of the World.

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Offline TypicalIdiotFan

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #106 on: August 18, 2008, 12:30:25 AM »
That you speechless or did something not work there, DK?

As for 19, I got little to say.  This would / should have been something saved for a season ending cliffhanger leading into a R3 (or whatever).  As it is, we're transitioning into something else now and we'll see how it goes from here.
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Offline C0MPL3X

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #107 on: August 18, 2008, 02:47:47 AM »
Well ****.

The last emotion I expected to feel when seeing Rollo dead was sadness. I was saving 'SUCK IT ROLLO' macro for the day he finally died. I just can't bring myself to hate him now. He was gay as hell throughout 18 episodes, but he somewhat redeemed for it with this. Just when Lelouch gave up all hope and chose death, Rollo saved him. Could Lelouch dare to ignore Rollo's sacrifice?

I thought this episode was going to be weak at the beginning. The horror of FLEIA massacre was severely underplayed (I mean...they killed MILLIONS) and like Barrelhaven said, the way Schneizer convinced the Black Knights was bit too convenient. I think the main problem was giving us all the details behind why they thought Lelouch was toying with the Order, which make us question issues like voice-recording. I thought it would have been more subtle and acceptable if Schneizer handed them a file, cut to another scene, then come back to this scene where all the members analysed them objectively and came to the same conclusion as Schneizer. But never mind that, it wasn't a big issue, I sort of went along with it.

And bawwww Kallen was willing to die with Lelouch. I know her brother, her mother and her desire to bring independence to Japan for her family members is damn important to her, and she was willing to kick them all away to die with Lelouch? ;_; boo hooo.

Still not digging Nyu version of C.C.

And finally, this leaves Lelouch in a very interesting position. I seriously can not even begin to imagine where his path lies now. He wants to take on Charles but how? With what army? I can imagine Kallen and Orange siding with him (and maybe Diethard and Rakshata) but still...

As much as I'm enjoying Code Geass, I wish this didn't go into third season. The plot is hot right now, and I'd rather end it with a bang, rather than drag it for another season (because really, the first half of this season to me was pretty weak). But I doubt it.

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #108 on: August 18, 2008, 03:18:07 AM »
This won't go into a third series.  I'm pretty sure this will be the final season.

As for this episode
Spoiler for ep 19:
who'd have thought Lelouch's last friend would be Rolo.  Rolo's death scene was just so fitting for a Geass death, so over the top and romantic in its way.

But Lelouch is pretty much back to the beginning, having lost everything except his grudge against his father while Suzaka has unwillingly nuked all his principles and ideals.  If there's one thing Geass has done particularly well, it's how these characters have devolved.  It just wouldn't surprise me if Lelouch gets so caught up in his revenge trip that he completely forgets why he set out on it in the first place... to find out how his mother was killed.
Spoiler for speculation:
Assuming, of course, that she's even dead in the first place.

Edit: I can't put spoilers inside of spoilers?  What a jip.

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #109 on: August 18, 2008, 07:50:22 AM »
You know, without mentioning any other anime about a morally ambiguous anti-hero on a quest to change the world, I would have to say that in a sense, Lelouch's downfall was inevitable. Except, this time instead of being about not being able to bear the weight of his crimes, it was because Lelouch could never shake of the fact that he is human, and thus, he can only go so far.

At Rolo's death, half of me was squealing with joy while the other was beating that half to a pulp saying "This creepy boy gave his life for Lulu, at least show him some respect."

And Nina, showing remorse? Now that, was unexpected. I can't hold this in anymore. Get that girl a table; she needs some comforting.

Offline Shadowmage

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #110 on: August 18, 2008, 09:15:39 PM »
Episode 19

For me, this episode was epic beyond words.  I hated Rolo as a character and as a plot device, but with this, I have to recognize that he was necessary to the overall story.

I recommend Mobile Suit, RX-0 and Unicorn from the Unicorn OST.

Offline Ascaloth

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #111 on: August 19, 2008, 05:35:28 AM »
Something you guys should see:

http://trainwreck.ggkthx.org/2008/08/19/taniguchi-on-geass-not-as-planned/#comment-1421

Somehow, this explains a lot. LOLSUNRISE.

Offline Shadowmage

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #112 on: August 19, 2008, 07:05:21 AM »
Something you guys should see:

http://trainwreck.ggkthx.org/2008/08/19/taniguchi-on-geass-not-as-planned/#comment-1421

Somehow, this explains a lot. LOLSUNRISE.
So basically Suzaku's geass subplot and Kallen's backstory were axed for Rolo and the reset button. The fanservice potential was also lowered from a series that airs at 2:30 am to one that airs at 5:00 pm. 
« Last Edit: August 19, 2008, 07:14:24 AM by Shadowmage »

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #113 on: August 19, 2008, 07:12:19 AM »
Wait wait wait. Meddling Execs, axed plot points, author disillusionment? I think this seals it. Taniguchi has officially earned his place among the greats.

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #114 on: August 19, 2008, 07:15:31 AM »
Wait wait wait. Meddling Execs, axed plot points, author disillusionment? I think this seals it. Taniguchi has officially earned his place among the greats.
He was already there with Infinite Ryvius and Planetes.

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Offline C0MPL3X

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #115 on: August 19, 2008, 03:28:54 PM »
Yes this does indeed explain lot of things. Including a sentiment shared by many that the writers taking a holiday and monkeys behind the typewriter for the first half (lulz one million zero wut). I don't know about lowered fanservice though, the girls were whoring more than ever and the mechas were breeding like rabbits purely for the sake of pleasing mecha fans (and resorting to old animerules 101 back to DBZ days of using power ups/strong unit out of nowhere as a way to conveniently resolve a crisis). Let's not also forget the return of Orange (the official anime incarnation of terminator) and...ninja maid.

The whole Suzaku vs Lelouch interaction definitely wasn't as strong a focal point as it was in season one, which is a real shame, but the director managed to somehow maintain some of its value, especially with that scene where the trust between Lelouch and Suzaku was smashed again before they could shake hands again. I still think introducing Rollo was the worst thing to happen in R2, but they redeemed some of it through this last episode. I also was expecting a lot more from Nunually x Lelouch, which is why I didn't think Nunually really died. It didn't have that 'final straw out of nowhere' impact it should've had (the classic and unconquerable example being what happened to Boo & Soon in NTHT). 

So in the end, like many, I wish they stuck to the original intention and it's a shame we'll never see the show as if IT WAS JUST AS PLANNED. The director obviously has a lot of passion for his works, and kudos to him for salvaging what would have been pure moe-mecha fap nonsense material into something exciting through its second half.


Offline Ascaloth

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #116 on: August 21, 2008, 08:25:40 AM »

Offline C0MPL3X

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #117 on: August 21, 2008, 09:25:13 PM »
Reminds me of Gendo-Anno comparison. Could be overanalysing there but still interesting.

Offline Shadowmage

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #118 on: August 24, 2008, 01:48:54 PM »
Episode 20

Well, it seems that the Geass can indeed be used to "wish for more wishes."  It probably decimates a person's sense of free will, but at this point, Lelouch doesn't seem to care about anything except revenge.  This makes me wonder what Code Geass would have been like if Lelouch were like Light Yagami, but I suspect he would have taken over the world by episode 2.   

At this point, I don't know what place Suzaku has in the plot, but like Lelouch, he has nothing left except his sole ambition of becoming the Knight of One.  I personally find the Lelouch vs. Suzaku dynamic more interesting than the Charles vs. Lelouch direction, and I hope the show manages to return to it, but I'm not willing to make any bets as to where the plot is going to go.     

Anyways, The whole bit about Marianne and CC confused the hell out of me, but we're arriving at a climax so might as well break open the floodgates now (Sunrise still better come up with a good explanation of this).     

I recommend Mobile Suit, RX-0 and Unicorn from the Unicorn OST.

Offline Sorrow-kun

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #119 on: August 26, 2008, 06:42:00 AM »
We speculated something like this, didn't we?  When all those questions about Anya were being raised.  Something like, she's somehow related to Lelouch.  This raises more questions than it answers.  I think they'll explain this somehow, the question is how.

The best scene in this ep was the opening one.  Seeing Suzaku cast away the last of his humanism and sympathy... it's a powerful display of just how much the events have broken him, especially considering how the event that defined his past (him killing his father), as shortsighted and Machiavellian as it was, was done because of a misguided attempt to serve to the greater good of humankind and his countrymen.

Offline Bizzy_King

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #120 on: August 31, 2008, 05:05:59 PM »
episode 21.... WTF???

Offline Kavik Ryx

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #121 on: August 31, 2008, 06:55:35 PM »
Simple. All hail Lelouch!

Offline Ascaloth

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #122 on: August 31, 2008, 07:51:21 PM »
Only certain people can claim that this is not a trainwreck at this point.

Offline Shadowmage

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #123 on: August 31, 2008, 09:15:20 PM »
Only certain people can claim that this is not a trainwreck at this point.
You call it a "train wreck;" I call it "multi-track drifting."  It's all just semantics at this point.

I recommend Mobile Suit, RX-0 and Unicorn from the Unicorn OST.

Offline C0MPL3X

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #124 on: September 01, 2008, 04:03:01 AM »
This episode makes less sense than my grandmother beating Usain Bolt in 100m sprint. And I've seen lot of weird animes. I've been making things up to explain events in Geass, no matter how ridiculous they seemed but this is just asking for a total brain meltdown.

Was hell of entertaining though, if not for the ridiculous climax. Lelouch and his Brittania army vs Schenizel and Black Knights. Talk about TWISSTTTTTTTTTT

Offline royal crown

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #125 on: September 01, 2008, 06:37:56 PM »
Well, that sure was awful.

Offline TypicalIdiotFan

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #126 on: September 01, 2008, 06:38:38 PM »
Heh, screw you all.

ALL HAIL LELOUCH!
ALL HAIL LELOUCH!
ALL HAIL LELOUCH!
ALL HAIL LELOUCH!
ALL HAIL LELOUCH!
I'm just like you, only smarter™.

Offline Sorrow-kun

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #127 on: September 02, 2008, 02:28:10 AM »
WHAT THE ****?
WHAT THE ****?
No, seriously... WHAT THE ****?

Edit: And, to clarify, I did enjoy this for what it was, even if it did break my feeble little brain.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2008, 02:40:05 AM by Sorrow-kun »

Offline Shadowmage

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #128 on: September 07, 2008, 11:12:32 AM »
Episode 2

I did expect this to happen, but it was packaged in such a grand twist that I grinned like crazy. 

Currently, the plot is moving at warp speeds and more people are dying here than in the final episode of a Gundam series.  Lelouch pretty much proves himself to be the world's biggest dick, but he stops caring because he's now fully subscribed to "the ends triumphs the means" philosophy. Suzaku now has the Strike-Freedom, and provides some of the shortest mecha KOs I've ever seen for "major" characters. Schneizel now has a floating fortress of doom along with his arsenal of nukes... and plothacks. Though what built up to this point is utter BS, I can't help but love this setup.         
« Last Edit: September 07, 2008, 11:56:46 AM by Shadowmage »

I recommend Mobile Suit, RX-0 and Unicorn from the Unicorn OST.

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #129 on: September 08, 2008, 04:59:10 AM »
Ep 22

LUUULZ!!!

I don't even know what's going on anymore.  This show has just completely broken my brain.

Offline C0MPL3X

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #130 on: September 08, 2008, 12:38:32 PM »

Offline royal crown

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #131 on: September 08, 2008, 07:42:47 PM »
Ep 22:

I called it.

Offline Kavik Ryx

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #132 on: September 08, 2008, 09:44:29 PM »
At this point, I almost don't care what happens so long as we get to have an epic chess match between Lelouch and Shneizel.

Offline Ascaloth

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #133 on: September 08, 2008, 11:31:15 PM »
Whether it makes sense or not doesn't matter as long as it remains FABULOUS!!!
« Last Edit: September 08, 2008, 11:40:41 PM by Ascaloth »

Offline Shadowmage

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #134 on: September 14, 2008, 10:28:15 AM »
Episode 23

You know what, I like these strategy battles more than the generic, super mech fight scenes.  With the whole "prelude to an epic battle" scene, I expect this to be a blood bath for much of the secondary cast.  I was wondering why they introduced someone like Xingke so late in the series, but it seems that they were trying to pit as many people against Lelouch when the tables turned. On the other side of this shift, Nina has finaly become useful with her development of what looks like anti-fission devices. So far, this linear direction has has been interesting, but I expect that there to be a few more twists left in the wing.             

Anyways, Schneizel, you bastard!

I recommend Mobile Suit, RX-0 and Unicorn from the Unicorn OST.

Offline Kavik Ryx

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #135 on: September 14, 2008, 02:49:46 PM »
This has got to be the first battle in R2 I've really like, but it has been the best fight in Code Geass period. It played out in more of the way I would expect from a good space opera that a mecha series.

An issue I've always had with Code Geass has been whenever you take away the brains of the series, it must take refuge in its insanity. But when the insanity is gone, all you have left is a generic mecha seires. This, on the other hand, is one of the smartest fights I've seen in an anime. I really wish they had more ones like this one earlier on this season.

Offline C0MPL3X

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #136 on: September 14, 2008, 04:07:32 PM »
- This battle of tactics was a nice change from the battle of superior upgrades. It's still long way behind the epic warfare that is Crest of the Stars saga (especially Banner of the Stars), but this was still the better than most R2 battles. Of course, Lelouch's specialty of luring his enemies into some ridiculous trap strikes again (also Zhuge Liang's specialty).

- Looks like Diethard found his new homoerotic affection.

- Cornelia...Cornelia...Q_Q

- I liked the moment between C.C and Lelouch. In a way, C.C is the only person Lelouch can completely discard his mask that disguises his emotions and Lelouch is the only person C.C finds, imo, love. It's almost as if in this lonely world all they have is each other now. Yep, scratch Suzaku out of the picture, he's a tool now.

- Schneizel is awesome. Keep this up and he may just be the most badass villain this season (not that he has many to compete with).

Offline Ascaloth

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #137 on: September 15, 2008, 09:36:12 AM »
Unlike the rest, I didn't like the "battle of tactics" all that much; it looked like Lelouch and Schneizel were just pushing pieces around. Sure, it's a lot better than the Tech Wars R2 had fallen victim to for a while, but it's still not at the level of epic that the R1 tactical battles were.

I still think the Babel Tower battle was by far the best of what R2 had to offer in terms of mech battle.

Offline Shadowmage

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #138 on: September 15, 2008, 09:53:05 AM »
Unlike the rest, I didn't like the "battle of tactics" all that much; it looked like Lelouch and Schneizel were just pushing pieces around. Sure, it's a lot better than the Tech Wars R2 had fallen victim to for a while, but it's still not at the level of epic that the R1 tactical battles were.

I still think the Babel Tower battle was by far the best of what R2 had to offer in terms of mech battle.
Well, yes, R1 had far better fights because of terrain tactics. Once everyone got float units, the fight scenes pretty much became the same thing as any other mech anime.   

I recommend Mobile Suit, RX-0 and Unicorn from the Unicorn OST.

Offline Shadowmage

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #139 on: September 21, 2008, 11:15:55 AM »
Episode 24

You know, this whole yearning for tomorrow bit reminded me of Gurren Lagann, except instead of hammering this ideology with fists of iron, Lelouch and Schneizel discussed this over a cup of tea with some light, saltine crackers.  I probably should have seen the end coming, but I still thought Lelouch's final strategy was on the lower levels of awesome. 
   
Though I've hated many, many things up to this point, I'm rather enjoying the fireworks now.

I recommend Mobile Suit, RX-0 and Unicorn from the Unicorn OST.

Offline Sorrow-kun

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #140 on: September 22, 2008, 01:22:07 AM »
You know what, I enjoyed that.  That was a great episode.  That was just a good old-fashion win by Lelouch in a battle of wits.  He outsmarted Schneizel, and it was comprehensive.  A fair share of contrivances and things that can only happen with the most convenient of timing, but nothing like the nonsensical garbage we'd gotten between eps 21-23.  I can dig that.  It's a lot easier to suspend disbelief when things are actually enjoyable and suspenseful than when we're knocked down by plot twist after plot twist, half of which only barely make sense.

One complaint: a lot of 'The rumours of my death have been greatly exaggerated' in this episode.  Before this ep, Code Geass could hardly be criticized for not having the balls to kill off popular characters at its whim.  I wonder, why now, it suddenly decides to renege on the mortality of a few certain characters.

Offline Ascaloth

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #141 on: September 22, 2008, 02:09:11 AM »
After watching this episode, I was looking into my brain to find something resembling proper thought, only to find that the poor thing has already started waving the white flag around long ago.

Well whatever, I'll still be here for the last episode, if only to see how Sunrise caps off a long series of FABULOUS with a worthy FABULOUS ending.

Offline C0MPL3X

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #142 on: September 22, 2008, 03:55:51 AM »
Gonna agree with Shadowmage and Sorrow here, great episode for me. Some more random comments for the day.

- Cornelia!!!! ^____^

- Man I love C.C...I personally don't think we've seen enough of her and Lelouch together, but then again there's tons of other stuff as well that they glossed over so...

- Speaking of characters I adore...Kallen is back!!!!! Grind that Suzaku into mincemeat.

- Nunually seriously freaked me out there. I guess her face was chosen to be today's WEEKLY GEASS EXPRESSION. (last week was Ougi unquestionably, it's like they're doing it on purpose).

I doubt the last episode is going to be as epic as first season's but we can only hope. Right now, R2 is looking round 6/10~7/10 for me, but who knows,, the climax may just be epic win.

Or epic fail -___-

Offline Sorrow-kun

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #143 on: September 22, 2008, 06:16:44 AM »
Yeah, that's about where I am.  I'm probably leaning slightly more towards "6" than "7", but if the last episode is good enough that could easily change.  It's a bit of a difference from the first season, which was a clear "8" just on impact factor for me.  The show just seemed to lose its way a bit for a number of episodes, and became more concerned with plot twists for the sake of it rather than a story with a strong sense of direction, something which I thought the first season had.

Offline Kavik Ryx

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #144 on: September 22, 2008, 07:30:46 AM »
Well for me the 1st season was easily an 8, and this one is looking at a 7. But I will be personally honest and say that from the moment in episode 2 of R1 when Suzaku survived from having a pocket watch, I have more or less had my brain off and simply have fun.

Also, I think I'm the only one who does not have any beef with Sunrise, or I'm just imagining things.

Offline royal crown

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #145 on: September 22, 2008, 09:42:54 AM »
This will probably end up as a 6 in my mental categorization/ratings. I think that I would have given the first season a 7, and just comparatively I think that there are a number of flaws that are present in season two that were not (at least to an equal magnitude) present in season one. I think that there were too many points at which I was confused about what was going on (due to organization moreso than "wtf plot twist") whereas with season 1 it was much more linear and comprehensible. I also think that R2 bit off more than it could chew, because a lot of the plotlines were too epic in scope and thus were resolved FAR too quickly. Recently, the whole Schniezel thing was resolved FAR too quickly, and the same goes for Shirley (they could have gone somewhere with that, but instead they just killed her off) and even with Charles. My memory of the first season isn't 100% clear, and I'm sure plenty of these problems persisted in the first season as well, but I think it's easier to ignore them due to the excitement that R1 brought. That being said, by the time R2 came around, I got tired of it really quickly. It was still enjoyable, but it wasn't as intense, and the quick pace became a burden instead of an asset. I think R2 just took it farther than the series could go, and I would've welcomed a legitimate resolution in the first season much more.

Offline Shadowmage

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #146 on: September 28, 2008, 06:46:33 AM »
Wow, HOLY SHIT.

I recommend Mobile Suit, RX-0 and Unicorn from the Unicorn OST.

Offline Kavik Ryx

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #147 on: September 28, 2008, 10:43:06 AM »
Holy Shit doesn't even begin to cover it.

Offline C0MPL3X

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #148 on: September 28, 2008, 05:22:38 PM »
Ok here is my take on the ending.

Firstly, I don't want to focus on details behind how Lelouch would have survived or not (i.e. code trasnfer and all that shit). This is Sunrise. God damn Orange died two times and was sunnecro-rised back to life.

I've narrowed the scenario down to two possibilities. Lelouch in each scenario is completely different in character. I don't know which one I prefer at this point but I am sure upon watching it again some time later (not now, I think I've already watched just the ending and few other key scenes twenty times) I'll do better.

SCENARIO ONE
KiraraKim's situation. Lelouch is really dead. This makes lot of sense of Lelouch's character. Not only would having him alive at the end make it a cop-out (haha you see, I came back alive because of this bullshit and that bullshit reason), it doesn't go well with his character development. He committed sins, he recognised his wrong and he is redeemed by his sefless act to save the world. C.C also seemed to be praying for Lelouch's soul, praying that his great deed is enough to redeem him of his sins.

In this case C.C's final words could translate to,
"because of my immortality, I have lost the ability to love another human being. But now I have met you. I now know what it is to be not lonely again."...and you'll live forever in my heart or some sappy crap like that...which I am not liking one bit.

Even if he was somehow brought back alive without being aware of it, if this is Lelouch that wants to redeem himself, I expect him to bite his tongue and get ****ed.

SCENARIO TWO
Lelouch is alive.

And he has been lying. To everyone. Even to his audience (indirectly). Even to Suzaku, Kallen, Orange, Cornelia, Nunually and bunch of other inside-group in his final moments with them, he never let down his mask of deception. He knew he was going to be alive (by some cock-and-bullshit method) but he wanted the people he CARED about to think that he was a hero. That he died for justice. 

But isn't that enough? Does truth really matter when the result is same? Since the end is the same, can't the method in attaining that be different? And so Lelouch and C.C laugh at the poor fools behind their back and go on their journey. What will they do? Retreat into some reclused area and live a modest lifestyle? Come up with another fictional character and take over the world? Travel around the world and have mad sex for eternity? Who knows.

I am not very happy with either interpretation at this moment, but so far those two are the only ones I can somewhat swallow without seeing Lelouch alive while still intending to sacrifice himself. I'm looking forward to reading lots of other interpretations as well to modify my view.

...and now for random comments...

- Like Barrel, I wanted Suzaku dead. But I guess it worked better for the plot to have him alive but...RAGEEEEEE
- Orange working in orange garden...
- Blind Guilford looking out the window...priceless...best laugh I had in a long time. Anyway, I still don't understand why they needed to sun-rised him back alive, he did nothing.
- I AM STILL NOT FEELING COMFORTABLE HAVING SCHNEIZEL AROUND DOING POLITICS. Lelouch should've killed him first. I mean, how long is that Geass going to last anyway. Do you really want a guy like Schneizel hanging around the government?
- I was never a fan of Euphie, Shirley or Rollo but I would have appreciated if we had a shot of Suzaku remembering them or something. I mean in a way, they were sacrificial lambs needed to help Lelouch see the wrongs of his way.
- As much as I loved the Zero Requiem and his final moments with Suzaku, I didn't dig his moments with Nunually. This is mostly because Nunually is a boring character and we didn't have any significant buildups from her. Well, at least compared to C.C. Which goes back to my focus on Lelouch's interaction with C.C...would it have been more powerful if C.C was sharing Lelouch's last moment with him?

Offline royal crown

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #149 on: September 28, 2008, 06:47:07 PM »
25:

I got nothing.

Offline Bizzy_King

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #150 on: September 28, 2008, 08:17:13 PM »
my eyes can't register what they just saw

Offline Ascaloth

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #151 on: September 28, 2008, 10:12:59 PM »
FABULOUS

'Nuff said.

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #152 on: September 28, 2008, 10:27:02 PM »
Indeed, fabulous. If hes not dead, the only way he would be alive..normally people aren't supposed to just get memories flooded to them as some kind of sibling connection..referring to what nunally experienced as lelouch was dying. Perhaps he is still alive because he is immortal having taken CC's code before all this happened, because I personally didnt see it in her last few scenes, praying, or even on the hair, unless they just wanted to discreetly cover it. To me she didn't seem the type to talk to the deceased..perhaps lelouch was...

http://www.tsukuru.info/r2/



or was just driving..the wagon.


oh and jeremiah has ALWAYS been the badass in this anime. no joke.

http://img515.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1222629341541kv6st1.jpg

Offline Sorrow-kun

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #153 on: September 29, 2008, 03:30:19 AM »
He can't be alive.  That was a good ending, but him being alive would completely undo it.

I want to know just what Orange made Anya remember.  Gino turned out to be a completely pointless character.

I loved the "Zero Requiem" scene, it was brilliantly executed, but I thought Nunnally's outburst afterwards was a bit too much, and the choice of insert song to accompany her scene was really just awful.  Particularly in comparison with the rather melancholic and hollow music they used in "Zero Requiem".  That track, combined with the way the entire series kinda flashed past the scene as Lelouch passed felt reminiscent of a piece of hyper-link cinema.  I'm not sure why, it just felt that way to me.

But that was a good ending overall.  Some things were a bit off, like the scene towards the beginning where they went round between different fights and different characters to briefly revisit their motivations.  But Lelouch's fate and the mask of Zero brings things neatly full circle and (finally, and a bit belatedly) gives sensible motivations to both Lelouch and Suzaku.  I'm not sure I'm cool with CC's fate being that she just went off into the countryside.

So, was this enough to redeem the show for a patch of three of four episodes that made NO sense... I'm not sure yet, give me some time to think things over.

Offline C0MPL3X

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #154 on: September 29, 2008, 03:41:34 AM »
Oh yes Jeremiah. Textbook example of awesome side character and meme for years to come.

I'm at the moment strongly leaning towards Lelouch being alive but I disagree with the majority's reasonings. Most people are debating on the question of "is it really possible for Lelouch to be alive" and using speculations based on code of immortality and other little details.

I just think they are all asking the wrong question. For works like this, there's always enough ambiguity to find details you need to support a certain claim. To paraphrase the mystery masterpiece Old Boy the important question here is not "who dun itwhat" but "why dun it". Rather than embarking on fruitless and superficial attempt to determine whether he is really dead or not, we should be asking exactly why Lelouch would choose to live or not (because I think it's just stupid if he seriously wanted to die right then and there, but woke up to conveniently find himself alive). This possibility transforms the way I view Lelouch's character completely. The possibility of Lelouch hiding his intention of faking his death by putting on a mask of heroism in front of the people he cared about, including Suzaku, Nunually, Kallen and whole bunch of others is frightening. It's frightening how far someone would go to deceive in order to attain his goal (whatever Lelouch's goal now may be travelling with C.C), and how damn effective they can be. All the more effective because we as audience too were completely fooled by such deception until it hit me with such sheer force at the end. In a way, Lelouch have always enjoyed putting on his mask and performing lies in order to achieve greater good with C.C beside him as partner in crime, and this is no exception. I think it still stays true to his character, which of course doesn't mean that Lelouch being dead will be false.

Looking at C.C irks me in this case though. On one hand, I don't think she's a romantic who can claim not to be lonely as long as she can converse with an ethereal being from the world of C (or that Lelouch lives inside her...), so I think she's definitely talking to the driver (we do get a half-assed an of the driver before looking at C.C). On the other hand, I don't know why she would be praying for Lelouch as she cries for his heroic act. I suppose I could look at Lelouch deceiving C.C as well (which I'm not liking), or Lelouch somehow waking up to find C.C next to him explaining how code blablabla enabled him to survive (which I'm REALLY not liking, and this also means that Lelouch as a character is the honest version, not deceitful version). Yea...I thought I had mine til that prayer scene -__-

*Hmm I wonder if Lelouch really did plan to hide all this from his friends from the conception of Zero Requiem. I should probably marathon the whole thing sometime and come to a proper conclusion.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2008, 04:00:25 AM by C0MPL3X »

Offline Sorrow-kun

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #155 on: September 29, 2008, 05:01:49 AM »
This is one of those endings that's really open to interpretation.  I've read some rather compelling evidence that Lelouch is alive, but I can't help but keep coming back to the "Lelouch is dead" theory because it's just easier that way.  If we're looking at this from the point of view of plausibility, the most plausible conclusion is that Lelouch is dead, since him being alive relies on a number of coincidences and conveniences (not a first for this show, I realize).

It really does come down to "what do you want to believe".  If you want to believe that the only constant in the way he's carried himself has been a desire to destroy and recreate the world for his sister, then the inevitable conclusion is that his death was a final act of self-sacrifice and an atonement for his use of Geass.  If you want to believe that that in fact died when he killed his parents and was betrayed by the Black Knighs and his sister, then he manipulated things to allow himself to live afterall.  It's ambiguous, so it'll piss off people who like endings with a strong sense of finality (like me) and captivate those who love to analyze endings that are well and truly open to interpretation.

Offline C0MPL3X

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #156 on: September 29, 2008, 05:35:16 AM »
Speaking strictly in terms of plausibility, the case of Lelouch being alive is quite strong. We've seen C.C's ability to create flashbacks through body contact and this leaves us a question of how exactly did Lelouch make Nunually see those visions (unless Nunually has Geass, or she guessed what Lelouch would have done).

Also, some screenshots I captured.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a258/L4lN/random.jpg?t=1222691811

Not terribly relevant except for the fact that it got me thinking about his promise to C.C. I first thought it referred to Lelouch taking the code from C.C and becoming an immortal instead of her. Obviously that didn't happen. But what C.C wanted was escape from eternal loneliness. So instead of dying, she is now able to live for eternity with R2 (yes I like to bullshit with anime titles, just like I still think FLCL is Fooly Cooly[you're a fool trying to be cool, you're cool staying as a fool] despite the fact that creators themselves said it had no meaning), hence no more loneliness.

And that is how Relouch Ramperouge came back to fulfill his promise to C2. Plus, I really dig the notion that Lelouch put on this mask in front of Suzaku and others, like he did against everyone in season one, in order to save the world, but still feeling like he's a genius saving the world by controlling these chess pieces and lying to everyone.

To me it's crucial that the show fulfills C.C's promise, without doing so is an absolute crime against such an adorable character. And I find it hard to believe that she got what she wanted at the very end if Lelouch is indeed dead.

I just can't figure out why C.C was crying her tears for Lelouch's manly act. Maybe I should just go with the easy answer but I am still liking "R2 & C2" route more.

« Last Edit: September 29, 2008, 05:43:55 AM by C0MPL3X »

Offline Kavik Ryx

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #157 on: September 29, 2008, 06:49:37 AM »
Part of me wants him to be alive, the other is comfortable with his death. Lelouch's last moments were so, well indescribable, that it wouldn't be right not to follow through. On the other hand, aside from those little clues everywhere, I like the idea of C2 and R2 traveling the world together for eternity.

But more importantly, Orange-kun lived to the end and that's what matters.

Offline Ascaloth

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #158 on: September 29, 2008, 07:23:44 AM »
Remember, Sorrow, it's Sunrise. Lelouch can and WILL be brought back if the Sunrise execs think they can make more money off it.  :D

Offline Shadowmage

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #159 on: September 29, 2008, 07:32:54 AM »
As a person in the "Lelouch is alive" camp, the only real question I have remaining is why Lelouch would traumatize his beloved sister and best friend without having him sound like a heartless person.  The only real explanation I can come up with is that Lelouch want to remove Geass from the world.  Don't forget that Suzaku is a candidate for Geass, so in order to remove even the most remote possibility of a contract exchange, Lelouch removed himself from even the thought process of Suzaku and dissappeared into obscurity. The only explanation I can come up with Nunnally is that Lelouch can't fool Suzaku without fooling Nunnally first.     

I recommend Mobile Suit, RX-0 and Unicorn from the Unicorn OST.

Offline Kavik Ryx

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #160 on: September 29, 2008, 07:42:18 AM »
On a different note, I hope that Lelouch ends up being the last "Carrying a Cross" character we see in years. After a performance like that, anything like it will just be insipid by comparison.

As for the preceding episodes being brain frying, at the very least, it was done without any sort of character derailment. The only person who's intentions really changed was Suzaku, and that was justified by him losing it. As insane as it was, you got to give some props for them being able to keep the characters consistent in their actions.

Offline AC

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #161 on: September 29, 2008, 08:22:42 AM »
To me, Lelouch is just better off dead, as much as how I enjoyed watching R2. His incessant weaseling out from impossibly tight situations is incredible to impossible, and if there's an end to it, it should be that one.

Offline Sorrow-kun

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #162 on: September 29, 2008, 09:12:25 AM »
C0MPL3X:  You've been reading anime|otaku, I take it.  I like Michael's theories, but his bias is obvious (and shared by you, I'm guessing :p)

I guess one way to think of it is that Lelouch serves CC by being alive, but serves himself (at least any prevailing sense of honour he had) by being dead.  The question is, who does he hold in higher esteem, CC or Nunnally, Suzaku and the Black Knights.  I guess one could reason that, of those, only CC never once betrayed him.  That's probably the best argument for him being alive that I can think of.

Ascaloth:  So cynical.  Why so cynical?  What experiences with which people could possibly have made you so cynical?  ;)

Offline Sorrow-kun

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #163 on: September 29, 2008, 09:25:04 AM »
Actually I'm starting to think that Lelouch is alive after all.  Now that I've really put some thought into it, I think the only plausible interpretation is that he ran off with 'Nani, Mai Hunni' to a tropical island somewhere in the Pacific.  They're both still wearing their asshats.

Offline royal crown

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #164 on: September 29, 2008, 10:05:56 AM »
So... what's C.C.'s name? Did they never actually reveal it?

I'm just trying to see if I missed anything throughout the course of watching, because I still don't really know what I want to make of the ending. I don't mean "is Lelouch dead" because I think it's inconsequential - either way Lelouch achieves his vision of an ideal world, and ultimately the anime is bigger than Lelouch. More importantly (to me anyway), I'm trying to decide how satisfactory of an ending it was in relation to the series as a whole. I'm not quite sure yet - I think it was a fairly good and fairly solid ending, but I still think there are a lot of holes that need to be patched up. C.C.'s name? Why alliterated initials? If they just did it to be "cool," they're bordering on Evangelion's "symbolism for the sake of symbolism." The power of Geass also needed to be fleshed out a bit, I think, not necessarily because it was always relevant to the plot (I could've done without any explanation whatsoever and just attribute it to some supernatural phenomenon a la Death Note) but because they pretty much MADE it relevant to the plot. After building up all of this complication with Charles, V.V. (what the hell happened to that guy?), the order, etc. I think it was far too rushed and sloppy of a resolution considering how gigantic they blew the issue into. I'm sure a lot of my confusion was due to me not paying 100% attention to the plot, but I really shouldn't have to. I don't think it's a good thing when a series needs rewatching not to retouch on foreshadowing, themes, underlying elements, etc. but solely to pick up the pieces of a scattered and convoluted plot.

Eh. 6/10. No amount of epicness in a final (singular) episode can resolve these issues that run so deeply into the core of the plot.

EDIT: I have to bite. What the hell is this "Fabulous" nonsense?
« Last Edit: September 29, 2008, 10:18:27 AM by royal crown »

Offline Bizzy_King

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #165 on: September 29, 2008, 01:47:49 PM »
to be totally honest i believe lulu had too much pride to not go thru with his suicidal plan.... but being in the he's alive camp, and the fact that nunnly had a code flash back, and this series has pulled soo many other things outta its @$$ that i think for an ova we could see a lil glimpse of him in the future


... plus who else is smart enuff to kill themself and live

Offline Bizzy_King

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #166 on: September 29, 2008, 01:53:28 PM »
On a different note, I hope that Lelouch ends up being the last "Carrying a Cross" character we see in years. After a performance like that, anything like it will just be insipid by comparison.

As for the preceding episodes being brain frying, at the very least, it was done without any sort of character derailment. The only person who's intentions really changed was Suzaku, and that was justified by him losing it. As insane as it was, you got to give some props for them being able to keep the characters consistent in their actions.

I concur

Offline C0MPL3X

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #167 on: September 29, 2008, 03:52:34 PM »
C0MPL3X:  You've been reading anime|otaku, I take it.  I like Michael's theories, but his bias is obvious (and shared by you, I'm guessing :p)

I guess one way to think of it is that Lelouch serves CC by being alive, but serves himself (at least any prevailing sense of honour he had) by being dead.  The question is, who does he hold in higher esteem, CC or Nunnally, Suzaku and the Black Knights.  I guess one could reason that, of those, only CC never once betrayed him.  That's probably the best argument for him being alive that I can think of.
O...I've been reading BIT MORE than his blog but he was kind enough to organise key ammunitions I needed to support my view.

Although I still have to disagree with Michale's approach. I've said this before but people are far more interested in plausibility and that's a fruitless endeavour because like you've mentioned, his bias is glaringly obvious. What he calls "firm evidence{s}" are nothing more than vague signs that hint towards a certain possibility. Therefore, I agree that it all ultimately boils down to how you want to see Lelouch and CC as characters and how their relationship to be resolved (or not resolved).

I saw the possibility of Lelouch keeping true to his deceitful and manipulative nature (rather than revealing his true intentions to those he cared about as he died), running off with his partner C.C after everything went just as planned. And the notion of C2 and R2 travelling around for eternity is far more inviting to me than Lelouch living inside CC's heart or something more sentimental. This completely changes the way we view Lelouch and CC so I'd much prefer people look at the difference the interpretations would bring to the characters and not whether something is more plausible than another because the very nature of an open ending demands no concrete plausibility.

I also realise that lot of people in "alive camp" sees Lelouch really intending to die heroically, only to find himself awake next to C.C. I think this greatly diminishes the impact and meaning of his death scene and almost reduces it to an absurd comedy.

As for responding to RC's post...

- C.C's name is never revealed. C.C's real name is two words, which C.C reveals to Lelouch by mistake. C.C is a codename, possibly standing for Collective Consciousness. Or Cheese Crust.

- "Fabulous" is a Geass meme referring to how FABULOUS Code Geass is despite it being a complete trainwreck (I wouldn't go far as calling it complete trainwreck, since final few episodes do have coherency and wrap up key loops)

- Your previous post pretty much summed up why season one is superior to R2. Its writing is very weak, but I think it managed to excel in entertainment department and as an entertainment that ranks very high on my list. And it's not so much worse than its prequel to deserve a whole rating lower imo, so 7/10 from me.

Another flaw I wish to mention about R2 is its failure to orchestrate so much plot lines into one epic finale. In terms of interweaving monstrous amount of plots, involving both individual characters and their interactions with not one but several other characters, Infinite Ryvius is at the top tier. I expected better from the same director but o well. That's what irks me the most, because I wanted to see much more from CC and Lelouch, from Kallen and Gino (which was starting to develop I thought), Anya and her past (which turned out to be lazy plot hack...I had a Geass that lives through someone's body! Man I cried so hard at that scene) and the list just goes on...

Offline TypicalIdiotFan

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #168 on: September 29, 2008, 07:18:25 PM »
Lelouch being alive would ruin the ending.
Sunrise made this show.
Therefore...
Sunrise ruined this ending.

Yep, he's he dude driving the wagon at the end there.  No way around it.  I was actually ready to weep for the ****er, too.
I'm just like you, only smarter™.

Offline Ascaloth

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #169 on: September 29, 2008, 07:26:23 PM »
@Sorrow,

Eh heh heh.  ;D

@RC,

As far as I know, this blog is the originator of the "Code Geass is FABULOUS" meme.

Offline Sorrow-kun

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #170 on: September 29, 2008, 10:09:21 PM »
You know, it only just now occurred to me that the ambiguousness of Lelouch's fate makes Code Geass' ending a cop-out.  I mean, after reading what seems like a million blog posts speculating on whether Lelouch is alive or dead, all each as plausible and logical as each other, it just shows that there's a lack of really decisive evidence to indicate either way.  Everyone seems to know what happened to Lelouch, but no one seems to agree.  They've left such a massive and important hole between Lelouch's death and CC's final scene.  So, what do people do: they think up the ending that satisfies themselves.  It's a cop-out on Sunrise's part because rather than potentially piss off a portion of the fanbase, they've gone with an ending which encourages people to fill in the holes themselves, and people are generally going with the ending that makes them happiest.

It's kinda like the ending of 5cm Per Second, which was the aspect of that film that annoyed me the most.  It's not great storytelling, if you ask me though.  "Make your own ending up, we don't have the balls to present something decisive".  A bit disappointing from a show that, if nothing else, couldn't be questioned for lack of balls before this point.

Offline Shadowmage

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #171 on: September 29, 2008, 10:48:34 PM »
While I do agree that the ending is pretty much a cop out, I don't really agree with the sentiment that Sunrise did this because they lacked balls.  In my opinion, the company left the ending ambiguous simply to get a strong public reaction.  Code Geass R2 has pretty much been written (and drawn) so that it maximizes the buzz from the fanbase.  I have a feeling that they had a good grasp of where they wanted to go with this, but much of their finer details seem tailored to pander to fans (Orange, Ninja maid, etc.) and thus, create even more hype.   

Who knows, perhaps if you collect all the BluRays, crack a secret code from each of the disks and input it a super secret website, there's a low quality stream of the actual ending. 

I recommend Mobile Suit, RX-0 and Unicorn from the Unicorn OST.

Offline C0MPL3X

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #172 on: September 29, 2008, 11:13:43 PM »
Considering how my favourite director's signature trait is leaving us with totally ambiguous ending, I don't see why it's a bad thing. They're ambiguous exactly because there is a massive hole that you can't fill, otherwise you're going to have another highly probable "answer" handed to your platter. The very purpose of ambiguous ending is to force you to confront your themes and answer for yourself rather than having an answer delivered to you, although I have to say that I'd much prefer people engage in "filling in" more thematically and character-driven issues, rather than the question of plausibility. I am not sure what distinguishes between a good or bad open ending (and I'd say the final "zomg" arrived too sudden and without any significant build up compared to majority of open endings I've been exposed to), but I'm rather happy with what I got for now.

Offline Sorrow-kun

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #173 on: September 29, 2008, 11:55:22 PM »
I just consider denouement a really important aspect of storytelling.  I mean, the apparent meaning of the story is completely different depending on whether you think Lelouch is dead or alive.

I want to know who this favourite director is, but for fun I'll take a blind guess: Sofia Coppola?

Shadowmage:  That's a pretty cynical way to look at things as well. :p I mean, they didn't fail at that, that's for sure.  But I'm not sure it was the sole motivator in how they wrote that ending.  I mean, that'd make it less a "cop-out" and more a "sell-out".

Offline C0MPL3X

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #174 on: September 30, 2008, 01:21:21 AM »
Apparent meaning does change, which is part of the beauty of it I guess.

And you probably wouldn't know my favourite director, he's Korean (kekeke) but I think I've dropped his name enough here and there. Kim Ki Duk has such an unique and captivating style, there really is no one like him. You know those films, that you watch and instantly know who directed it? His works are one of them. He's not going to win Oscars anytime soon but he has several artsy ones like Cannes and Berlin up his sleeve.

I don't think his works are up your alley (very imagistic, poor on narrative side, ambiguity abound) but you might still enjoy 3-Iron and Spring, Summer, Autumn, Winter...and Spring. Dheu loves the former and practically every critics appreciate the latter. Or if you want to see why he's so controversial, you should check out his The Isle. I'll tip my hat to whoever that can find a more bizarre and disturbing open ending.

Although if I have to pick one Korean film to recommend it would be Old Boy, no contest. Now that's how to do an ambiguous ending beautifully.

...well that was an epic off topic.

Offline sargeras66

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #175 on: November 10, 2008, 10:41:50 AM »
Hi, I just registered. I used to watch anime alot, but not so much lately. Anyways, when I saw this topic, I felt that I had to say something.

When I first saw Code Geass R1, I thought it had great potential. The characters were deep and complex. The storyline was exciting and compelling to watch and it always had the feeling that there was a much bigger picture and when it was revealed, it would just blow us away and we'd say "what an amazing plot! All that suspense and waiting was really worth it!" And the cliffhanger at the end of R1 made it even more compelling to watch it. But R2 just makes certain characters more annoying, makes the good characters dull, and doesn't really develop any of its characters. It bombards us with fan service which can get very annoying and creates a handful of super mechs that could destroy entire armies by themselves. I noticed it going downhill after a few episodes of seeing the Knights of Round (who aren't really that special), some weird plot holes, excessive fan service, Shirley's annoying infatuation with Lelouch which is supposedly "love" which now that I think about it was always annoying, and the fact that C.C and Kallen are always half-naked around Lelouch which just makes the show cliche and gives it a very shallow feeling, cheapening it. But I kept waiting for that one episode that would make sense of it all and turn the series around. And I thought it was episode 20, where Lelouch traps himself with his father, that was going to be the climax : the shocking truth would be revealed and the epic battle would begin. But boy was I wrong because that was actually the lowest point of the series, probably the worst episode ever! Charles and Marianne's intentions don't even make sense nor meet our expectations. It was like "that's it!??! That's the big picture??". And at the end when Suzaku joins up with him which is absurd, they are in school uniforms!! How cliche is that?! The series was just a huge letdown for me. I didn't get the masterfully crafted storyline I was waiting for and I ended up hating every single character in the show except Diethard who has always been my favorite.

Offline AC

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #176 on: November 11, 2008, 02:19:10 AM »
Hi, welcome to NHRW.

Erm... I always thought that Kallen's half-naked nature is one of the best aspects of Code Geass R2. Yeah, it serves no purpose to the show but it's legendary (may I say this?). I won't forget this for a very long time. Other than that, Code Geass R2 is a disappointment for trying too hard to be great by putting more of everything from R1. Some of the R1 plot devices are tolerable but the ones in R2 are just plain ridiculous.

Offline AH

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Re: Code Geass R2
« Reply #177 on: November 15, 2008, 04:59:00 PM »
It's funny you would say that because I actually felt like registering to provide a dissenting opinion, though it may come off as a rant. If it helps, I am currently watching Tytania, of all things, and am glad that show won't really divide its particular audience, as relatively small as it is. This won't surprise a couple of people, I'm sure, but most won't care either way.

I'll be honest and get a few basics out of the way. I think Code Geass is very entertaining and has some interesting elements, but it was never that great. Code Geass has always been ridiculous, it's always pandered too much, the writing was very uneven and looser than it should have been, the cast was too large...I could go on, but is a full list even necessary? The first season gets, if you really want to push it, a weak 8/10. Probably closer to a strong 7/10, to be strict, but still not to the point of being some kind of masterpiece.

Many problems were already there, from a purely (or exclusively) critical perspective. Taking it seriously in whole or in part requires a high suspension of disbelief. The more cynical you are, the less you're probably going to enjoy it. I don't think that principle significantly changed during the second season. It was just tested more frequently and magnified by the circumstances.

Maybe too many people placed the first series in a pedestal that was never really there. When faced with an inferior sequel that dared to go against popular expectations in ways both good and bad, viewers became far more reactionary and unpleasable in the process. Others were already only partially tolerant of it all and lost what little patience they had. Something like that.

For me, there was some form of amusement in watching the Internet meltdown week after week but ironically...that wasn't how I felt. I was having fun with the show, with its serious and ridiculous sides, not with the external memes. Frankly, for all of R2's flaws and questionable staff decisions, I really do think the series was enjoyable and, dare I say, even under-appreciated as a result of the relentless bashing it has suffered. Which still doesn't make it great, oh certainly not, but far from the unredeemable disaster others have described. I'd say R2 gets a strong 6/10 or a weak 7/10, more or less.

I can agree with a number of the more common complaints (say, an excessively large cast of secondary/tertiary characters without enough development and noticeable pacing issues which weren't helped by an increasing number of plot twists) but without going into total overkill mode and being unable to acknowledge any positives at all.

For instance, I actually liked how several important characters, obviously including Lelouch himself, were handled. No, I didn't find their actions "annoying" or "stupid" even if my own personal desires (what I originally wanted to see) were different. I question the execution of certain plot points, but that doesn't mean they are always totally gratuitous and unexplainable. The final arc took quite a few risks by heading in an unexpected direction, to be sure, but it wasn't what I'd call "senseless". I do feel somewhat cheated by a few of the unanswered Geass-related questions, but the ending as a whole leaves me fairly satisfied and not angry.

And for the record, as far as fanservice goes....it may be because I am an unashamed viewer of considerably more risqué or frankly explicit materials, but the fanservice doesn't really jump at me like some huge positive or negative. It's just there, no big deal. Admittedly, others may have different tastes and tolerances.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2008, 06:25:43 PM by AH »
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