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The Nihon Review Forum

December 11, 2017, 05:51:15 PM
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Author Topic: The two newest reviews  (Read 9402 times)

Offline TypicalIdiotFan

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The two newest reviews
« on: March 10, 2008, 05:54:18 PM »
There's no way Code-E is a 0.  Even if you hated it, and having watched it myself it's pretty ****ing bad, it's not the worst anime on the planet, which is what a 0 would entail.  Cowboy Bebop is a great anime, but not a 10.  10 would imply that there is absolutely nothing wrong with it, and as much as I love Bebop, there's still flaws there.

I am very aware of our grading scale, and I've never agreed with it.  To me a 10 cannot ever be achieved.  Likewise, there's no such thing as a total 0.
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Offline Kavik Ryx

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Re: The two newest reviews
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2008, 06:33:50 PM »
Initially, I was going to give Bebop a 9. It's a favorite of mine, but if I wouldn't give Zeta Gundam or Evangelion a 10, I thought I should be fair. However, then I saw Planetes an Infinite Ryvius, which I would give 10s, and then decided to chose ratings on a series to series basis. Also it occurred to me that it would be cruel to give Bebop anything lower than a 10.

To me, a 0 and a 10 do not mean perfect or abysmal quality. A 10 would imply that not only is it well executed in just about every sense, but has a reason for it to be remembered as something more. I don't know what I would consider 0 since I have yet to see an anime that would make me even think of giving that rating. I don't know what royal crown's descision to give a zero instead of a one was; however, I'm guessing that he hated every moment with a passion.

This summer; however, I intend on finding the meaning of abysmal anime, scouting out for the worst titles I can find, but that's a few months away at this point.

Offline Akira

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Re: The two newest reviews
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2008, 08:20:47 PM »
A rating reform is in need, seriously. These ratings are too vague.

...and I have no say in this.

*Gets back to work*
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Offline C0MPL3X

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Re: The two newest reviews
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2008, 08:37:54 PM »
Not only do reviewers' opinions on anime varies, even their views on what the number should represent varies, of course the rating system is not to be taken seriously. I know this sounds like a broken record, but read the review and ignore the numbers. Kavik could put 9 instead of 10, and Royal Crown 3 instead of 0 and no one would care.

...or not

Offline Sorrow-kun

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Re: The two newest reviews
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2008, 08:46:37 PM »
Hey, I agree with Akira and TIF, there are serious problems with the rating system, and I've always thought that the ten point system was too coarse and too vague, but trying to change it would be a nightmare.  I, for one, have always wanted to option of having a 1/2 scale (eg 5 1/2, 6 1/2, etc, etc), but implementing it would mean all our reviews would have to be re-rated, and then there are the reviews of ex-reviewers to consider.  Not worth the effort, IMO.

As for the two latest reviews, yeah, I kinda agree Bebop is more a "9" than a "10" anime, but it's Kavik Ryx's review, and if he's comfortable with the idea of Bebop being "As Good As It Gets" as the rating suggests (there is no 'perfect' anime or film or album, which is why Tamashii was very careful not to choose the word "perfect" for the rating), then that's his decision.  The onus on him then is to justify why he thinks that in his review, and then defend his opinion where need be.

Similarly, I made sure that royal crown knew what his rating meant before the review went up, and that there was no other alternative possible, and he stated that was the case.  He was convinced that giving the title any other rating wouldn't be fair, and gave his reasons in his review.  Now the onus is on him to defend his opinion.

Yes, there'll always be the problem that the numbers mean different things for different people, but the explanations that go along with those numbers should minimize that to some extent.  (I seriously wish more people would read that FAQ).  There'll always be a bit of inconsistency, but if the reviewers are happy to defend their opinion, that's all I can ask of them.

Offline royal crown

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Re: The two newest reviews
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2008, 08:49:11 PM »
Here's the thing about Code-E. DBZ didn't take itself seriously - it understood, especially in the later episodes (via parodies, constant cuts to comedic relief, etc), that it was a crappy anime, and it was basically out to keep making money. Even Tekken didn't really take itself too seriously, as it had a shoestring budget and was again, out to make money. Shuffle! Memories was damn bad, but at least it was a fanservice run, and it knew it pretty well. Does this excuse those anime? No. But at the same time, it really stands out to me when an anime can be done this poorly and still manage to act as if it was anywhere even close to serious. That's what pisses me off about it so much. It really was looking like a 4 until it just collapsed at the end. It just failed. Miserably. It didn't even attempt to solve anything, it didn't even try. Hell, it was worse than Kare Kano in regards to the awful, awful ending. Worse than Mai Hime. Worse than anything I can conceive of, because they literally gave up. And not in the Soprano's way. No. They thought "Hey guys, this is a good ending."

I didn't really think any of the above fit in the context of a review, but that's pretty much the summation of why I believe Code-E deserves a zero, FWIW. Frankly, to me anyway, a zero is comparative, insofar as I look at the anime that I've watched and mentally rated, and decide whether or not Code-E deserves a higher or lower review. I just can't think of any legitimate anime that is worse than Code-E. Perhaps that will change in the future, and perhaps then I will write another "zero" review explicating why it tops Code-E as the worst. But that's an unlikely scenario.

Offline Kavik Ryx

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Re: The two newest reviews
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2008, 08:07:32 AM »
This might just be cultural guilt slipping in, but after a lot of thought, I may have to lower my Bebop review down to a 9. It's an excellent series with a universal appeal; however, it almost seems like it would look better with a 9 rating instead.

Offline Kurier

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Re: The two newest reviews
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2008, 09:21:15 AM »
Oh hell. There is only one true way to grade: "This Sucks" or "This is Good." Everything else is an excercise in pointless number crunching.

AA once had a thread for people to disagree with reviews and that's where my stupidest post ever once lived. I argued that Grave of the Fireflies deserved a 100% because I thought it was good. In retrospect, it didn't deserve a percentage at all. It deserved for people to watch it and Kain's review would make people do that because he said it was good.

I'm sure TIF knows this, but I have to say it. If you read a review and the number it recieved (or the number of stars, thumbs up, erect dicks) is what you focus on, then you're doing a great disservice to the reviewer. Don't pay attention to the number they gave it, pay attention to what they said about it.
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Offline TypicalIdiotFan

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Re: The two newest reviews
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2008, 03:11:35 PM »
Quote
I'm sure TIF knows this, but I have to say it. If you read a review and the number it recieved (or the number of stars, thumbs up, erect dicks) is what you focus on, then you're doing a great disservice to the reviewer. Don't pay attention to the number they gave it, pay attention to what they said about it.

I know you're trying to say the score isn't important, but it is.  To us, those of us who do the reviews, we do read the reviews and ignore the score.  However, the score is not only a reflection of the review itself (you cant give something a 1 if you wrote a rave review, right?), but also the quick and dirty way that a passerby would think of the show.

Let's face it, we write good reviews, but there are people who don't read them or skim through them without much attention.  The score then becomes all those people need to determine whether an anime is good or not.

To be honest, I'm usually with you.  To me the anime is either good (thus collectable on domestic DVDs here and showable to my friends and family) or bad (just watching my torrents) and that's it.  It's really a black and white issue with me.  That isn't to say that I don't recognize the merits of some of these crap anime; that someone else might get something out of it that I didn't.  But I'M not gonna buy the damn thing.
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Offline AC

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Re: The two newest reviews
« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2008, 06:24:39 AM »
You see, this is the reason why I would never rate an anime or a live-action a '10' or a '0'. Even though it says 'As Good As It Gets', the score '10' always carries the notion that it's perfect is almost every aspect. If one gets a 10/10 for the test, it means the person did everything right, right?

Though I say that I tend to avoid rating with the scores, it doesn't mean that the rating system needs to be reviewed. In fact, the reason why I opt for NHRW over AA to be a reviewer is the rating system. Even I would have a headache trying to think the score for an anime on a 100% rating scale. This 'ambiguity' of scores is what immediately set the readers to see how good an anime is in a nutshell.

Take for instance, Monster and Mushishi. Both are rated '9' and I think that it's better it stays that way. I personally won't like it if I have to give both the exact score or a different one because each is better or worse than the other in many ways.

As for KR's review on Cowboy Bebop, if he really feels comfortable about the scores, then let it be. It's all the more reason for the readers to actually take the time to read why it carries that score... although I must admit that it should be given just a '9'.

Offline zzeroparticle

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Re: The two newest reviews
« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2008, 01:55:07 PM »
This is why I prefer taking the whole numbers deal out of the equation completely and instead just stick to a verbal scale.  It should be easy to implement since you're already doing that sort of thing with words like "Awesome," "Fantastic," and "As Good As It Gets" to accompany the actual score.  In doing this, you'd put less of an emphasis on the score and more emphasis on how the reviewer feels about the series being reviewed.  It also avoids the pitfall of people who are too lazy to read the Rating Scale Guide.

And for the record, if there's a series that I think deserves a "As Good As It Gets," Monster would definitely be it.

Offline Sorrow-kun

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Re: The two newest reviews
« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2008, 02:53:11 PM »
I almost gave Monster a top rating.  I would have, but I didn't think the ending was as epic as the rest of the series, even if it was wonderfully ironic.  That one gave me reason to think hard about it.  It's another example of a series I would love to have a 1/2 rating scale for.

Offline royal crown

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Re: The two newest reviews
« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2008, 04:48:01 PM »
Taking numbers out of the equation does work pretty well IMO. It would require a revision, but not a revaluation, because the number corresponds to some sort of descriptive phrase (ex: "good"). The problem is that there is a bit of obfuscation with regards to the 8-9 range and 2-1 range. It's not really explicit that "awesome" is necessarily worse than "fantastic," or that "horrible" is better than "disgusting." That being said, I think it's a pretty good idea, though I'm not sure if we're really ready to deal with that kind of an overhaul.

Offline Akira

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Re: The two newest reviews
« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2008, 05:39:43 PM »
That, and there's cultural bias. Since 70% is automatically registered as a fail in my brain, my KnJ review originally gave it a 7, until I went back and read the actual criterion for recieving a 7. I prefer a decimal rating system, but that gets convoluted really quickly.
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Offline zzeroparticle

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Re: The two newest reviews
« Reply #14 on: March 12, 2008, 11:46:01 PM »
Quote from: royal crown
The problem is that there is a bit of obfuscation with regards to the 8-9 range and 2-1 range. It's not really explicit that "awesome" is necessarily worse than "fantastic," or that "horrible" is better than "disgusting." That being said, I think it's a pretty good idea, though I'm not sure if we're really ready to deal with that kind of an overhaul.
It's one reason why I tend to favor ANN's rating system for their anime database.  I'd say that for the most part, their system manages to avoid the ambiguity that the current descriptors might cause.
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