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Author Topic: Engrish and Why It Makes Japanese Music Retarded  (Read 18494 times)

Offline Tamashii

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Engrish and Why It Makes Japanese Music Retarded
« on: January 22, 2006, 06:20:26 PM »
All right, so you guys know Engrish right? A.k.a. the bastardization of English by Japanese fools. Let's first get the concept down before we proceed to the bashing. Engrish was given its name because the Japanese has a very strong tendency to mix the L's and R's (hence, Engrish). A good example is L'arc-en-Ciel in the their song "Round and Round." Instead of singing "Round and Round" they sing "Lound and Lound." This oddity was also expressed by the movie Lost in Translation, where John (Giovanni Ribisi) complains, "And instead of saying Rock and Roll! they say Lock n Loll."

The origins of this issue is probably complex. I don't know it. But how hard is to say "Round and Round!" For god's sake! Think about this: the Japanese have plenty of words they pronounce with R's and with L's. I think the real issue stems from the lack of words that have L's in them, or words with L's starting it.

Music is almost destroyed when we hear Engrish, especially unbearably retarded Engrish. It's tolerable at small doses, but when it's blatant, loud, and repetitive, I start machine-gunning children, e.g. "LOUND AND LOUND!!!" Holy sh*t.

Offline Kurier

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Engrish and Why It Makes Japanese Music Retarded
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2006, 07:27:50 PM »
*Nod* *Nod*

I was warned by a teacher "When you are in Japan, I wouldn't really worry about speaking Japanese to teenagers and some adults. They will try speaking english to you, but it won't come out too well. Just don't let it get to you. Because you will hear it a lot."

I try to avoid songs like "Round and Round" as much as I can, because it does get to me.

Wait, Why can't L'arc~en~Ciel sing "Round and Round" right? Don't they sing "Ready, Steady, Go" with all their R's and L's?
I fell off the wagon and now I can't stop.

Offline Kuma

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Engrish and Why It Makes Japanese Music Retarded
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2006, 09:03:42 PM »
I still like how in the Hellsing manga Kouta Hirano has Tlench Coat Mafia written in the background as grafitti in one of his panels.

Off topic, sorry :)

Offline DarkKanti

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Engrish and Why It Makes Japanese Music Retarded
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2006, 12:24:50 AM »
Ha!  It's not quite off topic Kuma.  Pretty funny though.

I've never really been too bothered by the who Engrish thing.  In fact, I find it to be kind of funny alot of the times.  I mean watch Beck.  Whenever they were speaking English I couldn't help but to laugh.  And Koyuki's singing sounded like a really talented deaf kid was singing.  I still love the soundtrack though.

The Nihon Review Presents 2006: A Year in Review

Offline Tamashii

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Engrish and Why It Makes Japanese Music Retarded
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2006, 08:42:55 AM »
LOL, nice Kuma.

Kurier: Their english has improved over time. That's a very recent song while "Round and Round" was written in 1996. They wanted to be taken seriously in the American market (hence their release of Smile), so they had to fix up their accent.

Offline dheu

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Engrish and Why It Makes Japanese Music Retarded
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2006, 10:47:36 PM »
Quote from: Tamashii
The origins of this issue is probably complex. I don't know it. But how hard is to say "Round and Round!" For god's sake! Think about this: the Japanese have plenty of words they pronounce with R's and with L's. I think the real issue stems from the lack of words that have L's in them, or words with L's starting it.
.... And how hard is it for a non-native speaker to pronounce Mandarin Chinese correctly?
 
The Japanese just don't have a hard "R" sound in their language.  They don't really have an "L" sound either; what they have is a combination of the two, a sort of soft "R".  And when you grow up speaking a certain sound, it's a tad bit hard to change the way you speak overnight in order to be able to pronounce a foreign language correctly.  It takes time and lots of practice.
 
Unless what you really don't like is them using English words instead of Japanese when they can't speak English very well.  Which, of course, is done for the "coolness" factor over in Japan, but doesn't sound so cool for us when we have to look up the lyrics just to find out they're actually speaking English.
 
Most of the time I don't mind it.  Sometimes it does sound silly.  And some bands should never try English again.  But what can you do?

Offline Tamashii

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Engrish and Why It Makes Japanese Music Retarded
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2006, 03:22:08 AM »
I had no idea that the Japanese had a "soft R." Now that you think about it, that's quite interesting. I still hear a very solid "R" sound in many names, though, so I'm not sold yet.

I've never thought about the Japanese handicap in such a fashion, one does have to consider how the Japanese feel about this situation.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2006, 03:25:23 AM by Tamashii »

Offline dheu

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Engrish and Why It Makes Japanese Music Retarded
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2006, 07:41:04 AM »
Quote from: Tamashii
I've never thought about the Japanese handicap in such a fashion, one does have to consider how the Japanese feel about this situation.
:D  I wonder if they consider it a handicap.
 
Sorry if my post seemed a bit abrupt.  I've been studying Japanese for so long that sometimes I forget that not everyone knows little factoids like that.

Offline Tamashii

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Engrish and Why It Makes Japanese Music Retarded
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2006, 11:53:07 AM »
It's a handicap in the fluent English speaker's perspective because it seems so natural to us: how can R's and L's be mixed? Accents are slightly different as they are more complex, so for example, the Chinese might not be so amazed at our inability to speak any of their tongues (on a generalization)...or maybe they are. Being Vietnamese, I am not amazed when I see Americans struggling to pronounce our accents. I see it as an understandable truth, the English language is just so different--it's an obvious observation. But L's and R's? One would have to know the little bits (the factoids ;) ) to know why the L's and R's are hard to separate.

How fluent are you in Japanese? :D
« Last Edit: January 29, 2006, 11:55:14 AM by Tamashii »

Offline dheu

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Engrish and Why It Makes Japanese Music Retarded
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2006, 07:56:38 PM »
Nowhere near as fluent as I want to be.  My vocabulary's pretty limited, but I can get the gist of what's being said.  Someday I will be fluent.  I just don't have the time right now to brush up my skills.

Offline sevenzig

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Re: Engrish and Why It Makes Japanese Music Retarded
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2006, 11:44:52 AM »
I'd say that "engrish" is why Kurier doesn't like "Lithium Flower." But it really doesn't bother me when I'm listening to music. Granted I don't listen to much J-Music [ I limit myself to Kajiura Yuki ] But what I do hear never rubs me the wrong way. I sometimes chuckle when I hear them do the "LOUND AND LOUND" thing because it's humorous.

Rike menz?

Offline Tamashii

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Re: Engrish and Why It Makes Japanese Music Retarded
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2006, 02:36:41 PM »
Lithium Flower was sung by an American who spoke fluent English. You're nuts.

Offline Sara

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Re: Engrish and Why It Makes Japanese Music Retarded
« Reply #12 on: March 14, 2006, 06:17:54 PM »
Engrish is just one of those things that makes Japan and it's weird ass stuff so much more interesting. It's just one of those things we have to deal with.

 
The factoids do help to understand the casual inablity to speak these words but I could easily say that if an American felt the need to say certain words in Japanese or Chinese we would sound just like them. It's simply a language barrier that unfortunatly is to high to be brought down.

Offline Kuma

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Re: Engrish and Why It Makes Japanese Music Retarded
« Reply #13 on: March 14, 2006, 06:55:08 PM »
The Japanese "R" sounds like about 35% American "L," plus about 65% American "R" and comes out sounding like a very soft "D."  When saying it you move your mouth like you're making a hard "D" sound, only you don't click your tongue off the roof of your mouth.  Instead you push your tongue forward (as if you had clicked it).

That's my non-expert, 4 semesters, 2 cents contribution to the discussion.

Offline Tamashii

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Re: Engrish and Why It Makes Japanese Music Retarded
« Reply #14 on: March 14, 2006, 09:02:56 PM »
Strange...I cannot emulate such motions.
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