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Author Topic: RPGs  (Read 6675 times)

Offline ReadorDie

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« on: October 13, 2005, 08:05:45 PM »
Discuss and express your opinion on RPGs.

Final Fantasy: Good, ranging from just-a-hair-above-mediocre(X) to excellent(VIII, TA).  Usually overrated.  X's voice acting was painful with the exception of Auron, Rikku, and Lulu.  Avoid the rabid fanbase if possible. Score: 7.5

Koudelka/Shadow Hearts: Excellent, wonderfully off-color.  Koudelka and Shadow Hearts Covenant have wonderful graphics, Shadow Hearts's...don't fare quite as well.  All of the have offbeat, fun characters and plots.  Enjoyable, but many will lose patience with Koudelka and the first SH.  Voice acting is usually good, though the scripting is so offbeat I'm not surprised it sounds awkward at times. Score: 9

Xenosaga: Crafts a wonderful world and story.  Characters are interesting, but development is kept to a base minimum, and many are just plot devices (Canaan, anyone?).  Voice acting is done adequately, but its nothing amazing.  Battle system is borderline-tactical in the first one, and way-too-tactical in the second.  THe plotline should keep you playing.  Score: 8

Baten Kaitos: Wonderfully storybookish tale.  Crafts an interesting tale, with extremely boring characters and horrid voice acting (Savyna and Mizuti are exceptions from both rules).  The gameplay mechanic and plotline(both of which are rather sweeping) should keep you playing, as should the gorgeous graphics and beautiful score.  Score: 8

Tales of Symphonia: Cleche plotline.  REALLY cleche plotline.  You'll see the 'twists' (which are really more of a meander) coming a mile away.  Characters are either completely cleche (Colette, Lloyd) or daringly original (Raine, Regal).  Battle system is the best I've ever had the joy of playing, complex but not too much so that you're confused.  Graphics and music are pretty, but nothing groundbreaking.  Score: 8.5

Offline AnimeGenesis

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« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2005, 02:00:13 AM »
Tales of Symphonia (Gamecube)- Good story with a few twists. Good variety of characters and enemies. The graphic style and music are probably the best part of the game. It has a good replay factor, that coupled with over 40-60hours of gameplay means this game will last. -9

Skies of arcadia legends (Gamecube)- Another story which is predictable (but most RPGs have that, so i'm not putting that against it). Graphics are a bit dated (i played the gamecube version). The dreamcast graphics do the job though. The 80hours of gameplay is one of the selling points of the game. Although one thing i don't like abou the game is the amount of random battles. By the time you complete the game, you'll never want to to see another random battle again!- 7.5

Secret of Evermore (SNES)- one of my first RPGs, but still a firm favourite, whenever the revolution comes out, i will download that game into it. The story really isn't cleched, as it was during the 16-bit era. The worlds are nice and varied, and make sure you don't get bored. The graphics are nice for the time. The bosses are challenging if you don't work for it. One of the best features is your dog sidekick, which changes form depending on the world you're in.- 8.5/10


Thanks to DarkKanti for the Sig!

Offline Tamashii

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« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2005, 02:52:52 PM »
A 7.5 for Final Fantasy? VIII is awesome? o.O

I'll try to analyze most of the FF's that I've played and see if I can come up with a final rating...

FF4 - Good, but I've never finished it. From what I've seen, it's an 7.
FF6 - Great game. A lot of fun, colorful characters, and good story. 9.
FF7 - Awesome, some great characters and a solid plot. 8.
FF8 - Decent, awkward "Draw" system, weak characters. (memories a little fuzzy, though). 6.
FF9 - Excellent. I liked it a lot, some of the best characters I've seen in a video game. The battle system is a little unsatisfying. 9.
FF10 - Fun and creative. Decent story and characters. 7.

Hmm...I'd say an 8.5. That's not an average. Let's hope FF12 is a 10...though that's not happening.

Offline ReadorDie

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« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2005, 03:42:43 PM »
Quote from: Tamashii

FF7 - ...great characters.... 8.
FF8 - ...weak characters.... 6.


You're confusing me.  FF7 had the weakest characters in any game I've ever played.  Something is terrably, terrably wrong when the character with the most backstory is optional(Vincent).  I'm not saying 8's characters were amazing, but they were leaps and bounds ahead of 7's.

Offline Kuma

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« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2005, 05:29:19 PM »
Xenosaga I and II:  Great voice acting, likeable and deep characters, deep plot, intersting religious motif, amazing battles, above average, although limited in number music, sweet cutscenes.  It's like watching an awesome anime and playing an awesome RPG at the same time.  Points for having the balls to continue a story through six games.  Second game is a little short though 9.5/10

Breath of Fire
I:  Solid game, a few creative boss fights, great puzzles and dungeons 8/10
II:  Best in the series, good plot, good characters, great story with twists and tear-jerker moments.  One of the best RPG endings ever.  9/10
III:  Haven't finished yet.  Not creative at all except for the dragon splicings.  Standard RPG plot, mediocre combat.  5/10

I hear it only gets worse from there.

Tales of Symphonia:  So much to do!  Good voice acting, interesting characters, amazing battle system, good plot, side quests galore not to mention character relationships.  Could have benefited from some cutscenes instead of those random events on the map.  A lot of good ideas in this game.  9/10

Baten Kaitos:  Stereotypical plot with one awesome twist.  Most characters are typical and uninteresting, phenomenal graphics, addictingly fun battle system, magnus were a good idea.  Guardian spirit idea doesn't reach full potential.  6.5/10

FF10:  Good characters, awesome music, good graphics, sweet character designs, OK plot, good battles (I loved the ability to switch out characters) Sphere grid was intimidating, but a good system.  6.5/10

FF is such a marketing gimmick.  A challenge for Square, if they are so confidant in the quality of the FF games, take the next would-be FF game and release it with a different title.  See if it sells half as many copies as it would have otherwise.

Offline Skywēl

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« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2005, 07:11:06 PM »
Quote from: ReadorDie
You're confusing me.  FF7 had the weakest characters in any game I've ever played.  Something is terrably, terrably wrong when the character with the most backstory is optional(Vincent).  I'm not saying 8's characters were amazing, but they were leaps and bounds ahead of 7's.

Vincent did indeed have a backstory, and a good one at that. However, I don't see how he had more than, oh say, Cloud.

By the way, it's "cliché".

Since I don't really play RPGs (Ironically, I have a bunch of ROMs on my computer, I just have never finished them), I'll say this about Final Fantasy:

Final Fantasy VII (8.5-8.75) > [Insert random good stuff that would warrant an 8.0-8.5] > Final Fantasy X (voice acting sucked, good graphics, mediocre characters, but an innovative levelling and battle system. 6.75) > Final Fantasy VIII (What the damn? 6.0. Seifer and Laguna were pretty cool though.)

Final Fantasy Tactics kicks absolute ass. 8.5+ ish.

I have completed several other RPGs though, but I'll give my opinion of them in a different post so I can raise my abysmally-low post count.
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Offline Tamashii

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« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2005, 12:16:03 AM »
Quote from: ReadorDie
You're confusing me.  FF7 had the weakest characters in any game I've ever played.  Something is terrably, terrably wrong when the character with the most backstory is optional(Vincent).  I'm not saying 8's characters were amazing, but they were leaps and bounds ahead of 7's.


Pfffftttt. I think not.

I'm not saying that all the characters in FF7 were great. But if you're going to correlate "having background" with "being good", you're just being ignorant. There are characters that need background and there are characters that do not. In my opinion, Cloud's background--involved with Shinra, was once elite troop, has joined mercenary group, Tifa is an old friend, careless--was plenty. There was some more as the story went along, but the point is that you do not need characters with ten page scripts of what they did in their childhood, teenage years, and early 20's. Sometimes too much background is no good. You're also forgetting about everything that's been done when you played the characters. How can you deny the actual development of the characters (aka "changing") throughout the story?

All the characters changed, no matter how little, how unsatisfying it was, they had changed. Yuffie is probably the one who developed least, having also a very weak background. Maybe it's because she was the hardest secret character to get. Cait Sith also has nearly zero background and when you get to know his secret, it's even worse because now you're asking, "What about Reeve?". Cid had decent background with his personality making up for a lot. In other words, he wasn't an awesome character yet he wasn't a bad character. Barret was an okay character. You could definitely see his personality. However, when the final stages of the game came rolling in, you weren't quite sure how his character was going to finish off. I felt that he was just pushed aside for much too long and it became a story about Tifa and Cloud, instead, and hence he was almost "forgotten". Red XIII was a good character, though I wish that he had played a larger role in the overall story.

I have a serious problem with Aeris. What happened to her in disc One did not bulge me much, however shocking it was. She was just not as developed as she should have been. All I got from her personality is this "nice" person. In her case, some more background would have gone a long way.

I'd have to say that it was Cloud, Tifa, and Sephiroth that really carried the game. Everyone else gave little pushes.

I don't clearly remember FF8 since it has been over 5 years since I last played it. Some characters are just like, "Quistis?! Who?!! Zell?! What's that?" to me--I honestly cannot recall their roles in the story, let alone some background (besides "teacher" and "best friend", respectively). I have to play it again to make a final conclusion.

Offline ReadorDie

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« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2005, 08:40:00 PM »
Its true, background does NOT amount to a deep character.  However, I need to feel like I know a character before I even come close to caring about them.  Sephiroth made no sense (he was psychotic because experaments were done on his mother WHO HE NEVER MET?), but was interesting.  Tifa was just bland.  Cloud was a complete stereotype of the 'Badass Guy'.  Yuffie was...Yuffie.  Aeris you didn't get to know well but she gets axed (more literally that figuratively) less than halfway through.  Barret was just annoying.  Truly.  I wanted him to die.  I let him do so several times, in fact.  Cid, Red XIII, and Vincent made the game playable.

For me to care about a character they need to NOT be complete cleches and I actually have to feel like I know them.

Take Koudelka for instance.  She was a complete bitch, if I didn't feel like I knew her so well I would have left that game feeling like I hated her.  Instead, she's one of my favorites because she has backstory, heart, and originality.  Something nearly everyone from FFVII lacks.

Offline Sorrow-kun

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« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2005, 01:13:40 AM »
Never mind the characters.  The reason I disliked FFVIII so much was that the gameplay was just terrible.  Not only was the "draw" system overly confusing, convoluted and just simply awkward, it rewarded the player for tediously prolonging fights and playing ultra-conservatively with magic.  I mean, fair enough, in RPGs you have to put up with a crapload of one-sided fights, simply to level up.  What I don't like is when these fights are longer than they have to be.  The most efficient way to collect spells,  I found, was to horde every time I found a new one.  So, I'd near kill whatever enemy I was up again, so it'd no longer be a threat, and just sit there and draw until I'd gotten 100 of that spell for everyone.  Now, I don't know about you, but I found this boring gameplay.  And don't give me that "you didn't have to play it that way lol" crap, that was the most efficient way to play the battle system.  I play to win, not to have fun.  If the gameplay can't merge the two into the same thing, it's failed.

That's my big gripe with FFVIII.  I couldn't care less if the characters were as fascinating and colourful as the Kings of Prussia, if the gameplay doesn't deliver, it's a crappy game.

Offline ReadorDie

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« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2005, 03:51:19 PM »
But in truth, you DID play like an idiot.  What I did was have two characters actually fighting and another drawing.  That kept your characters with a reasonable amount of magic.  Also, the junction system was far from convolouted if you actually payed attention to the tutorials, and it allows you to customize your characters to an unmatched extent if used correctly(read: NOT LIKE AN IDIOT).

Offline Tamashii

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« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2005, 06:26:07 PM »
The drawing system has got to be the most awkward system that Square's made. Though it does play in interestingly with the Junction system, Drawing itself is annoying. Also, just the concept of absorbing magic like that is, although unique, quite ludicrous. Like Sorrow said, it forces you to play conservative if you want the maximized effects for the Junction. I think what SK did was effective at getting as much magic as possible in one shot, and that is not playing like an idiot. Nonetheless, you cannot deny that the Draw system sufficiently slows down battles and makes for extremely awkward and boring gameplay.

Offline ReadorDie

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« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2005, 01:50:14 PM »
Whatever, I'm obviously not going to sway to (and want to revive this thread).  Let's get off the topic of FF(where all RPG conversations inevitably lead) and onto something else.

What is your favorite battle system and why?

Offline Tamashii

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« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2005, 04:49:54 PM »
Chrono Trigger. And hopefully FF12 soon since it looks like they're incorporating something similar. Why do I like it? Simple: it's creative. It was a first and it is still the best.

Offline ReadorDie

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« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2005, 06:31:24 PM »
I don't really have a favorite.  Tales of Symphonia's was fast-paced and intricate.  Baten Kaitos and the Shadow Hearts games both were turn based, but kept you on your toes.  Baten's also held some relevance to the plotline; 'Magnus' was a work of genious.  Xenosaga Episode 1's system also had its charms, I've never seen a non-tactical game be so in-depth.  Episode 2's failed all around, however.

Offline AnimeGenesis

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« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2005, 01:37:09 AM »
My favourite battle system would have to be Tales of Symphonia, because its fast paced and also gets rid of the Random battle. Although there will always be a place in my heart for the "Secret of Mana" style of battling from the 16-bit era.


Thanks to DarkKanti for the Sig!

Offline Sorrow-kun

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« Reply #15 on: November 02, 2005, 04:38:14 AM »
Chrono Trigger.  Lack of random encounters, and combo system introduces a great element of gameplay and a massive variety of different spells and abilities.

FFT/TA is good as well.

Offline DarkKanti

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« Reply #16 on: November 02, 2005, 01:01:19 PM »
Chrono Triggere was easily my favorite battle system (for reasons that were already given in this thread).  But, so I won't sound redundant, I'll mention some others I enjoyed.  La Pucelle Tactis was a fun and simple tactics RPG with an eassy to use battle system that delivered hours of fun.  Disgaea (its sequel) was good as well, but of the two I enjoyed fighting in La Pucelle better.  I found the materia system in FFVII to be one of the most fun ways of leveling your magic up in a while.  It may not be considered the battle system, but I feel its closely enough related to garner a mention.  I would also like to say, for as much crap as FFX-2 gets, I found it to have an excellent battle system and I had alot more fun playing it then I did FFX.  X's battle system was much too slow for my tastes, while X-2 kicked things into overdrive with a much more fluid time based battle system.

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