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October 23, 2017, 06:10:13 AM
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Author Topic: Dragon Ball Super  (Read 2960 times)

Offline TypicalIdiotFan

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Re: Dragon Ball Super
« Reply #45 on: July 10, 2017, 09:09:54 PM »
But there are limits.  The anime isn't going to permanently kill off characters, while the manga probably could.  Just look at the differences in how certain arcs have been handled.  I'm not saying Toyotaro's versions are better, but they seem to take more risks (read: more bullshit).  The anime is playing it about as safe and milquetoast as can possibly be.  So it can't have U9 being big players when they're not part of the grand scheme of Toriyama's design.

I would wager even money that at some point during this ToP, Goku does the 'perfect Blue' thing he did in the manga Zamasu arc rather than the 10x Kaioken + Blue.  Both of them are basically Goku's new "max power", the thing that sets him apart from Vegeta, and all his rivals, but the anime doesn't appear to know what the **** to do with power creeps and borrows a lot more from the manga than the other way around.  Goku is also going to "hakai" someone here in this tournament.
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Offline ckarasu

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Re: Dragon Ball Super
« Reply #46 on: July 11, 2017, 08:26:24 AM »
I honestly do lament the wasted screentime that was U9, but I'm not even sure if Toei or Toriyama is responsible for their jobbing. At the very least, Sidra took things well as he was consigned to oblivion. I'll give U9 that.

Goku cannot Hakai anyone in the tournament. No killing rule is in effect. Not sure WHY, since losers die anyway, but thems the breaks.

Offline gedata

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Re: Dragon Ball Super
« Reply #47 on: July 11, 2017, 03:43:42 PM »
To wit, not more than twenty episodes ago, U9's Trio De Dangers were a significantly larger threat to Goku, Gohan, and Buu than they are here.  In fact, Bergamo alone took on Super Saiyan Blue Goku and fought him rather well.

Goku only used SSBlue to end the fight with Bergamo quickly. He didn't really need it since he clearly had the dude on the ropes here as just a Super Saiyan. As for his ability to expand, it didn't end up being very useful before. While it might have helped clear out some jobbers, some of the tougher dudes like Goku would eventually take advantage of the huge cumbersome target that technique makes him. Still, an offhand mention of this would've made more sense since I can't tell if they forgot or not.

.

While people can excuse Goku's behavior as his typical childish innocence or powerlessness insofar as being in the face of the Gods, that doesn't excuse his overall behavior in this.  We don't know if Zen-Oh-Sama was really going to eliminate the other universes, and if he was, whether he was going to do it anytime soon.  To the ultimate God, what is a day, or an eon?  Maybe they do get erased some day, even if the rationale behind who stays and who goes is obnoxiously vague to the audience, and maybe by doing this he has given one of these universes a "fighting chance", but the reality is that instead of standing up and telling Zen-Oh-Sama, someone who apparently likes Goku and is willing to listen to him, that this is wrong, Goku goes along with it as if the ultimate God did him a favor.
I'd like to think that Goku might have wisened up a little around Zeno after seeing first hand how easy it is for him to annihilate Universes. All it took for Future Zeno to erase Trunk's future was for him to see few unpleasant clouds. Doing anything that would make him seem less cool like ask for mercy could ruin that goodwill easily.

Still, all Goku would have to do convince Zeno is to say that letting all the Universes remain would mean being able to hold the ToP again and make it a new Omniversal tradition.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2017, 03:59:27 PM by gedata »

Offline TypicalIdiotFan

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Re: Dragon Ball Super
« Reply #48 on: July 11, 2017, 08:34:55 PM »
I don't know.  Bergamo getting huge would, theoretically, make him heavier and harder to move, so pushing him off the platform would be tougher.  Or it would, but undoubtedly they could just Kamehameha + Final Flash him off because reasons anyway.
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Offline TypicalIdiotFan

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Re: Dragon Ball Super
« Reply #49 on: July 26, 2017, 01:22:05 AM »
100:

Okay, Berserk Kale was pretty badass.  I enjoyed watching her just plow through everybody, including tanking a Goku SSB Kamehameha like it wasn't even there.  That's the kind of shit that just gets you going.  Is Kale an interesting character?  Nope, but her becoming a real threat to everybody around her, up to and including herself by possibly accidentally killing someone while out of control, made her interesting.

Sadly it was all just a thing to make Jiren look like the ultimate high powered badass they had been building him up to be since the beginning of this arc.  Blargh.  I would have liked Kale to be the ultimate wild card in this, who could have pared down a bunch of the chaff to get to the final fighters to make the battles more interesting rather than chaotic.
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Offline TypicalIdiotFan

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Re: Dragon Ball Super
« Reply #50 on: August 05, 2017, 10:15:59 PM »
102:

Holy cow, the online reactions to this episode are ****ing amazing in a bad way.  Toei has not been particularly good at avoiding reusing animation for Dragon Ball Super (not that they haven't done this for almost all their works anyway), and Goku has been an imbecile before for letting people power up so he can enjoy fighting strong guys, but this is the only time where both are not only not worth complaining about, but actually appropriate.  Maybe most Dragon Ball fans have just never been exposed to much anime outside of this one and other shounen battle shit because their ignorance of certain things in this episode shows.  I've been waiting for this episode to come ever since they introduced Brianne back before the tournament started.  Once it was known that a "magical girl" parody was going to participate, I knew this shit was going to happen.  I know most participants here at NHRV are wiser than the average Dragon Ball fan, so I'll explain it for the dummies.

* Brianne and the other two girls are parodies of magical girls.  I'm sure you're familiar with Sailor Moon, and if you are, natch.  If you're not, go look it up.
* Magical girl anime are notorious for reused animations.  In fact, one of the more "fun" things about magical girl shows is when they decide to change the reused animations.  In the case of Sailor Moon, Usagi's transformation would change with each power up she got, usually once or twice a season depending on the circumstances.  Between those power ups, the entire... and I mean ENTIRE... transformation animation would play in each episode.  Occasionally they would do a hurry up or a mesh of her and the other senshi's transformations for time, but regardless, you were going to see the same shit each time.  This is why Helles (U2's GoD) talks about "ritual", because it practically is.  The magical girl transformation is pretty much a sacred rite of every magical girl.  Hell, even some atypical magical girls do this.  It is as much a trope as anything else.  As such, the animation is not going to be re-animated for every episode.  If they did that, they'd be out of money in days.  Animation also gets reused constantly for attacks, for character introductions, and for other nifty things that they just don't want to draw over and over again.
* Goku and everybody being patient with their transformations to complete is also a trope.  Toppo tries to point out that posing is justice, which is fine for Toppo to say because the Pride Troopers are basically parodies of Super Sentai teams (think Power Rangers, etc) which are known for their own transformation sequences at times and, of course, cool poses.  Lots of cool poses.  The Ginyu Force was also a sentai parody, but they were also villains, and could also make Freiza blush doing it, which is why they were hilarious.  It was the gap, dammit, the GAP!  Anyway, the trope in this case is that the aforementioned refused animation sequences were played every episode, and since it took a lot of air-time for a transformation to occur, the "joke" started to form that the villains were just standing there like imbeciles waiting patiently for the girls to finish their power ups.  Actually Sailor Moon lampshaded this one itself by having a villain attack before the "ritual" was finished, which forced Sailor Moon, et al to quickly jump out of their sequence, fully transformed of course, implying that the whole ****ing ritual isn't all that necessary.  But, it is what it is.  So when Android 17 blasted them, it should have been good for a rather ripping laugh.  I did.  I laughed heartily.  Android 17 basically deconstructed the entire magical girl genre with one ki blast.  I thought it was going to be 18 that did it, though, because it just seems like the kind of thing 18 would do, but 17 works just as well.  Anyway, long story short, this isn't just Goku being an idiot, this is just how magical girl transformation sequences go.  Just roll with it.  17 didn't get the memo.
* And what magical girl story wouldn't be complete without a little yuri subtext?  Okay, most magical girl shows don't have this, favoring the standard shojou romance tropes with some handsome guy, but there's enough of it that people should have gotten another ripping laugh from Kakunsa and Vikal's "little moment".  The only thing missing was Vikal calling Kakunsa "oneesama".

Anyway, it was goofy fun.  Vegeta once again comes punch to face with a "gag" character and subconsciously loses, Champa shouting what Beerus muttered was adorable, Frieza literally ignores the love gas because he's so damned evil, and Goku gets bitch slapped.  Fun!
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Offline TypicalIdiotFan

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Re: Dragon Ball Super
« Reply #51 on: August 12, 2017, 11:51:22 PM »
103:

I will never understand Dragon Ball physics.  If Botamo's body is supposed to absorb all impact, generally indicating that whatever vector forces act upon his body will have no effect, or that all energy is dispersed uniformly with no single point being significantly effected, or just space magic, then how exactly can Gohan physically lift him up with rapid punches to the same spot?  If you can't push him backwards with a punch, why can you push him UPWARDS with one?  Furthermore, he can't cavort his body or neck enough to shoot someone standing right below him, and his arms apparently can't reach where Gohan was even though we've seen him be able to reach down there before.

Whatever.  At least Gohan got to do something, and Universe 10 is now extinct.  Cus had a much more somber reaction than U9's Angel, whose smirk seemed to betray some misdeeding going on here.
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Offline The Big Guy

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Re: Dragon Ball Super
« Reply #52 on: August 13, 2017, 03:24:47 PM »
Looking at the Dragon Ball wiki page, apparently in the manga Botamo only absorbs damage, not momentum. That's why he can be lifted up, though why Gohan can move him and Vegeta earlier could not is a plot hole regardless. The anime has some dimensional explanation or something that doesn't make sense.
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Offline TypicalIdiotFan

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Re: Dragon Ball Super
« Reply #53 on: August 13, 2017, 11:48:34 PM »
As it has been pointed out many times, the manga and anime are doing their own things, despite the same settings.  Next week's episode has Goku going Super Saiyan God again for some ****ing reason, whereas in the manga he and Vegeta have always been turning Super Saiyan God not Super Saiyan Blue.  So why is he turned SSG again?  Who ****ing knows. 
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Offline gedata

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Re: Dragon Ball Super
« Reply #54 on: August 14, 2017, 10:57:55 AM »
103:

I will never understand Dragon Ball physics.  If Botamo's body is supposed to absorb all impact, generally indicating that whatever vector forces act upon his body will have no effect, or that all energy is dispersed uniformly with no single point being significantly effected, or just space magic, then how exactly can Gohan physically lift him up with rapid punches to the same spot?  If you can't push him backwards with a punch, why can you push him UPWARDS with one?  Furthermore, he can't cavort his body or neck enough to shoot someone standing right below him, and his arms apparently can't reach where Gohan was even though we've seen him be able to reach down there before.
Botamo's body is supposed to be able to send impacts to an alternate dimension or something, so this really doesn't make any sense. I guess he just hit Botamo really really hard.

Offline TypicalIdiotFan

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Re: Dragon Ball Super
« Reply #55 on: September 25, 2017, 03:16:18 PM »
108:

This is getting tedious.  What purpose was this episode supposed to serve?  Was it actually supposed to build up Frieza to some kind of betrayal, or at least make people think he might betray everybody?  I can't believe either are true, not after this.  If Frieza was the ultimate wild card for Universe 7, that hand has now been played.  Now that they've teased his betrayal, they can't go through with it.  That's foreshadow writing 101.  Dragonball does this all the ****ing time.  If Character X has some kind of technique that is sure to win, it wont, because it was hyped.  If Character Y is supposed to save the day, he or she wont, because it was expected.  If certain events are supposed to transpire, they wont, because we were told about them ahead of time.  This is how Toriyama, Toei, or whomever, writes their "twists".  Foreshadow the **** out of one thing, then a different thing happens, usually the opposite thing.

So Frieza is not going to betray U7.  He can't.  By having this episode, while in the backs of their minds the other fighters didn't trust him fully, they were not paying attention to him because of the other events going on.  Now they're paying attention to him.  How is he supposed to betray them now?  He just unzipped his fly and showed everybody his nonexistent dong.  Once you (don't) see it, you can't (not) unsee it.  Maybe that's what he wants, as some kind of mental screwjob with everybody?  I don't now.  Considering he was plotting with U9 that was quickly dismissed and forgotten about, who knows what the **** Frieza is up to.  A team-up with Frost would have been interesting.  Him betraying and eliminating Frost is not.

Why?  Because Frost is nothing by himself.  We already knew that from the U6-U7 tournament.  The initial concept of having Frost be the mirror opposite of Frieza, much like the Saiyans of U6 being unlike the U7 ones (and the U6 Earth being stupider than U7 Earth), was actually interesting in a very jarring mind**** kind of way.  Having a likeable Frieza?  Boggles the mind.  They didn't keep it very long, which meant he was just a weaker Frieza, which meant he was not interesting anymore.  They only brought him back for this tournament because they didn't want to create another new character for U6, and so he could be erased by Zen.  Frost served no purpose, inevitably, and the little bit at the beginning of the tournament between them, was a pointless red herring.  Oh wait, there's another of those foreshadowing moments.

And that was Frieza's grand plan?  Fake a battle with Gohan to blast Frost off when he wasn't paying attention?  Yeah, sure, Frieza is a ****er and likes to torment people; build up Frost's hope then crush it.  That's Frieza, I guess.  You have to imagine Frost was probably thinking of betraying Frieza at some point anyway.  It just seems like the dog-and-pony show did more harm to Frieza's character than good.  And what was that nonsense about actually getting rid of Gohan if he wasn't smart enough to figure things out?  He'd have actually kept Frost around if Gohan wasn't willing to participate in the facade?  He'd have openly betrayed them then, making himself a target of all U7 fighters and all the other universe fighters as well?  Frieza isn't that stupid.

So, again, what was the point of this episode?  What has the point been of any of these episodes?  Like I said, watching this is starting to get tedious.
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Offline gedata

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Re: Dragon Ball Super
« Reply #56 on: September 29, 2017, 08:34:13 PM »
So, again, what was the point of this episode?  What has the point been of any of these episodes?
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Offline TypicalIdiotFan

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Re: Dragon Ball Super
« Reply #57 on: October 10, 2017, 02:26:44 PM »
109-110:

I don't even want to discuss these episodes right now, but there's some obligation here, I guess.  Jiren has turned out to be the ultimate badass he was hyped to be, and because of that, Goku had to get a new "form".  Why?  I don't know.  Goku always has to get a new form.  It is just how this ****ing show goes.  No strategies, no skill, just power scales constantly one-upped because that's the only thing they know how to do anymore.  Everybody saw it coming, and now it is here, and the usual DBZ fans who love this shit are sperging out all over the place.  I just find it boring at this point.  How many more aura recolors can they do?  If this and SS God are to be believed, the new, more powerful forms are all CG auras, and with that, as this newest one proves, you can go ****ing apeshit on the color saturation if you want.  That damn thing looked like someone put a bunch of color paint in their mouth then spit it all over the place.  I don't know exactly how much more of this I can take, frankly.  We now have "base form", which most people just call "normal" but because we're in DBZ land it still has to be special to weed out the normies; super saiyan form, which has become less important than base form somehow, SS 2, SS3 (which was skipped by Goku), super saiyan God, super saiyan God super saiyan (aka "blue" or super cyan if you're clever), and super sayan blue with kaioken times whatever scalar value they feel like pulling out of their ass (this week we're up to 20 for no reason other than it is higher than 10 and round numbers are sexy, why not 16 or some prime number?), and now we've got this... whatever they called it "Ultra Instinct" form which is just the stupidest ****ing name but probably something that doesn't translate well.  I don't know what to do with this at this point.  The only benefit to all this shit is that Goku still doesn't win, and in fact still wasn't close to Jiren, and he doesn't know how he did that.  As always, though, they're going to find a way to do that regularly, so it is just a matter of time, and then somehow they'll combine that shit with Super Saiyan form again, to make Super Saiyan Ultra Instinct, and you can see where this goddamn cycle keeps repeating until it is pointless.

And that's where we are, pointlessness.  Even the erasure of the universes and the impending doom to everybody's existence doesn't ****ing matter right now.  There is about as much tension in this tournament as ordering take out, and if we cut to another overblown reaction from the Zen's, I swear I might hurl.  DB Super has somehow become more annoying than Black Clover's main VA, if that were ****ing possible.

There's no story here.  In previous battles, there were risks and consequences, and they were important, and the tension was there.  Beating Frieza was a huge accomplishment because of survival and revenge, beating Cell was a huge accomplishment because of survival and Gohan's development, beating Buu was an accomplishment because we could finally end the damn series.  There has been nothing here since the start of DB S that has any kind of tension at all.  Even Beerus, who I still think is the best part of this whole thing, wasn't really a threat.  He was the closest thing we've got, but inevitably you knew he was going to not blow up the Earth.  Kind of hard to have a series after that.  You also knew Frieza wasn't going to win when he came back, and it took a retarded Deus Ex Machina to stop that from happening anyway.  The Goku Black / Zamasu arc had zero consequence at all for our heroes.  Trunks' timeline is ****ed, but Goku and Vegeta could just go home, plus Zen can just fix everything anyway.

And now this, a tournament arc, which are usually the best or worst parts of Dragonball depending on who you ask, with consequences that nobody cares about, and with the looming wish possibly being the big white out for any consequences that do happen, the only thing left to watch this for is for the creativity in the weird other universe fighters and the big showdown with Jiren, which has sort of already happened.  Now we're going to have another dozen episodes of back to ****ing around.  If they really wanted this to be meaningful, they could have used this as a way to wipe both Goku AND Jiren off the map, making the rest of the playing field more even, which might actually create some fascinating possibilities.  Instead, it is just another power up, and another "Goku is down for a while but will come back more powerful than ever" mini arc that also always happens in Dragonball.

I'm just sick of it.  There is no creativity to this anymore.  Worse, it has become cynical.  It doesn't NEED to be creative because we're all watching it anyway.
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Offline TypicalIdiotFan

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Re: Dragon Ball Super
« Reply #58 on: October 21, 2017, 09:51:34 PM »
112:

Jesus.  This is why you don't blow your wad on the big battle midway through this shit.  Now all you can do is go back to the previously fillertastic battles that littered the landscape throughout the first half, and these are boring as hell.  Worse, the pattern usually is "find some way to take Goku out for a while so he can come back and save the day later" and that's what we've got here, but Goku isn't taken out.  He got an energy recovery from Frieza, but otherwise should be relatively ****ed for a while.  But, no, we can't have that.  The fans want to see him fight, so now physically battered and energetically exhausted, he's going to battle Califlaua and Kale, and he's going to use SS3 on them.

Let that sink in.  What was the big problem with Super Saiyan 3?  It was a power hog, it ate stamina like birds eat tofu, and the only way Goku could do it safely was when he was dead because there was less risk to himself that way.  Sure, he did it against Beerus and seemed to have no major issue, so maybe he can maintain it a little better now, but since stamina loss has been the biggest ****ing theme lately in Dragonball Super, even though it has heretofore not really ever been that big a deal, Goku in his exhausted state is going to use the biggest stamina hog transformation he has

I don't write this shit.  This is all they have to go with, because nobody cares about what Gohan and Piccolo are doing, or why we haven't even seen 17 and 18 on screen in weeks (I don't count them watching the Jiren / Goku battle).  Even Vegeta, who is actually fighting someone we know of significance, is being pushed aside for Goku vs. the Girl Saiyans.  That is all you need to know about Super and how it is going.  Nobody else is important but Goku and the Girl Saiyans.  That's it.

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