Please login or register.
Login with username, password and session length

The Nihon Review Forum

October 21, 2017, 10:32:02 AM
News: Check us out on Twitter and Facebook!
Pages: [1] 2  All   Go Down

Author Topic: Suggestion: A Top 10 Animes of All Time Video  (Read 4379 times)

Offline RustySpider

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 16

Suggestion: A Top 10 Animes of All Time Video
« on: January 13, 2014, 10:32:07 AM »
I post this after watching WatchMojo's Top 10 Anime Series video (they make top 10s for various things). For those who haven't seen it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cieq0zBmVms

To cut a long story short, it's full of popular mainstream shlock. Now I'm fully aware that these things are subjective, but I've seen a good chunk of these top 10 videos, and the vast majority of them follow similar suit; they're almost certain to include the likes of Dragon Ball Z, Naruto, Bleach etc.

So as a change of pace from just regular reviews, why doesn't this site create it's own top 10? The main reason I want your mob to do one is because I've been reading your reviews for a few months, and have been extremely impressed by the anime you've given good scores, and I hadn't even heard of them beforehand. Legend of the Galactic Heroes would have to be the best anime I've ever seen by far, and I also really really liked Now and Then Here and There, Mawaru Penguindrum, The Rose of Versailles, Nana etc. It's not just the ratings either, they're really well-written reviews as well, and you lot clearly seem to have a good idea on what constitutes being labeled a high quality anime.

So basically, I think it'd be great if you could do a top 10 list of sorts, if only to bring more exposure to these hidden gems, nevermind that it could well be the only top 10 to include them. Anyway, just a suggestion.

Offline Desdemondia

  • Calculated.
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 199
    • Desdemondia's Profile - MyAnimeList.net
    • Steam Community :: Desdemondia
    • @Desdemondia

Re: Suggestion: A Top 10 Animes of All Time Video
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2014, 01:39:11 PM »
To be on the anime board, or not to be: that is my question. Thinking that this thread could be destined for the Anime board with the Netflix Top 10 Essential Anime Movies thread though it's a suggestion.. but idk  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Just to get this out of the way early, as said before in the top movies thread, it's pretty damned hard to choose and cut, as well as feel satisfied with your selections. Any criteria to clarify the somewhat inclusive topic or just sticking to 'best'? I think you're referring to a top 10 of hidden gems, rather than something like 'essential', 'most popular', or possibly 'classics'. This sort of thing is where choice of words is enormously critical to how it all turns out, as 'essential' is slightly different by a minuscule from 'high-quality'. To give a few examples, another benchmark as a basis for this list could be the top 'greatest impact on industry' or 'influential' animes also, which can refer to breakthrough in animation, creativity, etc.. or, you could mean the most 'perfect' anime with the least flaws ever. It all boils down to what kind of 'best' this is, I think.

If NHRV did a top 10, categorizing it as top 10 hidden gems would be an interesting read. But oh, think of all the carnage this'll be putting them through; just going to sit back and be entertained, as I don't think my take on it qualifies quite enough so I'll let them [old farts❤] take it up. A collection of personal top 10 lists such as AC's top 20 would also be an idea for a suggestion.

Let the bloodsport commence?
« Last Edit: January 13, 2014, 01:46:57 PM by Desdemondia »

Offline Marid King

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2195
    • komosha's Profile - MyAnimeList.net

Re: Suggestion: A Top 10 Animes of All Time Video
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2014, 01:56:12 PM »
I'm not sure the reviewers could narrow down a list to just 10. Just look at how shotgunny the AoTY picks usually are.

Maybe if they did top 5 with no particular order in a bunch of categories?

Actually, I'm curious enough that I might do a bit of MAL stalking to come up with something...
The only denizen of the Other Place posting on the Nihon Review.

Offline RustySpider

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 16

Re: Suggestion: A Top 10 Animes of All Time Video
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2014, 02:21:14 PM »
To be on the anime board, or not to be: that is my question. Thinking that this thread could be destined for the Anime board with the Netflix Top 10 Essential Anime Movies thread though it's a suggestion.. but idk  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Just to get this out of the way early, as said before in the top movies thread, it's pretty damned hard to choose and cut, as well as feel satisfied with your selections. Any criteria to clarify the somewhat inclusive topic or just sticking to 'best'? I think you're referring to a top 10 of hidden gems, rather than something like 'essential', 'most popular', or possibly 'classics'. This sort of thing is where choice of words is enormously critical to how it all turns out, as 'essential' is slightly different by a minuscule from 'high-quality'. To give a few examples, another benchmark as a basis for this list could be the top 'greatest impact on industry' or 'influential' animes also, which can refer to breakthrough in animation, creativity, etc.. or, you could mean the most 'perfect' anime with the least flaws ever. It all boils down to what kind of 'best' this is, I think.

If NHRV did a top 10, categorizing it as top 10 hidden gems would be an interesting read. But oh, think of all the carnage this'll be putting them through; just going to sit back and be entertained, as I don't think my take on it qualifies quite enough so I'll let them [old farts❤] take it up. A collection of personal top 10 lists such as AC's top 20 would also be an idea for a suggestion.

Let the bloodsport commence?
I'll make myself a bit clearer.

I'd be interested to see a top 10 based purely on the quality of the product, less so for the popularity.

As it just so happens, a lot of the top rated anime on the site happen to be series that are completely unknown to the mainstream; the vast majority of anime fans don't even know what The Rose of Versailles is, so I'd like to see this site create a Top 10 List of some sort just to bring some added exposure to these amazing animes, if not to simply distinguish itself from 99.9% of all the other Top 10s on Youtube, which always include all the usual suspects.

I'm not sure the reviewers could narrow down a list to just 10. Just look at how shotgunny the AoTY picks usually are.

Maybe if they did top 5 with no particular order in a bunch of categories?

Actually, I'm curious enough that I might do a bit of MAL stalking to come up with something...
Honestly, you could take all the animes on the site rated 9 & 10, throw them in a raffle, then make a list with the first 10 that come out, and it'll wind up at least 100 times better & more interesting than all the other Top 10s on Youtube.

I suggested it here specifically because this is the best anime review site by a mile, almost every review I've read so far has been right on the money. On top of that, the majority of the animes getting 10s & 9s don't get anywhere near the praise they deserve within the mainstream.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2014, 02:40:12 PM by RustySpider »

Offline TypicalIdiotFan

  • Banned.
  • Reviewer
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7147
    • @@TypicalIdiotFan

Re: Suggestion: A Top 10 Animes of All Time Video
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2014, 03:34:20 PM »
Quote from: RustySpider
I'd be interested to see a top 10 based purely on the quality of the product, less so for the popularity.

But even this has hangups.  The 2013 AOTY discussion thread up in the articles section should be an indicator that there are still going to be disagreements.  This year was, I think, one of the few times where we ever had more than two people agreeing on what the anime of the year was (Shin Sekai Yori).  Usually everybody has their own point of view, and maybe you'll get two people to say the same one.  This is because things are very subjective.  What you notice in an anime, or what the anime says to you, or what you find appealing, is not going to be the same for everybody.  Our reviews are designed to not only explain the finer points of the show, but why we think the way we do about them.  This is why a lot of our articles tend to be heavy on the technical aspects and less on the personal aspects.  This is also why I love it when Akira comes back around or Imperial X interjects his own unique points in the discussion threads, because every once in a while you just need to see a show's appeal from the otaku point of view, dammit.

Anyway, this would probably have to be one of those projects that requires that each reviewer provides their own top 10, rather than one single "NHRV approved" list, because we'll never agree on all ten, and where they go.  Just wont happen.  We've tried to avoid high debate in our AOTY preparation articles because we don't want blood feuds; something like this would bring about civil war.

However, that is how I would do it.  Each author providing their own and explaining themselves.  I would also want previous reviewers who are no longer with us to do theirs, so that we have a true community result.  There would have to be parameters, tho.  You're talking about quality, but what kind of quality?  Writing, directing, animation (or other technical aspects), quality in execution, quality in sensation, quality in uniqueness or style?

There's a lot of things to consider, including mainstream popularity.  I nominated a few shows for the AOTY thread this year that I personally hated, but felt they deserved recognition because of popularity.  Popular shows might not always be the cream of the crop, but there is something that draws them to people, and that shouldn't be ignored.  Also, popularity doesn't also equal sucktitude.  There are plenty of popular anime that are also brilliant works.  While doing a top ten list of the best anime of all time "you've never heard of" (in other words, a hipster underground list of unheralded shows) might be easier, it shouldn't be the only way to go.

Lastly, qualifications are necessary based on format.  TV series, OAVs, movies?  It isn't always fair to compare these across media, otherwise the top 10 would probably be overloaded with Studio Ghibli works.  So there have to be limitations here, or we could see a nasty skew towards one format or another, and that would be unfair since films and OAVs have different goals and different budgets than TV series.

I'm not saying we wont do it, but there has to be more thought that goes into the planning of a project like this than trying to apply broad subjectivity to a broad area.  There's a lot of shit to consider, and trying to compartmentalize everything into that is way too difficult for me to do, so I don't expect others to be able to... AND still deliver a quality opinion, and I think this last point is the most important.  Doing a top 10 is easy; doing a good top 10 article is not.
I'm just like you, only smarter™.

Offline Marid King

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2195
    • komosha's Profile - MyAnimeList.net

Re: Suggestion: A Top 10 Animes of All Time Video
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2014, 04:09:25 PM »
So during one of my breaks, I went through the current and former staff sections, tallied up all the top 3 anime of each reviewer awarding 10, 9, and 8 for each place, plus the score for any actual reviews. The results were rather interesting (forgive any typos).

In order of total points, the top 20 anime would be:   

Honey and Clover
FLCL
Ruroni Tsuikohen
Azumanga Daioh
Monster
Now and then, here and there
Neon Genesis Evangelion
Fullmetal Alchemist
Haibane Renmai
Revolutionary Girl Utena
Legend of the Galactic Heroes
The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya
Castle in the Sky
Grave of the Fireflies
Millenium Actress
Princess Mononoke
Gungrave
Mushishi
Kino's Journey
Planetes

In order of average score, with the stipulation that there must be at least 3 scores, the top 20 anime are:

Castle in the Sky
Revolutionary Girl Utena
Grave of the Fireflies
Honey and Clover
FLCL
Ruroni Tsuikohen
Monster
Now and then, here and there
Millenium Actress
Princess Mononoke
Gungrave
Legend of the Galactic Heroes
Mushishi
Neon Genesis Evangelion
The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya
Azumanga Daioh
Kino's Journey
Planetes
Fullmetal Alchemist
Haibane Renmai

The only denizen of the Other Place posting on the Nihon Review.

Offline RustySpider

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 16

Re: Suggestion: A Top 10 Animes of All Time Video
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2014, 04:42:52 PM »
Quote from: RustySpider
I'd be interested to see a top 10 based purely on the quality of the product, less so for the popularity.

But even this has hangups.  The 2013 AOTY discussion thread up in the articles section should be an indicator that there are still going to be disagreements.  This year was, I think, one of the few times where we ever had more than two people agreeing on what the anime of the year was (Shin Sekai Yori).  Usually everybody has their own point of view, and maybe you'll get two people to say the same one.  This is because things are very subjective.  What you notice in an anime, or what the anime says to you, or what you find appealing, is not going to be the same for everybody.  Our reviews are designed to not only explain the finer points of the show, but why we think the way we do about them.  This is why a lot of our articles tend to be heavy on the technical aspects and less on the personal aspects.  This is also why I love it when Akira comes back around or Imperial X interjects his own unique points in the discussion threads, because every once in a while you just need to see a show's appeal from the otaku point of view, dammit.

Anyway, this would probably have to be one of those projects that requires that each reviewer provides their own top 10, rather than one single "NHRV approved" list, because we'll never agree on all ten, and where they go.  Just wont happen.  We've tried to avoid high debate in our AOTY preparation articles because we don't want blood feuds; something like this would bring about civil war.

However, that is how I would do it.  Each author providing their own and explaining themselves.  I would also want previous reviewers who are no longer with us to do theirs, so that we have a true community result.  There would have to be parameters, tho.  You're talking about quality, but what kind of quality?  Writing, directing, animation (or other technical aspects), quality in execution, quality in sensation, quality in uniqueness or style?

There's a lot of things to consider, including mainstream popularity.  I nominated a few shows for the AOTY thread this year that I personally hated, but felt they deserved recognition because of popularity.  Popular shows might not always be the cream of the crop, but there is something that draws them to people, and that shouldn't be ignored.  Also, popularity doesn't also equal sucktitude.  There are plenty of popular anime that are also brilliant works.  While doing a top ten list of the best anime of all time "you've never heard of" (in other words, a hipster underground list of unheralded shows) might be easier, it shouldn't be the only way to go.

Lastly, qualifications are necessary based on format.  TV series, OAVs, movies?  It isn't always fair to compare these across media, otherwise the top 10 would probably be overloaded with Studio Ghibli works.  So there have to be limitations here, or we could see a nasty skew towards one format or another, and that would be unfair since films and OAVs have different goals and different budgets than TV series.

I'm not saying we wont do it, but there has to be more thought that goes into the planning of a project like this than trying to apply broad subjectivity to a broad area.  There's a lot of shit to consider, and trying to compartmentalize everything into that is way too difficult for me to do, so I don't expect others to be able to... AND still deliver a quality opinion, and I think this last point is the most important.  Doing a top 10 is easy; doing a good top 10 article is not.

Was just raising it as an idea, as I'm fresh off seeing a few other top 10s, which are heavily saturated with mainstream shlock. Just to make one thing clear, I'm more than aware that there are plenty of excellent, high quality mainstream animes going around; I was just highlighting that a lot of the well-received anime on this site, most of which I myself rate very highly upon viewing, hardly get any exposure, and I think it'd be good to see a top 10 that included some of them.

Anyway, I'm really drowsy at the moment & didn't really plan on going into too much detail tonight, but I'll try to explain some of the things I had in mind:

TV Series & OVAs only. Including films would indeed likely make for a heavy saturation in Studio Ghibli films (which are also underappreciated by the mainstream, but still, you don't want half the top 10 to be Ghibli Movies).

As for the popularity debate, as I said, so long as it's a product of high quality, it should be considered. When I use the term 'mainstream shlock', I have things like Dragon Ball Z in mind; extremely extremely popular and highly influential, but let's be honest, it ain't that good, and shouldn't even come close to meriting a spot in a top 10 greatest of all time list.

As for how the top 10 & the order is decided, well, a good productive debate is necessary, like it is for every other organized top 10 list. If there are things that can't be agreed upon, it can always be solved by a vote or something similar. Perhaps even a neutral party can observe who has the more convincing argument?

Either way, I'd still like to see something like this done, if only to see an interesting alternative to all the other Top 10s on Youtube, almost all of which have the likes of Dragon Ball Z, Naruto, Bleach, Code Geass etc etc.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2014, 04:52:59 PM by RustySpider »

Offline Fumoffu!!

  • Head of the Zwei
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1744
  • Pedantic Nitpicker
    • Infinite's Profile - MyAnimeList.net

Re: Suggestion: A Top 10 Animes of All Time Video
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2014, 06:30:24 PM »
I know my top 3 anime, (but not in what order), past that I have no idea. Like I could say what would be in my top 30, but the order not so much.

The difficulty for doing this is that as TIF said, everyone has their own opinion, more to the point not everyone has seen the same anime, so TIF might really like one show, but no one else might not have seen it. Should it be excluded then, even if TIF thinks it's the best anime ever? Maybe, but what if two people have seen it? Three? Four? How many people raving about it does it need to overcome the fact that the majority hasn't seen it?

Plus it's not that useful I suppose apart from providing discussion... or arguments.

Offline ImperialX

  • けだるげ
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 623
  • I used to write about anime. Now I watch anime.
    • ImperialX's Profile - MyAnimeList.net
    • @ImperialX

Re: Suggestion: A Top 10 Animes of All Time Video
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2014, 09:18:40 PM »
Compiling a ranked list for me is a heresy because it implies that another anime is comparable to Aria. The thought of comparing any other anime to Aria alone is heresy, let alone making a list. It's simply disgusting.

I just can't do it. I have morals I need to uphold. If I can feel so strongly about a single series, I can't imagine how the entire NHRV staff can come together and compile one single list. There will be a bloodbath.

Offline Marid King

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2195
    • komosha's Profile - MyAnimeList.net

Re: Suggestion: A Top 10 Animes of All Time Video
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2014, 09:39:48 PM »
Compiling a ranked list for me is a heresy because it implies that another anime is comparable to Aria. The thought of comparing any other anime to Aria alone is heresy, let alone making a list. It's simply disgusting.

I just can't do it. I have morals I need to uphold. If I can feel so strongly about a single series, I can't imagine how the entire NHRV staff can come together and compile one single list. There will be a bloodbath.

I've been meaning to tell you this for years, ImperialX-senpai, but I could never bring myself to do it.

You see, I-I tried to watch the first episode of Aria The Origination.

But I stopped after 2 minutes because I got bored~ Teehee!
The only denizen of the Other Place posting on the Nihon Review.

Offline ImperialX

  • けだるげ
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 623
  • I used to write about anime. Now I watch anime.
    • ImperialX's Profile - MyAnimeList.net
    • @ImperialX

Re: Suggestion: A Top 10 Animes of All Time Video
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2014, 10:19:42 PM »
I've been meaning to tell you this for years, ImperialX-senpai, but I could never bring myself to do it.

You see, I-I tried to watch the first episode of Aria The Origination.

But I stopped after 2 minutes because I got bored~ Teehee!



Kids these days...

Offline Kiniest

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 945
    • Kiniest's Profile - MyAnimeList.net
    • Chat with Kiniest1 using Skype

Re: Suggestion: A Top 10 Animes of All Time Video
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2014, 10:24:20 PM »
I don't see Nana mentioned anywhere.

I don't see Nana mentioned anywhere.
harvey beaks is the best anime

Offline Marid King

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2195
    • komosha's Profile - MyAnimeList.net

Re: Suggestion: A Top 10 Animes of All Time Video
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2014, 10:45:50 PM »
Mmm. Well, it was obviously on the overall list, but didn't make it to the top 20 based on the conditions I set. I think I know the feeling though, Gankutsuou had an average rating roughly equal to it's MAL score o.O
The only denizen of the Other Place posting on the Nihon Review.

Offline AC

  • Screenshot Master
  • Reviewer
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3800
    • ACCESS1986 | Anime-Planet
    • Chat with nazrul.bin.buang using Skype
    • @@AC_CESS
    • The Nihon Review

Re: Suggestion: A Top 10 Animes of All Time Video
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2014, 11:54:23 PM »
If you want to see our 10 most favorite anime of all time, we can do that anytime. In fact, if it's phrased this way and not "Top 10...", then it removes absolute objectivity and comparative value among all 10 of them. It's just a pool of the shows we love, not what we think it's the best.

Heck, I can never give my top 10 without feeling self-conflicted: Miyazaki Hayao's films are always top-notched but I've never considered any of his films to be in my 10 most favorite anime list.

Offline RustySpider

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 16

Re: Suggestion: A Top 10 Animes of All Time Video
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2014, 09:22:15 AM »
I know my top 3 anime, (but not in what order), past that I have no idea. Like I could say what would be in my top 30, but the order not so much.

The difficulty for doing this is that as TIF said, everyone has their own opinion, more to the point not everyone has seen the same anime, so TIF might really like one show, but no one else might not have seen it. Should it be excluded then, even if TIF thinks it's the best anime ever? Maybe, but what if two people have seen it? Three? Four? How many people raving about it does it need to overcome the fact that the majority hasn't seen it?

Plus it's not that useful I suppose apart from providing discussion... or arguments.
For starters, would be hoping it's an objective top 10. Not a Top 10 'Favourite', I was thinking top 10 best.

Secondly, sure it'd prove difficult, but this being a review site, I'm sure most of the reviewers have covered a wide range of anime, so I'd imagine there couldn't be too many examples of animes very few have seen. For those examples, that's what a debate is for, and I guess whoever could put forward a more compelling debate for said anime, it would have a better case for being in the top 10.

Not the first organized top 10 either; things like this have been done before numerous times.

There are a few ways it could be useful too:

-More Site exposure, Top 10s are very accessible to the average viewer.
-Being one of the very very few top 10s that isn't saturated with mainstream shlock. Not enough hipsters these days.
-Debate.
-Brings exposure to some excellent, lesser known anime that the mainstream market doesn't even know exists.
If you want to see our 10 most favorite anime of all time, we can do that anytime. In fact, if it's phrased this way and not "Top 10...", then it removes absolute objectivity and comparative value among all 10 of them. It's just a pool of the shows we love, not what we think it's the best.

Heck, I can never give my top 10 without feeling self-conflicted: Miyazaki Hayao's films are always top-notched but I've never considered any of his films to be in my 10 most favorite anime list.
Problem is, because it's entirely subjective, it doesn't leave any room open for debate, and heaps of people have done that already. I'm more interested in seeing an objective Top 10, one that's the result of plenty of intense discussion & debate, and would hopefully include some of the 9-10 rated anime on this site, which hardly had any exposure within the mainstream.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2014, 09:30:27 AM by RustySpider »
Pages: [1] 2  All   Go Up