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Author Topic: Fate/Kaleid Liner PRISMA ILYA  (Read 20981 times)

Offline Funky Dealer

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Re: Fate/Kaleid Liner PRISMA ILYA
« Reply #15 on: August 18, 2013, 06:57:33 PM »
6:

5:

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't disappointed by this battle.

I'm guessing that's what this episode was for.

While it wouldn't take much to figure how everything was going to go, the episode had some great atmosphere and a freaking beautiful fight scene. The whole transformation out of nowhere will take some explaining, but I'll roll with it for now.

Offline TypicalIdiotFan

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Re: Fate/Kaleid Liner PRISMA ILYA
« Reply #16 on: August 18, 2013, 07:37:59 PM »
6:

For those who aren't familiar with the Fate universe beyond Prism Illya, the look of the outfit and the powers / actions of the Archer transformation are (probably) very meaningful.  Explaining it might spoiler something, tho, so into the tags it goes!

Spoiler for Hiden:

In a nutshell, aside from exposing her midriff, she strongly resembled Archer from Fate Stay Night.  There are a number of important significances of that, namely:

- Archer tends to fight with swords that he creates himself, a white blade and a black blade, rather than a bow (though he does use it here in this episode).
- Fate S/N Archer is Rin's servant in the Holy Grail War.
- Archer is the Heroic Spirit of Shirou (Fate S/N Shirou, not Illya's adopted brother in this series), who is capable of using his "trace" magic to modify objects or create new ones.
- He is the bone of his sword.
- Everybody is gay for Archer.
- There were two Archers in the Holy Grail War featured in Fate S/N.  The first was the one described, the second was Gilgamesh, who appears later and was actually a hold-over (shenanigans) from the previous Holy Grail War (see Fate / Zero).
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Offline SQA

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Re: Fate/Kaleid Liner PRISMA ILYA
« Reply #17 on: August 20, 2013, 10:40:42 AM »
6:

Well, that was impressive in the second half.  I also like what they're up to with this series and I hope we see similar production designs in the future.

A lot of way this series works is actually in multiple post-production filtering runs.  That's how everything has so much gradient coloration to it.  And they used that setup to great effect in the 2nd half battle scene.  That saved a lot of physical animation, allowing them to skip a lot of CG that would normally show up, plus not have to go to really "bendy" animation styling.  So they were able to put in "more" high quality animation, but they also ramped up the compositing (the fire was a real fire-effect composed in) and filter effects.  In total, it looked REALLY nice and probably didn't break the budget (though it required some shifting).   I hope to see this style of design in the future, though I imagine it requires having the post-process filtering done in-house, to keep it on schedule.

Offline Funky Dealer

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Re: Fate/Kaleid Liner PRISMA ILYA
« Reply #18 on: August 25, 2013, 04:00:28 PM »
7:

Now that was some mood shift. It seems like it'll all be done in the next episode so they can wrap it all up with the Berserker fight, but man. I was expecting to just mention how much I was enjoying all that meta until the last couple of minutes hit. I guess I'll just say that Ruby and Sapphire talking about maids in particular is funny and that they couldn't have been less subtle with the Nanoha references and leave it there.

Offline Pebble

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Re: Fate/Kaleid Liner PRISMA ILYA
« Reply #19 on: August 29, 2013, 04:37:33 AM »
6:

First half: more meh. I really cant get a feel for where anything is, and since this was a ranged fight, not having a sense of territory really hurts it more than it should. It helps me empathise with Ilya's panic and confusion after the Excalibur struck, but not being able to easily figure out where it was that the attack even struck and where Saber was standing before it did doesn't help the show in any way.

Second half: HOLY BALLS THAT WAS AMAZING. THAT WAS F***ING PERFECT. I cannot express how much I love Archer Ilya's fighting style. Its scary fast, its vicious, and yet still gracefully elegant. Her being there elevated the entire fight way, way, way above average. If Saber herself was less passive for the first three-quarters of episodes 5-6, this fight would have been at the level of ufotable's better fights, because post-transformation, this was probably one of the best non-realistic swordfights I've seen.

Still, it makes the weakness of the earlier bits stand out a bit. Saber was perfectly capable of being scary all along; she had the quick AOE windslash and enough speed to match an agility-build fighter, yet she didn't try to use any of that earlier. You could say that it emphasizes how outclassed the four MCs were, but I think it would have been better demonstrated if Saber slowly and deliberately cornered them despite their best efforts, as opposed to them being hit by a lucky hit.
The ending was a bit substandard though. I'm just not too fond of "whose spiritbomb was better" resolutions.

7: So... much... whiplash...
Well, its not that bad. The first(, pretty funny) half does set Ilya up as impulsive and careless, so it's actually being followed up on, so it isn't as bad as it could have been.

I was expecting to just mention how much I was enjoying all that meta until the last couple of minutes hit. I guess I'll just say that Ruby and Sapphire talking about maids in particular is funny and that they couldn't have been less subtle with the Nanoha references and leave it there.
Very lyrically put. A more lyrical description I couldn't have given you myself. I think I shall dub this the Lyrical f***up. Lyrical lyrical lyrical.

But seriously, lack of subtlety kills meta. It, how do I put it... ruins the lyricality.

See what I mean?
« Last Edit: August 29, 2013, 05:26:45 AM by Pebble »

Offline KS

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Re: Fate/Kaleid Liner PRISMA ILYA
« Reply #20 on: August 30, 2013, 09:28:44 AM »
So I went ahead and watched that fight scene from episode 6 cause that's all anybody seemed to imply was worth watching about this show and....why are people so impressed by this again?  It's kind of flashy yeah, but that's about it (I found Railgun S had more interesting well thought out fights or tense moments and more frequently then this show at that) it's still the same old kind of weird and squishy character designs which is still a turn off for me and it honestly doesn't even feel like a proper Fate style fight with zero tactics and strategy and Illya just kind of pulling Excalibur out of nowhere with Archer style abilities even though Archer claimed even he couldn't fully trace such a divine weapon 100% .  I guess I'm just not that easily impressed, I mean it wasn't a bad fight scene but I was hardly blown away by it....Illya's outfit was interesting I guess.  From the sounds of it it's back to straight mediocrity afterword so if that was their gambit to get people interested in the show I'm not sure it paid off.

Offline Pebble

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Re: Fate/Kaleid Liner PRISMA ILYA
« Reply #21 on: August 30, 2013, 11:06:25 AM »
So I went ahead and watched that fight scene from episode 6 cause that's all anybody seemed to imply was worth watching about this show and....why are people so impressed by this again?  It's kind of flashy yeah, but that's about it (I found Railgun S had more interesting well thought out fights or tense moments and more frequently then this show at that) it's still the same old kind of weird and squishy character designs which is still a turn off for me 
I haven't seen Railgun S so I cant say anything about that. What I can say is that the first season of Railgun didn't have any fights that even remotely approached this.
Flashiness is perhaps your way of describing the special effects, like the sword trails, and the excessive camera movements. Admittedly, some of them don't work well, like the spiraling shot before Saber and Ilya's first melee clash, which is just done for show.
The others, like the camera recoil when Archer starts doing his aerial barrage help create a sense of impact that is sadly missing in a lot of fights. Railgun(Season One) had this problem almost constantly. I guess the exceptions there would be when Misaka fires off her railgun, but even those were kinda wimpy; shit(cars) never got crushed or blew up.
The dizzying sequences are there to get you dizzy, and Ilya never blinking even once in Golden Mode is there to unnerve your ass. It worked on me, and most shows never even try shit like that.

and it honestly doesn't even feel like a proper Fate style fight with zero tactics and strategy
Not every fight needs to have explicitly stated tactics. Recall the sword fights in F/Zero, and how Saber's movements were often carefully thought out, with consideration to whether she was fighting Lancer or Caster or whomever, even if they were never stated. Similar type of unstated swordplay tactics here. What was incredible about this fight was how explosive it was, yet how either side retained their specific combat identities. Ilya is in an almost constant retreat for the entirety of the fight, and she uses the barrage of attacks to keep Saber in one place, all while she pirouetting, dodging, making smokescreens and generally trying to fight below the belt. Its a classic "the best defense is a good offense" strategy, and the reason I think they work best in a TV show is because they are pretty illusory. The best part is how all this is never said explicitly. Nobody wants more scenes in which the bad guy just stands there and stares while the MC spouts infodump. Admittedly, this show has done similar stuff. A lot. But hell, so did Titan. A bit of leeway is called for.
Besides, we cant always have realistic fights. Some universes are just flashy by nature, and Fate/<subtitle> is one of them. Surprise at an ass-pull Noble Phantasm is just part of the appeal.
Spoiler for Stuff Archer does in Fate/Zero:
Aint no "strategy" involved in pulling Ea out of your Gate of Babylon and raping Ionian Hetaroi with it.


and Illya just kind of pulling Excalibur out of nowhere with Archer style abilities even though Archer claimed even he couldn't fully trace such a divine weapon 100%.
Ah. You got me there. That bit I don't have a defense for. She should have pulled a different Phantasm out, or killed using a mobility strategy.

I guess I'm just not that easily impressed, I mean it wasn't a bad fight scene but I was hardly blown away by it....
Well aren't we all critical and sophisticated?
Illya's outfit was interesting
Yeah sorry I take that back. You are an awesome person.
I guess.
You guess? You f***ing guess?

Offline KS

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Re: Fate/Kaleid Liner PRISMA ILYA
« Reply #22 on: August 30, 2013, 11:17:06 AM »
Dude look around you, this site is pretty critical of shit in general and I'm possibly even more so a lot of the time.  I'm not hard to entertain, just hard to truly impress so I don't know what you were expecting here lol.  As a veteran of countless mecha/military anime/games/manga titles over the years I have seen an absolutely absurd number of different styles of fighting, styles of depiction, design aesthetics and cinematic touches so when a fight like this one comes along, yeah it's good for this joke of a season where action/budget are concerned but this is the kind of the level of fight sequence I see probably at least bi-weekly within my watch lists so I'll probably forget everything about it within a few days other than that Fem-Archer outfit.  That's kind of the level it was on for me....I guess.  :P
« Last Edit: August 30, 2013, 11:27:18 AM by KS »

Offline Pebble

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Re: Fate/Kaleid Liner PRISMA ILYA
« Reply #23 on: August 30, 2013, 11:45:21 AM »
There's a difference between being critical and looking out for "flaws" to find. I keep flaws in quotation marks because most things are just a few mental steps from being "flaws" to being "strengths". If I were to view this in the context of flashy magicky shows, this fight is very memorable. If I were to view this considering the aims of a show like say, Kaiji or Gundam 08th MS Team, it isn't.

Admittedly, these "genre groups" are rather arbitrarily made and I recognise that. I just dont see why all action scenes have to be scarring/harrowing/dark/gritty/detailed/tactical to be good.

EDIT:
I guess.  :P
Please excuse me while i go throw an apoplectic fit.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2013, 12:24:14 PM by Pebble »

Offline Reckoner

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Re: Fate/Kaleid Liner PRISMA ILYA
« Reply #24 on: August 30, 2013, 12:38:04 PM »
The fight in my opinion is okay in it's own right, but compared to other well made type moon productions it pales in comparison. Not to mention all the logical inconsistencies presented here that don't fit with what we know about fate. This is before even getting into all the aesthetic issues I have with this show. Aka it sucks and I wouldnt expect anything different of silver link

Offline KS

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Re: Fate/Kaleid Liner PRISMA ILYA
« Reply #25 on: August 30, 2013, 12:49:17 PM »
The fight in my opinion is okay in it's own right, but compared to other well made type moon productions it pales in comparison. Not to mention all the logical inconsistencies presented here that don't fit with what we know about fate. This is before even getting into all the aesthetic issues I have with this show. Aka it sucks and I wouldnt expect anything different of silver link

Basically this though I'd add that one above average fight scene with a magical loli in a revealing outfit does not a good or standout show make in and of itself and there's so many other areas in which this series has been fairly lacking and leaves much to be desired compared to other Type/Moon stuff that is best left to people less versed in Type/Moonology than me to point out.

I don't know, on some level I understand the hype, for people that only really follow what's currently airing closely as what's on TV right now is sorely lacking in the action/cool department now that the best parts of Railgun S are over and Symphogear G's budget is dwindling, but when you've got a mix of things like I do this fight really don't stand out that much and it hasn't kept up a similar level of excellence in this department like Railgun S did over the course of the early season either.  Don't know how else to put it.

Offline Pebble

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Re: Fate/Kaleid Liner PRISMA ILYA
« Reply #26 on: August 30, 2013, 01:05:30 PM »
Basically this though I'd add that one above average fight scene with a magical loli in a revealing outfit does not a good or standout show make in and of itself and there's so many other areas in which this series has been fairly lacking and leaves much to be desired compared to other Type/Moon stuff that is best left to people less versed in Type/Moonology than me to point out.
Of course it bloody well doesn't. It does, however, make for an awesome segment in an otherwise mediocre fight with a magical loli in a revealing outfit.
I dont get why people even came into this expecting any insightful, chilling or good Type-Moon material. That's like complaining about Love Lab because it doesn't have horror.

This is before even getting into all the aesthetic issues I have with this show. Aka it sucks and I wouldnt expect anything different of silver link
Ok admittedly the fire effect on archer was godawful and the feathers didn't really gel with the traced excalibur, but other than that I dont know what it is you're comlaining about.
Don't quite see your point.

Offline TypicalIdiotFan

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Re: Fate/Kaleid Liner PRISMA ILYA
« Reply #27 on: August 31, 2013, 03:01:18 AM »
8:

Too much brooding, not enough meta humor.  Moving on to the next episode.
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Offline TypicalIdiotFan

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Re: Fate/Kaleid Liner PRISMA ILYA
« Reply #28 on: September 14, 2013, 01:20:12 PM »
10:

Its over!  With an announcement of a second season!  Nobody is surprised by this!

Iri shows up!  Which is great!  Because Iri is hot!  But she says she needs to get back to Kiritsugu!  Which is weird!  Because Shirou!  Seriously!  With the time line all buggered up thanks to a past event not happening, how... who... when.... the questions!

Ahhh!

Oh and Illya pulls off a mass beam spam Excalibur with the help of Miyu, who turns yandere!  Whee!
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Offline Pebble

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Re: Fate/Kaleid Liner PRISMA ILYA
« Reply #29 on: September 16, 2013, 07:29:28 AM »
8: Didn't laugh once in the whole episode, and the genre-mesh felt really uncomfortable here. That hurts a show like this more than normal, since that's where all the charm is supposed to come from.

9: WHAT THE HELL DID YOU DO TO IRISVIEL'S FACE, SILVER LINK? And I disapprove of that Saber outfit.
Also, Berserker is suffering from the same problem Saber Alter had. Really drags down the action.

10: Good lord Tatusko is annoying. A lot about this ending really alienated me; the meta stopped being clever, the jokes mostly fell flat, the mahou-shoujo charm all went to hell and then there was all that yandere bullshit.

6/10. The good parts in this show were too brief.
Y'know what? Never mind that. I enjoyed practically nothing these past three episodes. 5/10.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2013, 07:45:51 AM by Pebble »
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