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Author Topic: Watashi ga Motenai no wa dō Kangaetemo Omaera ga Warui  (Read 12562 times)

Offline TypicalIdiotFan

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Re: Watashi ga Motenai no wa dō Kangaetemo Omaera ga Warui
« Reply #45 on: August 31, 2013, 02:49:18 AM »
8:

Apparently that whole bit with the boy and the umbrella back before was anime only, so I found this little bit to be that much more interesting.  I seems like the director is playing with Tomoko a bit.  Apparently he can't quite stand her having absolutely no hope whatsoever, so he made this boy come back for another round of Tomoko exposure.  The situation still turned out the same as it did in the manga, but I just find the whole thing fascinating.  This is, to date, the longest conversation that she would have had with a stranger of the opposing sex.  I mean, she had to beg him and explain to him the situation.  That alone constitutes a conversation does it not?  Shame that her self accomplishment involves this, and thus makes it worse.

Nevermind, I take it back, the director must HATE Tomoko and makes her suffering worse.
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Offline MCAL

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Re: Watashi ga Motenai no wa dō Kangaetemo Omaera ga Warui
« Reply #46 on: August 31, 2013, 02:56:49 PM »
8:
Apparently that whole bit with the boy and the umbrella back before was anime only, so I found this little bit to be that much more interesting. 

Actually I checked. The umbrella thing was part of the manga. Chapter 5 and 15.

Offline MCAL

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Re: Watashi ga Motenai no wa dō Kangaetemo Omaera ga Warui
« Reply #47 on: September 03, 2013, 09:16:38 AM »
9:

I kid you not. The last half of this episode depressed me to the point of tearing up. Tomoko is such a bitch and yet you kind of can't help but feel sorry for her.

Offline TypicalIdiotFan

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Re: Watashi ga Motenai no wa dō Kangaetemo Omaera ga Warui
« Reply #48 on: September 03, 2013, 05:04:12 PM »
I don't know.  I can easily not feel sorry for her.

Originally, I wanted this show to throw the kicked dog a bone.  For a lot of the situations early on, Tomoko was mostly a victim of circumstance and her own misconceptions.  I don't want that anymore.  Now I want Tomoko to wake the **** up and get over herself.  Now she's a victim of her own stupidity, stubbornness, and jealousy.  She is no longer a pitiable character to me.  She's repugnant.
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Offline MCAL

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Re: Watashi ga Motenai no wa dō Kangaetemo Omaera ga Warui
« Reply #49 on: September 03, 2013, 05:41:26 PM »
I don't know.  I can easily not feel sorry for her.

Originally, I wanted this show to throw the kicked dog a bone.  For a lot of the situations early on, Tomoko was mostly a victim of circumstance and her own misconceptions.  I don't want that anymore.  Now I want Tomoko to wake the **** up and get over herself.  Now she's a victim of her own stupidity, stubbornness, and jealousy.  She is no longer a pitiable character to me.  She's repugnant.

From what I've seen and heard about -I'm no expert on this- Tomoko seems to suffer from Social Anxiety Disorder (SAD) and depression (But mostly SAD) and it isn't as simple as saying to someone to get over it. Well, you can say that, but chances are that won't end pretty. For her defense, when she finds her brother's diary, she realizes she's been a bitch, hence why she leaves that cicada shell on his desk, because in her own twisted (and sad) way she sees that as an apology. This leads to the meteor shower seeing scene, where she laments why she is alone, which also subtly reveals that she knows why she is alone. That for me what was made her sad. Is she going to wake up next morning and change? Hell no. But I don't think its because she's stupid. She's just wired that way. And it is not like I wasn't hating her for a the first half of this episode, I was. It also doesn't help that her parents seem to be in denial and her only other family member who knows how she really is, Tomoki, is to young to deal with this sh*t.

In a nutshell though, I guess you can say that makes Watamote a really good show, since it can create this kind of discussion.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2013, 08:21:41 PM by MCAL »

Offline TypicalIdiotFan

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Re: Watashi ga Motenai no wa dō Kangaetemo Omaera ga Warui
« Reply #50 on: September 03, 2013, 09:33:01 PM »
I understand the SAD part, and that is what is screwing her up with making any kind of headway with strangers.  Her defense mechanism for her own ineptitude is to blame everybody else (hence the show's title).  But that really doesn't excuse her home life at all, nor does it excuse her blatant lack of common sense when it comes to expectations.  In the former, her mother is pretty damned frustrated with how lazy her daughter is.  The videos and snippets we've gotten to see of young Tomoko makes me wonder where the hell everything went wrong.  She used to be a rather normal little girl.  I know people change when puberty hits, but she has completely forgotten, or utterly dismissed, what she used to be.  Yeah, she finally comes to a realization that she's been a **** to her brother, but that has nothing to do with her mental disorders.  Her ability to operate at home is fairly normal, except she takes her sibling rivalry, coupled with her own social problems, to a rather hefty extreme.

I've said this before, but she basically abuses her support structure, or doesn't bother to use it at all.  Yuu-chan is rarely used to actually help her deal with her issues.  The one time she asked her friend for some advice, it turned out badly, which is too bad.  But how many times has she reached out to Yuu for advice or help?  More often than not, her envy of her friend gets in the way.  Her inner monologues about Yuu are utterly crass, and it was only when she was fearing the worst (that their friendship was over because of HOW TOMOKO HAS BEEN ACTING) that she reflected upon her own callous behavior.

In fact, this entire episode was about Tomoko getting wake-up calls that she has been a terrible human being.  Though I am still not entirely sure she has made any kind of realization about how shitty she is to her own mother.  I know we all take our moms for granted, but Tomoko's level of immaturity towards her was appalling.  She even goes so far as to state, earnestly (thus, without any kind of attempt at being disingenuous), that her parents (read: mom) are still supposed to be taking care of Tomoko's room cleaning duties.  She's a high school girl, who wants the mature high school life, but can't be bothered to accept maturity at home.

As for the expectations part, she lives in fantasy land way too often.  She imagines that whatever she does will turn out to be some kind of anime / manga / VN trope infused spectacle with her as a fanciful center-stage star.  Then, when nothing goes the way she thinks, she gets so incredibly down that she just runs away from whatever she was doing.  She asked her mom for help in getting her a job involving cakes.  She was very adamant about cakes, because of her fantasies.  Reality hits her in the face, and she has nobody to blame but herself.  Then she just quits the job rather than keep at it to see if it will be any better later.  Sure, it isn't working within her version of reality, but that doesn't mean you can't experience things to try to make the most of it.  Hell, those coworkers just might be a source of wisdom for her to explore.  Does she take the opportunity?  Of course not, because her dreams are dashed.

Look, I get that Tomoko has problems, and they are easy to sympathize with, but she HAS to take steps on her own to get over these issues.  Even if she never develops any kind of social skills, she still has to improve her familial situation.  There's no excuse for being a dick of a family member.
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Offline Marid King

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Re: Watashi ga Motenai no wa dō Kangaetemo Omaera ga Warui
« Reply #51 on: September 04, 2013, 01:58:17 AM »
I've stopped viewing, but I'm not so sure I'd be as hard on her. Her parents cleaned her room for her; if you're not particularly sensitive or clever, your parents never correct your mistake, and you never meet enough people to find counter examples, stupid assumptions like this can form. For a somewhat different example, just look at some of the ridiculousness silly rich people get up to at times. For similar reasons, I can guess why she isn't making efforts to solve her personal issues; because she doesn't realize that they are the problem. Instead she focuses on what she wants and doesn't have, and honestly I think that's something most people are guilty of. It's not surprising that you might ignore opportunities, if you're blinded by ignorance or hubris, or are simply being dumb for the moment. Again, something that happens to me all the time. Tomoko might be near the worst end of the spectrum for all of these things at once, but from the episodes I watched and the manga chapters I read, I could easily identify the shadows of her thinking in the back of my own mind, and that's what made watching this series so gut-wrenching for me. I don't know how people who really have it together might view this, but that's my perspective.   

 

« Last Edit: September 04, 2013, 02:09:25 AM by Marid King »
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Offline MCAL

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Re: Watashi ga Motenai no wa dō Kangaetemo Omaera ga Warui
« Reply #52 on: September 04, 2013, 08:14:43 AM »
And to add to that. I understand the Tomoko being a bitch thing. Because that's exactly what I felt about her in the first half. It's just that after seeing her at her most vulnerable wanting something (company) that she'll never get, that is where I start feeling sad. Or maybe one could see it as pathetic. Either way, there is some sort of empathy involved. And apparently in the manga she even contemplates suicide during the meteor scene (Which was cut for obvious reasons), so the ability to feel sad for her is even worse IMHO.

Offline Pebble

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Re: Watashi ga Motenai no wa dō Kangaetemo Omaera ga Warui
« Reply #53 on: September 04, 2013, 09:45:36 AM »
Tomoko might be near the worst end of the spectrum for all of these things at once, but from the episodes I watched and the manga chapters I read, I could easily identify the shadows of her thinking in the back of my own mind, and that's what made watching this series so gut-wrenching for me.

That pretty much nails it on the head. I'm not too sure whether the show's decision to keep these as just shadows and keep Tomoko as the extreme end of all these things is helpful to the experience or not.

It makes it easier to distance yourself from Tomoko, however, that's because we find her so repugnant. Since in the very beginnning, its established that Tomoko has herself convinced that "I'm not like them(unpopular girls)", the moment you try to think "Im not like her(Tomoko)", you realise you're being just like her. The cycle continues.
Its an awfully cruel thing to do to a viewer, and its pretty damn unpleasant to be at the wrong end of it. Only, this unpleasantness isn't the same kind as the one Tomoko is experiencing, so while the experience is intense, its like shooting the wrong dartboard and saying you landed a bullseye on the right one.

Offline Garuda

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Re: Watashi ga Motenai no wa dō Kangaetemo Omaera ga Warui
« Reply #54 on: September 06, 2013, 05:09:56 AM »
I just catched up with the show, and somehow, it reminds me of a mix between some aspects of Nisemonogatari and Kaiji. Anyway, I think it's good and pretty witty. The last couple of episodes were also a tad emotional.

Offline MCAL

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Re: Watashi ga Motenai no wa dō Kangaetemo Omaera ga Warui
« Reply #55 on: September 10, 2013, 12:59:30 PM »
10:

Ah-hah! Look! People wanted Tomoko to suck it up and do something about her uneventful and depressing life and look what happens you monsters!! Okay... Joking aside (And that wasn't directed to anyone in this forum. Just referring to people in general) this episode just goes to prove my point. You can't help but feel sorry for Tomoko. Just way too hard not to...

And that has got be the most smooth transitioning into the opening theme ever.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2013, 02:39:21 PM by MCAL »

Offline Garuda

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Re: Watashi ga Motenai no wa dō Kangaetemo Omaera ga Warui
« Reply #56 on: September 10, 2013, 07:45:01 PM »
Yeah, the transition was great. But the episode wasn't as good as some others, even if it wasn't bad either. I especially liked the references to BR, Haruhi Suzumiya, Haganai and Picasso at the end, with the "unclear description".

Offline TypicalIdiotFan

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Re: Watashi ga Motenai no wa dō Kangaetemo Omaera ga Warui
« Reply #57 on: September 11, 2013, 02:58:58 AM »
10:

Thought this episode was rather boring, actually.  Makes me wonder if they're stalling because they don't want to get into anything major with the season coming to a close soon.
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Re: Watashi ga Motenai no wa dō Kangaetemo Omaera ga Warui
« Reply #58 on: September 17, 2013, 03:21:36 AM »
11:

Okay, NOW I feel sorry for Tomoko.  In this episode she actually tried a couple of things.  While some bad luck fell her way, and while some of her motives weren't pure (at all), she was at least engaging people through efforts.  Her loneliness came through here much more than previous episodes.

And someone finally throws her a bone.  Or a balloon, as it were.  And a hug.  D'aww.
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Offline MCAL

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Re: Watashi ga Motenai no wa dō Kangaetemo Omaera ga Warui
« Reply #59 on: September 17, 2013, 09:34:07 AM »
11:

What was I saying again... Oh yeah! Tomoko. Hard to not feel sorry for her. That's it.
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