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Author Topic: Valvrave the Liberator  (Read 44709 times)

Offline SQA

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Valvrave the Liberator
« on: April 12, 2013, 03:59:12 PM »
So, the major WTF? series of the season.

Let's recap:

- Sunrise series.
- NOT a Gundam "universe" set of series.
- Space Nazis.
- High school aged special agents... who suck at hiding the fact they're supposed to be high school students
- Big breats
- Large Cast
- Pathetic MC
- Genki girl osananajimi
- Interrupted confession?
- WAR!
- War suddenly happening at their school
- Why is there a secret research facility under a school?
- Oh yeah, we're on colonies that are setup as a Dyson Sphere, which is cool
- Dead? main girl
- Jump in the cockpit without thinking or knowing what to do!
- Someone needs to actually look at a screen rather than whine for 2 minutes
- Give up being human!
- Better check that EULA, it appears you gave up your humanity
- Victory!
- Live Streaming of combat
- Assassination!
- Vampirism?????


Okay, so... it's Gundam Wing + Gundam SEED + Code Geass + Hellsing Unlimited?   Oh, and the OP is freaking sweet.

This is SUCH a train wreck about to happen.  This should be glorious!

Offline Shadowmage

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Re: Valvrave the Liberator
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2013, 04:03:16 PM »
Sweet Jesus, did they just merge Twilight and Gundam?

I recommend Mobile Suit, RX-0 and Unicorn from the Unicorn OST.

Offline SQA

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Re: Valvrave the Liberator
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2013, 04:55:25 PM »
Hopefully it's Hellsing and not Twilight, but it looks like it.

Or he's a Zombie.

Offline Shadowmage

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Re: Valvrave the Liberator
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2013, 05:37:42 PM »
Hopefully it's Hellsing and not Twilight

Just look at all the bishounen.  It must be Twilight.

I recommend Mobile Suit, RX-0 and Unicorn from the Unicorn OST.

Offline Fumoffu!!

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Re: Valvrave the Liberator
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2013, 05:51:39 PM »
My train of thought:

“Oh, so this is an dumbass lead, at least he’s got the girl there”

“Oh he has a crush on her! That’s a surprise, would have guessed it would be the other way round”

“Aww, I quite like this girl, and their developing the romance in episode 1? That’s unusual”

“They almost confessed already? Hey that’s strange, I like it, I dislike it when they leave it to the end, and I hate how any romantic progression in mehca is usually a death fl- ............... wait ………………. OH COME ON!

*as expected she dies*
“IS IT THAT HARD TO PROPERLY INTEGRATE ROMANCE INTO MECHA? IS IT!!”

Then I went on a rampage. Damn these mecha tropes.

Offline SQA

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Re: Valvrave the Liberator
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2013, 07:19:57 PM »
BUT!

It's a Sunrise series.  No Body, No Death.   She can still come back to Bright Slap some sense into the MC, assuming he isn't eating everyone's brains.

Credit to the L-Elf guy, though.  You always double tap.  Though apparently that doesn't work on the Son of Cars.

Offline Shadowmage

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Re: Valvrave the Liberator
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2013, 07:27:16 PM »
OH COME ON!

I actually had the exact opposite train of thought because of what that event caused the MC to do.  Normally, the Gundam pilot gets on the mecha to "protect myself" or "protect everyone."  Haruto basically goes "I'M GOING TO KILL SOME MOTHER****ERS" then goes and murders five people.

I recommend Mobile Suit, RX-0 and Unicorn from the Unicorn OST.

Offline KS

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Re: Valvrave the Liberator
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2013, 10:11:05 PM »
So, the major WTF? series of the season.

Let's recap:

- Sunrise series.
- NOT a Gundam "universe" set of series.
- Space Nazis.
- High school aged special agents... who suck at hiding the fact they're supposed to be high school students
- Big breats
- Large Cast
- Pathetic MC
- Genki girl osananajimi
- Interrupted confession?
- WAR!
- War suddenly happening at their school
- Why is there a secret research facility under a school?
- Oh yeah, we're on colonies that are setup as a Dyson Sphere, which is cool
- Dead? main girl
- Jump in the cockpit without thinking or knowing what to do!
- Someone needs to actually look at a screen rather than whine for 2 minutes
- Give up being human!
- Better check that EULA, it appears you gave up your humanity
- Victory!
- Live Streaming of combat
- Assassination!
- Vampirism?????


Okay, so... it's Gundam Wing + Gundam SEED + Code Geass + Hellsing Unlimited?   Oh, and the OP is freaking sweet.

This is SUCH a train wreck about to happen.  This should be glorious!

I absolutely loathe the term trainwreck (especially as people like to associate it with mecha action shows) and think it's such a silly mindset to watch a show in.  Like what even makes a show a "trainwreck" per se and how is it that the term cannot just be applied to everything.  What does that even mean and how do we even know what people are supposed to be implying when they say it and if it has the same implications as when another person uses it.  The internet really needs to come up with a more relateable term for whatever the **** it means by "trainwreck"

OH COME ON!

I actually had the exact opposite train of thought because of what that event caused the MC to do.  Normally, the Gundam pilot gets on the mecha to "protect myself" or "protect everyone."  Haruto basically goes "I'M GOING TO KILL SOME MOTHER****ERS" then goes and murders five people.

It's hard to be sure what to make of Haruto so far.  I think the second episode is going to tell where he actually stands.  I really do hope they opt for the classic Gundam style of initially resistant pilot that gradually sees the necessity of being a part of the conflict they are in instead of another Shu or Kio type that can barely function as an effective fighter unless their hawt girlfriend goads them into fighting.  This is more so for the former, but yeah it's really time for a break from the wishy washy straight through to the end types and a return of the reluctant yet also willing fighter if for no other reason than the execution of the former usually ends up being very poor and borderline illogical within the framework of a given story.  It's REALLY hard and honestly probably impossible to do a show about war and have the main character not actually be involved in the fight with all they can muster by at least the halfway point.  I think the only time I've seen this done well is Turn A Gundam, though it should be mentioned that the writer for this is also the writer for that show so I guess if anyone could pull it off if it does come to that it would be him.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2013, 10:19:58 PM by KS »

Offline SQA

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Re: Valvrave the Liberator
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2013, 04:53:19 PM »
@KS:

Space Nazis.
EULAs that give up your humanity.

This has train wreck written all over it.  But it can avoid being a train wreck by being over the top.  Code Geass and Jojo's Bizarre Adventure both work well in this way.   If the series takes itself "seriously", it's going to be on the Guilty Crown trajectory (which actually didn't lose itself until the 2nd cour).

Offline KS

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Re: Valvrave the Liberator
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2013, 08:43:08 PM »
@KS:

Space Nazis.
EULAs that give up your humanity.

This has train wreck written all over it.  But it can avoid being a train wreck by being over the top.  Code Geass and Jojo's Bizarre Adventure both work well in this way.   If the series takes itself "seriously", it's going to be on the Guilty Crown trajectory (which actually didn't lose itself until the 2nd cour).

I literally have absolutely no idea what you're even trying to say here so I think we'll just leave that part of the discussion at this.  :o

Though I will just add that I thought Guilty Crown was pretty much junk from about the 2nd episode onward due to it's complete and utter inability to maintain even a shred of consistency within the plot or characters development from episode to episode.  Felt like every episode of that was a semi-reboot on the story.  That was like a year and a half ago though and the whole "OMG this series is teh next Guilty Crowns!!!!!1111" thing is starting to get a little old in my book.  Especially because it comes up for like every other action oriented sci-fi show now.  ::)
« Last Edit: April 13, 2013, 08:49:10 PM by KS »

Offline SQA

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Re: Valvrave the Liberator
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2013, 09:42:54 PM »
Guilty Crown had problems from the beginning, but it actually did get into a little bit of an grove going into the cour-ending first arc.  The loss of Dan Eagleman was a sad moment.  But it wasn't what we knew Guilty Crown to end up being.  That started in ep 13, and completed its place in infamy with ep 16.   There's a difference between being not good or bad (there's a bunch of those every season, though not quite with the production values/visual staff as Guilty Crown), and just going over the edge into complete incoherence.  Shuu ended up our Hilter-Messiah by the end of the series.   That's a train wreck.

Space Nazis:  See 8s into ep 1.  gg wasn't just trolling.

The EULA, which you find out about AFTER "resigning" your humanity:

Quote
1. We are not responsible for your safety in cases where your physiology was incompatible with the system.

2. All the actions of the mecha are under the control and responsibility of the pilot. Any changes to the pilot's body is entirely the responsibility of the pilot, the organisation is not to be blamed.

3. Once you are recorded as the designated pilot, you give up your rights to refuse orders from the organisation.

4. All data from the mecha and biological information of the pilot are the property of the organisation and is sent to us.

5. Once the pilot is registered, We reserve the right to kill the pilot at any time.

This could be awesome.  But if it tries to do the "I'm serious business" style that Gundam series are want to fall into, it's going to be a complete joke.  But if it tries to be more Code Geass, then it can work.  The series was pounding a complete LACK of subtlety into us in ep 1.   You can't suddenly do calm and understated after you've gone that way.   Compare this to Suisei no Gargantia, for instance.     This is why I said if the series wants to be something in the vein of Code Geass or Jojo's (which is really just the progenitor to the stupidly-over-the-top shounen series), then it could be a fun time.  If it wavers, it simply won't work.

Offline KS

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Re: Valvrave the Liberator
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2013, 10:47:36 PM »
Guilty Crown had problems from the beginning, but it actually did get into a little bit of an grove going into the cour-ending first arc.  The loss of Dan Eagleman was a sad moment.  But it wasn't what we knew Guilty Crown to end up being.  That started in ep 13, and completed its place in infamy with ep 16.   There's a difference between being not good or bad (there's a bunch of those every season, though not quite with the production values/visual staff as Guilty Crown), and just going over the edge into complete incoherence.  Shuu ended up our Hilter-Messiah by the end of the series.   That's a train wreck.

Space Nazis:  See 8s into ep 1.  gg wasn't just trolling.

The EULA, which you find out about AFTER "resigning" your humanity:

Quote
1. We are not responsible for your safety in cases where your physiology was incompatible with the system.

2. All the actions of the mecha are under the control and responsibility of the pilot. Any changes to the pilot's body is entirely the responsibility of the pilot, the organisation is not to be blamed.

3. Once you are recorded as the designated pilot, you give up your rights to refuse orders from the organisation.

4. All data from the mecha and biological information of the pilot are the property of the organisation and is sent to us.

5. Once the pilot is registered, We reserve the right to kill the pilot at any time.

This could be awesome.  But if it tries to do the "I'm serious business" style that Gundam series are want to fall into, it's going to be a complete joke.  But if it tries to be more Code Geass, then it can work.  The series was pounding a complete LACK of subtlety into us in ep 1.   You can't suddenly do calm and understated after you've gone that way.   Compare this to Suisei no Gargantia, for instance.     This is why I said if the series wants to be something in the vein of Code Geass or Jojo's (which is really just the progenitor to the stupidly-over-the-top shounen series), then it could be a fun time.  If it wavers, it simply won't work.

Yeah I agree.  I would hope it doesn't try to be like Gundam cause I don't think it's built for that sort of thing at all.

And yeah I think Guilty Crown was derpy during the first half but had some semblance of internal consistency other than Shuu's flipping back and forth between episodes and apparently resetting to weak willed.  The second half was certainly unique......

Offline SQA

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Re: Valvrave the Liberator
« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2013, 01:43:32 PM »
We don't need to rehash Guilty Crown, but they were actually playing with Shuu having PTSD.  If you watched his reactions/actions through most of the first half, you could seem something of that narrative.  Then he became Hilter.    The first 1/2 of Guilty Crown was a 5; mediocre but pretty.   The second 1/2 is an all-time disaster.

Now, with Valvrave, since we've introduced either Vampires or Zombies, it's got a world of possible options.  It is also a split-cour series, so there is no excuse for a writing disaster like Guilty Crown.

Offline Kiniest

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Re: Valvrave the Liberator
« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2013, 03:02:24 PM »
1: I'm going to refrain from commenting on this since I have no experience in Mecha, but from how you guys are describing it, this seems a little convoluted compared to other mechs?

And the ending... what the actual ****?
harvey beaks is the best anime

Offline SQA

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Re: Valvrave the Liberator
« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2013, 03:53:47 PM »
1: I'm going to refrain from commenting on this since I have no experience in Mecha, but from how you guys are describing it, this seems a little convoluted compared to other mechs?

And the ending... what the actual ****?

Understanding Mecha's main tropes isn't too hard:

1a) Unintended, world-beater pilot. ==  Normally hops in the Mecha by chance/to save his friends. 

1b) Hot-shot pilot that gets a vehicle upgrade.   == Extra points if the mecha is a revolutionary design and made with some new material.

2) Your Villain has to be the hottest guy around.  == Hi Char, version 476.  Points if he's also nearly gay.

3) No body, no death.  ==  This comes up all of the time.

4) Physical abuse.  == Look up "Bright Slap".

5) If your director is depressed, everyone is going to die.  == E.g. Ideon.  (There's a reason he's called Kill'em All Tomimo)

6) If Gundam series, has "non-Jedi Jedi".  == Pretty much every Gundam series but MS 8th Team.

Those are the main tropes.  Passed those, it's just military science fiction.  The ones that work break the mold pretty hard, but still play with those tropes.

For Valvrave's starting aspects, the issue is that our MC doesn't actually have any drive to do what needs to be done.  In most Mecha series, they're already driven people.  The counter-example is Shinji from NGE, but he was designed *intentionally* to circumvent the setup.  Which is also why the world ended.    Here, it's short term revenge, and it now looks like Zombie powers or something will keep him going.  This doesn't appear to be completely a fight for survival (which is common) or fighting to run away or fighting for a cause.  His cause is now over: he got revenge. 

It's not that our MC is a self-insert type, it's that the emotional beats were played like Obon drums into our head, but since this all happened in ep 1, we don't really get the impact.  So it's hard to see how this gets carried forward without being a drag on the series.  He was pressed into fighting by terror, which isn't a good place to work a full 26 episode series from.   It doesn't help that Dead Girl seemed to have the most personality of the entire cast.

No one has a clue what that ending was about.
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