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Author Topic: Hyouka  (Read 27987 times)

Offline SQA

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Re: Hyouka
« Reply #75 on: August 13, 2012, 03:56:29 PM »
It wasn't dealing with "genius", it was "Skill" vs "Natural Talent".  No amount of work & love of a skill set can really overcome someone is a massively greater natural talent for it.   What most of them needed to come to grips with is that there's nothing wrong with that reality, even if it can hurt.

Oh, and Mayaka's arc was a little confusing until the resolution.  Mayaka had been, accidentally, knifing her senpai in the back on the topic of manga masterpieces.  She responded in much the way most high school girls actually do.  It might seem weaker from a story telling stand point, but that's a very realistic take on how girls that age operate.  They're pretty petty about things.

In the end, this was a pretty awesome arc.  Never actually felt like I'd attended a cultural festival in an anime before.  The entire setting was fully realized and you felt like you were there. The "mysteries" in Hyouka aren't really all that "deep" or "serious".  This just fit in with that theme.  There's no murder mysteries in the offering here.

Offline Reckoner

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Re: Hyouka
« Reply #76 on: August 13, 2012, 05:52:47 PM »
Chitanda's arc was bad, but the others were great. Hyouka develop really slowly, and you should know that by now.

Has nothing to do with being slow. I don't see Hyouka as a slow show.

It wasn't dealing with "genius", it was "Skill" vs "Natural Talent".  No amount of work & love of a skill set can really overcome someone is a massively greater natural talent for it.   What most of them needed to come to grips with is that there's nothing wrong with that reality, even if it can hurt.

Oh, and Mayaka's arc was a little confusing until the resolution.  Mayaka had been, accidentally, knifing her senpai in the back on the topic of manga masterpieces.  She responded in much the way most high school girls actually do.  It might seem weaker from a story telling stand point, but that's a very realistic take on how girls that age operate.  They're pretty petty about things.

In the end, this was a pretty awesome arc.  Never actually felt like I'd attended a cultural festival in an anime before.  The entire setting was fully realized and you felt like you were there. The "mysteries" in Hyouka aren't really all that "deep" or "serious".  This just fit in with that theme.  There's no murder mysteries in the offering here.

Not seeing the difference between natural talent and genius, but OK. Semantics.

I know perfectly well what the arc was communicating, but having every single portion of the arc (Perhaps besides Chitanda) converging on that very same point felt overly redundant and uninteresting.

Whether Mayaka's arc was realistic or not wasn't the point, but more so that it didn't bring her character anywhere interesting for me and the conclusion to it didn't do anything for me.

Yes the strength of this arc was how immersed you could feel in the cultural festival, but for a pretty character driven show I'm mostly going to evaluate it on how I felt the character development was. On that front, only Satoshi really hit home for me. I liked most of the episodes except the conclusion, which is what I stated having issues with.

Offline Major Tom

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Re: Hyouka
« Reply #77 on: August 13, 2012, 07:09:13 PM »
Just an observation (and probably pretty obvious), but I got the distinct impression that Kouchi and Anjou didn't part on good terms, and something about Dead at Dusk was probably the issue.  Maybe because Kouchi wasn't invited to be on the team, but she was wrong about something and finishing that manga will only confirm it to her (from what she said, I'm pretty sure Kouchi didn't think Anjou could write a good story without her).  And it seems it blew up to a point where just calling her up and apologising wont fix things.  So Mayaka banging on about Dead at Dusk really hurt because she lost a friend over that.

Offline AC

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Re: Hyouka
« Reply #78 on: August 13, 2012, 07:52:53 PM »
17:

Chitanda's arc was probably the weakest. It didn't really do anything for the story, and kinda got overshadowed by the other arcs. Mayaka's arc, well, to be honest I didn't really understand why she was feeling very anxious right from the start of the arc. Right now, it looks like Mayaka is this junior student who is constantly looking up to her seniors and want to defend them (or more specifically, their work) when some injustice is observed. As for Satoshi, I got it wrong. I said before that he was hoping that Houtarou would solve the problem, but it's supposed to be the other way round. He does look up to him, but at the same time he may not want to be doing this all the time. Perhaps he recognizes just how talented Houtarou really is, more than Houtarou realizes.

I think the arc's overall theme of recognising talent and the differences between people is well-executed. Started out as something straight out of a detective novel, while at the same time weaves the idea of exploring talent right from the onset. And best of all, KyoAni didn't try to visually show off this time (did anyone notice this?).

Offline SQA

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Re: Hyouka
« Reply #79 on: August 13, 2012, 08:52:29 PM »
All of the KyoAni flare went into Satoshi's spinning Saturen-Head.

Offline The Big Guy

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Re: Hyouka
« Reply #80 on: August 13, 2012, 09:26:52 PM »
Quote
Chitanda's arc was probably the weakest. It didn't really do anything for the story, and kinda got overshadowed by the other arcs.

I agree with you on this, but I also think it was necessary because she needs some form of development. For the first two arcs she was a walking plot device who gets the story going and otherwise plays no significant role. At least now she is more of an actual character who deals with her own problems even if it is still tangential to the overall plot line. Also, there is no guarantee that this arc (and Mayaka's arc, which I agree doesn't show any meaningful growth) doesn't come back up later on in the show. For example, Satoshi's budding jealousy of Oreki was hinted at significantly in the EBA arc, but was only fully explored and resolved here. In which case it probably would be wise to hold off on judgments on character development until the very end, especially there are two books remaining to adapt.

Quote
And best of all, KyoAni didn't try to visually show off this time (did anyone notice this?).

I did actually, and it makes sense considering the series is now at full steam. Something needed to keep the viewer's interest during the boring setup episodes, and now the characters are starting to take the spotlight over the mysteries themselves so the flashing visuals are less important. It's certainly a good thing.
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Offline TypicalIdiotFan

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Re: Hyouka
« Reply #81 on: August 13, 2012, 11:27:52 PM »
Only thing I want to say about the Chitanda arc is that while she seems to be going along with the other character's arcs similar theme (not being as good as someone else), in the end she actually isn't.  The other characters are actually bothered by the fact that they can't be as good as the people they look up to, but Chitanda doesn't have that problem.  I don't think that it required Irisu to tell her that she wasn't good at manipulating people Irisu's way as Chitanda seemed to be aware of it.  Going along with that, this doesn't BOTHER Chitanda as it does the others.  She's not disappointed that she can't do what Irisu does.  In this way, she is a bit of a contrast, though I wonder why her discussion was placed FIRST amongst the resolutions.

I think, though, that by the end, none of the four really ended up as negative as they started.  Even Tanabe Jiro, who when he was talking to Oreki, seemed completely disappointed that the target of his Juumonji code didn't "get it", ends up realizing that the target DID get the message.  Maybe the point was actually to contrast those who were able to move past their problems with those who weren't.  This would explain why we see Chitanda, Tanabe, and Satoshi all end up being "okay" with things, but Kouchi not.  Of the four, Kouchi is the only one who can't, or refuses to move forward.
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Offline Sorrows Neptune

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Re: Hyouka
« Reply #82 on: August 16, 2012, 12:45:54 AM »
17:

I must say, this arc has improved on virtually every aspect of the series that I had a problem with. The mystery was actually interesting, the characters were a lot less shallow, and it was even exciting as a slice-of-life drama-comedy.

It's ironic how a few episodes, I was praising the arc for focusing more on the characterization and slice-of-life elements, when later on it ended up being the mystery plot that defined it.

Offline AC

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Re: Hyouka
« Reply #83 on: August 20, 2012, 07:58:16 PM »
18:

Houtarou is KININARIMASU!? OMGrageface.jpg

It's interesting to see that Houtarou has somewhat developed because of Chitanda. He recognizes how he owes her one for wanting to tag along and help out his personal curiosity, but I'm not sure if he realizes that he has changed a little because of her influence in solving a case through understanding people's emotions. Not about him being more proactive than before per se, but how his perspective has widened.

Offline The Big Guy

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Re: Hyouka
« Reply #84 on: August 29, 2012, 02:17:36 AM »
18:

I have to say, the chemistry between the cast is growing at a exponential pace, and the show is knocking my socks off more and more with each episode. This was probably the best stand alone episode so far, mostly because we get to see how the relationship of Chitanda and Oreki has progressed from the beginning of the show by leaps and bounds.
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Offline AC

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Re: Hyouka
« Reply #85 on: August 29, 2012, 08:09:06 AM »
19:

An episode entirely about two people getting at each other over a detective game of deductions... impressive.

The only problem was the ol' Kyoto Animation trying to visually show off again. Kinda thought that things would've been less jarring if the visual representation had been less fancy so that more concentration can be on the deductive dialogue. Other than that, it's interesting to see how this detective game is different because the game's direction and restrictions are determined by likelihood, while previous ones are determined by the respective situations themselves.

Not bad, Hyouka. Good one on you.

Offline TypicalIdiotFan

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Re: Hyouka
« Reply #86 on: September 05, 2012, 02:10:34 AM »
20:

They spent far more time on explaining why it is they just couldn't do the most obvious thing to get out of the shed than actually doing what was necessary to get out of the shed.  When you have to write half the episode just to placate the overzealous retards who will ask endless numbers of questions regarding plot holes... y'know overzealous retards like ME... then maybe... just maybe... us overzealous retards are just ruining things.

Nah.
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Offline SQA

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Re: Hyouka
« Reply #87 on: September 05, 2012, 08:42:06 AM »
Apparently the episode is cannon and fairly accurate to the story in the novel.  But, at the same time, when there's a blatantly obvious solution to a problem that you don't want to use for narrative reasons, you need at least some hand-wavable excuse.

Offline TypicalIdiotFan

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Re: Hyouka
« Reply #88 on: September 05, 2012, 02:22:10 PM »
No no, that's just it.  It wasn't a hand-waving excuse at all because they put so much damned time into explaining why it would be a problem for Chitanda.  They made the excuse believable enough by covering all the bases.  They also made sure that, despite the problems it would cause, that they would use that way to get out if they had no other choice.  I'm fine with that.  I just found it hilarious.  It felt more like the author had been reading the Muv-Luv threads and made ****ing sure there were no holes to poke in this plot.

Took so much time on it that the episode was mostly over by the time they got to exploring other options.  Just made me laugh, despite myself.
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Offline SQA

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Re: Hyouka
« Reply #89 on: September 05, 2012, 10:58:02 PM »
Ah, okay.  Well, it's a logical, real-world set, small mysteries series.  Houtarou is supposed to be Holmes.  So, the author wouldn't be able to get away with anything cheap like missing the blatantly obvious solutions.

Though they did miss one.  They could have called out and had one of them hide, then come back 5 minutes later.  Though there would have been a risk of being seen... given Chitanda and "hiding" don't really mix well.
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