Fate/Zero

[Shadowmage]

17

Oh wow. Kirei, you fabulous bastard, that was cold.  So cold.

[AC]

17:

Kirei got the job done LIKE A BOSS.

[Sorrow-kun]

Ep 17

It wasn't so much the betrayal itself which was shocking (everyone who'd seen F/SN knew it was coming), it was just how dirty it was.  A literal backstab.  Kiritsugu's actions were shocking enough in the previous episode, but he didn't owe anything to Kayneth.  Kirei just killed his own teacher after revealing with no uncertainty that he also wanted to kill his father.  He's a much deeper character here than he ever was in F/SN.

Bravo to the show's director as well.  That scene where Kirei and Gilgamesh conspired to kill Tokiomi was so well executed.

[Flash Sword Irene]

Episode 17

The story of how Gilgamesh and Kirei became partners in crime is awesome as hell.  Not to mention, the facial expressions for Kirei were quite entertaining including that deathly smile.  Really, if Kirei is not even considered as a candidate for best villian of the year, then something is damningly wrong.

[AC]

18:

Oh, so that's what happened to Emiya.

To be honest, Emiya's story didn't impress me that much. It was decent, but the whole idea of losing someone dear to you and a vampire outbreak just seem banal to me. I just couldn't empathize with the fact that Emiya has lost someone so precious to him that it drove him into killing his own dad. The only high point was when his dad gave a (predictably) apathetic response to Shirley's death. Typically scientific deduction, much.

But hmm, it would have been awesome if the story had been as impactful as say, Homura's rationale in Madoka Magica. There's still a continuation to the exploration of his past, so let's see what drives him into becoming a Mage killer.

[Reckoner]

I think the main point of the episode was that because Kiritsugu let Shirley live when she asked him to kill her, it led to the destruction of the entire village though he could've prevented it. His kill one to save 100 philosophy stems all from this. It wasn't simply about encountering destruction, it's about having the resolve to carry out what's best for everybody and in this way he failed to save anyone because of it. Him killing his Dad was his next logical step in his progression, to prevent more incidents like this he will do what needs to be done with his own hands. This is his form of justice.

[Shadowmage]

18

Well, this episode I've learned that Kiritsugu is batshit crazy.  I thought his devotion to justice was due to trauma from being a child soldier of fortune or something.  This episode showed that it's just a part in his nature... like Shirou from Fate/Stay Night.  I come to this conclusion because I honestly don't think an average person would kill his/her parent for indirectly causing the death of hundreds.  Yes, his father indicated that he was grooming Shirley for possible zombification at a later date, but you need to make some massive logical jumps in the train of thought of "Shirley stole my father's magic medicine and caused the death of everyone on the island, therefore my father should die so that such tragedies will not happen again." 

Kiritsugu doesn't just think that the appropriate ends will justify the means.  From what I see, he judges the ends with almost no consideration of the means. 

[Flash Sword Irene]

Episode 18

That explains quite a bit about why Kiritsugu is the way he is.  If Shirou really knew how about what his father went through, it makes me wonder if his views would be different?  The next episode should be quite interesting

[The Big Guy]

18:

Got to love how this show ties in all of the elements from past Type Moon works effortlessly and without much exposition. First Akasha and the Great Holy Grail in the last episode (unless you watched Kara No Kyoukai, and read Heaven's Feel, that whole conversation between Kirei and Gilgamesh went right over your head), and now Dead Apostles from Tsukihime. It really does reward the people who went through the rest of Type Moon's works, and yet is accessible enough to not detract from the newer viewer's experience of the show. Well done.

Spoiler for Hiden:

Also, this episode answers one of the questions I've been wondering about since the beginning, why did the Einzberns hire Kiritsugu in the first place? The answer is that both families, the Emiya and the Einzberns, strive for immortality albeit through different means. The Einzberns (and the Matou as well) try to obtain immortality through separation of the soul from the body, while the Emiya had tried to turn humans into True Ancestors (I assume, because the failed attempt turned people into Dead Apostles). Ironically, the three families succeed in obtaining immortality in the end, but to none of their benefits, as the only one who becomes immortal is Shirou who doesn't care for any of them. Cool stuff.   

[Sorrow-kun]

18:

Got to love how this show ties in all of the elements from past Type Moon works effortlessly and without much exposition. First Akasha and the Great Holy Grail in the last episode (unless you watched Kara No Kyoukai, and read Heaven's Feel, that whole conversation between Kirei and Gilgamesh went right over your head), and now Dead Apostles from Tsukihime. It really does reward the people who went through the rest of Type Moon's works, and yet is accessible enough to not detract from the newer viewer's experience of the show. Well done.

Also, an old friend from Kara no Kyoukai.



Edit: I assume this is from before he went insane and become obsessed with killing a so-called "dirty red".

[TypicalIdiotFan]

18:

I honestly didn't expect this episode, though the climax of the last episode dictated it should be so.  There's an awful lot still we need to figure out before we can truly understand everything Kiritsugu is compared to what his son, Shirou, will be.  The Kiritsugu we saw in Fate / Stay NIght, albeit briefly, was not really someone who seemed completely consumed with his hatred of mages, though perhaps he was just hiding it really well.  I am concerned about a timeline discrepancy, though, as Rin and Sakura are both already born, so Shirou should as well, but we haven't seen him yet, and he has lots of fond memories growing up of his dad, right up to the disaster that would consume him and the city which was supposed to be the climax of the last Grail War.  I'm not saying we need to see Shirou, it's just interesting that, so far, Zero is only giving us one side of Kiritsugu (the business end), while not giving us the other side (the man who loves his kids, though we did get some shots of him and Illya earlier).  Perhaps they wont, either, and just leave the moments between Shirou and Kiritsugu for Stay Night only.  It would be an interesting way to do a "dual perspective", with, as Obi-Wan Kenobi put it, things told from a "certain point of view".

As for the episode, I also found Kiritsugu's turning on his father to be a bit premature, if the narratives we were given were all there was.  IE, there's more to the relationship he has with his dad than we were told about.  Something tells me this isn't the first time his dad has done something his son loathes, and while the first time can be explained away, being callous about the death of a young girl that Kiritsugu was quite obviously in love with would push anybody over the edge.  Problem is, he makes the choice to kill his dad before he finds out about his dad's attitude.  So, something wasn't being told to us.

Lastly, while I'm not a fan of Takeuchi's character designs, there is something incredibly attractive about how ufotable does the female figure.  Doing a quick rundown of their anime works, aside from Manabi Straight which featured some intentionally unusual designs, I can't find a single one where I didn't like how they draw women.  Don't know what it is.

[The Big Guy]

Spoiler for Hiden:

Shirou is adopted, his parents die in the fire at the climax. That's why you won't see him until the end of the series. 

[TypicalIdiotFan]

I don't think that's a spoiler because I think we knew that from Fate Stay Night.  Doesn't change the fact that, by now, because of Shirou's memories of Kiritsugu, he should be in the picture, even if off-camera.

[The Big Guy]

Now I'm just confused. If I'm reading this correctly, you're saying that they were already father and son at this point, and that they should spend time together. However, Shirou doesn't becomes Kiritsugu's son until after the disaster, in fact they don't even meet until that point as far as I know. He may show up at some point for foreshadowing or something, but certainly not for scenes you are talking about (unless there are flash forwards, but I somehow doubt it).

[TypicalIdiotFan]

Admittedly it's been a while since I watched Fate / Stay Night, so maybe I'm remembering details wrong.  If you say he adopted Shirou after the disaster, then that shoots my whole thing to hell.  And since I can't remember the timeline of events, I'm probably wrong.