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Author Topic: Infinite Stratos  (Read 59113 times)

Offline Kylaran

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Re: Infinite Stratos
« Reply #30 on: January 09, 2011, 11:49:58 PM »
In a class full of Japanese kids. It's so absurd that I just can't get over it. I honestly don't see the point of that if not either some slight at the (incorrectly) perceived nationalism of British people or some dog whistle to the audience. If British people were so full of pride in the world of IS, then as TIF said, why don't they have their own academies instead of learning Japanese and going to Japan to learn?

Well, yes, it is absurd she'd say that. Which is why no one disagrees that the characters seem quite typical. The better way to perceive her behavior is that she's just a stuck up foreigner who has a superiority complex about her own country -- which is a pretty standard trope in Japan. And the predictable development in the plot is that she learns to accept Ichika and perhaps develops a respect for Japan. Maybe, just maybe, that might be a message that the authors want to point out at the end? Of course, it's an extremely unrealistic portrayal of nationalism, but I'm willing to bet there might be a reason why only Japan has an IS academy. Perhaps we just need to wait and see if they give a reason for it?

Sigh, you people and your "it's unbelievable because it's so unrealistic" nonsense. :P
« Last Edit: January 10, 2011, 01:42:53 AM by Kylaran »

Offline zzeroparticle

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Re: Infinite Stratos
« Reply #31 on: January 10, 2011, 01:11:54 AM »
I think people would be more willing to give IS the benefit of the doubt (your points are valid after all) if the first episode showed signs of ambition beyond le harem generique.  As it stands, I'm not terribly optimistic about its ability to answer those questions satisfactorily.

Offline Fumoffu!!

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Re: Infinite Stratos
« Reply #32 on: January 10, 2011, 06:41:04 AM »
Man, it almost feels that this is getting more discussion than it deserves. :D

I'd say so, 3 pages have already been written when only the first episode has been released. It's telling of how many people this show has pissed off.


Even so, I doubt even the worst of them would have the gall to say this:





In a class full of Japanese kids. It's so absurd that I just can't get over it. I honestly don't see the point of that if not either some slight at the (incorrectly) perceived nationalism of British people or some dog whistle to the audience. If British people were so full of pride in the world of IS, then as TIF said, why don't they have their own academies instead of learning Japanese and going to Japan to learn?

This is just retarded. As already said, this class is made up of a majority of Japanese people. Does Cecilia want to alienate herself, and become a friendless snobby bitch. Does she have a strong desire to be beaten up, because it looks like it. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't go into a class filled with Japanese people and then insult Japan. Perhaps she's trying to show how superior she is, as in she doesn't care what any of those low-life Japanese people think of her, as their opinion is inconsequential. In any case, attributing rash over the top Patriotism to someone supposedly British is insulting, but perhaps it just needed to be some foreigner, and Britain was the country drawn out the hat.

I have to say, if not for anything else, this show is providing me with entertainment and interest with this discussion. The entertainment isn't in the episode, but in the discussion afterwards so to speak.

Offline hoarfrost

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Re: Infinite Stratos
« Reply #33 on: January 10, 2011, 10:53:40 AM »
In a class full of Japanese kids. It's so absurd that I just can't get over it. I honestly don't see the point of that if not either some slight at the (incorrectly) perceived nationalism of British people or some dog whistle to the audience. If British people were so full of pride in the world of IS, then as TIF said, why don't they have their own academies instead of learning Japanese and going to Japan to learn?

Well, yes, it is absurd she'd say that. Which is why no one disagrees that the characters seem quite typical. The better way to perceive her behavior is that she's just a stuck up foreigner who has a superiority complex about her own country -- which is a pretty standard trope in Japan. And the predictable development in the plot is that she learns to accept Ichika and perhaps develops a respect for Japan. Maybe, just maybe, that might be a message that the authors want to point out at the end? Of course, it's an extremely unrealistic portrayal of nationalism, but I'm willing to bet there might be a reason why only Japan has an IS academy. Perhaps we just need to wait and see if they give a reason for it?

Sigh, you people and your "it's unbelievable because it's so unrealistic" nonsense. :P

Well, it's totally possible that there are reasonable explanations for these things. It's just that from what I've seen so far, I'm not very convinced that this will go in a very sophisticated direction at all.

Maybe I'm being too cynical here but you know what they say about being a pessimist, you're always either right or pleasantly surprised. If they attempted an explanation for why there is only an academy in Japan, why only females can pilot IS, why the MC can pilot one, or tried anything along the lines of convincing character development, I would be pleasantly surprised indeed. But for right now I think the most appropriate thing to do is to lower my expectations some and just sit back for the ride. I'm not yet at the point where I can't find entertainment in it, at least.

Offline Kylaran

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Re: Infinite Stratos
« Reply #34 on: January 10, 2011, 11:07:45 AM »
What led you to have your expectations up in the first place? I for one head into the vast majority of anime with not expectations at all.

Offline Yggberry

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Re: Infinite Stratos
« Reply #35 on: January 10, 2011, 03:23:25 PM »
Man, it almost feels that this is getting more discussion than it deserves. :D

Perhaps. Or we are all trolling here. But for now this show will remain on my must watch list for this season. And since I mentioned trolling, I'll leave with one. Am I the only one who is digging the school uniform? It's probably the best one I have seen so far. It's almost as fabulous as Kururugi Suzaku's battle suit. I would be all over Ichika too if I see the boy walking around in his uniform.

Offline TypicalIdiotFan

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Re: Infinite Stratos
« Reply #36 on: January 10, 2011, 04:34:16 PM »
It looks like a military uniform to me.

@Kylaran:

Stop busting my cynicism with rationality, dammit.  I'm having more fun being angry.
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Offline Kylaran

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Re: Infinite Stratos
« Reply #37 on: January 10, 2011, 08:14:45 PM »
It looks like a military uniform to me.

@Kylaran:

Stop busting my cynicism with rationality, dammit.  I'm having more fun being angry.

*Whistles innocently.*

On a different note, I realized the uniform is pretty cool too.

Offline The Big Guy

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Re: Infinite Stratos
« Reply #38 on: January 10, 2011, 10:09:22 PM »
I'm going to jump into the discussion of society a little too late, but why not?
Quote
Example:  Women are still women.  Even if the importance of women around the world for their ability to pilot the IS has increased, I cannot begin to imagine that it has increased that much due to the fact that no military is allowed to use the vehicle.  All the girls depicted in the first episode continue to act like... well let's face it, tropes and archetypes.  From this we can infer that the role of women in society has not changed that drastically.
First off, your assumption that the military cannot use these weapons is a little off. In which case, the production of IS's would cease and they would be useless. But it's not, and that's because militaries don't necessarily have to follow the rules. For example, just because the Kellogg Briand Pact outlawed war doesn't mean it prevented WWII. From what I understand, it didn't do much. This explains why the government has this academy, to train it's, and its allies', future killing machines in the case of war. There would be no other reason for it. As for women's behaviors, I would argue that it's biological, so it would be similar to before the introduction of IS's.

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However, since they CAN'T use them for military purposes now, what power do they really have?
To further emphasize the point from above, replace "they" with "atomic weapons" to get a decent idea of how ridiculous a statement that is. So, yeah, they still have a bit of pull, especially considering how important controlling the military is for running a nation. (There are plenty of nations that don't have militaries, but the ones that do need to control it or they won't be in power very long.)
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Offline TypicalIdiotFan

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Re: Infinite Stratos
« Reply #39 on: January 10, 2011, 10:54:09 PM »
Quote
First off, your assumption that the military cannot use these weapons is a little off.

I'm going by what the anime tells us in this case.  A negotiated treaty has banned the use of these objects in a military.  I already made the assumption that governments are probably ignoring this policy and have military grade IS systems.

Quote
To further emphasize the point from above, replace "they" with "atomic weapons" to get a decent idea of how ridiculous a statement that is.

How many atomic weapons have been used in war since countries entered into spoken or unspoken agreements not to use them.  If the IS system is on that level of dangerous, then I could see them not being used.  Moreover, any IS system used in combat by a nation that agreed to the accord would be in violation, which would mean the agreement is null and void and anybody else can use them, too.

The idea behind a weapons ban isn't to handcuff you, it's to protect you and your people from the mass destruction of a weapon.  Violating that risks another nation using those same mass destruction weapons against you.  Again, I'm not saying there aren't any militaries anywhere that don't have some sort of IS system involved, but at least publicly nobody does.  This school would not be in existence to perform clandestine training operations for soldiers.  For starters, the SOLDIERS themselves (read: students) would not all 100% go along with the idea and would probably expose the school for what it is.  You couldn't silence them all.
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Offline The Big Guy

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Re: Infinite Stratos
« Reply #40 on: January 11, 2011, 12:08:18 AM »

Quote
How many atomic weapons have been used in war since countries entered into spoken or unspoken agreements not to use them.  If the IS system is on that level of dangerous, then I could see them not being used.  Moreover, any IS system used in combat by a nation that agreed to the accord would be in violation, which would mean the agreement is null and void and anybody else can use them, too.
he idea behind a weapons ban isn't to handcuff you, it's to protect you and your people from the mass destruction of a weapon.  Violating that risks another nation using those same mass destruction weapons against you.  Again, I'm not saying there aren't any militaries anywhere that don't have some sort of IS system involved, but at least publicly nobody does./quote]
Yes, you're exactly right, and that's exactly the point I'm trying to make. If you recall, the original argument was that women don't have political clout because the IS's have no "power," and deterrence, in fact, is it's greatest strength, just like atomic weapons. They are singlehandedly preventing war in this society, which is powerful in my book. But, to maintain this peace, you must have enough IS's, and by extension pilots, to make sure that no one will attack you. Same with the arms race during the Cold War, which involved atomic weapons. And because of their importance in the military, they have more political clout than women in our society. Pretty roundabout way of explaining it, but I think it makes sense.

Quote
This school would not be in existence to perform clandestine training operations for soldiers.  For starters, the SOLDIERS themselves (read: students) would not all 100% go along with the idea and would probably expose the school for what it is.  You couldn't silence them all.
Of course, if it's covered up as a competition, it is perfectly fine. Think about the original Olympics in Greek society, that was made to help train soldiers for war. Same idea here, if a war just so happens to break out with the use of IS's, Japan and its allies will just so happen to have a large stable of IS pilots ready for war that were originally trained for the competition.
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Offline Kylaran

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Re: Infinite Stratos
« Reply #41 on: January 14, 2011, 09:35:52 AM »
Ep. 2:

So, the situation surrounding IS, its use, and the political/economic structure associated with them becomes clearer. I do believe some previous questions asked in this thread have been answered by this episode.

A few points:
1.) Most likely influenced by the original novel, the dialogue is extremely awkward. It's almost unnatural some of the comments the character makes. Ex: the question the classmate had about Houki's sister.

2.) Ichika would x999 cooler if he didn't talk so much. Not as much as Touma, but he's also no where near as cool.

3.) The whole emphasis on Houki's tsun tsun (and some dere) this episode really didn't make me like her more. I don't know why, but I thought the pacing was balanced terribly.

Offline Fumoffu!!

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Re: Infinite Stratos
« Reply #42 on: January 14, 2011, 11:45:08 AM »
2:

Surprisingly, the main protagonist won the battle against Ceiclia. Yes, technically he didn't, but as everyone here will recognise, as did most of the characters of the show, he won.

2 things that were just stupid.

What's with Houki's monologue in the changing room? You can thin about inside your head you know, you don't need to say it out loud. And given the random and embarrassing stuff she was talking about, why would you be saying it out loud. I don't know if anyone here has tried talking to themselves out loud before, but after a very short amount of time it just sounds really stupid, let alone for the length of time she was talking.

Secondly, during the battle, what the hell happened with Health and Safety? There was a robot with a massive laser gun shooting around, and down below in close proximity are people in the stands cheering/watching. There were laser beams and rockets going all over the place, did they really think this through? I imagine that there may be some invisible shield that protects them, but it sure didn't look like it.

The main protagonist Ichika is grating for me. He is a complete idiot (saying "I don't understand this at all" when the teacher had explained the basic principle behind the IS like 'The suit isn't a tool, more like a partner, you work with it, you don't use it etc.') Why was he complaining to Houki about not teaching him about the IS, why didn't he read a book on it before this all started, from what I have gathered, he knows literally nothing about the IS.

I can't believe this is only the second episode. Feels like it's been going on ages.

Offline TypicalIdiotFan

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Re: Infinite Stratos
« Reply #43 on: January 14, 2011, 12:58:05 PM »
So, the situation surrounding IS, its use, and the political/economic structure associated with them becomes clearer. I do believe some previous questions asked in this thread have been answered by this episode.

Not... really... It actually drags up more.

So there's exactly 467 ISes in the world, because apparently that's all the "cores" there are.  The "core" technology makes the IS an exclusively manufactured good of Japan.  So, proliferating these across the world was a good idea?  Going back to the atomic bomb analogy, is it really smart to spread the wealth?  Wouldn't Japan have blocked the release of technology that could be considered a seriously powerful weapon?  Back when I watched Key: The Metal Idol, they addressed the problem of Japan exporting what is basically a weapon.  The weapon itself is just a robot that can't do much without the power box, which was the trick.  They had to smuggle those out or disguise them as other objects.  But apparently in the world of IS, Japan has no problems with one of it's companies, manufacturers, or whatevers, proliferating... and remember, they pointed out to us in the first episode that a treaty was signed banning the use of these weapons for military purpose... what could be used as weaponry.  Did the treaty have to be in place first before the proliferation happened?  Did Japan keep the lions share for themselves?  How do you determine how many each country gets?  Economics?  Is it pure capitalism?  Was it arbitrary based on how Doctor Shinonono felt about the nation?

And now that she's disappeared, wouldn't that make most everybody in the world nervous?  If she's gone underground or captured by a foreign power, wouldn't that potentially destabilize the political situation of the ISes?  I find it really interesting that nobody else has figured out how to make a "core" yet, and even more interesting Japan didn't raid Dr. Shinonono's labs and take the information for themselves.  Incidentally, this is the same problem I have with "Iron Man".

Furthermore, there are a lot more than 467 students at that academy.  There's obviously not enough ISes to go around.  So training time must be a cow.  Throw in "personal" ISes (which sounds like an excuse to differentiate the mecha for the purpose of variety and ease of identification) and there's even fewer to go around.  And, judging by Ceceila Alcott's performance, she already knows how to use the damned thing quite well.  What in the hell is she going to school for?  And what the **** does a long range beam rifle, missiles, and deployed sub-units have to do with SPORTS COMPETITIONS....?  Can't use them for military purposes, but we'll let the gun and bombs slide.

Honestly, I would think that in this limited supply environment that there would be attempts to "steal" other nation's ISes running all over the place.  These things would have to be kept in the tightest and most secure locations.

Quote
Secondly, during the battle, what the hell happened with Health and Safety? There was a robot with a massive laser gun shooting around, and down below in close proximity are people in the stands cheering/watching. There were laser beams and rockets going all over the place, did they really think this through? I imagine that there may be some invisible shield that protects them, but it sure didn't look like it.

I thought about that as well.  If there was an invincible and infallible barrier protecting the spectators, wouldn't that negate whatever superiority the ISes have?  If you can just put shields around everything that ISes can't punch through, then what's the real danger of an IS?
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Offline hoarfrost

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Re: Infinite Stratos
« Reply #44 on: January 14, 2011, 03:53:14 PM »
Of course, the main character who has only ever piloted an IS once and didn't even read the manual is a natural and essentially beats a well trained pilot except for a technicality. This bothers me because no matter how you look at it, any explanation for his talent would have bad implications. Either it's In The Genes because he's Chifuyu's brother or plot power. An even worse potential message is that it doesn't matter that women are basically raised from birth to become good at a sport exclusive to them, some man will come along and be better anyway. Without any effort at all. Hard Work Hardly Works indeed.

Of course, you could see this coming from a mile away. Typically, the probability of any given match being one sided is inversely proportional to the arrogance of one of the competitors.
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