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Author Topic: Infinite Stratos  (Read 57742 times)

Offline Yggberry

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Re: Infinite Stratos
« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2011, 01:38:19 PM »
Wow am I the only who is enjoying this show? This is like Amagami SS all over again.

Hmmm. Maybe people are born to love harem because I personally love them. And I must say this show isn’t half bad. Ichika Orimura is cynical enough for me to fall in love with him. He feels a lot like Kyon from you know where. (Oh and I just watched Haruhi Suzumiya no Shoushitsu a week ago and am too lazy to start a thread. Best movie of 2010! The series has redeemed itself from endless eight.) Though I do have to agree with TIF on that some of the setups are retarded. I mean what is the point of creating super robots if you can’t use them for war? And even if you were to use them for recreation purposes, then what’s the point of attaching giant katana and … guns on them? Really, do we really need guns and blades for a game of IS volleyball? Apparently we do.

Next, I’m also kind of disappointed on the entire back-story of the protagonist. Ichika-kun was already famous before he was “discovered” that he could use an IS. He was basically living in the shadows of his famous sister. This was kind of a turn off for me. I guess they are trying to explain that he is “gifted” because he is related to the best IS pilot. So they are pointing it at the “genes”. Lame.

Finally, as for why he isn’t being put in a test tube and studied. Apparently his sister had some influence in that.



Offline Fumoffu!!

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Re: Infinite Stratos
« Reply #16 on: January 08, 2011, 02:05:10 PM »
Oh, that actually is a good explanation. Perhaps they'll explain that in the anime as well, in the next episode or something.

Wow am I the only who is enjoying this show? This is like Amagami SS all over again.

I quite enjoyed while I was watching, apart from the whole Cecilia Alcott scene (Grrr...), which caused me to realise about the setting, causing me to increase from minor to major rage. It's quite entertaining to watch, but it's also quite satisfying to rant about something once in a while.

Offline Yggberry

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Re: Infinite Stratos
« Reply #17 on: January 08, 2011, 02:13:27 PM »
Oh, that actually is a good explanation. Perhaps they'll explain that in the anime as well, in the next episode or something.

Wow am I the only who is enjoying this show? This is like Amagami SS all over again.

I quite enjoyed while I was watching, apart from the whole Cecilia Alcott scene (Grrr...), which caused me to realise about the setting, causing me to increase from minor to major rage. It's quite entertaining to watch, but it's also quite satisfying to rant about something once in a while.

What’s wrong with Cecilia Alcott? Doesn’t she follow the normal behavior of a snobby high-class English feline? Like . . .



Offline Shadowmage

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Re: Infinite Stratos
« Reply #18 on: January 08, 2011, 02:46:57 PM »
The protagonist is actually a transvestite.  There, mystery solved.

I recommend Mobile Suit, RX-0 and Unicorn from the Unicorn OST.

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Re: Infinite Stratos
« Reply #19 on: January 08, 2011, 07:12:29 PM »
Wow am I the only who is enjoying this show? This is like Amagami SS all over again.

Hmmm. Maybe people are born to love harem because I personally love them. And I must say this show isn’t half bad. Ichika Orimura is cynical enough for me to fall in love with him. He feels a lot like Kyon from you know where. (Oh and I just watched Haruhi Suzumiya no Shoushitsu a week ago and am too lazy to start a thread. Best movie of 2010! The series has redeemed itself from endless eight.) Though I do have to agree with TIF on that some of the setups are retarded. I mean what is the point of creating super robots if you can’t use them for war? And even if you were to use them for recreation purposes, then what’s the point of attaching giant katana and … guns on them? Really, do we really need guns and blades for a game of IS volleyball? Apparently we do.
Sounds like you have a penchant for retarded shows.

Offline TypicalIdiotFan

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Re: Infinite Stratos
« Reply #20 on: January 08, 2011, 11:57:54 PM »
Finally, as for why he isn’t being put in a test tube and studied. Apparently his sister had some influence in that.

Well now, that is interesting.  I'm glad that they addressed one of my concerns, even if it hasn't been done in the anime (yet).  However, I'm still not buying it.  I'm guessing by this point that his sister already knows that he can pilot the IS, though whether anybody else knows is still up in the air.  I'd have a hard time believing she could test / train him on the use of what apparently takes normal people 3 years to learn without someone noticing.  I mean, yeah perhaps she's Japan's number 1 IS "athlete" or whatever and a national hero, but if I were Japan, I still wouldn't listen to her.  I'd be taking that boy for study as soon as possible.  The very second that he applied to the academy, which serves only one purpose, alarm bells would be going off everywhere (and they apparently were).  I do not believe that something that monumental could have been kept secret enough for him to get to the academy unmolested.  Especially when his homeland would have had just as much an interest in him as anybody else.

But, whatever, I'll let that one go for now since they actually did provide an answer.

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What’s wrong with Cecilia Alcott? Doesn’t she follow the normal behavior of a snobby high-class English feline? Like . . .

There isn't really a good comparison here.  I actually liked the character of Selnia Iori Flameheart who is not unreasonably snobbish in her behavior.  She's actually quite noble in most of her behavior, and it is this pride gets in the way a lot.  In her world, there is a clear cut caste difference between the ladies and the butlers.  It doesn't help that her first undertaking with the protagonist is your "oh so hilarious!" misunderstandings involving gropings, nudity, and other assorted perversions that vex these types of shows.

Cecillia is unnecessarily snobbish from the beginning based on her status and gets irritated because he didn't know who she was and therefore didn't adhere to her lofty expectations of treatment.  In short, he was ignorant and couldn't possibly have known better, but she wasn't willing to accept that as an excuse and became antagonistic irrationally.  Couple that with an obvious superiority complex regarding how well he did with an IS compared to her (an "elite") and she's basically pulling an Asuka Langley Sohryu, but with 400 tons of PMS.

So, no they're not the same, really.  Also, Selnia Flameheart is never specifically mentioned to be from England, which is another point that is raising Fumoffu!'s hackles.
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Offline Elineas

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Re: Infinite Stratos
« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2011, 01:00:06 AM »
Nah, Fumoffu!, that was really just me taking the logical conclusion to the extreme. I do believe the unfortunate implications I brought up, but I'd consider them just that: unfortunate implications. The show doesn't actually think it's that sexist, but it is. As Shadowmage and Akira said, harem is just like that and taking it that far for any of them just puts it in shambles. That and I know the show would never have the guts to be a deconstruction and say that yes, it's the males exploiting the females; to the story, the IS is as good thing that rectifies all of man's previous dominance  :P.

Offline hoarfrost

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Re: Infinite Stratos
« Reply #22 on: January 09, 2011, 03:43:22 AM »
Next, drop the idea of an "exclusive teaching academy".  It's beyond insulting.  It's a cheap and easy way to create the school environment without being lame and actually having the setting BE a high school.  There wouldn't be only one academy.  Every ****ing country would have their own schools dedicated to training their own students.  What, Olympic athletes don't train for dozens of years in their own countries before heading out for the grand competitions?  And stop putting it in Japan, having everybody speak Japanese, and having the majority of the students be Japanese.  If you truly want to create this concept of an "international environment" ACT LIKE IT.

It's so predictable it's funny.

"People from all around the world, ie the one or two countries in Europe that first come to mind, come to study at IS Academy!"

I'm pretty thankful to writers that don't pretend that shit that has worldwide implications is limited to just Japan. I understand catering to your audience and being convenient and have no problem with that, it's totally reasonable for me to expect an overtly Japanese setting and/or cast. But if you're going to make the attempt to break out of that box, don't half-ass it. Even in a show like say, Darker Than Black, where the action is concentrated in Japan, there are interests from all over the world and it actually seems that way. Worse than pretending that no one else in the world has a stake in things is admitting that they do and yet still not reflecting that.

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What’s wrong with Cecilia Alcott? Doesn’t she follow the normal behavior of a snobby high-class English feline? Like . . .

My problem is the implication of it. It's fairly common whenever there is an English or other European noblewoman for her to be ethnic-nationalist and casually racist against Asians. I don't want to start any stuff because it may be a touchy subject, but think about England and then think about Japan and then ask yourself whether this is a fair characterization at all.

I won't even start on the misogynistic implications. Maybe it's just the accumulated irritation of all the other times I've seen this BS pulled, maybe it's the disappointment that there's another season of this crap, maybeI'm having things pointed out to me by posters here that I otherwise wouldn't have thought about, but everything about this show suddenly annoys me.

Offline Kylaran

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Re: Infinite Stratos
« Reply #23 on: January 09, 2011, 05:00:14 AM »
Ya'll need to chill and just watch as Protagonist hands English Bitch-chan her just deserts.

This is why I hate watching anime week-by-week. From a statistical perspective you can't make accurate statements about things, so all of you need to calm the **** down. If they're going to set up a rule of "only women can pilot IS" and then introduce a male lead, we can obviously expect part of the plot development to explore why he can.

Don't bitch about the breaking of rules if the breaking of the said rule is part of the narrative in the first place, at least until it's been given time to develop.

I do agree that the characters seem somewhat superficial (especially the way the interaction in the bedroom went), but I think this show is no where near as bad as you guys are all making it out to be. Also, I have yet to see how this show is sexist or unbelievable by any means -- none of us know anything about the politics, economics and technology of the series, yet you're all going off about how it's unrealistic. Anime, as a medium, is separated from reality and happens in a non-referential realm where the only laws that govern it are those that are established by the creators. Give the makers time to create a world.

Offline Fumoffu!!

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Re: Infinite Stratos
« Reply #24 on: January 09, 2011, 08:04:33 AM »
What’s wrong with Cecilia Alcott? Doesn’t she follow the normal behavior of a snobby high-class English feline?

Perhaps the stereotypical snobby High-class English Feline present in anime (in fact I'm not sure if there is one, this is the first I've come across, I'm assuming there are others), but the snobby high-class English feline you speak of doesn't really exist anymore.

Besides, if she was actually a high-class English feline snob, she wouldn't have bothered to have learnt Japanese fluently, she would have just spoken English louder and slower than usual, while making cryptic gestures in order to communicate. Also, British people, unlike the Americans, aren't particularly patriotic, in fact, self-deprecation is very common aspect of the population in general, we don't tend to brag about our country, instead we often insult it ourselves, it's just that when someone else insults it we get suddenly defensive.

One thing that was right was the casual racism, the higher class you go, the more people are casually racist. Apart from that though, Cecilia Alcott is an insulting interpretation of an English high class feline.

Nah, Fumoffu!, that was really just me taking the logical conclusion to the extreme. I do believe the unfortunate implications I brought up, but I'd consider them just that: unfortunate implications. The show doesn't actually think it's that sexist, but it is.

Fair enough, I suppose it would be unlikely of a show to be intentionally sexist unless it had some point to prove about it. I think I was over thinking things a little, considering the unintelligent nature of this show.

Offline TypicalIdiotFan

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Re: Infinite Stratos
« Reply #25 on: January 09, 2011, 01:20:55 PM »
Don't bitch about the breaking of rules if the breaking of the said rule is part of the narrative in the first place, at least until it's been given time to develop.

I'm not bitching about the "breaking of the rule".  I'm bitching that the person in question is an anomaly that would require study.  Also, in the absence of explanation, the only thing we have to go off is an assumption that they're following what would be recognizable political and societal structure.

Example:  Women are still women.  Even if the importance of women around the world for their ability to pilot the IS has increased, I cannot begin to imagine that it has increased that much due to the fact that no military is allowed to use the vehicle.  All the girls depicted in the first episode continue to act like... well let's face it, tropes and archetypes.  From this we can infer that the role of women in society has not changed that drastically.

Thus, a man who can pilot the IS would completely disrupt the balance of the importance of women.  Kindly note that none of the women pilots seem threatened by this.  On the contrary, they view him as a mystery.

What we can infer from this is that the importance of women in politics hasn't changed at all.  The only telling contradicting comment is Ceceilia mentioning that men would lose a war against women in three days.  I find it interesting that she would say that, and it is so universally understood that even Ichika backs down a bit.  I'm guessing that these ISes WERE used at one point for combat and the results were disastrous (for conventional warfare, I mean).  However, since they CAN'T use them for military purposes now, what power do they really have?

Furthermore, a sudden societal role reversal with women having more military power would exasperate the issue that Ichika would be a lab rat.  If men could balance that power out, they would.  I refuse to believe that this society has changed so drastically that the men have no ambition whatsoever to retake their place in society.  And maybe that'll be a plot point later, but for right now, I'm having a hard time believing that there isn't a great motivation to make an attempt to snag him right NOW.

As for the rest, in the absence of required narrative, I am going to fill in the blanks with data about the real world.  I assume this is still Earth, and I assume these are still humans and not some parallel world were the entirety of human nature and societal structure was different to begin with.  Therefore, I will assume that certain politics, economics, and technologies from reality still apply.
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Offline bluecheez

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Re: Infinite Stratos
« Reply #26 on: January 09, 2011, 06:05:21 PM »
**** this shit.

I agree with everything on this website with the exception that there are pretty fight scenes.

Personally, 3D-animation pasted into anime always looks terrible. I really have no idea why they still do it.


While Strike Witches was fun for its stupidity in pushing the ridiculous-line as far as it can go, I really hope "Strike Witches" doesn't become a genre.

Offline Kylaran

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Re: Infinite Stratos
« Reply #27 on: January 09, 2011, 08:13:42 PM »
I'm not bitching about the "breaking of the rule".  I'm bitching that the person in question is an anomaly that would require study.  Also, in the absence of explanation, the only thing we have to go off is an assumption that they're following what would be recognizable political and societal structure.

In absence of explanation, you do not insert in your own "Oh I think this is what it's going to be about" and pretend that your own assumptions are on equal ground with the actual production. It's like a religious fanatic seeing an isolated phenomenon and immediately associating it with the work of the Heavens, without waiting to take the time to think of -multiple- possibilities that the show could be about. There is no need for any such assumption. Also, this "anomaly" can't be studied when you only have one episode to base it off of.

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Example:  Women are still women.  Even if the importance of women around the world for their ability to pilot the IS has increased, I cannot begin to imagine that it has increased that much due to the fact that no military is allowed to use the vehicle.  All the girls depicted in the first episode continue to act like... well let's face it, tropes and archetypes.  From this we can infer that the role of women in society has not changed that drastically.

This assumes that tropes and archetypes cannot be empowering in a real world setting. Indeed, in anime many of these tropes are used for the pleasure of an arguably largely male audience, but we have no idea whether or not these archetypes could actually be empowering were a woman in the real world to share many of its traits. We don't know this because anime operates in the world of its creators; it has no direct relation to reality. Hell, we don't know what the makers are even trying to say about gender--what if it's just a plot device they came up with but essentially the show isn't about gender roles in society?

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Thus, a man who can pilot the IS would completely disrupt the balance of the importance of women.  Kindly note that none of the women pilots seem threatened by this.  On the contrary, they view him as a mystery.

First of all, why does this have to be about a threat to the position of women in the first place? And why is there a necessity that they should feel angry? What if these girls (who seem to be at high school age) are more interested in a man because of his dating potential than whether or not the said male will completely destroy the current structure of society. This is entirely plausible, because from the classroom scene we see that quite a few girls feel that women are more powerful in the world of IS. And it's not misplaced because they ARE in the world of IS: at an academy designed to train people for its use. But this doesn't exactly say anything about the position of women in the political or economic realms.

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What we can infer from this is that the importance of women in politics hasn't changed at all.  The only telling contradicting comment is Ceceilia mentioning that men would lose a war against women in three days.  I find it interesting that she would say that, and it is so universally understood that even Ichika backs down a bit.  I'm guessing that these ISes WERE used at one point for combat and the results were disastrous (for conventional warfare, I mean).  However, since they CAN'T use them for military purposes now, what power do they really have?

Or, perhaps in a society dominated by men, the governments banned together and prevented the use of IS in combat before it could even happen. Yes, I see your point that there are hints that the position of women hasn't changed. But it has nothing to do with how the girls at the academy are treating Ichika. My assumption is that, because it is assumed in the world of IS that men are inferior, it doesn't have to be stated that they most likely underestimate and look down on Ichika's skills.

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Furthermore, a sudden societal role reversal with women having more military power would exasperate the issue that Ichika would be a lab rat.  If men could balance that power out, they would.  I refuse to believe that this society has changed so drastically that the men have no ambition whatsoever to retake their place in society.  And maybe that'll be a plot point later, but for right now, I'm having a hard time believing that there isn't a great motivation to make an attempt to snag him right NOW.

Yes, so let's extrapolate from a few scenes in an isolated academy and make assumptions about the rest of the anime's universe. I don't think you're wrong, but only in the case that it actually applied to the show, will it be relevant to the discussion at hand. I'm merely pointing out that what seems like an inconsistency may very well be qualified and fully believable if we attach the statement "in the world of IS" to the behavior of these characters.

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As for the rest, in the absence of required narrative, I am going to fill in the blanks with data about the real world.  I assume this is still Earth, and I assume these are still humans and not some parallel world were the entirety of human nature and societal structure was different to begin with.  Therefore, I will assume that certain politics, economics, and technologies from reality still apply.

So in the absence of data, you will assume that violent movies and video games cause people to kill each other, rape hentai to cause men to rape women, and that watching Hello Kitty the anime makes me gay. Well, maybe they do. Or maybe they don't. My only point here is that without knowing the entire story, we cannot make any claims about whether the anime even begins to address the role of women in society. Yes, it sure hints that it might take this direction, but as far as I know, it may simply be trying to rework the high school romance setting.

I will not be disappointed with this anime in any way if it doesn't address the gender and society. Why? Because the anime may want to make claims about other things. However, if in the end they attempt to make a statement about this particular theme, and fail miserably at it, I will definitely look back at this episode and say "Yeah, there were inconsistencies."

Until then, I will assume nothing about what the creators are attempting to take the show, unless I can make a much more empirically backed conjecture towards the end. As an anime reviewer and critic, we have to separate what we want and feel from an anime and look at it from an objective point of view. Even if a show were to violate every expectation that we had, we have to look at it from a perspective of not what it could be, but what it is.

Offline Jack Rav

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Re: Infinite Stratos
« Reply #28 on: January 09, 2011, 08:22:04 PM »
Man, it almost feels that this is getting more discussion than it deserves. :D

Offline hoarfrost

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Re: Infinite Stratos
« Reply #29 on: January 09, 2011, 10:28:33 PM »
What’s wrong with Cecilia Alcott? Doesn’t she follow the normal behavior of a snobby high-class English feline?

Perhaps the stereotypical snobby High-class English Feline present in anime (in fact I'm not sure if there is one, this is the first I've come across, I'm assuming there are others), but the snobby high-class English feline you speak of doesn't really exist anymore.

Besides, if she was actually a high-class English feline snob, she wouldn't have bothered to have learnt Japanese fluently, she would have just spoken English louder and slower than usual, while making cryptic gestures in order to communicate. Also, British people, unlike the Americans, aren't particularly patriotic, in fact, self-deprecation is very common aspect of the population in general, we don't tend to brag about our country, instead we often insult it ourselves, it's just that when someone else insults it we get suddenly defensive.

One thing that was right was the casual racism, the higher class you go, the more people are casually racist. Apart from that though, Cecilia Alcott is an insulting interpretation of an English high class feline.

Even so, I doubt even the worst of them would have the gall to say this:





In a class full of Japanese kids. It's so absurd that I just can't get over it. I honestly don't see the point of that if not either some slight at the (incorrectly) perceived nationalism of British people or some dog whistle to the audience. If British people were so full of pride in the world of IS, then as TIF said, why don't they have their own academies instead of learning Japanese and going to Japan to learn?
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