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Author Topic: Star Wars: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread (Beware spoilers)  (Read 2684 times)

Offline SQA

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread (Beware spoilers)
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2016, 11:13:16 PM »
On Kavik Ryx's point #4, it's not that Rey would have gone over better as a Man than a Woman.  That actually misses the issue.  Minus the breasts, in what way is Rey noticeably female?  This is the actual problem with modern approaches to having a female Action Lead.  (I rather hilariously was prescient in the problems Avatar: The Legend of Korra would end up having for the exact same reason.)  The monomyth/Hero's Journey story cycle is functionally masculine in its approach.   This is why you end up functionally gender-swapped Men as female Action Leads in nearly all cases.  (Anime's way of getting around a bit of this problem is to insert a weaker male MC and make the female Action Lead go dere for him.   Or make the entire dang cast female.)  This is also why the lead generally end up a little too good at everything.  The hell any Hollywood Leftist would reap if they attempted to humanize a female Lead in this type of movie would be hard to imagine.  (You can see what happened with Joss Whedon & Black Widow.  Though that was just clunky.)  Though I wouldn't say Rey is necessarily a straight Mary Sue.  Especially if what they're setting up with the title "The Force Awakens" ends up panning out.

The major problem they created for themselves is that the Force suddenly got a little too easy to learn.  Unless Rey is more naturally gifted than Anakin, Jedi were supposed to be Shaolin Monk-like in the amount of training they needed to use the Force well.  But if Rey ends up being the "sign" that it changing and the Star Wars universe is moving from a Low Magic to High Magic world, they'll be able to get around that problem.  Plus I'd love to see the younglings tossing Force Lightning at each other.  That's be hilarious.

TIF, so what you're saying is that the main antagonist of the film is a weak & pathetic poseur.  Which I would tend to agree with that assessment, though it brings up the point that the main antagonist really wasn't much of one.  (Though the Emo Kylo Ren twitter feed is hilarious.)

Offline TypicalIdiotFan

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread (Beware spoilers)
« Reply #16 on: January 11, 2016, 12:02:12 AM »
Yeah, that's what I am saying, and I am also saying it is intentional because they're creating a situation where you have TWO main characters, along different paths, going through "the hero's journey" so to speak.  Lord Serkis at the end there says it is time for Kylo Ren to complete his training, a big fat indicator that he wasn't trained as much as he audience is supposed to believe in the first place.  Meanwhile, Rey is going to give Luke piggybacks while lifting rocks and complaining about ships sinking in swamp.

Ben Solo wasn't supposed to be the main villain.  Lord Snooki is.  Hell, I'd even go so far as to say that there's a potential romantic subplot already brewing between Rey and Kylo Ren.  It was just he way she was looking at him when he removed the mask.  I mean, he IS Han's son.  That whole "scoundrel" appeal, y'know?

Abrams isn't doing the next two movies, but he has publicly stated that after reading the script for the second film, he wishes he was.  I don't know if that means squat, but it is interesting that we're getting numerous voices adding their own touches to the Star Wars universe as opposed to one despotic vision from a man who badly needed a director to set him straight.

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Offline Reckoner

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread (Beware spoilers)
« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2016, 12:27:39 AM »
A lot of things I wanted to say SQA already said for me, but anyhow...

One can logically wave the fight as a wash given his incomplete training and bleeding out from his side because of a blaster. I just don't like my main villains/antagonists looking that pathetic in the first movie. I also don't like my main characters achieving so much so fast because it limits intrigue. My issues are really just that simple. Others can feel differently of course.

Though the larger issue with the movie to me is just the rehashing. When we got an even bigger death star yet again I was just like 'c'mon!'
« Last Edit: January 11, 2016, 12:35:20 AM by Reckoner »

Offline SQA

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread (Beware spoilers)
« Reply #18 on: January 11, 2016, 09:59:00 AM »
On the "even bigger Death Star", I think this is the most appropriate response: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNaXdLWt17A

Offline thanosmat

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread (Beware spoilers)
« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2016, 10:57:13 AM »
For me, Buffy is a perfect example of a female lead who is not a Mary Sue. She is flawed from the start, and even "die" in their first major battle in the first season. She is not simply the gender-swapped version of a classical male hero like Rey is.

I have the feeling that in the second movie Rey will have a "Gohan Syndrome". When training with Luke, she will not be as powerful as before (Like Piccolo training Gohan). At least I hope.

Offline Kavik Ryx

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread (Beware spoilers)
« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2016, 11:52:15 AM »
Rey's powers will likely be nerfed just by matter of circumstance (i.e. not be fighting for her life and in shock over Han's death) and the way the Force works. The Force controls action as much as it obeys command, so when she tapped in, it is likely that the Force was in the driver's seat, being influenced by her emotions. It would be something similar to in Return of the Jedi when Luke briefly gave into the Dark Side allowing him to defeat Vader. That, or Rey's powers are her's to command and by comparison Luke will be some combination Jedi Master, Newtype, and Kwizatz Haderach.

Offline SQA

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread (Beware spoilers)
« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2016, 02:46:49 PM »
Well, the A New Hope is probably the best version of Dune that we've gotten, so it wouldn't surprise me if Luke is far down the Golden Path.
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