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Everything Else => Games => Topic started by: Sorrow-kun on November 04, 2007, 09:41:47 PM

Title: Ever 17
Post by: Sorrow-kun on November 04, 2007, 09:41:47 PM
Abandoning the generic VN thread (it's turned into spam and hasn't had a post in months anyway).

So, I've just started playing Ever 17.  About a few hours in, and it's pretty good so far.  The characters are a bit generic so far, but there's enough mystery and action to keep things interesting.  It's pretty impressive, technically as well.  The art is decent, the voice acting is really good, and the OP sequence is awesome (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RP--7bUBHMk).

So, anyone else played this, and what are people's thoughts?  Spoiler tags please, I'm still only in the early stages of the game.
Title: Re: Ever 17
Post by: Tamashii on November 28, 2007, 11:26:49 PM
What is VN?

I have built a general distaste for these CG/visual games. I think watching a film, reading a book, or even watching anime is time-better-spent. The interaction available to the end user in these types of games is laughable. I mean, a game is meant to be interactive! This is a storybook gone digital! I have no qualms with the content, or possibilities for content, but I do very much dislike the form. Additionally, the content is probably nothing short of unoriginal (pardon the arrogance and ignorance). One can find similar tales, maybe even better tales, in other mediums. So what's CG games got to offer?
Title: Re: Ever 17
Post by: DarkKanti on November 29, 2007, 12:27:22 PM
I think it stands for Visual Novel.  

I don't think the genre's a huge waste though.  I have never played Ever 17, or many other VN games, but I did enjoy the Phoenix Wright series (which I think qualifies as a visual novel).

But, I digress,  this thread isn't for the discussion of other VN games, its about Ever 17.  I'll try checking it out later if I can.
Title: Re: Ever 17
Post by: Shadowmage on November 29, 2007, 01:26:07 PM
@Tama

There are many advantages of VNs that will take five pages to go over, but the one that makes VNs worthwhile to me is its ability to tell a story with you as a player in it.  I mean, how many mediums can actually tell a story in the second person?  Okay, this association is very superficial, but the medium manages to keep a veneer of intimacy that other mediums simply cannot emulate.

Also, from a practical standpoint, Visual Novels are pretty cheap to produce compared to anime and films.  It may be not as cheap as writing a book, but it allows a small hanful of people to convey their vision not only in words, but it pictures too.
Title: Re: Ever 17
Post by: royal crown on November 29, 2007, 06:19:00 PM
Yeah, if nothing else, Visual Novels allow voice acting (usually, and especially with modern ones) to be a factor as well. A book is fine too, but having the voice there present is able to convey an aesthetic that books (at least in general) don't reproduce. To me, Visual Novels have their place insofar as media goes. They're able to have the visual and aural qualities of movies/anime/etc, but using text also allows introspection and thoughts of the narrator to be portrayed in a manner that's extremely hard to replicate conventionally in anime - most of the time there needs to be some action to keep the attention of a viewer. This could very well simply be a matter of expectations, in the sense that people (at least from my experience) tend to view VN's with a different mindset than anime, but nevertheless visual novels achieve that effect.
Title: Re: Ever 17
Post by: Akira on November 29, 2007, 07:41:20 PM
There's no reason to ever think of a visual novel or an eroge as a video game, per se, but really, rather, like Tama said, a story book. Most stories aren't very original, but gems like Narcissu pop up once in a while, no? Besides, since most VNs are pornographic anyway, the ones that aren't usually have amazingly good stories.

I'm guessing this is the case with Ever 17. I've never played a Hirameki game, so I can't really speak about it that much, but... when Sorrow's done with it, I'd like his take.
Title: Re: Ever 17
Post by: Tamashii on November 29, 2007, 09:52:47 PM
Even though this is a digression from the topic, it is a pretty good digression. I mean, what would you prefer reading? "Yeah I haven't played that game yet...But I plan to soon!" or something like what's happening now? Besides, there is limited discussion on this board and anything that can spark it is welcomed.

My qualm is with the use of these CG games for the audience. I don't care what it brings to the author. A lot of artists do their thing, whether it be writing or designing a CG game, for themselves in mind. So CG games being accessible to artists is irrelevant.

Apparently you guys need to play more video games. If you want "second person" storytelling, a lot of first person shooters have engaging stories to them. One could call the Neverwinter Nights and Morrowind series "second person" storytelling games, too. Anyways, a story that needs to rely on the format as a crutch for delivering an "intimate" or convincing story is a bad ****ing story. I am absolutely positively sure that when I watch something like Ning Ying's I Love Beijing I feel much more intimacy than I did when I played some of these CG games.

It's not that "introspection" is hard to convey in other mediums like film/anime, it's just that some of these artists suck balls. And I agree, visual novels do have their place in the media: as bastardized junk. They are a hybrid between a book and a movie and a game. None of which they are particularly good at being. I'd rather read a full book then read a chapter from three different books--get my drift? I think the excuse of visual impact is an excuse for a lack of an imagination. Let us not conform to stupidity and the generation's addiction to visual culture. Let us think for ourselves.

And when something is interactive and is called a game, it is a game. Sure, it may also be a "visual novel," but ****, it is an erogame too!
Title: Re: Ever 17
Post by: royal crown on November 29, 2007, 11:09:56 PM
I dunno if I agree necessarily with your stance, but I guess tastes simply vary. That being said, I'm still gonna respond because I'm a debater =/.

First onto your point about games. The key distinguishing factor between games and VN's is that with a VN you're a second person narrator. You, as an audience member, do not actively participate in the visual novels such that you do in video games. You simply observe, much like watching a TV show, simply from a different perspective. In a video game, you play an active role, and in visual novels you play an inactive role. Ultimately the limited amount of interaction you do is simply to get to the alternate endings. I'll get to that later. And yeah, the last thing I need is to play video games. Seriously, as I grow older I really dislike video games more; I don't think I play them any more. I just don't find any appeal whatsoever (this is total digression btw). Interestingly enough, however, I find myself watching/playing/whatever visual novels more (see, I brought it back on track).

So, as far as alternate ending goes, I think that's another advantage that other media don't - the ability to have alternate endings. Though it may be trivial, I like the idea of re-watching a given VN to see how one choice will impact the overall events. Mind you, this has been done in games, but I'm not going to compare VN's to games because that's a ridiculous comparison - the media are so different from each other. Just because something's interactive doesn't necessarily mandate it as a game.

Sure, VN's are hybridizations, but that doesn't necessarily make them bastardizations at all. This is where I totally lose your argument:

"I'd rather read a full book then read a chapter from three different books--get my drift?"

I have no idea what that means. It went totally over my head.

As for visual impact being an excuse for a lack of imagination, what's anime then? Should we abandon cinema? After all, a book can very easily be written out of a screenplay. Visual impact adds immensely to the enjoyability of any given media, depending on how it's implemented. Sure you may not feel intimacy, but I sure do, and plenty more people do find intimacy with it.

Also, at the end of the day, and at least to my experience, I've yet to see an anime that's done introspection as well as a comparable visual novel or book. The mere fact that action comprises film/anime/etc is enough to distinguish them as being much less conducive to an introspective type of narration.
Title: Re: Ever 17
Post by: Tamashii on November 30, 2007, 01:27:26 AM
First off, you need to read what I say more carefully. Working from reverse order, as I always do:

- Well since you've said "book" you've proved my point. But then, even Evangelion does a good job with this introspection business. And your argument about action and stuff is just silly.
- I am not decrying the visual--hell no, I would never do that. I decry the excuse: "Well you know, it's got more visual impact! Thus, it is better!" Like that's something special?
- It means I'd rather have something complete, like a full book or a full video game, then something half-assed, like a Visual Novel. And yes, hybrids like Visual Novels are bastardized versions of their better counterparts because when they attempt to be like a book, they make books look bad. And when they attempt to be like a video game, they make video games look bad.
- Alternate endings are in DVD extras, too. And what do you mean you're not going to compare them because they are different? I mean, Visual Novels are derived from video games: the first interactive media was a video game called Pong. And it is called a game. Stop denying this, people! I was implying that if something is called a game, then it is...look it up Ever17 on Wiki. "Gameplay"..."Playstation 2 release"...Now look up "visual novel" and you see the words "Interactive"..."Game"...it falls within the definition of a game.
Title: Re: Ever 17
Post by: royal crown on November 30, 2007, 03:20:54 PM
Sure Evangelion did a good job with introspection, but at least from where I'm standing the manga did it much, much better. There are much more complex venues that can be accomplished from a syntactical point of view through text as opposed to cinema. If someone writes a very complex sentence, it's hard to convey that meaning perfectly as it blurs past you, whereas with text one can read that sentence, ponder about it, and then move on. The time constraints of cinema (if you haven't noticed by now I'm just using that as a generic to avoic confusion on my part) ultimately make it a different beast altogether from other forms of comparable media.

As for the idea behind books, why not just toss manga while you're at it? At the end of the day, manga is very similar in format to a VN, insofar as it's an illustrated book. A graphic novel. Voice acting is a modern innovation to this, but I don't see how this would do anything but enhance the experience, and if it annoys you unplug your speakers and you'll still be able to enjoy it.

Also, the chapter point is still confusing me - it's not as if visual novels are incomplete or fragmented in any way, they're just relaying a story, in its entirety, in a different way. Also, you're providing very weak warrants as to why your claim that VN's are a "bastardization" is valid. Just saying that they make books look bad isn't doing anything but making more unwarranted assertions. By that same token, would you put manga, picture books, etc. all in the umbrella category of bastardization? Because when taken to its logical extent that's what your claim boils down to.

As for alternate endings, I've never seen them done very well and they still don't let you make a choice at any given crossroad of the game and let you see why that specific choice changed the outcome of the situation. With an alternate ending, not only is there no autonomy, but it's only an ending. With visual novels, you not only get to see a given decision unfold through various points of the VN, but you also get to see the impacts of that specific choice, as opposed to just a retelling of events in a different manner. Sorry if this is unclear, as it's hard to express what I'm thinking right now - I'll try to rephrase it if need be.

Then, as for the idea of visual novels being a game, you're being way too semantical here. I mean sure, it may fall into the very broad and overarching category of what constitutes a video game, but ultimately you're claiming that you can compare apples and oranges because they're both fruits. A unicycle can technically be compared to a car as a vehicle (or bicycle, or any actual serious form of transportation for that matter), but what are you proving? They're obviously built for different reasons, and just because a unicycle can't get you from point A to point B as fast as a bicycle doesn't mean it's somehow inferior, because unicycles were made to goof around on (yes yes, I know some crazy people race with unicycles etc. but bear with me here). It's solely and utterly a matter of semantics, and it's pretty obvious VNs and games serve completely different purposes.

I think the biggest source of confusion here is that you want to try to compare directly visual novels to games, or books, or movies, or whatever. You can try to, but ultimately it comes back to comparing apples and oranges. Visual novels aren't trying to be books, they're not trying to be cinema, they're not trying to be anything besides visual novels. And at least in my opinion, the experience they provide is satisfactory enough not when compared to anything else, but simply due to the amount of enjoyment generated. It might be that if you approach one with a clear mind, without external expectations, and without mentally comparing them to other things, you could also enjoy them simply for what they are.

edit: Wow, that's abysmally long. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to write so much.
Title: Re: Ever 17
Post by: Tamashii on November 30, 2007, 05:15:18 PM
In correct order this time. And don't fret the long post. I read everything.

- I'm still not convinced that visual mediums are more "conducive to introspection." I would say that no medium is any more conducive to introspection than the other. It just happens that film has a tendency to "invoke more introspection" than visual novels/CG games.

- I don't know where you get the idea that I hate voice acting or something from...
- Clearly this is a case of misreading. Or lack of reading. Manga and comic books are not "bastardized" because they excel at what they do: tell a story with pictures and text. Manga deliver a unique experience that cannot be found in film, video games, or books. However, CG games are only emulating these other mediums, doing something that can be done much better in a video game or in a film. The big thing that applies to its bastardization is its limited interaction.

- Actually the game "The Witcher" does a good job of doing exactly the opposite of what you're saying video games can't do. Though I've yet to finish it, and thus I would not know the alternate ending deal, the same idea of alternates can be applied to the many quests, which have different results depending on how you approach it (killing or remaining peaceful, taking sides or remaining neutral, etc.). In essence, my in-game experience is entirely different from some other individuals'. I'm sure the Witcher is not the only game that is like this.

- How about this: is it correct to say that an apple is a fruit yet an orange is not a fruit because they are entirely different yet they actually are fruits? So a visual novel is not a game while a video game is a game yet they are both defined as games? And do you know why they are defined as games, as fruits are defined as fruits? Games are interactive. The purpose of making a visual novel as opposed to a manga is that it can be interactive. A fruit is defined as such (in this context of food) because it grows on a tree or a bush as opposed to growing directly from the soil. Yes, it is semantics. But how can you deny semantics when language is the basis of what you understand, reason, and perceive? Why is it so important to us that when we feel something, or know something we can't express, that we have to say to others or to ourselves, "I do not know how to express it/find the words for it." It is an argument of semantics. Yes, I realized that the moment I wrote it. But I continued. By semantics, it is how we organize and understand, it is a foundation that without it, we will not be able to express it. It's suave to use "it's a matter of semantics!" as a crutch and an excuse...but not when the person you are arguing with sees right through that cliched garbage.

- I don't care if they try to or do not try to. And I don't care much for cliched analogies, either. However, I do care that there is an alternate medium, something better, and it is worth arguing my opinion to eradicate the ignorance of others (but with no real intention of changing their opinions, only to justify my own). I think what you should get out of this is not what I should be thinking and how it is wrong to think how I think, but what you can understand from how I argue and why I argue it--and the challenge of grasping the idea that other people do hold different opinions and they may be very passionate about it.

I know some of the things I say here seem like an ad hominem, but truly, sometimes things just must be put directly. I don't like beating around the bush, as the cliche goes (and it is the best and most justified cliche), and when I am explicit about people reading other people's opinions carefully, I honestly mean it. If you want others to spend ample time reading your thoughts, then you should spend ample time reading theirs (this whole thing took over an hour).
Title: Re: Ever 17
Post by: royal crown on November 30, 2007, 09:25:48 PM
- the idea about conduciveness is simply that I think that VN's are better equipped for introspection - sure you can do it in cinema, but VNs do it better - at least from my experience with VNs. Probably limited experience compared to Akira or something, but I've seen a good chunk of them.

- the voice acting thing was just preemptively addressing a difference so if there was a problem with voice acting, it's already taken care of (or at least responded to so as to save time). It also was just covering bases insofar as the differences between x and y.

- Insofar as the word "bastardization" is a corruption (by its definition), then manga are corruptions of books because they relay a story that could just as easily be written in book form. What I'm saying is that just because something is a corruption doesn't make it necessarily inferior, and if it does (by some alternate conception of bastardization), then VN's aren't corruptions. What I'm saying is that VN's excel in providing intimacy on a level that cannot be achieved with conventional cinema, due to the combination of text and visual representations on the screen.

- The idea of limited interaction puzzles me. Why is limited interaction a bad thing? Wherein "The Witcher," you're taking control of a character, and actually changing things in game, in visual novels you're simply a silent participator, present but never actually changing things. Ultimately, the whole interaction in VNs to begin with is an easter egg of sorts to unlock new endings. At the end of the day, interaction is limited, but in what way specifically does that detract from the overall experience of the VN to begin with?

- with the apples/oranges thing, I'm not contending that VN's aren't games, I'm simply saying that even if they are technically games, they serve a different purposes than most games and thus shouldn't be compared to most games. That's why I brought up the unicycle example - though it is technically a vehicle, it was conceived for goofing around on and not for serious transportation. I'm not sure why you disregarded this analogy because it falls perfectly in line with VN's. VN's are technically games, but their foremost intent is not to provide interaction, whereas in conventional games (should I maybe have used the word conventional?) the foremost factor is interactivity. Going back to the apples/oranges example, sure oranges are fruits too, but you can't put them into a pie and expect them to fair comparably to apples. They both have different purposes even if they fall into the umbrella term of fruits, and different fruits act differently - but that's not to say that oranges are somehow bastardizations of fruits just because they don't taste as good as most other fruits in pies.

- The idea behind semantics was not that semantical discussion is useless or doesn't serve a purpose, I'm just saying that semantics is for identifying. I guess I didn't make myself clearer earlier, or mistakenly said something in my haste, but I never disagreed with identifying VN's as a game, only that it would be unfair to compare them to conventional games in one particular aspect (interactivity). The semantical debate simply isn't generating ground, to use some stupid debate jargon e_e only because I can't think of another word to use here.

- I understand and respect your opinion. I'm just suggesting that possibly your opinion may change when your expectations of the genre change. For instance, if someone walks into a movie after being dragged to the theater by his friends, when he just broke up with his girlfriend, his dog died, whatever... he's not going to enjoy the movie obviously even if the movie is still a good one simply because he was predisposed with a mentality not to like it. I'm not saying that you have that mentality absolutely, or that watching a VN will change your mind at all, or even change your predisposition, I just think that the fact that there's a chance that you may derive some benefit from watching it without a preconceived notion is sufficient for me to make that suggestion.

- I'm not sure that I follow you here. I did read everything you wrote, some parts multiple times, until I comprehended it to the best of my knowledge. If you don't think I'm following something or missed something, tell me where I missed it, don't just assume that I didn't read it, because chances are I just misinterpreted it. If you're explicit about what I need to focus on or what I missed, only then can I actually understand what I missed and why that's important, and it's more productive than simply assuming that I'm not taking your opinion seriously, or didn't take the necessary time or whatever it may be.
Title: Re: Ever 17
Post by: Tamashii on December 01, 2007, 02:26:10 AM
As you can see, the posts are getting exponentially longer, haha. So I am obligated to stop because we've discussed the topic to enough length to understand that each of us is going to debate something one way simply by comprehending it differently. This is clear through our contrasting notions of interaction, semantics, opinion, and bastardization.

When I say read, I imply to full comprehend, which can come if you take each word in. I try not to write abstractly, and I find myself rather easy to understand, just that my logic may seem strange at the first read but makes sense after a few. I say it because if you read through our previous posts, it's clear you've misread a lot of things in that your replies are inappropriate. It is arrogant on my part to just say "you should read better" when I should be pointing out what you're misinterpreting, but understand that I only refer to the easier way out because I do honestly think what I write is easy to follow (especially in the earlier stages of this argument, where things are rather simple).

I have indeed played a number "VN"'s as you insistently want to refer to them as. Some of them were erogames, others were clean. I was only truly enchanted by one, and it was called Kana Little Sister. But upon reflection, I know that the foundational idea behind that story had been done much better in other mediums (though in ignorance I have yet to pursue them...because it is very awkward to actively look for film/books on incest). But to ground this in a more concrete example, there was a clean VN about loneliness that I played. Loneliness is dealt with a billion times across the media, and I've yet to see it dealt with any better than The Catcher in the Rye (book) or Scorsese's Taxi Driver (film).
Title: Re: Ever 17
Post by: royal crown on December 02, 2007, 12:11:37 PM
Just as a sidenote I call them VNs out of laziness. It's ther shortest acronym, and given my usage of the word I just did it to save time/effort.
Title: Re: Ever 17
Post by: Akira on December 02, 2007, 12:30:21 PM
Alright, seriously, this thread has been so insanely threadjacked it's not even funny. Let's just let Sorrow post his opinion of Ever 17 whenever he finishes it.

As a sidenote, I ripped the entire Narcissu OST. If you want it, PM me.

As a second sidenote, my friend's almost done with Narci 2. He hopes to release before Christmas. Yaaay.

Back to Ever 17. =_=;
Title: Re: Ever 17
Post by: Tamashii on December 02, 2007, 04:22:19 PM
Akira is guilty of crimes that he condemn! He almost tried to threadjack, too!
Title: Re: Ever 17
Post by: Sorrow-kun on December 07, 2007, 05:39:08 PM
Holy crap, I turn around for one minute....

I played through the game for what felt like ten hours, only to get the BAD END, so I'm rather unmotivated about it now.  I've heard that some of the ends are BAAAWW-worthy, which is why I eventually want to play through them, but I tend to find myself doing other things when I have nothing else to do right now.
Title: Re: Ever 17
Post by: Sorrow-kun on February 17, 2008, 03:52:13 PM
Months and months after I started playing... bump.

I finally finished it.  The first four paths are ok, nothing brilliant, not really all that satisfying.  The final, true ending, however, is a masterpiece.  I think I need a bit more time to reflect on it before I can find the words to describe it.  But it just completely bowled me over.

Highly, highly recommended to all.  If you read it, wade through the first four arcs, even if you don't find them all that great, since the final path is worth it and then some.
Title: Re: Ever 17
Post by: Akira on February 18, 2008, 12:45:15 AM
Too bad Hirameki is now out of business...

*me cries.*
Title: Re: Ever 17
Post by: ImperialX on October 02, 2010, 03:03:15 PM
The final arc actually impressed me dearly. I've never seen complexity of this level in any medium aside from Hamlet. This game is a masterpiece.
Title: Re: Ever 17
Post by: Sorrow-kun on October 02, 2010, 03:06:12 PM
The final arc actually impressed me dearly. I've never seen complexity of this level in any medium aside from Hamlet. This game is a masterpiece.
I'm not quite prepared to call it a masterpiece, since I did have a few problems with the first four arcs.  But it is absolutely outstanding, and the best VN I've ever read.  My review here (http://behind-the.nihonreview.com/20090706/visual-novel-review-ever-17-the-out-of-infinity/).
Title: Re: Ever 17
Post by: ImperialX on October 02, 2010, 03:17:26 PM
I'm not quite prepared to call it a masterpiece, since I did have a few problems with the first four arcs.  But it is absolutely outstanding, and the best VN I've ever read.  My review here (http://behind-the.nihonreview.com/20090706/visual-novel-review-ever-17-the-out-of-infinity/).

I share the somewhat the same sentiments as you for the first four arcs upon my first playthrough, but by the time I got to Kid's arcs after playing both of Takeshi's arcs, I had already started noticing discrepancies that started jumping out at me.
I won't go as far to say that I became aware of Blickwinkel's existence before it was revealed, but I pretty much figured out the fact that these arcs took place at different times and the existence of a 4th dimensional entity.

However, I'm willing to call the game as a whole a masterpiece because, upon my second playthrough of the game, I found that the first four arcs actually don't "keep their cards close" as much as you say. I don't just mean the philosophical talks. After my second playthrough, I think I can say that it has enough clues in there to completely figure the whole thing out before playing Coco's arc.
Title: Re: Ever 17
Post by: MCAL on May 24, 2013, 12:12:34 AM
Just finished my second playthrough of this gem of a game, so I figured I'd give out some thoughts on the matter and see if anyone remembers this thread exists. A few things jump out to me...

One: The hints in the Kidís stories were so strong, I feel like an idiot for not realizing the major plot twist and thinking it was something else.
Two: Even though I should, I rarely ever got bored playing any of the routes (Sora was the weakest though).
Three: Some reveals in the plot I thought werenít hinted at actually were.
Four: Tsugumi remains my favorite female character in the game and the drama surrounding her never failed to get an emotional response out of me.
Five: Several unanswered questions I think I can answer (Even if there is zero proof to back some of it up.)
And six: The resolution did break up my suspension of disbelief. I canít deny that.
I could somewhat justify it with the logic of the cure syndrome, but it still is shaky at best.

But despite that, I still absolutely love this game. Even if I played more solid games and even if I didn't find the ending perfect, it's still my favorite VN. It was the VN that clued me in to what a great medium VNs could be and it's a story that I won't forget.
Title: Re: Ever 17
Post by: hyperknees91 on May 24, 2013, 02:38:13 AM
I actually haven't finished this game (on the last route) I haven't been able to bring myself to finish. It's just so incredibly slow and the girls routes are pretty darn underwhelming (Takashi's had some ok moments, but the kid's routes are just plain bland and lacking). As you can imagine I'm not really seeing what makes this game so special, even if the ending is brilliant (haven't seen this). Plus I expect some cheezy happy go lucky ending anyway, so I doubt it can make that strong of an impact on me. The only characters that really stand out are Sora and Tsugumi for me. Granted I'm not saying it's a bad game, it's still far superior than most anime and manga stories. It's just very hard for me to keep any interest in it.

Though the extreme sexual innuendo scene in Sara's path was hilarious as hell I won't lie.

I think I'm spoiled because I played so many later awesome VN's so maybe I've just gotten too picky these days.
Title: Re: Ever 17
Post by: The Big Guy on May 24, 2013, 03:04:18 AM
The only thing that I'm still a little angry about is that Hirameki had a huge typo in its translation of You's route that spoiled part of Coco's route for me, but darn Coco's route is so much better than the rest of the game combined. Made the whole experience worth it, in my opinion.
Title: Re: Ever 17
Post by: thanosmat on May 24, 2013, 11:12:50 PM
I actually haven't finished this game (on the last route) I haven't been able to bring myself to finish. It's just so incredibly slow and the girls routes are pretty darn underwhelming (Takashi's had some ok moments, but the kid's routes are just plain bland and lacking). As you can imagine I'm not really seeing what makes this game so special, even if the ending is brilliant (haven't seen this). Plus I expect some cheezy happy go lucky ending anyway, so I doubt it can make that strong of an impact on me. The only characters that really stand out are Sora and Tsugumi for me. Granted I'm not saying it's a bad game, it's still far superior than most anime and manga stories. It's just very hard for me to keep any interest in it.

Though the extreme sexual innuendo scene in Sara's path was hilarious as hell I won't lie.

I think I'm spoiled because I played so many later awesome VN's so maybe I've just gotten too picky these days.

Play the last route (Coco). There is a great chance to change your mind and make the entire experience worthwhile. And trust you don't know nothing about the ending if you think this way, (unless that you have read spoilers)
Title: Re: Ever 17
Post by: hyperknees91 on May 25, 2013, 04:09:05 AM
Quote

Play the last route (Coco). There is a great chance to change your mind and make the entire experience worthwhile. And trust you don't know nothing about the ending if you think this way, (unless that you have read spoilers)

So it's one of those ending loaded games eh? I guess after I finish reading swan song I can, and I'll update if I completely change my mind (and knowing me it's certainly possible).
Title: Re: Ever 17
Post by: ImperialX on May 27, 2013, 11:04:52 PM
The only thing that I'm still a little angry about is that Hirameki had a huge typo in its translation of You's route that spoiled part of Coco's route for me, but darn Coco's route is so much better than the rest of the game combined. Made the whole experience worth it, in my opinion.

Look at the bright side, I know two people who would have dropped the game if they didn't give away a huge hint during You's arc. The spoiler is essence was what actually gave them the motivation to actually continue playing (since you know...for most people not used to VNs, the first four arcs are pretty gruelling).
Title: Re: Ever 17
Post by: hyperknees91 on July 22, 2013, 02:45:05 PM
So it did have the cheezy happy go lucky ending I was expecting. Though it was a very good cheezy happy go lucky ending so I'm not too displeased.

As a story it was pretty great, loved the plot twist at the end and all the clues that built up to it. I do think the main weakness of the VN is that none of the characters really stand out (other than Tsugumi) and You and Sara's routes are a good bit weaker than the rest (they serve as puzzle pieces but don't really stand on their own).

So yeah overall it was a good experience, not the best by a mile but a nice clever plot. I can tell where Steins Gate came up with it's ending now.