The Nihon Review Forum

The Nihon Review Topic Discussion => Manga => Topic started by: Sidenote on February 18, 2016, 10:11:07 AM

Title: Farewell, Bleach
Post by: Sidenote on February 18, 2016, 10:11:07 AM
I was gonna try and stick with it until chapter 700. I figured I would give it as along as Naruto to say what it needed to say, then jump ship.

But I couldn't do it.

Bleach really was good. Kubo had a great sense of humor, fresh characters, and an extremely interesting take on character development. He liked to introduce characters who were, for the most part, fully developed, since his story premise requires all Shinigami, hollows, and Arrancar to be hundreds if not thousands of years old. So his character development lay in backstories and in the heat of battle. He was able to create some amazing symbolism and development in the heat of a super charged battle, because only then would his 100+ year old characters truly find themselves pushed to the limit. This kept a lot of his fights interesting, and separated Bleach from a more typical shounen like Naruto or DBZ.

All the greatest fights in Bleach (the fight with Grimmjow, Ulquierra, Aizen, the first fight with Renji, the first Hollow, and the first fight with Kenpachi, and the first appearance of Ichigo's bankai are the ones I'm thinking of) weren't just cool for their shounen draw. Sure, that was a big plus for sure. There's nothing wrong with wanting to see a bunch of OP death-gods go at it with oversized swords. That's why shounen can be so fun. But Kubo had a way of adding a little more to the fight, of adding substance and meaning.

Which is why I'm one of the crazy fans who really believes Bleach should have ended after Ichigo loses his powers and has to say farewell to everybody. The manga had said everything it needed to say. It had developed all of the key characters, and left us with that somber feeling of reality like few other shounen's do. That feeling of 'all good things must come to an end.'

But then it kept going. And going. And going. Now it's just become a weekly womp on the nostalgia; let's see what fantastic story item we can destroy this time.

So I've finally done the deed. I dropped Bleach. Nostalgia could only keep me with it so long. To me the manga is as good as dead.

Having said all that, I do have questions: do y'all think Bleach was any good (as a manga)? Do you think Kubo can go for another series once he's finished this one?
Title: Re: Farewell, Bleach
Post by: Zeitgeist on February 18, 2016, 10:49:25 AM
As if humans could cope with such a drastic return to normalcy.I know that ,as a person, I dont think I could ever fathom the extreme disconnect inherent with having saved the world with god-like powers and then just taking up a 9-5. I'd either kill myself or John Carter it and spend the remainder of my life attempting to re-find Narnia. Yu Yu Hakusho somewhat delved into such a plotline but w/e.

Ichigo's first bankai always struck me as massively underwhelming. Here we had some entity which had exised for some 1000 years and yet some 15 year old kid simply needed 3 days and a cardboard cut-out to step to him? Talk about establishing a poor precedence

Bleach's main problem was always its insistent desire to drag characters from one arc into the next. At a certain point it gets ridiculous. Does anyone care about Yumichika Ayasegawa or Wabisuke(which was my favorite zanpaktou) guy? The answer is no. I only found maybe 4 captains half way endearing. Just leave characters within their respective arcs. Granted, given the nature of the narrative and the central importance the Soul Society, some callbacks may be forgiven. But come on. This also extends to Ichigo's band of friends whom nobody ever cared for.

Anyway, I called it quits after the Ulquiorra fight. Partly because the show's narrative was shit. Partly because Ulquiorra looked bad-ass. And Mainly because the fight was just a shameless copy of Yusuke v Sensui.

All of this is based solely on the anime.

Also, My favorite character was Ichinose Maki.

Also Tosen had the coolest Shikai. I want it.

Edit:
Why was Grimmjow's ultimate attack an AoE? He deem that useful? Under what circumstances is an Espada dispensing of the ravel with anything more than a cero. Convenient for Ichigo
Title: Re: Farewell, Bleach
Post by: themaster20000 on February 18, 2016, 10:54:27 AM
That first arc of Bleach was really good. The Hollow-hunting was some really exciting stuff. Then came the Soul Scociety arc where it just turned into another run-of-the-mill schlock shonen. It introduced way to many characters then it needed,and the fights became DBZ nonsense.
Title: Re: Farewell, Bleach
Post by: Marid King on February 18, 2016, 11:27:28 AM
Bleach had no soul. Just a lot of posturing and 'this isn't even my final form', spread thinly over about 5 panels per page.

At least Naruto had heart and was funny.
Title: Re: Farewell, Bleach
Post by: TypicalIdiotFan on February 18, 2016, 02:04:10 PM
I fully understand.  This is supposed to be the "last" story arc of Bleach, and it has now gone on longer than any of the previous ones combined.

Plus, I'm pretty sure Kubo has no idea where he's going with this anymore.
Title: Re: Farewell, Bleach
Post by: samui on February 18, 2016, 07:11:08 PM
I have the same sentiment with Sidenote. Bleach was good with the first until the Soul Society Arc. Then the anime version was marred by fillers (Bount Arc was the only decent one) and the manga turned into an ugly shounen trope and has some poorly developed characters. Yeah. I gave up reading it when I realized the 1,000 year whatsoever war is not going to end anytime soon.
Title: Re: Farewell, Bleach
Post by: TypicalIdiotFan on February 18, 2016, 09:47:53 PM
Bount arc was awful.  I oddly liked the Zanpakuto rebellion at first, but the way it was resolved was awful.  Having them come back later for reasons was even stupider.
Title: Re: Farewell, Bleach
Post by: samui on February 18, 2016, 10:02:53 PM
Uhm... I actually thought the Zanpakutou rebellion is worse than the Bount Arc but that could be because I am still enticed by Bleach when I watched that.
Title: Re: Farewell, Bleach
Post by: SQA on February 18, 2016, 11:16:32 PM
Kubo probably only has this Manga in him.  That's true of a lot of creators.  And I don't blame a guy for milking his cash-cow series.  He's still selling 400k+ per volume, so it makes good money for everyone involved.  But the series only had through the Soul Society arc thought out. There's a very noticeable "need an even BIGGER BAD GUY!" effect.

Still, it'll be considered a good series again... after it ends.
Title: Re: Farewell, Bleach
Post by: Reckoner on February 18, 2016, 11:33:30 PM
Bleach was good. I thought Soul Society arc was fun, though Bleach before that was like a completely different show. Anyone who says that Bleach didn't have special qualities that made it fun at the beginning is lying. However, the greatest test of any shounen action manga series is if it can sustain its quality all the way through. Hunter x Hunter is remarkable because it does manage that (Though all the hiatuses might be a factor there). Bleach couldn't. Naruto managed it far longer than most ever do, but even when it fell off a bit it still managed to keep itself respectable. I couldn't say the same for Bleach.
Title: Re: Farewell, Bleach
Post by: Sidenote on February 19, 2016, 03:54:18 PM
Well, rather than answer various people separately, lemme just say this as a blanket statement:

I'm not talking about the anime. Anime was fun (sorta), but it's not as good as the manga. Feel free to talk about the anime. But I did post this in the manga section for a reason.

That said, I'm sorta confused about the whole 'poorly developed characters' complaint. Am I the only one who thought that most of the side characters weren't supposed to have (much) character dev.? I always thought that that was the shounen draw of Bleach: rather than have a bunch of level one characters show up with a bunch of increasingly cooler moves, just make a bunch of level 100 characters go through increasingly difficult situations.

The Hollow-hunting was some really exciting stuff.

The hollow hunting seemed to me to be the most stereotypical stuff. Fun, yes, but admittedly stereotypical. Just run of the mill 'bad guy/monster of the week' stuff.

Uhm... I actually thought the Zanpakutou rebellion is worse than the Bount Arc

I'm with you on that too. It wasn't that great, because that was when the show started to introduce too many non cannon powers (non-elemental, physical, or logical powers), so a lot of the villains were just bogus. However, the arc was good in that it did what few fillers do, which is add some lasting character development (explained more about Ichigo's hollow power and what/why he fights for), and had a big boss who wasn't just someone who wanted power for power's sake.

As if humans could cope with such a drastic return to normalcy.I know that ,as a person, I dont think I could ever fathom the extreme disconnect inherent with having saved the world with god-like powers and then just taking up a 9-5. I'd either kill myself or John Carter it and spend the remainder of my life attempting to re-find Narnia. Yu Yu Hakusho somewhat delved into such a plotline but w/e.


Yup, and apparently, the author couldn't cope with it either. It would have made for a great ending, though (provided, just a little more denouement).

Ichigo's first bankai always struck me as massively underwhelming. Here we had some entity which had exised for some 1000 years and yet some 15 year old kid simply needed 3 days and a cardboard cut-out to step to him? Talk about establishing a poor precedence

The reasoning could go either way; Urahara is also hundreds of years old and has been doing research on this stuff for a long. And the logic behind it was pretty explainable; the reason it always took so long for a bankai is because it takes a long time for you to forge a relationship with it so that you can actually meet it. Urahara bypassed that need for a relationship by forcing it to come out; but it had it's reprecussions. Ichigo didn't have as clean of mastery as most others over his bankai for most of the manga. His control over it was also significantly less. And the same problems applied to Renji too, so the author was consistent. For once.
Title: Re: Farewell, Bleach
Post by: TypicalIdiotFan on February 19, 2016, 06:17:36 PM
Yeah, but the most recent arc blew all that shit up by explaining that Ichigo's bankai powers were never legit ones anyway.
Title: Re: Farewell, Bleach
Post by: Sidenote on February 19, 2016, 10:02:52 PM
Yeah, but the most recent arc blew all that shit up by explaining that Ichigo's bankai powers were never legit ones anyway.

Having recently dropped Bleach and jumped head first into the hopeless sect of fandom that only recognizes the first 400ish chapters as cannon, I am sorry to say that I have no idea what you're talking about.
Title: Re: Farewell, Bleach
Post by: TypicalIdiotFan on February 20, 2016, 12:07:32 AM
Oh it's good.  The old man whom we've all assumed is Ichigo's zanpakuto personality is actually a control mechanism of the Quincy head God dude to prevent Ichigo's real powers from manifesting for reasons that I don't remember or care about.
Title: Re: Farewell, Bleach
Post by: gedata on February 20, 2016, 02:06:58 PM
Only reading it at this point because the chapters only take a minute or two to read. The reason why the Soul Society arc worked was because, even though it quadrupled the cast and became super-shouneny, most of the adversaries had distinct reasons for doing what they did and it had a memorable finish that turned everything on its head. Now we just have boring, never ending conga line of baddies to wade through.
Title: Re: Farewell, Bleach
Post by: genki sakura on April 08, 2016, 01:00:32 PM
I think I gave up around the time he lost his powers. Like with Naruto, I fell behind on too many chapters. Nowadays, I'll occasionally see/check some tags on tumblr to see if there was anything particularly good I missed. But if there is a defined end point, I might spend a good day catching up on the manga (I won't attempt the anime).


Also, the only character I've ever cosplayed as was Rukia, so I suppose I'll always be somewhat sentimental about the series.


And on that note...

The old man whom we've all assumed is Ichigo's zanpakuto personality is actually a control mechanism of the Quincy head God dude to prevent Ichigo's real powers from manifesting for reasons that I don't remember or care about.

...the ****? Seriously?

(Actually I could see that.)
Title: Re: Farewell, Bleach
Post by: TypicalIdiotFan on April 08, 2016, 07:42:16 PM
Holy shit on a frog!  Where the hell have you been, girl?
Title: Re: Farewell, Bleach
Post by: genki sakura on April 09, 2016, 08:02:38 AM
I got reaaaally lost in time and space >_>

(And I still haven't achieved bankai.)

How have you been?

Title: Re: Farewell, Bleach
Post by: TypicalIdiotFan on April 09, 2016, 06:39:26 PM
Good good.  Getting done with college and heading towards a scientific career.  Still being an ass.
Title: Re: Farewell, Bleach
Post by: genki sakura on April 09, 2016, 08:28:56 PM
Excellent!



As for Bleach: I don't know if I should just blame my computer or if it's fate, but I just tried to read the latest chapter (for kicks) and the internet seems to be working against me...but apparently Yachiru's still around or something...