The Nihon Review Forum

The Nihon Review Topic Discussion => Anime => Topic started by: Sorrow-kun on July 03, 2014, 12:10:14 AM

Title: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Sorrow-kun on July 03, 2014, 12:10:14 AM
http://www.crunchyroll.com/anime-news/2014/07/02/crunchyroll-to-stream-aldnoahzero-anime

Get hype for the Butcher!

Well, that's how it's being marketed anyway, but if I understand the full details (and I possibly don't), Urobuchi Gen's involvement in this isn't actually that active, as he only came up with the original concept, and Takayama Katsuhiko is in charge of the script (who has a decent background in adaptations like the first anime version of FMA as well as ef: memories and melodies... and also two of the Boku no Pico OVAs, if that counts for anything). The director in this case is Aoki Ei who most will remember was also in charge of Fate/Zero (and the hugely underrated Wandering Son), while it's being animated by A-1, who have been a little bit hit and miss in recent times.

I'm not sure what I think of Urobuchi's recent trend of pitching mecha series after the let-down that was Gargantia. I'm still confused as to what he brings to the genre, and if his track record previous is an indication, he's definitely more comfortable with psychological thrillers (examples too numerous to list).  He could carve out a serious niche in an underrepresented genre and no-one would disrespect him for it, but like most people in the industry who establish a reputation, there comes a point where one feels the overwhelming urge to branch out and try something new, which is pretty much how I see his recent foray into the mecha genre. What I'm a little bit disappointed in is that he's not taking a more active role in this project.  If it fails, he can just take his hands away and say "I only came up with the original concept... I didn't actually write the script".  I'd like to see him own it, and for the marketing/hype campaign in the lead up (which seems to have his name plastered all over it, at least in the places I've seen it) to have a bit of truth about it.  On the other side of the coin, he is a busy man, and that second season of Psycho Pass isn't going to write itself.  Someone has to keep the moe out
(as if to imply that Psycho Pass wasn't the most intensely moe anime of whatever year it came out.)
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Reckoner on July 03, 2014, 01:46:18 AM
With Gargantia Gen literally only wrote the first and last episode scripts. The quality of the mid portions of that show is indicative of his absence throughout the production. He was not credited as series creator, which is what he is for this show. That and he will be planning out the general story with people at Nitro+. From interviews and stuff, script composition by Takayama is literally just compiling whatever Gen and the others churn out into watchable TV episodes.

As far as I am concerned, he really does OWN this project. Gargantia? Not so much.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: SQA on July 03, 2014, 03:10:51 AM
Garganita was the Director's story/creation.  Gen was brought in early, and his touch was very noticeable.  It's quite a grounded sci-fi series.   And, for that series, the mistake was getting our main cast off the Gargantia.

As for what Gen brings to this concept: it's a Mecha, but it's really a Earth/Mars war.  I think that's right up his skill set. 
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Pebble on July 03, 2014, 08:55:13 AM
So, random tidbit: Ei Aoki directed Ga Rei: Zero, Fate/Zero, and is now doing Aldnoah.Zero. Common points are the zeroes and the liberal punctuation.

I am happy about his involvement in this; he's done Wandering Son and one of the best KnK movies, he knows how to make shows look pretty without motion, and, to a degree, how to make his visuals reinforce infodump. Those skills are well-suited to space-opera scifi.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: KS on July 03, 2014, 10:42:43 AM
Interesting we have a thread before the show even starts.  I'm like as mixed as I've ever been and have possibly never been less sure if I'm going to enjoy a show or not.  On the one hand mecha is my favorite genre and on paper the staff sounds interesting....but then on paper the staff sounds interesting and like it could be a hit based on pulling in each individual staff members respective fanbase alone, which each individual key staffer is popular enough to legitimately have.  Last time Aniplex went to this much trouble to pull in this many big names and stick them on a show they claimed was going to be the next bleeding edge thing in anime we got the flashy but utterly nonsensical Guilty Crown which couldn't decide even for a couple episodes at a time what direction it wanted to go in if any.  Plus I just find Aniplex's big hyped up shows that they make grandoise promises about never seem to work out and it's like they expect that they can just assemble all these big names and leave it at that.  It's really almost comical just how many of the most hyped and IMO tremendously overrated staffers they've assembled for this one, like they are trying to give sites like MAL a raging hard on or something.  You've got Gen Urobuchi who is probably the most well known name in writing for anime right now, Ei Aoki who directed the tremendously hyped but ultimately pretty solid Fate/Zero, Hiroyuki Sawano who I used to like but is now just phoning it in with his standard "epic" sound and just really badly sung German lyric songs that tend to feel out of place, Yuki Kaijuri who I've never understood the popularity of cause so many of her soundtracks just kind of sound like generic choral chants.....honestly the more this show tries to sell itself to me the more I kind of feel like backing up from it a bit the way overzealous peddlers in street markets tend to sketch me out.  It's like somebody is trying to hard somewhere and not confident in the shows ability to sell itself on it's own that they need to lure people in and keep them hyped up using big names, promises like it will surpass the Gundam franchise and just kind of an overbearing blanket advertisement campaign that makes the likes of Love Live look positively modest.

It's a shame because instead of thinking, "Oh cool new mecha series, this could be solid summer time fun" I'm now thinking "Okay what are they hiding and what are they trying to distract me from initially".  In any case this will probably be the most watched mecha anime in a long time based on the sheer hype value of the staff alone and people watching it just based off of those names whether they are a fan of the genre or not or even understand it's history and what has and hasn't been attempted before so the commentary on it should prove nothing if not interesting.

By the way perhaps the OP is not informed of it, but Gen Urobuchi will not be writing the second Psycho Pass season or seemingly be involved at all.  That will be handled by Tow Ubukata (GiTS, Mardock Scramble).  Frankly not surprised though given recent trends with the guy and now I'm starting to think Urobuchi might not even be an active writer anymore at all but just a name that Aniplex puts on a box in order to try to sell a product harder to fanboys.  I can't really say I have much respect for the guy these days since he's seemingly not doing much of any real active work, what he apparently has worked actively on involves his thematic stuff starting to become stale and just kind of centered around mean-spirited and nihilistic twists that shit on altruistic concepts (too one-sided and "for the shock value" IMO), and for IMO caving too easily to producer demands on some recent projects.  Like if he's just going to sit back and collect based off of reputation from past works and not actually do anything I just don't see how I can have much reason to care about the guys name being on stuff anymore.

Imagine I've had all that to say about this shows staff before the show even airs.  The producers behind this project totally know what they're doing no doubt, it's just a matter if whether it'll all be worth it in the end.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Redgrave on July 03, 2014, 05:26:45 PM
You are being way too affected by hype K.S.

I have learned to get out of the hype train by not setting foot on MAL forums(unless it's a series that i like or wanted to post to) or any other big anime forums.

And honestly, i like Gargantia. It's a nice change of pace and i like the fact that it's more  slice-of-life. Gen only wrote the first and last episode i believe.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: KS on July 03, 2014, 05:49:15 PM
You are being way too affected by hype K.S.

I have learned to get out of the hype train by not setting foot on MAL forums(unless it's a series that i like or wanted to post to) or any other big anime forums.

And honestly, i like Gargantia. It's a nice change of pace and i like the fact that it's more  slice-of-life. Gen only wrote the first and last episode i believe.

Its other things than that.  All the producers really had to do was keep their damn mouths shut and let the trailers do the talking and I would have been highly anticipating this one but now they've made some of the most ridiculous and arrogant claims I've ever heard and now the show has basically become something of a big hype joke during the lead up to it.  I also just don't think that Gen Urobuchi is the sole solution to all problems.  I honestly couldn't care less if he's writing it or not as long as its good, but a lot apparently seems to hinge on it for many people obviously.  It'll be cool if this show gets to be about the show and not some big shot writers presence or not on the project.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Redgrave on July 03, 2014, 06:04:08 PM
You are being way too affected by hype K.S.

I have learned to get out of the hype train by not setting foot on MAL forums(unless it's a series that i like or wanted to post to) or any other big anime forums.

And honestly, i like Gargantia. It's a nice change of pace and i like the fact that it's more  slice-of-life. Gen only wrote the first and last episode i believe.

 All the producers really had to do was keep their damn mouths shut and let the trailers do the talking and I would have been highly anticipating this one but now they've made some of the most ridiculous and arrogant claims I've ever heard and now the show has basically become something of a big hype joke during the lead up to it.

Ah, so for the most part they are like game devs of the modern video game industry. I have never watched those videos because most of their videos are blocked in my country.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Sorrow-kun on July 03, 2014, 07:47:39 PM
Interesting we have a thread before the show even starts.
I kinda think opening posts on this board should provide more information/previewing of the show so I'm trying to set an example.  A first impression doesn't really serve someone who knows nothing about the show because the vast majority of impressions written on forums in general make the assumption that the reader has already watched the first episode.

Edit: One thing I really should make a habit of doing in OP posts is providing a link to the trailer as well. I just assumed the trailer was in the CR news link I posted.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: KS on July 03, 2014, 10:01:14 PM
Interesting we have a thread before the show even starts.
I kinda think opening posts on this board should provide more information/previewing of the show so I'm trying to set an example.  A first impression doesn't really serve someone who knows nothing about the show because the vast majority of impressions written on forums in general make the assumption that the reader has already watched the first episode.

Edit: One thing I really should make a habit of doing in OP posts is providing a link to the trailer as well. I just assumed the trailer was in the CR news link I posted.

I like that idea, often times how you think a show will turn out as its being promoted versus how it actually turns out can be a story in and of itself.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Kiniest on July 03, 2014, 10:02:58 PM
Interesting we have a thread before the show even starts.
I kinda think opening posts on this board should provide more information/previewing of the show so I'm trying to set an example.  A first impression doesn't really serve someone who knows nothing about the show because the vast majority of impressions written on forums in general make the assumption that the reader has already watched the first episode.

Edit: One thing I really should make a habit of doing in OP posts is providing a link to the trailer as well. I just assumed the trailer was in the CR news link I posted.

I like that idea, often times how you think a show will turn out as its being promoted versus how it actually turns out can be a story in and of itself.

I don't think that's the general point of his idea.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Shadowmage on July 05, 2014, 01:48:29 PM
Episode 1

So basically this is Gundam except in an alternate universe where Zeon has taken over.  Like Fate/Zero, there doesn't seem to be a big focus on the main protagonist; rather, the show employs a a rather sizable ensemble cast.  The characterization is pretty nice, but the MC is L-ELF levels of autistic, or perhaps she has a heart of stone like Emiya Kiritsugu.  Regardless the show does have a kind of gravity that seems to be missing in a lot of anime that tries to be serious.  The final scene where the children ironically talks about peace feels misplaced, but the rest of the episode felt solid.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: thanosmat on July 05, 2014, 02:20:46 PM
EP 01

All the space opera cliches in one episode. The 2D character animation is very good, though.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Marid King on July 05, 2014, 06:24:29 PM
1:

Rather hamfisted, but an otherwise smart show that knows how to make a spectacle, much in the style of Attack on Titan. This'll probably be quite decent.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: The Big Guy on July 05, 2014, 07:42:29 PM
1:

This is straight up Turn A Gundam, which is really funny because I've been watching it for the past couple weeks. Only difference is that the main character isn't from Mars, but other than that it's about the same. Not much happened this episode, but I have faith it will be good.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: MCAL on July 05, 2014, 08:44:04 PM
1:
Two excellent premieres in a row. And just in case you didn't know who was writing this... I present you the ending. Obviously the princess is alive (Not enough despair there), so there isn't much mystery to that (Especially when they didn't show her face) And the animation was excellent.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: KS on July 05, 2014, 09:49:15 PM
1:  I definitely liked the first half better than the second half by a lot for reasons I'll explain in a moment.  The first half almost sort of redeemed Gen Urobuchi as a writer for me there by making good use of exposition and some character dialogue.  I was actually like what's this, Gen Urobuchi showing people interacting moderately normally if a little exposition oriented as well as establishing some of the principle casts relationships and roles in the story?  Not to mention it felt like Hiroyuki Sawano was actually trying to have a diverse soundtrack for the first time in ages.  I think the colonel character interested me the most in that he seems to know the most of an Earthling about the things that are actually going on and the things that could transpire and doesn't think anybody is ready to deal with it.  I'd like to think he's the Gen self-insert character for this show but sadly I think it's the Nihilistic Robot Inaho.

This is where the second half comes in and I feel we get to the part that the show wants to sell itself by and I'm kind of left with the same feeling of ham-fisted that Marid King felt.  We have the amusingly evil 37 lords that feel straight out of GHQ from Guilty Crown (the one guy filing his nails all casually slayed me) with their god complexes and their death drill drop ready castle things just chomping at the bit to **** over everyone on Earth for whatever reason, we have the idealistic Princess character that pretty much anyone could have predicted and will likely continue to be the target of Gen's ire because he hates anyone that represents idealism and loves to champion the characters that represent nihilism and malice or at the very least contrive ways to put them on equal footing.  It can make his writing really predictable at times because I don't think anyone couldn't have predicted the nuke the Princess moment.  It had to happen to give the diabolical lords a reason to go ahead and sow destruction, but what I found amusing was how he seemed to know it and figure that's not enough so the show needed another shocker to follow that so people had more to talk about.  How can Gen just **** with people and make them say I can't believe he did that.  Sydney always gets ****ed in these when the colonies or asteroids start dropping, but again that would be too predictable.  They could have tried attacking Sendai, but I think that would be a little too close to home even for Gen and cause the station airing it to pull the episode.  How about something foreign, what horrible tragedy that has happened in recent memory could be exploited to illicit that shocker moment.  Well gee whiz how about New Orleans which is still rebuilding after getting wiped out by a hurricane.  Drop a Death Drill Castle right on New Orleans, that'll shock those viewers and make this show the talk of the town. 

A couple of other kind of painful Gen being Gen moments that kind of make me wonder that sprung to mind too in the second half were what I'm pretty sure his focus/insert character for this show is in the bizarrely detached and seemingly nihilistic Inaho that I mentioned earlier.  His interactions with others don't really make a whole lot of sense at this point with him just seeming like some sort of zombie that thinks whatever if there's a missile that's about to hit the plaza he's at.  Maybe we should move out of the way guys, but you know like whatever.  There's other ways to convey that a character is supposed to be cool and emotionless than doing so in such an on the nose manner.  Not really much of a fan of this Inaho guy so far (Even his sister gets more screen time and is a more interesting character) and found myself sympathizing far more with his apparent counterpart from the opposing side who we unfortunately don't see as much of in the second half in Slaine Troyard.  I assume he'll be one of those characters that Gen will be finding ways to torment over the course of the next couple episodes and in whatever outlines he contributes once Boku no Pico guy takes over since he's an Earthling that is totally downtrodden by his diabolical masters and by all appearances just saw the one person that has ever treated him like a human being die in an event that could see his homeland destroyed forever.  That's a decent reason to be invested in and want to do something in this whole deal so I hope to see more of him and not just to be used as a punching bag.

Overall though this is still the best premiere I've seen so far this season, but that really shouldn't come as a surprise as it's pretty much up my alley.  I just hope it pursues more of what we saw in the first half and not as much as what we saw in the second all action sequences aside and what not.  Speaking of action sequences we have yet to see one really aside from the big obligatory Gen Urobuchi shocker moments.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Pebble on July 06, 2014, 09:08:13 AM
1:

So, the Vers Empire is the Advent?
A lot of the backdrop, and what we can infer about it, depends on what exactly Aldnoah is. We know it's a technology of an ancient civilization, and its safe to say that the civilization was not human, despite us not knowing when the show takes place. We see evidence of the destructive potential of this tech in the moon, but we don't know exactly what this is. My guess is that Aldnoah is simply the blanket term for all this technology, so Aldnoah is not a specific technology as much as it is a bottomless well of promises and technology.

They fashion themselves an Empire, and their military wings lie under knights. The system is clearly monarchical, but the catch here is that they have origins from earth, and from an era that is post-monarchical, and incredibly opposed, at least officially and on the face of it, to the concentration of power in the hands of a few dynasties. What went down in space to trigger this shift in ideals for the space folks? It was clearly something big. The predictable response is simple regression, but I really doubt that, and the show is steering away from the Gundamisms in the rhetoric it uses to describe them.
Slayne, and the description of Aldnoah as the "Power of the Gods" is our key here. Versians think themselves as an enlightened race, and I think their choice of monarchy isn't very unreasonable at all if you consider that the show is set in a world where a supranational entity holds a lot of power. Its really not too far a stretch that some person saw the UN, or its successor(s) as simply a first-world imperialist power, and decided that that kind of concentration of power is toxic and needs to be contested; hence the Vers Empire. The system sets in, the intellectual hubris begins to run deep, and eventually becomes plain hate. It wouldn't be the first time an intellectual movement spawned hatred. All speculation tho, but speculation is fun, and the show is giving me fodder.
Or it could simply be that the Vers Empress sees themselves as Godsent reformers; the knights of reason and virtue, if you will. This show could go any which way, but it's in a good spot right now.

There's also this question about the "lies" that are being told, though I can't for the life of me wonder what they are. Clearly this show is going to tread in the "no one-history" area, and I reeeeally hope they don't go the Gundam route. There's nothing wrong with the Gundam route, though I find it implausible for a planetary colony, but I'd rather the show carved its own legacy.
Political manoeuvrings are always fun to watch, and I wonder who planned out this attack, and since they had some really hi-tech stuff on them, its probably the case that they're Vers. Hell, the whole thing is pretty obviously that same incident Hitler used as an excuse to invade Czechoslovakia. I forget what it was called.

On technical fronts, I don't think this is Eriko Kimura's best work by a long shot; the sound direction has this 'blunt instrument' feel to it, and though the OST isn't bad by any stretch of the term, the tracks on display aren't among Sawano's memorable ones. I think the episode also showcases Ei Aoki's sense of casually placing background exposition while other things are happening, which is reminiscent of his work in Kara no Kyoukai. Also, while I'm confident in his ability to produce memorable shots, I worry about whether he has the sense for action and motion that a show like this demands to a degree that Wandering Son and Fate/Zero didn't come close to. What he needs to capture here is not the static, introspections of Kara no Kyoukai's characters, but motion, scope, dynamism, and scale. There's also the issue of him being generally rather uncreative with how he delivers all this explicit exposition.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Reckoner on July 12, 2014, 12:52:23 PM
2:

A mostly solid follow up episode. I suspect that Gen will eventually weave some sort of moral conundrum into this conflict as he always does in his stories so the fact that the one martian dude they're fighting in this episode is a flat out psychopath without a hint of depth isn't too concerning for me. However, I do hope that's not the actual standard of characterization we should expect from the Martian side. I expect we'll get some more interesting characters there anyhow, so it's not much of a problem. The main thing I want to find out in this story is why they decided to invade earth in the first place and how the conflict really started. Should be plenty of juicy storytelling there.

Sawano's sound track suffers from a bit of the problem he had in Kill La Kill and Attack on Titan. Mainly, too many vocal tracks where the music sounds better without the vocals.It's mostly fine, but yeah less singing please.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Marid King on July 12, 2014, 12:54:58 PM
2:

Yeah baby! The action! The drama! The dramatic irony! Amazing!

I'm really liking how Nao is blithely unaffected by everything that happens around him. It's not surprising to see him stepping up as the leader because of this. I'm also liking how the shields seem to work, though I wonder if this means they are vulnerable to lasers.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: KS on July 12, 2014, 01:10:30 PM
2:  I usually don't mind ham fistedly evil villains terribly much (though they REALLY drove it home this episode in particular whereas last episode there was at least a moderate degree of ambiguity as they were sticking it to those Earthling scum), but juxtaposed with the seemingly uncaring Earth crew driving around a wasteland picking up survivors like it ain't no thing just gave this episode kind of a surreal feel.  I'm not sure I'm enjoying this all that much yet as I probably should be and usually I'm one of the first people to jump on board with a mecha series.  I feel like this shows characters need a lot of work and to be given something to do other than just be given expository dialogue to mutter.  I mean for the sheer spectacle of it all it's kind of enjoyable, but that's really been about it so far.

I also couldn't help notice that the one character to not utter any sort of grim expository dialogue and to show any sort of emotional affectation that wasn't just "GRRR KILL ME GOD YOU INSECT!" was also the one recurring character so far to die and the one named character that showed any sort of positive emotion last episode got the fake death only too by saved by her main character plot armor of not actually being there after all cause she was sick apparently.  Funny how that works as a pretty reliable death flag in a Gen Urobuchi show.  I mean I remember when it was when you make the love confession or say you are going to do something important when you get back that you're probably toast, but it seems like in this show showing any sort of positivism or hope can get you or someone else people think is you killed with in moments.  Pretty amusing.

Anyway maybe it'll be like Gundam AGE where the Martians feel they were abandoned by Earth somehow in their far flung colonies and now that they're all super bitter about it.  At least I hope that's the case cause these antagonists could use a lot more motive other than god complexes and an easy go to source for enacting chaos, carnage and despair.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: MCAL on July 12, 2014, 06:39:07 PM
2:
Yeah, this is definitely being written by Gen Urobuchi...

The big question is how do you defeat something that is seemingly invincible. I'm definitely interested to find out.

And the princess is surprisingly strong.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Sorrow-kun on July 12, 2014, 06:58:25 PM
Ep 2

Well, that certainly incites strong feelings of "**** the Martians". A war fought for no reason other than being a stage for Martian courtesans to play out a superficial power struggle. There's no shortage of arrogance and nationalistic pride among those in power from Mars. That's part of the reason why I see this overall as a possible parable for World War I, whose main lesson for history was that "arrogance" and "nationalistic pride" are two things that you can't allow to grow completely unchecked without suffering dire consequences. It's why the Martians seem so anachronistic in many ways: they either haven't learned or have forgotten one of the 20th Century's most important lessons.  In many ways, they are the ones with primitive minds, fighting with primitive tactics with technology that is superior simply because of happenstance (just like WWI). I can't wait to see their arrogant asses served to them on a platter, in all honesty.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: KS on July 12, 2014, 07:34:03 PM
2:
Yeah, this is definitely being written by Gen Urobuchi...

The big question is how do you defeat something that is seemingly invincible. I'm definitely interested to find out.

And the princess is surprisingly strong.

Princess characters are always kind of like that in anime culture nowadays though.  It kind of helped though that the MC is pretty much the just lie there and take it kind of guy which I guess was a bit of a calculated risk on her part.  I doubt she tries something like that with an actual soldier unless it's from behind or something.

The way I see it the answer to that question is you kind of do what the 3 powers did in Gundam 00 when confronted with the Gundams, find a way to get better tech (this applies to the original OYW arc of Gundam as well but I figure people are more familiar with 00).  It's kind of the same scenario, the Gundams were just so far ahead of even the bleeding edge mobile suit tech of the error and their solid weapons just bounced off of there GN fields making them look similarly like gods unto an insect but they studied them and captured some of their technology to try and reverse engineer and some characters even managed to jack Gundam GN weapons and use them against them quite effectively while relying on good old fashioned experience.  Of course the world powers were still close to just surrendering to Celestial Being when one of their own turned traitor and gifted them GN drives to equip on their mechs and suddenly it became the Gundams that were on their heels just trying to survive and by the second season things were pretty even.

My guess is somebody, probably the princess since she seems like the only sympathetic person on the Martian side right now (which I really hope changes), finds a way to gift Earth some sort of tech that will at least give them a fighting chance and that there's some drama there in her basically having to fight against her own people to save another and do what is right.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Marid King on July 12, 2014, 07:38:27 PM
The Martians are effectively a new nation; plus with all that power, it's not difficult to justify the arrogance. I see more a lack of self-control.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: KS on July 12, 2014, 08:40:54 PM
The Martians are effectively a new nation; plus with all that power, it's not difficult to justify the arrogance. I see more a lack of self-control.

Just a little arrogance would have actually been nice, but the Martian characters just kind of come across as cartoonishly evil and indeed yeah there's a lack of self-control.  Honestly so far they remind me of the GHQ from Guilty Crown or your typical 70s/80s Toei Super Robot antagonists in how they just seem to absolutely delight in oppressing people and engaging in massacres because it's their role as antagonists.  I mean when I think arrogance Char Aznable had that kind of arrogant swagger in the first episodes as he was duking it out with the Federations new mobile suit and telling his rookies just how it is on the bridge, but he also did things like mourn the death of his men and ponder the possibilities of an enemy that they'd been having their way with up until that point suddenly having a weapon that were it not for his sheer skills as a pilot in baiting it into wasting it's ammo would have and in fact does posed a serious threat to his team.  These things gave him nuance as an antagonist, whereas so far the Martians do not have a strong well written central antagonist

I feel that there's just something missing here in terms of the tension of the battle and the gravitas of the characters that I would expect out of a show that is aiming to be the successor to Gundam in it's creators own words.  Like when I go back and watch those original Gundam movies I can really feel the tension in the battle on either side and like any moment a well placed shot could completely take out a named character, but here it mainly just feels like running away from big bad monster so to speak.  Really the way the Martian pilots are written so far you could have just as easily made it into our MC's running away from a Gauna or Unknown Enemy and it would have achieved just the same effect of terror->death imminent->run for your lives.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Shadowmage on July 12, 2014, 09:20:02 PM
2

For honor and glory!  Sieg heil mein Fuhrer!   The martians need a cool rallying cry to embody their ultra-jingoism.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Pebble on July 13, 2014, 12:11:12 AM
That's part of the reason why I see this overall as a possible parable for World War I, whose main lesson for history was that "arrogance" and "nationalistic pride" are two things that you can't allow to grow completely unchecked without suffering dire consequences. It's why the Martians seem so anachronistic in many ways: they either haven't learned or have forgotten one of the 20th Century's most important lessons.  In many ways, they are the ones with primitive minds, fighting with primitive tactics with technology that is superior simply because of happenstance (just like WWI).

I think that there's a potential slip-up in the background writing to be found there. If the hypergate was discovered in 72, and the first invasion happens in 99, that only gives the story 27 years to expand to Mars, colonize it, discover Aldnoah, have Mars undergo the extreme shift from being technicians and intellectuals (the first Vers Empress was a Professor, too) to deep-rootedly monarchistic, then somehow become independent of whatever Earth power controls (almost certainly the US), and then stake a claim to Aldnoah that they believe they can win. Thats a lot of stuff for so little time, and the show may have selected its dates poorly.
I'm guessing the whole Vers Empire is one woman's megalomaniacal creation; that fits well with the themes here of delusions of godhood, hubris, racism and monarchism, but bodes ill for KS's grievances.

Also, small changes in the setup make a big difference in whether the typical Gundam-route will work here; I believe it will not.
Why so? In the UC gundam timeline, the space programme stagnates until Earth undergoes severe population problems, causing the colonies to become future Australias*: entire continents for countries to shed their undesirables into. All this happens to the backdrop of rising secularization, such that humanity is the locus of moral value, and a people abandoned by humanity is, well, you get the gist of it. The same backdrop cannot be copy-pasted to this show; there isn't enough time in A.Z's world.

*(hell, there's a colony named Australia in Gundam 0080, though I'm not sure. Can someone check that for me?)
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: ShadowpulseKDH on July 13, 2014, 12:49:27 AM
1: Pretty hype first episode.  I have no clue what the hell Aldnoah is/are and I gotta say thank god for subs or else I would have no idea why the ****ING MOON HAD A CHUNK OUT OF IT!!!

2: I have a distinct dislike for enemies that are basically god-tier.  It conveys a good sense of hopelessness whenever they're around, as well as a great feeling of success when one is taken down.  Still pisses me off though, especially when the enemy is so OP that it's basically death incarnate.
2

For honor and glory!  Sieg heil mein Fuhrer!   The martians need a cool rallying cry to embody their ultra-jingoism.

How about "Heil Dessler" since the Ver's empire is goose-stepping almost side-by-side with the Garmilan's from Space Battleship Yamato 2199
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Redgrave on July 13, 2014, 03:30:00 AM
2

For honor and glory!  Sieg heil mein Fuhrer!   The martians need a cool rallying cry to embody their ultra-jingoism.

Sieg Kaiser Reinhard! Oh wait wrong show. Does the Martians even have a charismatic leader? I mean Urobuchi can write an awesome charismatic character(Broshkander!) and i'm waiting for someone like that in this space opera show.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Black Liliana on July 13, 2014, 11:54:56 AM
2.

So the Vers Empire's plan was to actually assassinate the princess and not just fake an assassination? If so, then wouldn't there be some pro-war Vers guys sent to accompany her that will report the failed assassination to the higher ups? Because those officials don't seem to have any idea that the one assassinated was a double. I wonder if something else is up here.

I'm kinda disliking how Nao is being WAY too indifferent about how things are going here. He's probably being set up for some character development here though, so I'll keep my hopes up. But right now, I'm having a hard time thinking about how they could provide a satisfying explanation for Nao's behavior.

Also, while the soundtrack was decent overall, I'm not really a fan of Sawano's vocal tracks. Animation was definitely top tier though. And those Vers mecha shields were pretty neat.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Pebble on July 14, 2014, 08:57:40 AM
Anyway maybe it'll be like Gundam AGE where the Martians feel they were abandoned by Earth somehow in their far flung colonies and now that they're all super bitter about it.
I don't think it'll be that way, because the hypergate and the colonization of Mars were fresh off the moon landings in '69-'72. If anything, the Martians, who should reasonably be scientists and astronauts, should feel like the chosen vanguard's of humanity's expansion into space. Think about it; if sbdy told you you were to follow in the footsteps of Neil Armstrong and Co., not matter how jaded you were, you'd feel special.

So the Vers Empire's plan was to actually assassinate the princess and not just fake an assassination? If so, then wouldn't there be some pro-war Vers guys sent to accompany her that will report the failed assassination to the higher ups? Because those officials don't seem to have any idea that the one assassinated was a double. I wonder if something else is up here.
I think your complaint can be explained by the lack of overarching structure between the Vers Clans, but you know, it is silly that absolutely nobody knows that Asseylum used a double. I really doubt that Eddelrittsuo would have been the only person accompanying Asseylum. But, well, maybe she was. The Martians, for all their technology, cannot be very populous.

2:

I think the best scene in the episode was when the old man driver starts to run out of the car, and gets hit by a random block of concrete. Its scenes like this that really give you a sense of scale, and mecha shows need them. I think the action is very solid, but it pales in comparison to Titan's because it lacks the kinds of strategic thinking and grinding, slow, momentum that Titan developed by late in the Trost arc. There isn't the sense of a collapsing plan here that there was in Titan, Gargantia Ep1, or even Code Geass R1's late stages. The action's momentum could be better backed up by the writing. Otherwise, this is really good work. Still, its funny how only one my favourite action scenes of all time is from a visual medium (Gundam UC's opening), and I think that reiterates the importance of writing your action well.

Now come to think of it, this transport container is kind of our White Base, only I personally think that the bunch of misfits we have here are more varied and better set up for naturally flowing drama. Rayet and Asseylum are the two obvious sources of friction, but we still have Marito and Nao. Nobody's going to take Marito's cynicism and Nao's nihilism sitting down, and Rayet and Asseylum are clearly going be be chased by some demons later on.
As for the villains, well, I read fantasy. I've lived through enough faceless and often cackling dark lords to appreciate when I get a good villain, and move on if I don't. Its a shame, but whatever. Its really daft that he doesn't pack ranged weapons, though.

I ADORE that ED.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: KS on July 14, 2014, 01:21:07 PM

Now come to think of it, this transport container is kind of our White Base, only I personally think that the bunch of misfits we have here are more varied and better set up for naturally flowing drama.

Really cause I kind of found the opposite, though I'll have to see some more actual natural interaction between the cast before I can judge.  I think we'll start to see that once the script is handed over from Gen Urobuchi who honestly just isn't suited at all for that sort of thing so much as people being constant dicks to each other or just kind of coming across as awkward in terms of dialogue where it's all pretty much expository and philosophical stuff.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Pebble on July 14, 2014, 01:39:48 PM
Well, with the original MSG, the conflicts that flowed from the situation aboard the White Base were Civilians-Military, EF-Zeon, and Amuro-Everything. Everyone gets into the ship before getting significant (initial) characterization. Here, we have Inaho-Everything with emotions, Civilians-military, Vers-Terrans, Rayet-Terrans, Rayet-Vers, as well as the potential romance btw Yuki and Marito. Maybe you don't find it more natural, but the situation certainly is more complicated here; there are three major parties here instead of the two from MSG.

I would argue, though, that we've gotten decent development for our characters so far, save for Rayet and the unnamed friend of Marito. Also, while Gen may not specialize in characters, Aoki is reasonably deft in that field, though he does have a distinctive style to it that he doesn't break out of much, if at all. I personally call it the "you’ll miss it the first time” school of character writing (contrast with Ping Pong), and we saw it in ep one, when Yuki tells Lt. Marito, in response to him saying that he is used to being looked down on, that she thinks he is a fine soldier – this is her telling him to snap out of the idea that nobody listens to him, or sees him as anything more than a drunk, and ****ing make something of himself, after which Marito gives a nice, long look at his bottle of booze.
In episode 2, we have Inaho mumbling "Penivia" to Yuki after getting caught being really stupid, because he has a really, really big ego and can't swallow the thought of being told off.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: TypicalIdiotFan on July 14, 2014, 11:24:14 PM
1-2:

Fascinating.  Certain things have been utterly predictable, certain other things have been obnoxiously directed, and certain other things make the science side of my brain twitch.  Thankfully, the good parts are so good they can block out my bitching.

For now.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: XRavsterX on July 16, 2014, 06:22:22 PM
1-2

So far, this series has been predictable to a tee. The characters are obnoxious and cliché, and the premise of high school students becoming better soldiers than adults always raises my hackles.

I don't see this view changing, nor do I see the series becoming any less predictable any time soon. This show is on thin ice.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: KS on July 16, 2014, 08:25:03 PM
1-2

So far, this series has been predictable to a tee. The characters are obnoxious and cliché, and the premise of high school students becoming better soldiers than adults always raises my hackles.

I don't see this view changing, nor do I see the series becoming any less predictable any time soon. This show is on thin ice.

This show needs a Bright Noa character to slap some sense into everyone and keep them honest.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Thot on July 19, 2014, 11:38:58 AM
3:

So I guess the princess and her not-yet-lover ended up on the earthlings' side.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: KS on July 19, 2014, 12:30:17 PM
3:  The dialogue in this series as well as the characters and their roles remain about as ham fisted and contrived as can be this week but it's pretty enjoyable as a guilty pleasure if you don't think to hard about some of the things to do with the technology and how it's kind of inconsistently and improbably utilized portrayed and exploited by this shows sense of tactical logic.  It's no Knights of Sidonia though let alone Gundam.  I still can't decide if I like this show or Argevollen better, both have their strengths as well as their weakness.  Both have their share of cliches, this one has the more modern mecha feel to it while that one is kind of a product of tradition (though this is to some extent too even though it desperately tries to play it off like it's not) and strictly ground based tactics.  I also have to say so far Argevollen does a job of showing either side of the conflict being competent in it's own way while this show seems to flip flop between one side of the conflict being dominant as is needed by the plot.  Once the weakness of the enemy Kataphract is explained by Inaho this week it could have not possibly gone down more easily and without much of a fight.  In fact that Trillram guy who is supposed to be a Knight literally just stands there after letting Inaho stab at him with a mecha knife and then proceed to shoot him up with a common mecha uzi weapon.  I mean he couldn't have swiped at him with those claws that seem to be his mechs only weapon for whatever reason.  It doesn't really feel like smart tactics being used to overcome an overpowering enemy if it actually turns out the enemy has such critical design weaknesses in his supposed super weapon that actually make it kind of less versatile than the Earth mecha in the long run and if it does the whole everyone is just really stupid and arrogant except apparently for the main character thing I was really hoping it wouldn't do.  Also is it me or do the fights in this show absolutely suck being all one sided and all.  I don't know it's just really hard to get all that excited for them.  God help this show it tries...perhaps a little too hard at times, but I'm not buying it as the super smart tactics beats raw power show the promo material is advertising it as.  At least that Trillram guy is done and we can hopefully get on to less ridiculous antagonists with hopefully actual weapons equipped on their mechas and not just critically flawed barrier systems.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Marid King on July 19, 2014, 12:44:01 PM
3:

Some of this technology is being used ominously. Namely, the princess has a hologram generator on her that lasts for days and can make her look like a completely different person. I note that, for the moment, they specifically invented this device so that she could reveal herself easily and move the plot. If this thing doesn't see further use, this'll be a pretty bad bit of plot convenience. I'll be watching.

I also focus on that little detail  because this episode honestly wasn't too exciting. I really doubt this show can shine via tactics and strategy, as it tried to do here. This conflict would have been more exciting is there was no shield at all, and the mechs just slugged it out.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Shadowmage on July 19, 2014, 12:45:05 PM
3

So basically arrogance is the downfall of the bowl head-kun.  How fitting. 
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: KS on July 19, 2014, 12:58:34 PM
3

So basically arrogance is the downfall of the bowl head-kun.  How fitting.

How original and convenient but yes also how typically fitting.  ::)
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Sorrow-kun on July 19, 2014, 09:33:50 PM
Ep 3

What an immensely satisfying ending to that episode.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: KS on July 19, 2014, 09:47:46 PM
Ep 3

What an immensely satisfying ending to that episode.

In what way?  I found it pretty unfilling since basically all they did was off some retarded villain who isn't even the one Slaine had a beef with and who had no particular nuance and character and not to mention a mech that made no particular logical sense in terms of design.  The downfall of this show really is the characters though.  For a show setting up to be a space opera it's just doing a piss poor job of making me give a damn about any of them or take interest in what they are doing.  The show wants desperately to hit you up with how smart it is but doesn't really take into consideration how it makes other parts of it's contract look trivial and silly.  I suppose this is what they call a cutting edge mecha show nowadays.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Pebble on July 19, 2014, 11:54:39 PM
The dialogue in this series as well as the characters and their roles remain about as ham fisted and contrived
It strikes me that the mecha genre in general doesn't have the best history of exposition. The old Gundam shows were old and had their fair share of random exposition dumping, and I hear bad things about some of ZZ's and Victory's habits. Zeta was generally clean on the exposition slate (despite what you say about the sense of timing), but it had its moments of weird characterizations, mostly regarding cyber-NTs. All these are old shows, sure, but its not like Gundam has the best expositional track-record in the 2000s and onward. SEED's exposition involves huge amounts of dodging the big issues, and I don't think any of us will claim that Gundam 00's dialogue will win any awards after hearing stuff like "I WILL BECOME A GUNDAM".
Now granted, I've yet to see a ton of mecha shows, but it dawns on me that the only mecha shows in which I was straight-up impressed with the expositional style were War in the Pocket, Unicorn and Sidonia. War in the Pocket because its story was constructed so perfectly to require no random info-spouting, Unicorn because the writing was just that good, and Sidonia because of how implicit it kept everything.

In any case, I don't find the characters as lacking as you make them out to be. Bowl-head-kun is an exception - that guy just sucked.

but it's pretty enjoyable as a guilty pleasure if you don't think to hard about some of the things to do with the technology and how it's kind of inconsistently and improbably utilized, portrayed and exploited by this shows sense of tactical logic.
A similar thing strikes me about so many mecha shows. I've listed off some of Argevollen's anachronistic idiosyncrasies in its thread, but come to think of it, there's yet to be a modern real robot show where tactical logic doesn't need to be suspended to some degree or another. Zeta Gundam robot transformations probably just make for really bad combat manoeuvres, as does the idea of using Gundams stealthily a la 08th MS Team, when you can just use tanks. Sidonia's record is quite clean, though one wonders why they need to keep giving robots legs when they aren't even really needed in space combat and just slow the robot down by adding so much mass.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Gadget on July 20, 2014, 12:42:46 AM
though one wonders why they need to keep giving robots legs when they aren't even really needed in space combat and just slow the robot down by adding so much mass.
I head that the author bought a bunch of model robots, cut, chop and glue it up, until he got  what he like. And it became the Type-27 and Type -28. Beside, robots with no legs will end up looking like Zeong or any of the mobile amour. And they don't have moe for a head. ( ;) at Pebble)

To be honest, all possible way of 'real robot' story have almost been covered. It will be difficult to have new story base on the robot itself. The classic accident pilot, has been done so many times. The superior technology terrorist has been done. A small military unit also been done. Either that the mecha is just a secondary plot. Code Geass and Knights of Sidonia uses that approach.  So the only way left is GOOD WRITTING AND DEVELOPMENT.

And I still have no idea about the MC. So is he just weird or a defect cyber Newtype? If I see a missile approaching, I'll run or duck. And cooking egg during enemy invasion? And using extra sensors was a very old method of mecha CQB. Does anyone remember Outlaw Star.

Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: KS on July 20, 2014, 12:56:23 AM
So the only way left is GOOD WRITTING AND DEVELOPMENT.

Agreed which so far this show kind of lacks.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Pebble on July 20, 2014, 02:46:01 AM
3:

So, one, I think the Nikerolas' barrier system is inspired, and is not a bad design. Its a specialist trooper, specifically a vanguard-type thats supposed to enter, break enemy formations, and then GTFO. That's way better than some shit Gundam has pulled, specifically 80% of Gundam 00 S1. Now, I think in conventional Vers military doctrine, the Nikerolas is supposed to be backed up with somewhat extensive air and artillery support, especially since you don't have to be afraid of damaging your own mech. Think about it; the Nikerolas doesn't take damage from your AOE attacks, so its role is to get in, mess shit up until the heavies can start firing, and thats it. Versatility is not its job, and I would rather have specialist mechs than the cliched "one size fits all" mechs which I've complained about elsewhere (http://www.nihonreview.com/forum/index.php?topic=2030.msg42782#msg42782) as well. So this:
Quote
critically flawed barrier systems
is a load of shit. In fact I think these barrier systems are a lot more grounded and thought-through, strengths, weaknesses and all, than most mecha, even Gundam Unicorn and its psychoframe tech.

That said, KS is right that Trillram being such a dumbass is a flaw in this show's action, as is him standing around without swiping at Inaho. As is the shot composition's weakness in detailing terrain tactics and movement over it, and the CGI that makes the mechs look plasticky. The arrogance of Vers has been built up, but even then it takes away from the action. I'm really not yet convinced about Aoki's ability to present and pace his combat.
Another question is why nobody noticed the flying probes. Well, at helicopter/propeller-plane heights they should look small enough to not be noticeable unless you're looking for them. The show, once again, presents this poorly, because of the way it composed its shots(i.e. too close to the probes and not giving you enough of a sense of vertigo/altitude), but it's not bad or contrived writing. Just visual work that could have been better thought through.

I thought the episode was cool, in a Borderlands "Y'all lets go gunslingin'" way. Weird. And cool.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: KS on July 20, 2014, 03:06:52 AM
3:

So, one, I think the Nikerolas' barrier system is inspired, and is not a bad design. Its a specialist trooper, specifically a vanguard-type thats supposed to enter, break enemy formations, and then GTFO. That's way better than some shit Gundam has pulled, specifically 80% of Gundam 00 S1. Now, I think in conventional Vers military doctrine, the Nikerolas is supposed to be backed up with somewhat extensive air and artillery support, especially since you don't have to be afraid of damaging your own mech. Think about it; the Nikerolas doesn't take damage from your AOE attacks, so its role is to get in, mess shit up until the heavies can start firing, and thats it. Versatility is not its job, and I would rather have specialist mechs than the cliched "one size fits all" mechs which I've complained about elsewhere (http://www.nihonreview.com/forum/index.php?topic=2030.msg42782#msg42782) as well. So this:
Quote
critically flawed barrier systems
is a load of shit. In fact I think these barrier systems are a lot more grounded and thought-through, strengths, weaknesses and all, than most mecha, even Gundam Unicorn and its psychoframe tech.

That said, KS is right that Trillram being such a dumbass is a flaw in this show's action, as is him standing around without swiping at Inaho. As is the shot composition's weakness in detailing terrain tactics and movement over it, and the CGI that makes the mechs look plasticky. The arrogance of Vers has been built up, but even then it takes away from the action. I'm really not yet convinced about Aoki's ability to present and pace his combat.
Another question is why nobody noticed the flying probes. Well, at helicopter/propeller-plane heights they should look small enough to not be noticeable unless you're looking for them. The show, once again, presents this poorly, because of the way it composed its shots(i.e. too close to the probes and not giving you enough of a sense of vertigo/altitude), but it's not bad or contrived writing. Just visual work that could have been better thought through.

I thought the episode was cool, in a Borderlands "Y'all lets go gunslingin'" way. Weird. And cool.

As far as I can tell there are no heavies, it just seems to be these guys and there custom robots.  There doesn't seem to be any particular role structure to Vers Empire hear and they just sort of seem to come and go as they please at the whim of the knight that pilots them.  Also I think any barrier system that renders you completely unable to see your surroundings without relying on drones is a pretty critically flawed barrier system.  Clearly as is demonstrated in this episode the drawbacks far outweigh the benefits in the long run.  It's kind of like the equivalent of the Death Star in terms of lethal design flaws as an impregnable fortress.  It just would have been nice to see some form of fight given up by the thing.

Also I wouldn't exactly consider something like the psycho-frame when talking about Gundam related technology because it's sort of a completely different idea that really doesn't seem scientifically plausible compared to most other tech in U.C.  Something like the I-Field barrier comes across as a better trade-off than the Nikerolas's barrier since there's no obvious disadvantage, it just doesn't work on solid weaponry.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Black Liliana on July 20, 2014, 04:29:11 AM
3.

Not sure if I missed something, but how the hell could they see the appearance of that mecha? If the barrier abosrbs all light hitting the mecha, then all outsiders should be able to see is a big black silhouette. Which would actually look pretty good in my opinion. Also, now that I think of it, how would the pilot communicate with the outside if no electromagnetic waves can pass through? And how does it receive the videos from the cameras? Best idea I can think of is that there is some small electromagnetic wave receiver somewhere on the surface of the mecha that isn't too vulnerable. But yeah I might be overthinking this.

That said, I guess there now is a reason why that mecha does not have any long range weapons. Mounted weapons would end up being additional weakpoints and held firearms would require them to make the hands barrierless. Not sure the pros outweigh the cons though, since that mecha is pretty slow. I'll probably just subscribe to Pebble's idea that Trillram's mecha is a specialist trooper since that makes the most sense.

Trillram being defeated was, yeah, pretty much due to arrogance. I can almost buy the idea that his body completely froze when MC was able to stab a weak point due to his extreme arrogance. Might be a bit of a stretch though.

Overall this was a pretty fun episode. Characters aren't really anything special, but they're not really boring either. Slaine is pretty cool though. Looking forward to when Cruhteo learns of the failed assassination plot.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Pebble on July 20, 2014, 04:39:13 AM
As far as I can tell there are no heavies, it just seems to be these guys and there custom robots.
There was that dude who stood on a bridge and had lasers and whatnot. If it turns out even that mech has inpregnable armor, then it will be ridiculous.

Also I think any barrier system that renders you completely unable to see your surroundings without relying on drones is a pretty critically flawed barrier system.  Clearly as is demonstrated in this episode the drawbacks far outweigh the benefits in the long run.
Its not just drones, its anything that has a view of the battlefield be they infantry planes, other mechs, anything, similar to what the US is trying with their F35. If you think about it, the principle at play is the same as having cameras on your robot; if the cameras get taken out, the robot can't see anything, so are cameras critically flawed? Not really.
Nikerolas can see even if the robot is completely wreathed in smoke; a normal mech cannot. That's not silly, it's immensely useful, if highly dependant on air superiority. The reason Nikerolas failed was not because its design was busted, but because the Martians sent it in without any air or artillery support. Its a specialist unit they used poorly because they were full of themselves. So if your complaint is that the use was stupid, you're right, but the robot itself isn't.

(Lets also not forget, as an even-if argument, that embarrassing engineering fails (http://www.pogo.org/blog/2013/02/why-the-f-35-lightning-cant-fly-in-lightning-yet.html) happen IRL, too (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/09/AR2009070903020.html).)

Not sure if I missed something, but how the hell could they see the appearance of that mecha? If the barrier abosrbs all light hitting the mecha, then all outsiders should be able to see is a big black silhouette. Which would actually look pretty good in my opinion.
Yeah, that would have looked utterly fantastic, and these guys missed a huge opportunity. This is one of those moments, like when you're watching a baseball/cricket game and somebody drops a catch that should, by all rights, have been in the bag.

Also, now that I think of it, how would the pilot communicate with the outside if no electromagnetic waves can pass through? And how does it receive the videos from the cameras? Best idea I can think of is that there is some small electromagnetic wave receiver somewhere on the surface of the mecha that isn't too vulnerable. But yeah I might be overthinking this.
There is one place where there is no barrier and EM waves can enter/exit, specifically the place Inaho stabbed it. Thats the reason he threw it into the river; to be able to locate where the spot was.
Doesn't excuse how the spot was on the back of the robot (i.e. its offensive blind spot - a place it cannot protect with its arms).
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Sorrow-kun on July 20, 2014, 04:53:40 AM
In what way?  I found it pretty unfilling since basically all they did was off some retarded villain who isn't even the one Slaine had a beef with and who had no particular nuance and character and not to mention a mech that made no particular logical sense in terms of design.  The downfall of this show really is the characters though.  For a show setting up to be a space opera it's just doing a piss poor job of making me give a damn about any of them or take interest in what they are doing.  The show wants desperately to hit you up with how smart it is but doesn't really take into consideration how it makes other parts of it's contract look trivial and silly.  I suppose this is what they call a cutting edge mecha show nowadays.
Explain your visceral reaction to the show, but before you do that, let me tell you why your opinion is WRONGTM.

Well, that's a pretty bad way to start the conversation...
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Marid King on July 20, 2014, 05:29:07 AM
Props to Black liliana for catching the light thing, wished I'd realized. That gets me wondering why it isn't sucking in all the air the way it did the water. I forgot to mention that I called this shield's interaction with lasers into question last week. Sadly, the interaction seems to be along the lines of "Heck if I know, but check out this cool trail of bread crumbs I put out last episode!".
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Pebble on July 20, 2014, 06:09:54 AM
^

Well, we've collectively managed to successfully overthink this to the point where it breaks. I don't know how we can sleep at night.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Shadowmage on July 20, 2014, 06:26:39 AM
Not sure if I missed something, but how the hell could they see the appearance of that mecha? If the barrier abosrbs all light hitting the mecha, then all outsiders should be able to see is a big black silhouette. Which would actually look pretty good in my opinion.

The mecha actually is pitch black.  The barrier somehow projects an image of the mecha on top of itself.  You can see it turn black once it starts powering down.

(http://i.imgur.com/HSsZqwu.png)
 
Quote
Trillram being defeated was, yeah, pretty much due to arrogance. I can almost buy the idea that his body completely froze when MC was able to stab a weak point due to his extreme arrogance. Might be a bit of a stretch though.

The body probably didn't freeze; it's just that the explanation dialogue didn't last as long as the show played it out.  MC came out of the mech's blind spot which allowed him to shiv the robot and shoot out the internals.  The whole process likely took like 10 seconds instead of a minute, basically, before Bowl-kun could recover from the shock of the situation.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Black Liliana on July 20, 2014, 07:23:01 AM
There is one place where there is no barrier and EM waves can enter/exit, specifically the place Inaho stabbed it. Thats the reason he threw it into the river; to be able to locate where the spot was.
Doesn't excuse how the spot was on the back of the robot (i.e. its offensive blind spot - a place it cannot protect with its arms).

Oh damn of course. I knew I was overthinking this.

Props to Black liliana for catching the light thing, wished I'd realized. That gets me wondering why it isn't sucking in all the air the way it did the water.

I never actually considered what happens to the air. This, I think, looks like a really tough physics question though, so we should probably leave it alone lest we overthink it past the point of breakage.

The mecha actually is pitch black.  The barrier somehow projects an image of the mecha on top of itself.  You can see it turn black once it starts powering down.

Yeah, the barrier projecting the appearance of the mecha seems to be a pretty good explanation. I guess they really don't want a pure black looking mecha if that's the case then.

The body probably didn't freeze; it's just that the explanation dialogue didn't last as long as the show played it out.  MC came out of the mech's blind spot which allowed him to shiv the robot and shoot out the internals.  The whole process likely took like 10 seconds instead of a minute, basically, before Bowl-kun could recover from the shock of the situation.

Yeah that's what I was trying to say: Bowl-kun being so shocked that he couldn't react to his mecha getting stabbed.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: KS on July 20, 2014, 09:43:52 AM
Props to Black liliana for catching the light thing, wished I'd realized. That gets me wondering why it isn't sucking in all the air the way it did the water. I forgot to mention that I called this shield's interaction with lasers into question last week. Sadly, the interaction seems to be along the lines of "Heck if I know, but check out this cool trail of bread crumbs I put out last episode!".

The show has a fridge logic approach to a lot of it's mechanics so far because everything so far has been orchestrated as a means to an end as opposed to the sort of attention to detail you see used in a show that is merely trying to build it's setting and cast rather than desperately trying to find every which way it can to impress you with it's ideas and how unconventional it wants you to think they are.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Marid King on July 20, 2014, 12:10:22 PM
You can't project an image on top of a black hole, which this shield basically is. They got the order backwards; the mech needs to be black first, then gain color when powered down.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: MCAL on July 21, 2014, 02:33:47 PM
3:
Trillham aside, I really liked this episode. Everything proceeded at a logical pace and while it was true Inaho figured it all out, it was still mostly a team effort.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: TypicalIdiotFan on July 22, 2014, 01:10:28 AM
What an immensely satisfying ending to that episode.

Indeed!  My science hackles got raised numerous times and they answered every single one of them before the episode ended.

Well, okay, there was still some "Hollywood" stylistic bullshit, like why the bridge didn't come crashing down after losing a large section of itself and several suspension cables knocked down by the mech.  But, meh.  Every once in a while, you just have to let rule of cool take over.  Also, that was some seriously not deep water.

But, the first thing I thought of with the supermech was to attack the feet.  There's no way that barrier covers the bottoms of the feet, otherwise it would just fall through the world.  So, I was thinking landmines, or some kind of attack from below.  They actually addressed that, and decided it wasn't the right course of action (they probably didn't have the means anyway).  While I find the deductive reasoning to be a bit convoluted for our main character (because if he was wrong, oh boy are they ****ed), once the facts were laid out, I picked on another factoid:  "if the thing blocks all radiation, how is it getting information from the air-cameras"?  Well, they answered that one, too, in a rather head slappingly simple way.  Of course the barrier wasn't completely encompassing, duh.  Once you find that, you have a weak point to attack in more ways than one.

Now, everybody bitching about the problems of the mech being visible when it absorbs all radiation and light waves, well, you got a point.  When the mech went down, we DID see it turn black before the shield went down officially, which does back up the claim that there was some kind of projection done, maybe by the shield itself, of the mech on the inside.  We have to allow for some possibility that we don't know everything, because the animators did make an attempt to show the blackness, briefly, after the mech was disabled.  It fits the explanation.

No, what was REALLY satisfying was our Terran slave taking out that asshole Compton style, yo.  He had every right in the world to blow that ****er away, and that was the first thing I said the moment the guy's back turned:  "Kill him!".  Satisfaction.  Preferred a little more moral outrage than terrified wussism, but considering he's been beat down his whole life as a third class citizen (if even), I can understand his irrational fear that what he's doing is going to have ramifications, and maybe not just for him, but any other Terran slaves amongst the Martians.

Really enjoying this show so far.

Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Marid King on July 22, 2014, 01:34:29 AM
I just hope the pseudo science is either better thought out in the future, or else avoided by the spotlight altogether. We're walking a pretty fine line as it is, and thus far all it's done is barely avoid destroying the immersion.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: KS on July 22, 2014, 10:47:37 AM
What an immensely satisfying ending to that episode.

Indeed!  My science hackles got raised numerous times and they answered every single one of them before the episode ended.

Well, okay, there was still some "Hollywood" stylistic bullshit, like why the bridge didn't come crashing down after losing a large section of itself and several suspension cables knocked down by the mech.  But, meh.  Every once in a while, you just have to let rule of cool take over.  Also, that was some seriously not deep water.

But, the first thing I thought of with the supermech was to attack the feet.  There's no way that barrier covers the bottoms of the feet, otherwise it would just fall through the world.  So, I was thinking landmines, or some kind of attack from below.  They actually addressed that, and decided it wasn't the right course of action (they probably didn't have the means anyway).  While I find the deductive reasoning to be a bit convoluted for our main character (because if he was wrong, oh boy are they ****ed), once the facts were laid out, I picked on another factoid:  "if the thing blocks all radiation, how is it getting information from the air-cameras"?  Well, they answered that one, too, in a rather head slappingly simple way.  Of course the barrier wasn't completely encompassing, duh.  Once you find that, you have a weak point to attack in more ways than one.

Now, everybody bitching about the problems of the mech being visible when it absorbs all radiation and light waves, well, you got a point.  When the mech went down, we DID see it turn black before the shield went down officially, which does back up the claim that there was some kind of projection done, maybe by the shield itself, of the mech on the inside.  We have to allow for some possibility that we don't know everything, because the animators did make an attempt to show the blackness, briefly, after the mech was disabled.  It fits the explanation.

No, what was REALLY satisfying was our Terran slave taking out that asshole Compton style, yo.  He had every right in the world to blow that ****er away, and that was the first thing I said the moment the guy's back turned:  "Kill him!".  Satisfaction.  Preferred a little more moral outrage than terrified wussism, but considering he's been beat down his whole life as a third class citizen (if even), I can understand his irrational fear that what he's doing is going to have ramifications, and maybe not just for him, but any other Terran slaves amongst the Martians.

Really enjoying this show so far.

Do you mean convenient for our hero cause yeah the actual execution of everything kind of is cause Trillram is such a lame inhuman and stupid character that it feels like he more or less jobs to the heroes in this episode as much as they succeed.  First to Inaho by taking every action possible to make sure Inaho's plan that pretty much relies on a lot of luck as it does a 3 step strategy (blind him with smoke, expose his weak point by dropping his mech into a water source, move in and attack for the win) and then to Slaine by literally blabbing his entire plan to him like nothing could possibly go wrong assuming he'll just follow orders when what he says is blatant treason and forgetting that Slaine also takes orders from higher up and is just kind of assigned to him right now by the looks of it.  It gives the feeling that had they been facing an opponent with any sort of clue, sense of caution and realization of what was happening that they'd all be dead right now.  Hell all he had to do was move into Inaho's mech and that would have been a done deal. 

It's also kind of convenient that the writing makes him such an unlikeable asshole that it's easy to just feel blunt satisfaction in seeing him killed off.  So easy in fact that it kind of dulls the satisfaction.  I'd much rather see him find a way to get even with Saazbaum who set all this chaos up in the first place and Cruhteo who caned him in the face earlier in the episode and told him to know his place than his idiot superior whose expiry date pretty much had to run out this episode for the kind of throwaway tier villainy he was.  My question is are they actually going to end up facing somebody with more of a clue in the future if they're going to keep up the spunky kids use analysis and strategy to take down boss of the week approach and how is the new scriptwriter going to approach the scenarios.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: TypicalIdiotFan on July 22, 2014, 01:15:44 PM
Do you mean convenient for our hero cause yeah the actual execution of everything kind of is cause Trillram is such a lame inhuman and stupid character that it feels like he more or less jobs to the heroes in this episode as much as they succeed.

What is everybody's problem with Trillram?  Yeah, he was an arrogant, egotistical, son of a bitch, but it fits.  He is part of the Martian army, who apparently have such a huge superiority complex over humans that they refer to themselves as people who were touched by God.  Their superior technology allows them to basically roll over the competition without any fear.  Furthermore, he was picked to be the guy to head up an assassination attempt against his own Princess, so he's also a bit of a looney to begin with.  I mean, we're seeing this out of several members of the Martian forces already.  They are bigots and cruel.  While some have displayed a better sense of intelligence than others, those are the Lords, so they're obviously in those positions for a reason.

Plus, Trillram's job is simple:  kill the witnesses.  That's what he's trying to do.  The problem is that he's given a mech that, while neigh invincible, is actually limited in its applications to close in combat.  It also isn't fast, which further hampers the effectiveness of the machine.  Overall, aside from its invulnerability, it's actually a tragically stupidly designed piece of hardware, which also belies the kind of people we're dealing with here.  They're so convinced of their superiority that none of them bothered to design a machine that would actually be tactically useful.

I swear, it is like watching the Clans vs. the Inner Sphere here.

As for blabbing the plan to Slaine, again, this is part of the Martian mentality.  What's Slaine supposed to do about it?  Tell his Lord?  Nobody would listen to him.  He's barely alive as far as they're concerned.  So fantastic is the racism the Martians have towards Terrans that they have no problems making them slaves and disposing of them whenever convenient.  Hell, they don't seem to have a problem disposing of their own people.  So, okay, Slaine goes and blabs to his Lord, what then?  He has no evidence, and the Princess is in the humans' hands, so why should his Lord listen to him.  Hell, his Lord may have been in on it anyway.  They all might have been in on it.  AND, now that Slaine knows, he's probably just as expendable as the other conspirators.  The only reason that Trillram didn't kill him right there is that he needed Slaine to fly him back to the landing base.

Besides, Slaine knew the plot had failed because he saw the Princess.  He was the one raising the issue to Trillram in the first place.  The die was already cast, what purpose did it serve Trillram, who was also understandably pissed that his invincible war machine had been defeated and he'd failed in his mission (probably facing punishment), to not say anything and lie?  The guy was all kinds of emotionally compromised.  Shit slips out.

Seriously people.  THINK ABOUT THINGS so I don't have to explain them.

Quote
My question is are they actually going to end up facing somebody with more of a clue in the future if they're going to keep up the spunky kids use analysis and strategy to take down boss of the week approach and how is the new scriptwriter going to approach the scenarios.

What's your alternative?  The Kids somehow manage to find this show's Gundam equivalent and fight on even keel with mech battles?  Yeah, we haven't seen that shit six thousand times before.  I would prefer a story like this, where guile and strategy win the day over Ubermechs slugging it out with impunity.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Pebble on July 22, 2014, 01:33:27 PM
What is everybody's problem with Trillram?  Yeah, he was an arrogant, egotistical, son of a bitch, but it fits.
Yeah, it certainly fits, all it does is reduce the rush of the action. Having Trillram be combat ineffective out of arrogance is like lowering a difficulty dial; the opponent isn't going all-out, so the high of defeating it is not as intense as it could be. That's basically it.

it's actually a tragically stupidly designed piece of hardware
Oh not you, too...
See my earlier thesis on the effective tactical usage of Nilokeras.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: KS on July 22, 2014, 03:05:19 PM
Do you mean convenient for our hero cause yeah the actual execution of everything kind of is cause Trillram is such a lame inhuman and stupid character that it feels like he more or less jobs to the heroes in this episode as much as they succeed.

What is everybody's problem with Trillram?  Yeah, he was an arrogant, egotistical, son of a bitch, but it fits.  He is part of the Martian army, who apparently have such a huge superiority complex over humans that they refer to themselves as people who were touched by God.  Their superior technology allows them to basically roll over the competition without any fear.  Furthermore, he was picked to be the guy to head up an assassination attempt against his own Princess, so he's also a bit of a looney to begin with.  I mean, we're seeing this out of several members of the Martian forces already.  They are bigots and cruel.  While some have displayed a better sense of intelligence than others, those are the Lords, so they're obviously in those positions for a reason.

Still doesn't mean he has to be a total clown shoes antagonist.  Gihren Zabi also felt the same way in Mobile Suit Gundam, but he also wasn't retarded, had undeniable charisma and the fleet management, political skills and patience to see it through to the end.  In fact the only reason he was stopped is the one point where he went overboard in sacrificing his father as a pawn to take out the Federations leadership which caught the suspicion of his sister and lead to his execution for treason.  Trillram is about the laziest possible first antagonist a show that is trying to be a war drama could right.  I mean maybe my standards are high here, but Mobile Suit Gundam gave us the nuanced Char Aznable as a first antagonist who while cocky and confident was shown to be anything but a bigoted idiot who has nothing to offer but black evil tier villainy and dialogue and he also grows as a character rather than just getting killed off.

Also none of the Martians have displayed a better sense of intelligence yet that I can see, they just either haven't had much dialogue or next to Trillram have looked intelligent simply by comparison.  What have the others had to offer really?  We've seen Saazbaum who is all kinds of nervous and ready to nuke their leader on Earth's castle if he thinks he's going to catch on to them and we have Cruhteo who so far has demonstrated mid 1800's style caning of slaves and the same "Know your place human scum" one dimensional attitude that every other Martian has displayed so far.  I just hate how utterly one dimensional these antagonists are so far and expect a lot better out of this particular subset of the mecha genre.  If this were like Mazinger Z or something then fine, but it's going for the Gundam/Yamato style war epic.  I don't know maybe as time goes on we'll get introduced to more interesting Martian characters like a Dommel from Yamato or some of the resistance we saw that was opposing the Dessler regime, but something keeps me skeptical somehow.

Quote
Plus, Trillram's job is simple:  kill the witnesses.  That's what he's trying to do.  The problem is that he's given a mech that, while neigh invincible, is actually limited in its applications to close in combat.  It also isn't fast, which further hampers the effectiveness of the machine.  Overall, aside from its invulnerability, it's actually a tragically stupidly designed piece of hardware, which also belies the kind of people we're dealing with here.  They're so convinced of their superiority that none of them bothered to design a machine that would actually be tactically useful.

You mean Trillram's character in it's entirety is incredible simple.  Give the audience someone they can easily root against by default with the absolute bare minimum of effort.  I would definitely agree that the Martian mech is in fact severely hampered though, moreso than even you would mention.  Honestly I highly question the trade off between being able to use a mech in the maximum number of situations versus being able to have a barrier.  It's absolutely horrible design to the point where it astonishes me that apparently nobody on Earth has been able to find someway to take advantage of it's shortcomings even purely by accident in 15 years.  That's been the convenience and conceit of the writing for this show so far though and unless the new script writer does something to fix that....well we'll have to see, but it's just incredibly silly for a show that takes itself so deathly seriously and wants us to be in awe of how shocking, gritty, "smart" and dark it is.

Quote
I swear, it is like watching the Clans vs. the Inner Sphere here.

As for blabbing the plan to Slaine, again, this is part of the Martian mentality.  What's Slaine supposed to do about it?  Tell his Lord?  Nobody would listen to him.  He's barely alive as far as they're concerned.  So fantastic is the racism the Martians have towards Terrans that they have no problems making them slaves and disposing of them whenever convenient.  Hell, they don't seem to have a problem disposing of their own people.  So, okay, Slaine goes and blabs to his Lord, what then?  He has no evidence, and the Princess is in the humans' hands, so why should his Lord listen to him.  Hell, his Lord may have been in on it anyway.  They all might have been in on it.  AND, now that Slaine knows, he's probably just as expendable as the other conspirators.  The only reason that Trillram didn't kill him right there is that he needed Slaine to fly him back to the landing base.

Yep awfully convenient and simplistic set up there for sure.  I mean the show does decently on keeping it's inconsistencies to a minimum since other than the focus on some of the science everything else about the show is shockingly simplistic in it's conception and execution.  Typical Gen Urobuchi I suppose and therefore expected, but still pretty lame.

Also if Slaine even has half a brain (does anyone else besides our MC have one in this show?  Maybe the Princess?) he's not going to go reporting these things to his lord, he's going to realize that the Martian bigotry clauses mean he's absolutely screwed now that he's killed his superior officer and follow his princess over to the other side if he knows what's good for him.  I mean the setup is there for it to make sense and without Urobuchi and his need for subversion being a factor in the script the logic should follow I'd imagine.  Also I think the main reason Trillram didn't kill him there is he's a stupid low rent coward villain who is complete garbage outside of his mecha with his barrier.  He couldn't even do jack shit inside his mech once his barrier got taken down and literally just stood there dumbfounded as a novice took him out pretty much effortlessly.

Quote
Besides, Slaine knew the plot had failed because he saw the Princess.  He was the one raising the issue to Trillram in the first place.  The die was already cast, what purpose did it serve Trillram, who was also understandably pissed that his invincible war machine had been defeated and he'd failed in his mission (probably facing punishment), to not say anything and lie?  The guy was all kinds of emotionally compromised.  Shit slips out.

Seriously people.  THINK ABOUT THINGS so I don't have to explain them.

I am thinking about things, it's why I realize a lot of this setup is kind of contrived simplistic bullshit that so far doesn't really meet my standards for the genre as I've mentioned.  All of the shit you've mentioned is really obvious, it doesn't stop it from being contrived, convenient and a lazy setup for a show that's advertised itself as a whole new kind of robot show never before seen in the history of the genre.

Quote

What's your alternative?  The Kids somehow manage to find this show's Gundam equivalent and fight on even keel with mech battles?  Yeah, we haven't seen that shit six thousand times before.  I would prefer a story like this, where guile and strategy win the day over Ubermechs slugging it out with impunity.

Yeah I figure this show is counting on this misinformed kind of reaction out of people watching it and the typical mentality that that's what every other mecha show is like (it's not, your type just seems to think it is and the producers seem to know it too), except for this one.  So far it's banked pretty overwhelmingly on this misconception at the expense of a lot of other stuff it could be focusing on making better (characters much?  How about dialogue that isn't hamfisted and laughable for how seriously it's played off?) I might add and all I can say is I hope it's not banking on that distinction as it's sole means of appeal going forward otherwise this show is never getting out of average territory for me in terms of writing.

Also I'd rather have a story like Fang of The Sun Dougram where the cast is actually nuanced, the political situation well fleshed out in the early goings and shown to be very complex and full of grey areas on either side, characters having to make tough decisions that aren't easy or necessarily even right, but the ones they feel they have to make in order to be able to live with themselves going forward, the title mecha of the show not even appearing canonically till the 8th episode as the MC rides around in a grunt unit and it's sole advantage being able to function inside of a particular phenomenon on the planet they are on that limits radio communication, and tactics.  Hell that show even has things like characters that fight on foot and a lot of the combat is just them going up against helicopters or trying to slow the other side down and whittle their support away by using guerrilla tactics and baiting them into making military decisions that the good guys side can use against them publicity wise.  It's really great show that I've been following for a while now that makes everything about this show look absolutely childish in comparison how all the bragging it's creators have done about how gritty and intelligent is, but yeah there you go, reasons why my standards are kind of high here, particularly at this moment in time.

By comparison so far this show gives the impression it's kind of aimed at the manchild audience that thinks anything that's dark, has lots of death and "grit" per minute of screen time, and has loud grinding Sawano vocal tracks playing over it is by default amazing, epic and well written, but yeah really not particularly impressed so much as disappointed that it's not as mature as I had kind of hoped it might be when you really sit back and look at what we've seen so far.  I'm not close to dropping it or anything cause it is entertaining in that blunt simple blockbuster satisfaction kind of way, but man the sheer level of bullshit I'm seeing being talked about this show like it's so much more intelligent and clever than your average "dumb Gundam show" (seriously **** Gundam Seed Destiny and convincing everyone that all Gundam is is pretty men sitting back in pimped out mechs taking out entire armies without breaking a sweat) is getting pretty damn old pretty damn fast cause it so isn't the case at all.

What is everybody's problem with Trillram?  Yeah, he was an arrogant, egotistical, son of a bitch, but it fits.
Yeah, it certainly fits, all it does is reduce the rush of the action. Having Trillram be combat ineffective out of arrogance is like lowering a difficulty dial; the opponent isn't going all-out, so the high of defeating it is not as intense as it could be. That's basically it.

Yeah pretty simple idea to understand for sure.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: The Big Guy on July 22, 2014, 04:48:15 PM
Quote
Mobile Suit Gundam gave us the nuanced Char Aznable as a first antagonist who while cocky and confident was shown to be anything but a bigoted idiot who has nothing to offer but black evil tier villainy and dialogue and he also grows as a character rather than just getting killed off.

Actually, the first villains in Gundam were the two "nuanced" and "extremely competent" Zeon soldiers, Gene and Denim (at least they weren't named after female body parts), who disobeyed their orders on their reconnaissance mission and attacked Side 7 to make sure they got the credit for destroying the Federation's mobile suit, lost easily to the Gundam, and singlehandedly lost the war for Zeon by giving Amuro a chance to become its pilot. I mean, if that's not a good comparison to Trillham, I don't know what is.

As for the other villains, I'll freely concede that Char is more interesting than the lords introduced thus far. That being said, it's only episode 3, so I would argue it would be better to withhold judgment until a couple more episodes have passed.

Quote
Yeah I figure this show is counting on this misinformed kind of reaction out of people watching it and the typical mentality that that's what every other mecha show is like (it's not, your type just seems to think it is and the producers seem to know it too), except for this one

One, I don't think he was saying it was the only one, just that it is different from the normal trope. Second, please name some. On the top of my head, I can think of 8th MS Team (that's a stretch because of the Ez8), 0080, Macross (though there isn't much strategy involved in those fights), and probably Votoms (haven't seen it). I'm not trying to discredit your argument,but this just happens my cup of tea and if you have seen more than I have, I would love some suggestions.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Gadget on July 22, 2014, 05:05:42 PM
Trillham is just a cannon fodder character. The writer just made him arrogant and then kill him off. He is not Char and he did not wear a mask. I blame lazy writing?

 I think we are over thinking again.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: KS on July 22, 2014, 06:24:29 PM
Quote
Mobile Suit Gundam gave us the nuanced Char Aznable as a first antagonist who while cocky and confident was shown to be anything but a bigoted idiot who has nothing to offer but black evil tier villainy and dialogue and he also grows as a character rather than just getting killed off.

Actually, the first villains in Gundam were the two "nuanced" and "extremely competent" Zeon soldiers, Gene and Denim (at least they weren't named after female body parts), who disobeyed their orders on their reconnaissance mission and attacked Side 7 to make sure they got the credit for destroying the Federation's mobile suit, lost easily to the Gundam, and singlehandedly lost the war for Zeon by giving Amuro a chance to become its pilot. I mean, if that's not a good comparison to Trillham, I don't know what is.

As for the other villains, I'll freely concede that Char is more interesting than the lords introduced thus far. That being said, it's only episode 3, so I would argue it would be better to withhold judgment until a couple more episodes have passed.

Quote
Yeah I figure this show is counting on this misinformed kind of reaction out of people watching it and the typical mentality that that's what every other mecha show is like (it's not, your type just seems to think it is and the producers seem to know it too), except for this one

One, I don't think he was saying it was the only one, just that it is different from the normal trope. Second, please name some. On the top of my head, I can think of 8th MS Team (that's a stretch because of the Ez8), 0080, Macross (though there isn't much strategy involved in those fights), and probably Votoms (haven't seen it). I'm not trying to discredit your argument,but this just happens my cup of tea and if you have seen more than I have, I would love some suggestions.

Fang of The Sun Dougram
Armor Hunter Mellowlink
Most UC Gundam shows
Gasaraki
FLAG
MS IGLOO 2
Votoms
Knights of Sidonia

Those come to mind immediately off the top of my head though there are some other examples.  Also there's literally nothing special about the EZ-8.  It's just a Ground Gundam reconstructed from spare parts cause Shiro went and got his blown up.  It's probably no better than the Gouf Custom it fights at the end and the pilot sure as hell isn't up to Packard's level.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Pebble on July 23, 2014, 04:35:14 AM
On an unrelated note, I am willing to bet anything that Aldnoah is a Reaper.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: TypicalIdiotFan on July 24, 2014, 12:14:50 AM
Jesus, someone remind me not to talk to KS anymore, ever.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: KS on July 26, 2014, 01:21:57 PM
4:  I could basically just copy and paste my take from last week with only some minor tweaks and it really wouldn't make much of a difference with this weeks episode, but here goes my best effort at not doing that. 

Still the same strengths and weaknesses with everything playing out entirely like clockwork and exactly as I'd anticipate so not much in the way of surprises again as we hit the 1/3 mark of the cour.  The characters all say the obvious things they need to say in an almost astonishingly timely manner, you get not 1, not 2, but 3 oh so cool bleeting vocal tracks to go with the kind of short skirmish they had this week that you'd think was supposed to be the grand epic final battle rather than just another showcase of the shows 3DCGI mecha combat aesthetic against a new mech and asshole villain of the week the way the soundtrack was boring itself into my eardrums with the force of a dirty sledgehammer.  All of this while Inaho makes his poker faces and monotonously says a lot of exposition related strategic sounding stuff.  I don't know why he figured that switching to AP rounds was supposed to make a difference, but it's amusing how the explosive stuff does nothing, the AP rounds just sort of deflect around as the mech stands there motionless twirling it's laser sword around like a baton (ummm aim somewhere else?) and yet the force of a blunt box car just about tears the thing in half.  The show really reminds me of Metal Gear where the show takes itself ultra seriously and tries to portray this gritty atmosphere all while simulatenously having elements that are kind of nonsensical, ridiculous or mainly just irrelevant.  This show really wants to impress you with how smart it thinks it is when it comes to tactics, but it's mainly just a matter of the writers looking up some scientific stuff and trying to apply it to situations that really just operate on rule of cool principle like the Leidenfrost Effect which is mainly used in the field of cooking as a way to gauge the temperature of a surface using liquid since the dulled evaporation effect causes water droplets to skittle around a super heated surface as they fail to quickly evaporate into vapor.  The fact that it's being applied to a solid coming into contact against an energy based phenomenon in a tactical situation though...that's different since the effect relies upon continual contact between a liquid and said solid super-heated surface.  There's also things like the Knight acknowledging the use of a pincer attack like it's some unheard of strategy that he can't believe anyone would think to use in an area with lots of places to hide and sneak up on enemies without backup like a shipyard.  It's not that it doesn't work, it's just the show plays it all like it's so much more grand than it is and like everything is so monumental when it's like a 5 minute conflict so they can have a battle in the episode like most mecha anime. 

Anyway this Inaho guy would kind of be the Heero Yuy type if there was any explanation at all as to how he's able to hold his own against one of these big bad Vers Knights that had regular soldiers cowering in fear and literally getting carved up while accomplishing nothing.  Why is this guy apparently the only militarily competent person living on Earth right now.  It's not even like it's like LOGH where there's been a lot of multi-generational decay in strategy and military tactical thinking on both sides of the conflict as people have forgotten all about even trying to win the war and just settled into trying not to lose too much face, win their occasional battles and secure their promotions and glory for retirement, it's only been like a generation or two at most since the whole discovery of the hyper gate.  Also it's not like Inaho's thinking especially outside the box like a Yang Wen Li type here (god if he only had even a fraction of that characters personality) so it's just kind of strange how much everyone else is made to job to our increasingly bland perfect self-insert like hero.

I could say more but I think that about does it.  Still mainly watching this show for the entertainment factor, but it could easily be so much more enjoyable to me even still if it wasn't so full of itself and trying to have it's cake and eat it too.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: MCAL on July 26, 2014, 01:51:58 PM
4:
Another good rule of war. Use your surroundings to your advantage.

I was curious as to how they would make it so that Slaine wouldn't be able to use the knowledge that the princess is alive and it was actually quite simple. We also got why the Terrans never noticed flying cameras before. It was just something unique to Trillham's mech.

On the subject of Inaho, not seeing the big problem. Some people have natural born leadership skills and he does go to a military school. I also like how he still gets help from his two friends, which offsets his main characterness (Yeah, I know. Not a word) more. I'll take this this over a "Because he's a newtype" any time of the day.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: KS on July 26, 2014, 02:07:18 PM
4:
Another good rule of war. Use your surroundings to your advantage.

I was curious as to how they would make it so that Slaine wouldn't be able to use the knowledge that the princess is alive and it was actually quite simple. We also got why the Terrans never noticed flying cameras before. It was just something unique to Trillham's mech.

On the subject of Inaho, not seeing the big problem. Some people have natural born leadership skills and he does go to a military school. I also like how he still gets help from his two friends, which offsets his main characterness (Yeah, I know. Not a word) more. I'll take this this over a "Because he's a newtype" any time of the day.

At least it's an explanation that makes sense in it's own established context.  The show isn't going to win any brownie points from me by trying to convince me it's atypical for a mecha anime, because bottom line it really isn't, it just maintains this pretense of being smarter and more realistic so far and not like a "typical dumb mecha show with hax powers" (TM), which I guess is bound to work for some more than it will for others.  At least that's my opinion.

Also his friends are still basically just peons following his orders cause he needs more automatons in order to get the crane working and then at the end they're are all like "great job Inaho" and patting him on the back as he takes all the credit like the almost perfect wish fulfillment Gen Urobuchi life philosophy aligned character he seems to be turning out as since that guys all about the robotic emotionless, nihilistic and logical character always comes out ahead thing.   Really so far aside from having no magic and what looks like only basic level of mecha piloting abilities (still did far better than any of the actual soldiers we saw this week though which raises an eyebrow) I don't see how he's much different in his role than what people complain about with Tatsuya and Kirito in Mahouka and SAO what with the whole always having to outshine everyone around him at all times thing while what I guess is supposed to be cool sounding music plays in the background.  I mean he has about as much personality as either and it's like it's not even so much about him wanting to protect his friends or caring about anything in particular so much as he's going to fill the role of the perfect main character that never fails at anything once he actually commits to something and that's that.  No room for character growth, no real reason to care about the guy, he's just gettin' her done cause that's his role, the way Gen insists it ought to be.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Kiniest on July 26, 2014, 02:38:23 PM
I do like how KS generally uses every criticism other people make of *insert production here* as a gateway to explaining for the nth time how much he hates the production team and how x show's/genre's hype is the reason the anime industry is no more; challenging all who dare to say they liked the show to any extent.

Though I might be a hypocrite for saying that.

On another note, I think I'll refrain from posting on mecha for a while, since the genre just really isn't for me. Aldnoah.Zero's no exception to this. I mean, I can get into this show a hell of a lot more than I can Argevollen, but it seems I only understand the basic plotline in these types of shows, and it kills me to feel as if I need to rewatch them just to understand the nuances of what's going on. I imagine if I kept posting on these, I'd give the same "I don't care about the characters and it's boring as hell" kind of response. Maybe I'm just missing something.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Marid King on July 26, 2014, 04:33:21 PM
4:

My mistake, I thought the shield from last week was science, but then I saw the martian mecha blocking bullets with his laser sword, and everything became clear. The writers dream up whatever silly mecha power they want first, then slap on some random factoids after to make it sound realistic. This is incredibly pretentious, and rather wrongheaded; that kind of silliness is fun when I know to turn off my brain, but throwing in science trivia keeps it active, and then it's just stupid. Every character except the MC is falling rather flat as well, and the plot impetus from the martian invasion has now burnt out. Aldnoah is standing on the cliff's edge. At the moment, it's a pale shadow of Attack on Titan (in space). It's about to become boring fluff. 

Though I must admit that whenever that lady who sounds exactly like the one who did the main theme from Attack on Titan starts going 'I SAY AYYYYEEEE AYE, I SAY AYYYYEEE AYE' I want to stand up and cheer. I think we just found the next Rules of Nature.
 
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Shadowmage on July 26, 2014, 06:50:00 PM
4

So basically, the show has taken to the mystery genre asking the question "who did it" in regards to the false flag operation.  Everyone in the Martian army is a suspect, and it's up Slaine to discover who can be trusted and who cannot.  He also fulfilled the destiny of the promotional materials by getting the invincible purple mech. On the other side of the story, the queen has to do a bit of sleuthing herself in finding out who in her army is loyal and who wants to murder her.

Also, so long as the protagonist continues to use his trainer mech, the show is basically reverse Gundam when it comes to the giant robots.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Pebble on July 27, 2014, 11:07:04 AM
The writers dream up whatever silly mecha power they want first, then slap on some random factoids after to make it sound realistic.

But isn't that what most scifi does? Concepts come before stories; that's the only reason why any story ever would have robots, or Dennou Coil glasses, or cyborgs, or dinosaurs, or aliens, because the concepts themselves are more often than not ridiculous. Think about it, first an author thinks up an idea, like "I want to make a space opera spanning, uh, 5 star systems", or "I want to make a movie in which dinosaurs appear in the modern world" and then proceeds to collect information to develop the fictitious concepts he will use to make that possible/plausible, like warpspace, FTL travel or Mass Effect Fields. I see nothing wrong with that; it's the basis for so many incredible scifi stories. Not all scifi is hard scifi, mind you, and it doesn't have to be.

Maybe your complaint is that the show is going too far down rule-of-cool alley, such that the realism suffers, which I can understand. But to say that all scifi should be made on a research-first basis is a bit of an unreasonable order.

(Also mecha has a tendency to abuse the limits of machinery. It's almost something of a tradition. A really stupid one, but hey, robots.)
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Black Liliana on July 27, 2014, 11:35:33 AM
4.

Skimmed wiki's Leidenfrost effect, and I can't relate it at all to bullet trajectories. That said, I can buy explosive bullets exploding prematurely due to the heat, and to a certain degree, bullet trajectories changing due to the bullet melting, although those 90 degree deflections are pretty ridiculous. I just don't see where the Leidenfrost effect comes in, and this kinda hurts this show's credibility, as it seems that the show is willing to insert unrelated scientific concepts to sound smart. If someone can relate bullet trajectories to the Leidenfrost effect though, then it's all cool.

That stuff aside, I really wasn't a fan of this episode's action scenes. What was stopping Vlad from running at the enemy while blocking bullets? Actually, now that I think of it, that guy sure did a lot of standing around in the battles. Also, what happened to the pincer attack? Why didn't Calm just start shooting immediately? Considering how Vlad can only block shots from one direction, then surely a basic pincer attack would have succeeded in getting some hits. Instead, the pincer attack setup ended up being pointless.

So yeah, a pretty big stepdown from the previous episodes. The show's going to have to step up in the character department if it wants to be entertaining outside the action, which is already pretty hit-or-miss so far. The only character I'm actually interested in watching right now is Slaine.

And speaking of Slaine, his suspicion of Cruhteo possibly being part of the guys who want to kill Asseylum was a pretty good way of shutting him up for the moment.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Xyzz on July 27, 2014, 01:50:29 PM
Maybe the bullets are supposed to liquefy from the heat and then roll off the blade thingy the way water does in a hot pan... thus creating that angle?

Clearly, this is a question for the what if section on xkcd.com (https://what-if.xkcd.com/1/) :D
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Marid King on July 27, 2014, 04:32:24 PM
That could conceivably work if all of the bullets flew over the top of the blade, otherwise no.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Gadget on July 27, 2014, 10:40:13 PM
 Leidenfrost effect s for dipping bear hands into molten lead or liquid nitrogen with no burnt or frostbit damage. It will not deflect AP rounds. My day job require me to overcome  Leidenfrost  effect.

4.
The whole thing escape thing remains me of how the Archangel escape from the colony in Gundam Seed. A good looking female captain. A war veteran. Civilians refugees. And teenage mecha pilots.
 And going in close to stop a more powerful mecha is not new either. It was use in Gundam 00. It was the battle between Sergei Smirnov and Setsuna F. Seiei. And it was also use in Gundam W. It was the first battle with Zechs Merquise in a Leo and Heero Yuy in Gundam Wing.
The tactics does look interesting. But on close look, it's just a repeat of what has been done. So far, this battle is better than the  ball like mecha in episode 3.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Marid King on August 02, 2014, 01:29:19 PM
5:

I love science, and it pains me to see it used like this. Please, just say it's magic or something, instead of doing things that make no sense, and pretending that they do.

On the other hand, did the princess suck the vomit out of Slaine's mouth with her own? Holy shit. I think I understand his dedication now.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Shadowmage on August 02, 2014, 06:29:02 PM
5

Ah, for a second there I thought that the Martian overlord would see through his knights'  shenanigans and make peace with the Terrans.   But from the looks of the promotional art, it looks like his right hand man is betraying him creating a massive blind spot.

As for the main protagonist, he makes absurdly large assumptions about alien tech that probably only end up working out because he's the MC.  I originally thought the Princess would summon the Aldnoah Zero and have Inaho pilot it, but it seems that his Light Yagami levels of keikaku doori is sufficient in and of itself.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Sorrow-kun on August 02, 2014, 06:43:57 PM
Ep 5

"**** the Martians" is certainly the strong prevailing thought I have from the end of this episode.  The Emperor himself had doubts as to why the assassination of the princess doesn't add up, but instead of listening to a plausible explanation and taking a reasonable action in the context of such doubts, the Martians' collective hard-on for war wins out.  Because a bloody and meaningless invasion is more important than finding out the truth.  This is where we need some 'Murrican industrial might to make a fashionably late entrance into the war and free the shit out of these aggressors.

I love science, and it pains me to see it used like this. Please, just say it's magic or something, instead of doing things that make no sense, and pretending that they do.
Pebble has already explained why pretty much the vast majority of sci-fi does this, so I'm not sure why bringing it up again is going to have any positive impact on this discussion.  Science and sci-fi aren't exactly 100% compatible ways of thinking... hence why the latter is followed by the word "fiction".  As long as Aldnoah Zero stays mostly internally consistent, that's fine - and it has for the most part with the exception of a few minor details that barely matter in the broader context of things.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: MCAL on August 02, 2014, 08:02:32 PM
5:
Besides the fact that the Mars Emperor changed his mind way too quickly, this was another fine episode. It feels like sh*t is about to go down pretty soon and the Orbital Knights are really going to get their hands dirty.

And I'm still fine with Inaho btw.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Pebble on August 02, 2014, 11:55:49 PM
Science and sci-fi aren't exactly 100% compatible ways of thinking... hence why the latter is followed by the word "fiction".  As long as Aldnoah Zero stays mostly internally consistent, that's fine - and it has for the most part with the exception of a few minor details that barely matter in the broader context of things.

You know, a lot of people use the counter argument that "sci-fi is supposed to be different from science fantasy" to require scifi to make scientific sense. I don't buy into that, largely because I think all scifi is fantasy, all fantasy is sci-fi, that the two are in effect one genre and the differences between the two purely aesthetic, but I'd be lying if I said I saw no sense in that viewpoint.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: ShadowpulseKDH on August 03, 2014, 01:49:40 AM
5:  I am pretty surprised that I think the main character is good.  It's not that he has no character, the non-emotion that pervades him is his character
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Marid King on August 03, 2014, 11:57:45 AM
Sorry, didn't see Pebble's original response.

I don't think I explained myself very clearly. My problem isn't that the idea came before the pseudoscience, it's that actual science is used incorrectly, in place of using some made up explanation, like Mass Effect fields, or glossing over the details of how things happen, like Star Wars. For example, name-dropping the Leidenfrost effect when it has nothing to do with what's happening on-screen, or this week, when Nao explains that flash-boiled high pressure steam destroyed the mecha. The latter is particularly egregious, because I could have swallowed that scene without any explanation at all, but then they throw in this ridiculous one, and the immersion is immediately destroyed once I hear it. This bungling jolts my mind out of the action and into confusion. It's counterproductive.       

So to restate, I'm not saying that sci-fi in general is unscientific and therefore bad, I'm saying Aldnoah.Zero is a bad sci-fi because of its pretensions. This problem is getting worse as the episodes go on, and you can bet that I'll be here to bang my head on the keyboard each time they lower the bar.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Pebble on August 05, 2014, 12:53:17 PM
I dunno, but I don't see what's so egregious about this week's flash-boiled steam thing. These guys are already packing atomizing energy shield tech, I'm sure the temperatures in their plasma can hit the millions of degrees celcius (or higher). I don't know enough about this stuff to make any conclusions, but that's pretty hot, and near the water surface where the pressure isn't that much either, maybe it could even happen.
I mean, what's really (obviously) ridiculous is how the Argyre's plasma torch somehow managed to lift the ship's cannon when it's just supposed to be an amorphous stream of plasma, like a flamethrower.

5:

Anyway, the show's momentum is mostly burnt out, and I feel apathetic about it, for whatever reason; maybe I'm just burnt out from wracking my brain (to no avail) to answer the questions around how this Martian society came to be. I think the only thing that keeps me coming back is its romantic view of water and of the planet earth that you find in the cinematography, architectural design, OP and ED.

The Emperor himself had doubts as to why the assassination of the princess doesn't add up, but instead of listening to a plausible explanation and taking a reasonable action in the context of such doubts, the Martians' collective hard-on for war wins out.

But what is reasonable action in the face of such doubt? The doubt goes both ways; the emperor neither trusts the terrans nor does he believe them to be idiots. It was the idiocy apparent in the UE assassinating Asseylum that gave him pause, but to have a informant/spy disseminate the claim that Asseylum was not only alive (thus negating the Martians' Casus belli) but also was attacked by the orbital knights themselves (thus seeding conflict within the Martian military/government) is not an idiotic plan; in fact, it is quite clever, if very risky. Ironically, it is the clever plausibility of Slaine's theory that made it so difficult to wholeheartedly believe.

Does that not make sense? Because if it doesn't, the show is doing its job; the emperor is very much caught in this labyrinthine web of mistrust and doubt. If he continues the ceasefire or orders investigations, he knows he may very well be playing into the Terran's hands. If he does not, he knows jeopardizes the possibly alive princess, not to mention even more Terrans. Unfortunately for them, they're Terrans, and that means that he doesn't really give a shit.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Marid King on August 06, 2014, 12:05:04 AM
The flash boiling thing is fine. The silly part is the high-pressure bit; the only pressure here is from the weight of the water above the swords. Let's be ridiculously generous and estimate the swords are 10 meters deep before they flash boil the steam. Unless I'm very much mistaken, this means the steam is under an additional pressure of...1 atmosphere. I'm not too familiar with steam explosions, but if I understand correctly people have survived being near them. Destroying a giant mecha is probably out of the question.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Reckoner on August 06, 2014, 12:12:51 AM
Maybe of relevance to this discussion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9Gn0auLFUA#t=0

Now factor in that we're dealing with plasma.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Marid King on August 06, 2014, 08:09:54 AM
@ Reckoner, you're making exactly the same mistake the writers made.

That bottle is sealed, so pressure can build from steam trying and failing to expand. There's nothing stopping the steam from expanding in the Aldnoah scenario, except a bit of water. Thus the steam has basically no pressure. No pressure, no damage. 
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Reckoner on August 06, 2014, 09:28:54 AM
There's nothing stopping the steam from expanding in the Aldnoah scenario, except a bit of water.

I'm no science expert but if the steam is expanding too fast underwater without a way to escape, doesn't this create the same effect of sealing? It's a bit hand wavy because we can't exactly create plasma swords with that much energy output, but I think it sounds somewhat plausible.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Gadget on August 06, 2014, 10:43:12 AM

On the other hand, did the princess suck the vomit out of Slaine's mouth with her own? Holy shit. I think I understand his dedication now.

I think it's a form of Perfluorochemical, not vomit. The liquid is use in a technique is call liquid breathing. It has been use in animal experiments. And the escape pod(?) does look like and EVA entry plug. Now how the hell did Slaine get to Mars? And why?

Steam explosion is real. It causes the water in tree to burst when strike by lighting. There was a case where a lady was hit by lighting. It causes her cloths to be torn to shreds when temperature got heated up real fast. The boyfriend was suspected of rape and murder until the forensic came and investigate.

And Mars have teleportation tech?

And now the series feels like Gundam: Seed. Remarkable student takes control of a mech and saves the day. A good looking devil may care veteran. A carrier, captained by a lady. A no nonsense lady XO. Classmate got a crush. Massive jamming. Running to safety.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Marid King on August 06, 2014, 06:12:25 PM
@ Reckoner the steam does have a way to escape, upward. The only thing in it's way is the water above it, which for the third time is why I calculated the pressure from the depth of water >:-(

What you're thinking of is blowing up boilers and pressure vessels by heating the steam trapped inside. What's happening here is akin to holding the empty pressure vessel above a vat of boiling water and going, MAN THE PRESSURE IS GONNA BE INTENSE. IT'S GONNA TEAR RIGHT THROUGH THIS METAL. And then the steam wafts gently upward and gives the vessel a warm fuzzy feeling.

In this case, the steam would burst upward, not waft, but this is still very far from the mecha-busting crazy high pressure you need, because the steam isn't enclosed.

I could be woefully mistaken about everything I've said, but if I'm not, that's how it is.   
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Reckoner on August 06, 2014, 06:47:13 PM
Don't big steam explosions happen when lava enters the ocean? Or are those not powerful enough?

Maybe TIF would know better about this stuff.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Marid King on August 06, 2014, 07:03:57 PM
They do. Steam explosions are real. But they don't create high-pressure steam.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: TypicalIdiotFan on August 07, 2014, 12:32:19 AM
Quote
Don't big steam explosions happen when lava enters the ocean? Or are those not powerful enough?

I just today watched episode 5, and I chuckled when I saw the steam explosion.  Steam explosions are absolutely real, and would happen to any matter being superheated from a solid or liquid phase directly to a gas (or nearly directly as far as our perception is able to understand it).  When you stick a piece of hot metal in water, you get steam instantly.  This is because the heat / energy from the metal is being transferred from the system it started in (the metal) to the system surrounding it (air, then water).  Water only takes approximately 4.184 Joules per gram to change 1 degree Celsius, or 1 calorie.  No, not the kind you're thinking of, those are Calories (big "c") or kilocalories, as they represent 1000 calories.  To expound, a single candy bar is roughly 220 Calories, or enough potential energy to change 22,000 grams of water 1 degree Celsius or 10 grams of water 2200 degrees Celsius.  The human body uses a lot of energy daily, and needs its Calories.

Anyway, all elements and compounds that exist in nature have a specific heat, which is the amount of energy needed to change the temperature of 1 gram of something by 1 degree Celsius (the SH of water I mentioned above).  In addition, there is an energy needed to change a state of matter from one phase to another.  For freezing (going from liquid to solid) this is called a heat of fusion, and for evaporation (going from liquid to gas) there is a heat of vaporization.  In a nutshell, once you supply enough energy to heat a substance to the temperature / pressure combination of vaporization (boiling point), it wont heat up anymore until all of the substance has vaporized.  So, the heat from those plasma cabers would vaporize some water to gas, then the heat would get spread around to more water, and more water, and more water, until a shit ton of it was vaporized.  Only after that would the steam increase in heat.  In fact, if you heat gas up enough, it will itself turn into plasma, which is what we're dealing with here.

Since we have NO idea what kind of heat those plasma sabers are putting out, we really can't figure out exactly how much water would be vaporized.  However, steam is lighter than water, and lighter than air, so it wants to float up through a pathway of least resistance.  Gas, normally, fills the container that it exists in, rapidly bouncing around the container repeatedly, and will continue to do so until an opening is made for it to escape to the larger container (the world).  However, there are two effects going on during this superheating of the ocean water:

1).  The bubbles of gas are expanding into everything they can and through the pathway of least resistance to the surface.
2).  The nonvaporized water is now the container, which exerts a pressure back onto the now vacant gas filled area.

We can theorize a couple of things.  First, that the impact of the two mecha hitting the water displaced a non-significant amount of it upon entry, and secondly, that vaporization of the water from the beam sabers actually started instantaneously rather than taking a second for the mecha pilot to react stupidly (which is what we saw).  In this case, the second theory works against the idea of an steam explosion being able to work any kind of significant force back on the mecha.  If the water is being vaporized upon entry, then there isn't an EXPLOSIVE vaporization of water, but a constant one so long as the sabers are active.  With the water above the mecha being displaced, and not very thick in terms of volume relative to the rest of the ocean, the steam would have an easy route to escape up into the atmosphere.  Those volcanic eruptions you mention are a great example of this.  The molten magma enters the ocean and a jet of steam comes right back up on the same path the magma enters.

Here's a great example of a steam explosion in action (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XN8Lj7dSW44).  You'll note that it does take a second for the heat from the magma ball to effect the surrounding water, but when it does, it is rather abrupt.  However, this is a controlled experiment and there isn't a danger of a serious steam explosion, so it is kind of a let down.  Still, it gives you a visual for what would happen.  The bubbles and steam come back straight up from where the ball is.  This ball was allowed a chance to build up and transfer heat and didn't do much.

There is a reason why depth charges and torpedoes are so effective in submariner warfare.  In those cases, though, the surrounding water is supplying significant enough pressure around the explosion that occurs, that the water keeps all the explosive force contained to a relatively small area.  Thus, whatever is in that area, gets not only the force of explosion, but the reverberating forces from the container coming back at the target.  That's not what is happening here.  There simply isn't enough pressure on the rapid vaporization from the surrounding water to focus the steam into a high enough pressure jet back up against the mecha.

Now, having said that, there IS one thing we should consider.  The energy from those sabers was enough to melt steel (or at least what we think is steel, from the way it cuts through other mecha to the way it cut through the cannons on the carrier, it is a reasonable theory).  Now, if those sabers are enough to instantaneously slag steel to the point where it can cut through the metal with little to no resistance, then we must surmise that it can also heat up water, and the gas, to the point where the GAS is hot enough to possibly melt steel or become plasma itself.  THAT would have a greater impact on the mecha, the energy of the sabers essentially being transferred to water, but coming back up at it, than the idea that we had a steam explosion that created a significant enough concussive force to rupture the mecha entirely.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Marid King on August 07, 2014, 12:59:08 AM
*does a silly dance of joy*
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Reckoner on August 07, 2014, 12:37:01 PM
Dang. Getting my science lessons in here  :P.

Well it seems like the more plausible explanation for the mecha getting destroyed would be the water turning into plasma. In that case it wouldn't be instantaneous right? Then the explosion could have come from the mech itself due to the plasma rather than the concussive force of the steam. Ofc, that's not exactly what the script said in the episode so it's definitely a blunder.



Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: TypicalIdiotFan on August 07, 2014, 02:03:06 PM
Would it be instantaneous?  Again, without knowing the heat output of the sabers, that's not easily discerned.  If the steam was transformed to plasma, then it would be about the same effect on him that the sabers had on other machines; the plasma would slag his unit in seconds.  If it were hot enough, it would be like tossing a wad of paper into the sun.

But whether it would be "explosive" is another story.  Certainly a lot of bubbling and steam as the gas cooled rapidly from plasma back to gas.  There's also the quandary of his ejection.  If he was anywhere near that jet of steam coming up, he'd have been boiled alive.  There's also a possibility of damage to the ship, which may or may not be explored in the next episode.  Water is a pretty good insulator, though, so it would take a lot of energy to expand the heating beyond the little area around the mecha.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: AC on August 09, 2014, 03:35:33 AM
1~5:

Upon reading up on people's take on this show, I decided to watch it... boy, did I regret not picking Aldnoah.Zero up earlier.

Didn't really understand why I didn't pick up earlier: on paper, this show is apparently all win. We have director Aoki Ei who did Fate ZERO, which was an amazing series. A-1 is actually consistent with production values for all its past shows. The music actually blew me away, and when I looked up who is behind it, seeing Sawano Hiroyuki's name didn't really surprise me. He has had quite a good record to show his musical prowess.

Story wise, it's gripping. I thought it reminded me a little of any Gundam series: Humans versus Coordinators/Innovators/whatever. But then the plot starts to thicken, and what grips me is the politics going on within the Vers empire.

Action sequence... man, I don't even need to say anything. The action sequence can alone carry the show.

The only problem is the characters. I can't quite feel anything for them because, well, they have no character. Their interactions are interesting (I'm just waiting to see how Rayet's background will affect everything if it ever gets revealed to the people). Especially Inaho: being stoic and cerebral is one thing, but Inoha apparently isn't just that. I think he's an extreme example of an autistic. Something abnormal about not reacting expressively when a friend died in front of his eyes.

I'm definitely wanting to see the show to the end.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Marid King on August 09, 2014, 12:04:15 PM
6:

The princess' assistant is getting on my nerves. If she had to speak for herself, instead of deal with this audience-pandering little annoyance, I think she'd be a much stronger character. More mysterious, more independent, more left to the imagination.

On the other hand, I'm getting a Magneto meets Charles Xavier vibe from Slaine and Nao. They're by far the most interesting characters in the show, and it seems they're on the same wavelength, intellectually and on the battlefield. Yet their personalities and allegiances are different. I'm actually excited for this.     
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Sorrow-kun on August 09, 2014, 05:13:01 PM
Ep 6

I'm struggling to think of any nations or civilizations in fiction that are easier to hate than the Martians. They're arrogant beyond words, yet they've seemingly done nothing to deserve that arrogance. All of their power can basically be sourced to sheer luck... one of them just managed to find an incredibly advanced power source from a lost civilization, made himself emperor and asked a bunch of assholes to swear loyalty to him in exchange for a bit of that power. I hate those ****ers so much. No wonder Slaine defected (except he didn't really, because his loyalty has always been to the princess).
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: MCAL on August 09, 2014, 06:35:17 PM
6:
Absolute power corrupts absolutely. It seems we've been given our reason for the Martians arrogance, which just come down to having a "holy power" no one else has.

Of more interest is Magbaredge's revelation that she's the sister of Mariito's war buddy. I'm interested to see how that plays out and hoping it doesn't affect her judgment. Evidence so far is pointing to that it won't.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Shadowmage on August 09, 2014, 08:53:52 PM
6

So, the story is basically 1) find alien technology 2) enslave rest of humanity.  Makes perfect sense actually.

The problem that they seem to be having is their arrogance cripples their Gundam tier mechs.  Inaho seems to be taking a leaf out of Kiritsugu's book of outclassing magicians far more powerful than himself by exploiting their pride. 
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: AC on August 10, 2014, 06:27:55 AM
6:

Well, that was simple: old guy found ancient technology, entrusts some guys and decides to **** the earth because they can. No bullshit, eh. But I find it incredible that the Knights speak to those on Earth as though they are a different race... when all the difference is that they have a powerful weapon by their side.

And I don't see anything good in the Princess. A trope of a naive character who believes things will work out easily when she doesn't have a clue how grave the situation is, is something that is only undermining this show. I just hope she shoots someone, like in the OP.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Gadget on August 11, 2014, 09:23:32 AM
6
Are we down to 'weird mecha of the week'?  Shooting six rocket punch?

Come on Lt Marito, spacing out twice before battle will not make you the cool guy. Get a grip or get out.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Shadowmage on August 16, 2014, 06:07:22 PM
7

And the Earthlings got themselves a Yamato.  i wonder if Inaho is going to get the mech that's been haunting PTSD-san all this time.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: ShadowpulseKDH on August 16, 2014, 07:29:33 PM
HEIL DESSLER!!!!!!
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Sorrow-kun on August 16, 2014, 08:36:50 PM
And the Earthlings got themselves a Yamato.  i wonder if Inaho is going to get the mech that's been haunting PTSD-san all this time.
Yeah, I think that's what's going to happen.

Holy crap, Inaho is one cold mother****er. Slaine just can't stop losing at everything he does. And while what Inaho did to him was incredibly cold-hearted (not on the same level as any of the war crimes the Martians have committed though), I can't help but think he was justified. When you have a trump card like Hime-sama, you don't just give it up for nothing, least of all a Martian that you've only just met. Calculating.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Marid King on August 16, 2014, 08:46:20 PM
7:

Inaho and Slaine are going to carry this show up the mountain.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: AC on August 17, 2014, 07:57:40 AM
7:

I have to wonder if Inaho's really just cerebral or, on top of that, he's emotionless. His ingenuity has been saving his people, but to talk down Slaine without any hint of emotion suggests that he doesn't or can't give a shit about what Slaine feels.

But Inaho is right to be cerebral: Slaine is still piloting a Martian aircraft, for the record. Just wondering if now Inaho intends to take Slaine hostage.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Gadget on August 17, 2014, 12:36:59 PM
7.
The enemy of my enemy is my friend, until I got a space battleship. Major upgrade.

 Six armed Mazinger got run over like some road kill. But it was defiant, until it got shot by the Martian spy. That was so Looney Tunes. Now let's see what the Martian spy gonna do. So far, it's confirm she's no longer on the Martian side. But she did not really help the earth's forces as well.

Slaine cannot go back to the Martian. and he's not trusted by earth. So how is he going to save the princess. So far, the two boys never meet. Inaho is known as 'orange'. Now what is Slaine going to do.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: MCAL on August 18, 2014, 04:45:40 PM
7:
I didn't have much of a problem with the ending. Inaho and Slaine are not going to just show each other their intentions. A misunderstanding it was, but one that made perfect sense given the circumstances. And yes Slaine shot first.

Excellent episode by the way. The battle had my attention throughout.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Shadowmage on August 23, 2014, 11:28:23 AM
8

Ah, my estimations were off.  it seems that Yamato needs the Aldnoah engine.

As for Slaine, it seems that he's taking the suffering route a F/Z's Matou Kariya.  I wonder if he'll get his vengeance when he gets his own mech or if he'll just be a perpetually tragic character.

Also, now that the Martians have started backstabbing each other, I wonder what the repercussions will be.  I mean, their communication skills can't be so bad that they don't notice... right?  (3 destroyed mechs may say otherwise)   
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Sorrow-kun on August 23, 2014, 12:35:00 PM
As for Slaine, it seems that he's taking the suffering route a F/Z's Matou Kariya.  I wonder if he'll get his vengeance when he gets his own mech or if he'll just be a perpetually tragic character.
Slaine experiencing any form of good luck? I think you miss the point of an Urobuchi anime.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: MCAL on August 23, 2014, 05:52:18 PM
8:
To be Slaine is suffering. And to suffer is to be an Urobuchi character. Congratulations Slain. You are an Urobuchi character.

You know, I'm getting more and more curious what the second cour is going to follow.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: AC on August 25, 2014, 02:11:24 AM
8:

I find the whole light-hearted moments frilly. I was actually left wanting to see only the tense moments and backstabbing drama instead of kids doing small talk.

Count Cruhteo couldn't have died that easily, right? Seems premature although apparently obvious.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: ShadowpulseKDH on August 25, 2014, 05:15:24 PM
I fully expect Cruhteo to be dead so as to just show the power of Saazbaum's Kataphrakt, which looks like a damn demon from the depths of Tartarus.  This whole backstabbing conspiracy business will probably result in a split Empire, but since Saazbaum can basically tell the emperor what is true and what is not, I am not completely sure anything will really change.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: TypicalIdiotFan on August 29, 2014, 09:36:24 AM
8:

Catching up on shit, and finally got around to this one.  Wish I'd done it earlier.  That last five ****ing minutes, man.  I was like "Oh shit yeah, civil war time!" then "Oh shit, nevermind!"

I cannot imagine that the other Orbital Knights are going to believe that the humans somehow pulled this off against one of their invasion castles.  I guess that depends on the flying fortress, though.  Since nobody on the Martian side yet knows the humans have such a thing, Saazbaum can't use it as an excuse for what happened to Cruhteo.  At least, not yet.  Besides, there have to be witnesses leftover from Saazbaum's assault.  We KNOW Slaine isn't dead yet, as he still has a purpose in this show, so others probably survived, too.  Someone is going to narc that an Orbital Knight just obliterated another Orbital Knight and wonder why.  Saazbaum is pulling out all the stops to make sure that his dirty little secret is never revealed, and the hole is going to get deeper and bigger for him as time passes.

The question will be whether or not this does trigger some kind of in-fighting amongst the Knights.  Since it was blatantly stated that they exist in a feudal-ish system, one house attacking another to improve their station or to conquer another feudal lord's territory is absolutely within the realm of possibility.  This might set off some of those ambitions, and the beginning of a situation mirroring the Warring Kingdoms period.  I mean, in history, Tanegashima Island is where the Portuguese traders provided firearms to the feudal lords at the end of the Sengoku period.  We're drawing parallels already.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Shadowmage on August 30, 2014, 11:49:48 AM
9

Well, it seems that everything is messed up now. Humanity is back to their third world tech, the Martians seem to hate each other as much they hate Earthhlings and Rayet has some running to do.

I originally presumed the Martians were like Nazis in the whole "my master race" thing, but it seems that they're jerks to everyone.  Well, at least they're consistent about it.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: ShadowpulseKDH on August 30, 2014, 02:40:52 PM
9:

Goodbye Yamato! We hardly knew the  :'(

Saazbaum definitely didn't go the way i expected him.  I mean, he doesn't try to spin a story at all, he straight up tells Slaine.  Furthermore, it seems Saazbaum doesn't give a single **** and that his main goal is a complete reworking of the Vers hierarchy. 

Lastly, I don't understand why red headed girl did what she did...like the only possible reason I can think up of is that she wasn't freaking out?  What the ****? If that's the case then Inaho is going to have a damn lynch mob after him eventually.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: MCAL on August 30, 2014, 07:18:13 PM
9:
Well that happened... Sasuga Gen Urobuchi! The more I watch this show, the less idea I have of what will happen in the second season.

I must admit though, the Martian side has gotten more interesting thanks to Saazeburn. What seemed like a sense of superiority complex from the Martians (which as has been mentioned doesn't make much sense) turns out to be more of an inferiority complex. He could even end up as sympathetic, which I wouldn't have bet at first (That would have been Cruheto).
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Kiniest on August 31, 2014, 12:20:31 PM
9:

Is it just me, or was that just a slight bit forced? Our murderer honestly felt like a throwaway character up until this point. I get that the show was trying to reinforce the idea that not all Terrans will respect the princess just because she's been helpful. Despite that, I don't like how flippant the execution was regarding the players in this little tragedy.

Regardless, the plot point makes for a great directional shift. Even if it was forced, this lets the story take a risky turn into something bigger, and possibly more involving.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Sorrow-kun on August 31, 2014, 01:53:50 PM
Ep 9

Slaine: Why don't you just kill me?
Saazbaum: Your punishment must be more severe.

This episode in a nutshell: everyone has PTSD. Well, everyone but Inoha. I mean, I can kinda see what Kiniest is saying in that, it's a bit of a leap to get Rayet from PTSD to murder, but the consequences are just too delicious.

Oh and Saazbaum, maybe your country wouldn't be completely broken if it wasn't as feudal as shit. You have the technology to fix everything... you'd just rather use it for war. Which he admits, at least.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Marid King on August 31, 2014, 11:49:46 PM
8-9:

I was wavering on whether or not to keep watching this show, but a lot of things went right, though quite a few remained wrong.

For starters, the PTSD captain guy (I do not recall his name. Bad sign.) was starting to get on my nerves; I was wondering whether or not his whimpering was justified. Now that I've seen exactly what he went through, I am completely on board. That's rough, buddy.

I'm also pleased to see the focus move from the setting to the characters; there has not been nearly enough development in this area. Slaine, Cruhteo, Saazarbam (screw the names in this show) and the aforementioned...guy have all made good progress.

I am less excited for all the continuing shenanigans. Inaho forming a harem, trying on dresses, everyone fawning over the princess, and particularly her assistant; these drain the show's ability to be taken seriously. There need to be lighthearted moments, but must these consist of the most tired, overdone nonsense anime has to offer?

Maybe all of that will go away now that the princess is "dead".
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Thot on September 01, 2014, 11:10:55 PM
9:

So either the princess really is dead and Cruhteo is soon going to make a reappearance to join the Terrans, or she's just unconcious.
If the latter, that does make me wonder how things worked out when she slept, though.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: TypicalIdiotFan on September 04, 2014, 12:15:35 PM
9:

So, the episode in a nutshell:

Bad Guy wants to eventually rule the Vers empire (don't let the sob story of social disorder fool you).
Aldnoah technology only works so long as bloodline member who started it is still alive, or at least conscious.
Conclusion:  He's ****ed.
Also:  PTSD, yo.

I don't think Rayet did this simply out of a PTSD, even though her eyes seem to indicate that she was going through some shit.  I think she's just at that point of rage when dealing with loss, where she can't reconcile why her father and everybody else died for basically nothing, so in her mind, she's finishing the job to give their deaths some kind of purpose.  Naturally, she's out of her mind and comes to her senses too late.

No, I don't think our princess is dead.  Human beings pass out from lack of oxygen and pain well before they are strangled to death, and Rayet let go not long after she collapsed.  Of course, this could also set up the really tired and cliche' CPR scene, so who knows.  Considering the ATTEMPTS at scientific realism, I would doubt that they'd pull that pseudoscientific piece of junk cliche' out of the closet, but who knows.  One last crack:  somehow this shower murder scene managed to show less skin than Psycho's.

Before arguing whether or not sleeping = blackout, though, we should find out what the next episode holds.  If she really is dead only to be revived in a few minutes thanks to a timely bit of defibrillation, then that question becomes moot.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Shadowmage on September 06, 2014, 05:50:32 PM
10

And so Rayet's arc ends.  Well, until they get so low in manpower that they need to use prisoners.

Saazbaum actually sounds like the most reasonable Martian so far.  Given that we had a crazy cat lady, samurai weeb and S&M aficionado as previous high water marks, it's not saying much, but he makes a reasonable good 1st cour boss.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: AC on September 06, 2014, 08:20:39 PM
9 & 10:

Aww Urobuchi, I thought you'd really kill the princess.

It's interesting for me to have watched episodes 9 and 10 back-to-back. The running theme for the two episodes seem to be coping with loss and PTSD:

Marito's true cause of PTSD is finally revealed (seeing your comrade being burned alive and then having to killing him sucks), the doctor finally gave prescription to Magbaredge and showed her Marito's therapy (for someone who have lost her brother, she has seemed pretty aloof) and Rayet's catatonic reaction almost led to the princess' death (her situation reminded me of Flay Allstar's in Gundam SEED).

Plus, we see the flip side of the Earth-VS-Vers war. It hasn't just been about Terrans versus the Martians: Marito killed his comrade (Terran-Terran) and Rayet tried to kill the princess (Martian-Martian). War simply and turns people ugly in an ironic way.

As for the overall plot, it's developing pretty nicely. I just dislike how it was built on a silly foundation i.e. founder finds lost technology on Mars, creates his own kingdom and antagonizes Earth for something he ****ed himself with in the first place.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: ShadowpulseKDH on September 07, 2014, 12:11:53 AM
I find it incredibly ****ed up how Magbaredge's "therapy" is basically just a video of Marito weeping.

Furthermore, for an anime based on God-drives, nazi-esque martians, and a sociopathic main character, I am finding the reasoning behind the entire Vers-Terran conflict incredibly understandable.


Sauzbaum:  I must have my revenge for the death of my lover!  I shall now begin my conquest to completely destroy the moon!!!
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Marid King on September 07, 2014, 11:03:26 AM
10:

Unlike Magbaredge, I have no sympathy for Rayet. Her actions are not understandable given what happened to her; she's a plot tool designed to create some transparent drama, and basically suck Asseylum's dick some more. I have never seen a show treat one of it's own characters with such overblown reverence. 
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: KS on September 07, 2014, 12:05:43 PM
10:

Unlike Magbaredge, I have no sympathy for Rayet. Her actions are not understandable given what happened to her; she's a plot tool designed to create some transparent drama, and basically suck Asseylum's dick some more. I have never seen a show treat one of it's own characters with such overblown reverence.

I haven't said much about this show for a while since I voluntarily withdrew myself from the thread, but now that things are winding down I feel inclined to offer up something since I've been holding back for a while now.  Just to borrow from your post, I love the pretty much total dissonance between how this show handles conflict resolution based almost exclusively on generation and gender.  Lets recap the months worth of episodes or so

Inaho with Slaine:  monotone voice "You helped me win this crucial battle keeping everyone alive.  What's that do I plan to use the princess?  What if I do?  You are my enemy" *Slaine fires and misses point blank, Inaho fires once and shoots him down*  guy gets captured and tortured for an episode next week.
Inaho with Rayet:  monotone voice "You tried to kill the princess directly, we all saw it.  I don't think that we are enemies.  Don't shoot yourself...." *Judo throw time, grabs gun out of her hand*
Inaho with Darzana: "I chose to withhold this information from you because I can so deal yo"
Sauzbaum with Cruhteo: "Loyalest of the loyal!!!!!  >:(" *Immolate*
Sauzbaum with Slaine: "Hey so I know your all big on this princess chick and like super loyal to her to the point where you'd die for her, by the way I tried to kill her so hear me out a bit" *Slaine grabs butter knife and tries to stab him* "No but seriously hear me out for a bit" *holds knife away just inches from throat blood dripping down his hand*  "Okay cool thanks for listening here have a top tier mech and do whatever" *shoots handcuffs to release him*
Darzana with bridge officers: "You know why you can't get a date?"
Darzana with Marito:  "You mercy killed my brother therefore I hate you and am going to spend the entire season pettily delighting in your traumatic recollections of the event while making no efforts to discuss the situation and what happened over someone we both clearly cared about deeply.  Marito can you even get a date?" >:(
Darzana with Rayet:  "You stole my gun, tried to kill our literal power supply and then tried to kill yourself making a huge scene and delaying everyone at a crucial moment in the conflict.  It's all good, go to a private cell and cool off for a bit."
Rayet with Asseylum:  YOU'RE A MARTIAN I HATE YOU!"  "What's that you want to be friends?  WHAT HAVE I DONE?!  BETTER KILL MYSELF.  Inaho: "Oh we can't have that, you're a female teenager, we should all get along."
Rayet with Darzana: "It's not like you drafted me or I agreed to any of this or anything so back off"
Rayet with Femianne: *SNIPE*
Asseylum with Rayet:  "You tried to kill me....oh my heavens I'm so so so so sorry about everything that's happened to you, how could I have been so short sighted all this time....again".
Asseylum with adult bridge officer trying to warn her to stay off the bridge for her own safety:  "JUDO THROW! HA!"
Calm Craftman with Asseylum: "Damn those Martians sure are assholes in need of a cold hard lesson, who do they think they a....WHOA LOOK AT HOW CUTE THE PRINCESS IS, WE SHOULD ALL DO OUR BEST FOR HER SAKE!"

Basically in the Aldnoah.Zero universe things seem to function similarly to how they do in SAO but also a little like Gundam Seed Destiny (really I'm seeing more parallels with it than ever now) in terms of how conflicts must arise and resolve themselves and who must be portrayed to be most in the right by the end.  It basically looks something like this at the moment, Inaho (Kira Yamato)>>>>>>>>>>Asseylum (Lacus Clyne)>>>>Rayet (Shinn Asuka)>>>>>Teenage Female>>>Slaine(Athrun Zala)>Teenage Male>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sauzbaum(Durandal)>Adult Male=Adult Female
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Gadget on September 09, 2014, 11:18:59 AM
In due respect, Inaho IS one of the smartest guy that step into a mecha, beside Lelouch. But Lelouch suck at piloting a mecha. Inaho smartness, and his  impaired social interaction, makes me think he is autistic. Lelouch is just narcissist and has a big ego.
I'm not sure with the way Inaho character is develop, but his character just suck the whole series down. I can over look the mumbo jumbo science and the bland Gundam:Seed  like mob character. But Inaho really suck. I can't even cheer for him.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: KS on September 09, 2014, 02:44:26 PM
In due respect, Inaho IS one of the smartest guy that step into a mecha, beside Lelouch. But Lelouch suck at piloting a mecha. Inaho smartness, and his  impaired social interaction, makes me think he is autistic. Lelouch is just narcissist and has a big ego.
I'm not sure with the way Inaho character is develop, but his character just suck the whole series down. I can over look the mumbo jumbo science and the bland Gundam:Seed  like mob character. But Inaho really suck. I can't even cheer for him.

The thing is that it's kind of hard to get behind a character that doesn't seem to be particularly behind anything himself.  Having quietly sat in the background and watched the last 6 or so episodes from where I stopped commenting a couple months back I can't for the life of me explain why the character has played out as he has up to the point.  Just so flat, so uninspiring and uninteresting, not really much else too him other than the things he does and this is the main bloody character not a tertiary one.  The character is pretty much defined entirely by the actions he takes, as if you could replace him with an emotionless android and still achieve the same result in terms of where things have gone for all the impact he's had on the cast chemistry wise beyond the actions he takes.  It's like they went into the series trying to have a character like Data from Star Trek except without those little quirks and moments of introspection and interplay with the rest of the cast that make a character like Data interesting in spite of his inability to understand human tendencies like emotion and ambition.  They almost treat his :-| nature as something of a joke with the way his sister points out how :-| is his pensive face but :-| is his I'm on cloud nine face.  It's still obviously funny, but not in the way I think it was intended.

Really it just strikes me as a main character that never really got past the concept stage which is how a lot of what's played out in this show kind of feels at this point going into the mid-series climax.  Like they had a concept for a show and that's about as far as it ever got.  They definitely delivered on what the character description said about him being a character that doesn't operate based on emotion and thinks coldly and "logically" (as defined by the script IMO), I can't contest that really, but there's just nothing else beyond that to date which is a death sentence for a compelling main character as far as I'm concerned.  You have to take a main character somewhere, flesh them out and then challenge them somewhat at some point on some level that can allow you to measure them as a person and identify with them on some level otherwise be it positively or negatively otherwise what is the point.  Right now I said the measure of the character that I hold is indifference.  I'm just kind of indifferent to Inaho as a lead at this point and just kind of wait to see what exploits he'll pull off next for the sake of driving the action in whatever direction it'll take.  He'll probably do his thing in the next couple of episodes and be the man by turning things around at the crucial moment in combat, but it'll be nothing really new that adds to him as a character in anyway and the most interesting aspect will just be to see how he does it and how the show argues it with it's own brand of science, not what becomes of him and others as a result of what he does or how it serves to define anything in particular.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Marid King on September 09, 2014, 10:48:39 PM
I've met plenty of people like Inaho, some people just aren't very expressive. Doesn't mean they don't feel anything, they're just really bad at letting you know.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: KS on September 10, 2014, 12:32:46 PM
I've met plenty of people like Inaho, some people just aren't very expressive. Doesn't mean they don't feel anything, they're just really bad at letting you know.

Its true there are people that are like that but I just don't think it works for a main protagonist at all here.  To me it's the sort of trait that works best for an antagonist or supporting character.  Take Gustavo Fring in Breaking Bad, the guy basically does nothing and always where's a blank expression in a lot of scenes and it makes him seem cunning and sinister as hell.  You wonder how can Walt get at this guy and what is he actually thinking during key scenes.  I dont think however Walt or the show period works if Brian Cranston plays the character like that.

If anything its the same with Inaho, the way he's portrayed makes him feel kind of like a sinister super villain or something or at most positive a joke character.  I don't know if its intentional or not but I really don't look at him as the protagonist or anything positively here.  I'm just kind of indifferent to him at this point as the guy that does the thing with the beating the Martians where nobody else can have success on their own in 15 years thing.   I guess he's supposed to be one of those self insert placeholder types or something but in any case he's about the blandest lead character I've seen in a big budget action series for a while and his legacy looks like its going to be an example of how trying to make a lead character that is supposedly atypical for a genre might sound great on paper but isn't necessarily always a good thing in practice.

I actually kind of don't care what happens to any of the cast on either side in the climax, there's nobody interesting enough or that I'm really invested in at all to be concerned about.  I just hope its well directed and action packed which I'm sure it will be and then the staff can have a break to think long and hard on how they want to salvage the potential of this cast for its second cour which I really can only hope will be an improvement on the character front overall.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: TypicalIdiotFan on September 17, 2014, 12:40:12 AM
10:

Argh, they did the Hollywood CPR moment.  Goddamnit.  At least they used a defibrillator once, and made it realistic*.  It was everything after that I couldn't stand.  In general:

* - People are not revived by CPR.  Period.  CPR is to keep their brains from starving while waiting for actual life saving methods to come along.  In general, if someone is revived from CPR, it means their heart was probably not stopped in the first place.  In this example, they DO shock her heart at least once before she wakes up, so it IS possible that the defibrillator worked and it just took time to revive her afterward.  Still, they should have shocked her at least two or three more times in the time it took for him to revive her with chest compressions and mouth to mouth.
* - People revived after sudden cardiac arrest are generally not in any state of health necessary to sit up, let alone speak or move.  Also, considering Inaho was basically bowing her ribcage into her lungs and heart area the wrong direction, she should be in major ****ing pain.  I suppose you could argue some adrenaline pumping in her system would help, but it doesn't really excuse a lot of this scene.
* - "Hey, did you fall in the shower?"
Me:  No, she always has that tiny chain like indentation and bruising around her ****ing neck, genius.

The rest was mostly philosophical crap.  Blaming Asseylum for this is like blaming a woman for being raped; repugnant.  The evil ambitions of the Orbital Knights are apparently irrelevant in the face of a well intentioned Princess wanting to make nice-nice.  I get that Rayet's mind is pretty damned buggered right now, but that doesn't mean that Asseylum has to accept her accusations as anything other than crap.  I understand that this will motivate her to turn on her people and expose the conspiracy as much as possible, but she was already kind of there.  Didn't need a bathroom "hug" to get her juices flowing.

11:

Not much to say here, except that Slaine continues to have really terrible timing.  Also, that they took the time to mention that the Ubermech's power core was offline as an indication that Cruchteo is dead leads me to believe he's anything but, though I don't know how yet.

Also, the attack was some pretty cool shit all around.  We still haven't actually seen what the Yamato can do, other than crash (which it does well!), but that also keeps things from getting out of hand.  The humans are at a disadvantage, and Gen isn't ready to give them an edge yet.  This is good as it keeps the Orbital Knights relevant as enemies.

But someone fire the sound guy for these two episodes.  Those missile noises were just embarrassing.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Shadowmage on September 20, 2014, 10:33:06 AM
12

Wait, what!  WHAT!

The ending actually makes no sense to me.  It's basically a sequence of unintended consequences created by Slaine not knowing what he should be doing.  It certainly maximizes suffering, but I don't know how (or why) we ended up here.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Thot on September 20, 2014, 12:07:49 PM
12:

I guess Inaho will come back with an eye patch and Slaine ends up on Vers' side. And they're going to blame each other for the princess' death.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: MCAL on September 20, 2014, 08:14:19 PM
10-12:
If you told me that things would be crazier than episode 11, I would have been highly skeptical, but you would have been right and I would have been wrong.

And I don't mean to sound like a broken record, but what the heck is Season 2 going to be about?
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: TypicalIdiotFan on September 21, 2014, 01:11:30 AM
12:

The Urobutcher strikes again. Bravo.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: ImperialX on September 21, 2014, 02:00:18 AM
12:

Slaine-kun is confused.
Slaine-kun hurts everyone in confusion.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Marid King on September 21, 2014, 03:19:39 AM
12:

Nice try, Aldnoah Zero.

But I'm afraid murdering people I don't care about just isn't going to impress me.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: AC on September 21, 2014, 03:39:30 AM
Final:

Wait, what.

Slaine saves Count Saazbaum despite knowing he wants the Princess dead. Slaine then kills Inaho despite knowing that he kept the Princess in safe custody.

Being Slaine is suffering.

--

My final thoughts on Aldnoah.ZERO:

On paper, Aldnoah.ZERO seems like a series of pure win. Directed of Aoki Ei, music by Sawano Hiroyuki, and originally created by Urobuchi Gen. And sure enough, it has been one of the most talked-about series for Summer 2014.

The final product however, is a mixed bag. Visually and musically, the Aldnoah.ZERO is a feast. It's been for most parts an aesthetic masterpiece. Story and character-wise however, it left a lot to be desired. The story, as deep as it wishes to be, is built on poor premises of a planet that antagonizes Earth after its founder discovered lost technology that he kept for himself and his closest knights. As for the cast, the only talking point so far has been Inaho's cerebral and emotionless (perhaps even autistic) personality. The rest have been forgettable at best.

And then, as you can see above, there's the baffling ending which left a perplexingly bitter aftertaste.

It's a 5/10 for me. It would've been a 7 if it wasn't for the ending. I just can't understand why otherwise good shows would throw everything away with a finale that seems to be written in 5 minutes or something.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Thot on September 21, 2014, 03:57:57 AM
I just can't understand why otherwise good shows would throw everything away with a finale that seems to be written in 5 minutes or something.
The bigger the WTF, the more people will still talk about it by the time S2 comes around.
Though this particular writer may just enjoy gut-punching people.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: thanosmat on September 21, 2014, 03:59:59 AM
12:

The Urobutcher strikes again. Bravo.

He is not involved in this butcher this time.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Marid King on September 21, 2014, 05:27:26 AM
Oh right, this is the final episode.

There are exactly two episodes in this show that I would unreservedly call good. The rest wallow in mediocrity, and a big reason for that is the tendency to cram things in that don't belong. Highschool students do not belong beside military. Cutesy fawning maid girls should not be present for any reason. Real science, used incorrectly, substitutes the infinitely superior solution of making shit up. Action supplants plot-and this is to a ridiculous degree, as the entire plot was essentially outlined in a brief conversation in early episodes, and then this was followed almost to the letter. Aldnoah.Zero could have been a godlike sci-fi story if it was played straight, and took itself seriously. Instead, it's an infested nest of pandering, glorification of teenagers, and confusion. This is bundled with some good music, and decent art and CGI.

I suppose I don't regret watching this show, so it barely scrapes a 5.

 
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Black Liliana on September 21, 2014, 06:38:46 AM
12.

Holy... What the actual f***? What in the world just happened? I was half expecting Slaine to turn into Guillotine Gorilla at the end there.

Lots of stuff I didn't like in this episode (and in the show in general) but 95% of my memory of the show will probably consist of the last 5 minutes of this thing. Well, for at least the next 3 months anyway. Maybe that was the goal all along or something.

Final thoughts:

What bugged me the most about Aldnoah.Zero was its characters, particularly Inaho and Asseylum. Inaho's absolutely indifferent attitude to everything that's happening around him was something I really didn't get along with. I can understand being stoic, but when someone dies in front of you and you barely react, I will have a hard time treating you as a proper character. I have the same problem, to a lesser degree, for Asseylum's inability to feel "negative" emotions like anger and hatred. Seriously, everyone's trying to kill you. At least get even a bit pissed off at them or something.

Nothing much to say about the other members of the cast aside from that they were all unengaging because of a lack of development, except maybe for Saazbaum and Slaine, who I thought were kinda okay.

The soundtrack complemented the show pretty nicely and didn't seem like it was fighting for attention as much as some of Sawano's other stuff seem to. Animation was excellent and I really liked the CGI animation for the mecha battles, although the writing in those parts could have been better (the action sequences against Trillram were probably the best in that regard). Didn't really get too bothered with the misused science myself.

In the end I still kinda liked the show and found myself interested in what was going to happen next, mostly because they put Slaine in some interesting situations, so I'll give this a 6/10.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Kiniest on September 21, 2014, 11:51:26 AM
This may be irrelevant, but in a recent interview, Gen mentioned that he hadn't actually written the characters for this show, and thus feels no connection to them.

As for the context, the question did not hint at a distaste for the characters. It instead asked if he felt a particular connection to Aldnoah.Zero's cast.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: KS on September 21, 2014, 12:28:14 PM
12:  I don't think any vague attempt at a space opera style mecha anime has ever produced less compelling, forgettable and just plain loathsome characters as this one.  Seriously what a completely awful cast all around that never really amounted too more than names, faces and occasionally a one dimensional and exclusive role to play.  Just flat as tissue paper all around.  Really nothing to say here or reflect on cast wise and plot wise to any noteworthy degree like is almost always the case with these shows, even some of the weaker ones like Buddy Complex or Kakumeki Valvrave.  Nothing compels me to want to turn out for the second season to see what happens to these people, I don't care who lives or who dies or whatever happens cause I can tell the staff just doesn't give a real **** either.  This show is the definition of just cheap lazy mediocre B-Grade entertainment that tries to dress itself up with popular staffers and an up in your grill soundtrack, which even then I don't care about much and I used to like Sawano. 

Honestly I can't even say I found the fights all that great because there was just so little tension and they all obeyed Seed Destiny styles of rules (Never recall a point where Earth mechs didn't just stand there getting slaughtered by the Martian ones and I swear they pretty much just gave up on the whole trying to make the ugly clunky fight scenes a little more interesting by having deductive reasoning applied to overcoming the Martian gimmick weapons of the week)and the 3DCGI modelling seemed to get uglier and uglier as the show went on, missing it's goal of superseding the kind of animation I would expect in a Gundam series by a long shot CGI or traditionally animated.  If I had to pick the best of the fights though, probably the one against the female knight back when the show still held some level of promise in the script and looked like it was getting itself together a bit more.  There was also just never any doubt in my mind beyond the 4th episode that any time Inaho went up against one of the ugly robots in his mech that he was going to thoroughly humiliate them.  He even did it to Sauzbaum and his chimera mech without Hime even needing to shut the reactor down first and while using his friend as a decoy all casual like.  Clearly just the coolest there is. 

Everything in this show just has simplistic resolutions from people just casually pointing guns at and shooting people, to instant forgiveness for attempted murder (where was Rayet this whole episode anyway?) to people relating some hackneyed backstory as to why they're starting an interplanetary conflict and it just being totally accepted at face value leading to a main character having pretty much an instant reevaluation and refocusing in outlook on the situation, to the Princess just shutting down the reactor and ending the battle so that the animators never had to show anything happening beyond the usual skirmishes with Inaho even though this is supposed to be a big climatic final battle.  Most of the cast of the show even disappears partway through with no hints given as to their status and whereabouts ostensibly so that the staff can casually decide who lives or dies between seasons or change up their status and role off camera without actually having to show the development process or proper resolutions which this series has demonstrated to me time after time it absolutely hates doing.  Too much effort I suppose.

Regarding the rather anti-climatic final fight (called it!) I particularly laughed at the scene where the logical thinker basically just tosses Sauzbaum's weapon back over to him making an all smug like face he can't even see and is like "Hey bro, lets have a final duel" instead of just finishing the job which basically allows the cluster**** of a cliffhanger to swing into motion.  For Slaine an earlier scene in the episode also got a similar laugh out of me where some Martian guy rescues Slaine and he questions him on it and he says something like as long as we fight on the same side that's all that matters and I was thinking "Welp that's a good gesture and an example of somebody being reasonable minded and not overtly evil and racist on the Martian side of the equation so that's death for that guy" and not 5 seconds later he's of course shot dead from behind cause if there's one thing this show loves to beat you over the head with constantly in a way similar to how Valvrave turned out it's that the more you try to be a decent human being the more events will conspire to kill you cause that's how "serious and realistic" shows work.  Yup yup!

That cliffhanger by the way just proves to me that the writer for this show has clearly just got nothing.  Nothing going on with this characters other than just being flung around by the plot week to week into one bad situation after another with no rhyme or reason as to why things happen the way they do even within the series own context.  Everything is just there to fill time and keep hype levels in the audience up to a certain level while having to put as little effort into making what's transpiring or happening interesting or compelling beyond that.  It's all very Guilty Crown really in it's execution.

So yeah I can basically just stick around for more filling time and space with purple monkey dishwasher characters getting jerked all around in every direction while nothing ever amounts to more than the sum of it's parts or I can just cut my losses and stick to the new 2 cour mecha shows that are coming up in Fall.  I think I'll choose the latter and it's a 5/10 for mediocrity for Aldnoah.Zero for me.  I'm pretty sure the staff of this show hates me too on some level if that's at all possible, like I didn't expect it to be what they were hyping it up to be at any point, but I never expected it to hit Gundam Seed Destiny levels of making me all but hate my favorite genre for a season and kind of make a convincing argument for why so many people feel it's barely worth the time of day anymore.  :(

......Please Gundam continue to by my savior and rescue mecha anime from the abyss once again.  :-\  12 more days.....
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: SQA on September 21, 2014, 08:41:35 PM
Shorter version: It Guilty Crowned itself 1-cour earlier.   Great visuals & music, but unwinding writing into oblivion.

:)
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Reckoner on September 22, 2014, 03:52:54 PM
12:

Princess isn't dead. Inaho? Maybe, but doubt it. Maximum shock value cliffhanger, but that's about it. Unless I see bullet wounds in heads and other characters pronouncing other characters dead, I just don't believe it.

First cour thoughts:

Aldnoah Zero certainly isn't a perfect show by any stretch of the imagination, but it sure as hell has been an entertaining sort of blockbuster thriller. I wish it had more depth in characterization, particularly for Inaho, but it has been one of the more entertaining pure mecha TV shows I've seen so far since 2008. Won't rate the first cour since the show is incomplete and that wouldn't feel right. I'll definitely be tuning if for the second half.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Gadget on September 28, 2014, 12:07:12 AM
Shorter version: It Guilty Crowned itself 1-cour earlier.   Great visuals & music, but unwinding writing into oblivion.

:)
So agreed ;D

Finally dragged myself to finish. Just like what I did during Guilty Crown.

Initially, between Argevollen and Aldnoah, Aldnoah too the lead. Argevollen is a light version of Meachwarrior/Gundam  knockoff. But in the home stretch, Argevollen sprints ahead. Aldnoah is like a big event, and focus on a few key people. Argevollen is like a story on a few key people, with the big event as a backdrop. And Argevollen is more focus.

Inaho's character is blah. I rather have an all fired up red hot gutsy guy. They want to make him smart, but in the end, he is bland. Instead of cool, he's a dork I wonder does he have Savant Syndrome?

An unusual feel of the mechas is a fight between real robots and super robots. After Mazinger, they have to fight a Megazord or Voltron. And having a trainer defeating the most powerful mechs.... is like using a A4 Skyhawk defeating the Raptor or Typhoon. At least all Gundams and even Argevollen were powerful prototype.

OK, as for S2, I hope the writers know what went wrong and take corrective action. So far, I'll give a 4
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: SQA on September 28, 2014, 01:24:25 AM
Chances of them correcting themselves are very slim.  But if they do pretty much roll with a 2nd cast, it could be interesting.

But, really, Guilty Crown didn't become "Guilty Crown" until, truly, the 2nd cour.  Before that, it was just underwhelming in it's writing not matching its world building.  Then it went off the rails.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: KS on September 28, 2014, 02:18:44 AM
Chances of them correcting themselves are very slim.  But if they do pretty much roll with a 2nd cast, it could be interesting.

But, really, Guilty Crown didn't become "Guilty Crown" until, truly, the 2nd cour.  Before that, it was just underwhelming in it's writing not matching its world building.  Then it went off the rails.

I think Guilty Crown became pretty Guilty Crown in the second episode when that one loser villain guy started gleefully  executing innocent civilians.  This show isn't that bad because it never really had a focus whereas Aldnoah's focus just seemed to have been handled backward judging by some interviews that are coming out.  When you hear things like they designed a show around the concept of real vs. super robots and then built the scenario around that it's kind of no wonder the characters and plot are kind of YMMV to put it as diplomatically as possible.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Marid King on January 10, 2015, 01:22:29 PM
13:

They grew themselves even less manhood than I expected.

It was fun enough to convince me to come along, but I'm going to have to pretend everything works via magic in order to keep my sanity.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: gedata on January 10, 2015, 01:35:57 PM
13:

How in the **** did did the Terrans last  a full 19 months without Inaho? Given that their only battle strategem is to stand and shoot  and die against ridiculously broken alien technology, you'd think the Martians would have them licked in no less then a week.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Shadowmage on January 10, 2015, 11:17:34 PM
13

Slaine has become incomprehensible to me.  At the end of the last season, I thought he was a retard with some crap luck, but this season, my brain has short circuited.  Well, at least I can enjoy the mecha fight scenes.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Reckoner on January 10, 2015, 11:27:04 PM
Princess isn't dead. Inaho? Maybe, but doubt it. Maximum shock value cliffhanger, but that's about it. Unless I see bullet wounds in heads and other characters pronouncing other characters dead, I just don't believe it.

Look who is right. OK I think just about anyone could have predicted that but then why am I seeing so many raging people on the web. Why didn't I see this originally? The last seconds of the finale were stupidly done, plain and simple.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: KS on January 10, 2015, 11:35:49 PM
Princess isn't dead. Inaho? Maybe, but doubt it. Maximum shock value cliffhanger, but that's about it. Unless I see bullet wounds in heads and other characters pronouncing other characters dead, I just don't believe it.

Look who is right. OK I think just about anyone could have predicted that but then why am I seeing so many raging people on the web. Why didn't I see this originally? The last seconds of the finale were stupidly done, plain and simple.

Considering it was about one of the most predictable things that could have happened with any show that picked up after a split cour this side of Jojo being manly and gar as hell I would have to guess simply because the opportunity presented itself.  As the laws of the internet dictate he who has the loudest and most over the top voice clearly has the most interesting insights and things to say about everything.

My question is what does this do for a show years down the line when somebody randomly picks it up and is watching and they get to this point and are like "Wait what....was the point of that?"
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Kavik Ryx on January 11, 2015, 01:06:20 AM
13:

I'm a little split here. On one hand, Inaho provided the one thing keeping Aldnoah from being another generic invasion series. On the other, hearing the bored voice work of his seiyuu kind of makes me want to see him get shot again, and again.  But it's not exactly like there was anyone who could have taken up the mantle for Earth. His going semi-god-mode from the kiss is plain hack though.

It may have just been me, but did the CG modeling seem better integrated this episode?
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: AC on January 11, 2015, 02:01:45 AM
13:

So... in all the senselessness of scrambling to explain what happened at the end of episode 12, it boils down to this: blood splatter on Inaho is enough to activate the Aldnoah Drive.

Well done. *slow clap*
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: gedata on January 11, 2015, 05:18:59 PM
13:

I'm a little split here. On one hand, Inaho provided the one thing keeping Aldnoah from being another generic invasion series. On the other, hearing the bored voice work of his seiyuu kind of makes me want to see him get shot again, and again.  But it's not exactly like there was anyone who could have taken up the mantle for Earth. His going semi-god-mode from the kiss is plain hack though.

It may have just been me, but did the CG modeling seem better integrated this episode?
C'mon now, I'm sure there's plenty generic invasion series with OP mech pilots as leads. The only thing Inaho does differently with the role is the fact that he does it with zero gusto, or hell, negative gusto.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Kavik Ryx on January 12, 2015, 09:50:20 AM
13:

I'm a little split here. On one hand, Inaho provided the one thing keeping Aldnoah from being another generic invasion series. On the other, hearing the bored voice work of his seiyuu kind of makes me want to see him get shot again, and again.  But it's not exactly like there was anyone who could have taken up the mantle for Earth. His going semi-god-mode from the kiss is plain hack though.

It may have just been me, but did the CG modeling seem better integrated this episode?
C'mon now, I'm sure there's plenty generic invasion series with OP mech pilots as leads. The only thing Inaho does differently with the role is the fact that he does it with zero gusto, or hell, negative gusto.

Inaho isn't as much OP as much as the rest of humanity is just useless. Ignoring doing something truly original, the only way this season could have commenced was with his return since the intelligence of entire human race is comparable to an adding machine. I can't think of any other story where the writers forgot to write in a second or third genius character. Even Sherlock Holmes could be bested by Mycroft or Irene Adler. Of course they could have had the cajones to have the rest of the cast be forced to make up for the loss of Inaho by their own intelligence.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: KS on January 12, 2015, 02:59:39 PM
13:

I'm a little split here. On one hand, Inaho provided the one thing keeping Aldnoah from being another generic invasion series. On the other, hearing the bored voice work of his seiyuu kind of makes me want to see him get shot again, and again.  But it's not exactly like there was anyone who could have taken up the mantle for Earth. His going semi-god-mode from the kiss is plain hack though.

It may have just been me, but did the CG modeling seem better integrated this episode?
C'mon now, I'm sure there's plenty generic invasion series with OP mech pilots as leads. The only thing Inaho does differently with the role is the fact that he does it with zero gusto, or hell, negative gusto.

Inaho isn't as much OP as much as the rest of humanity is just useless. Ignoring doing something truly original, the only way this season could have commenced was with his return since the intelligence of entire human race is comparable to an adding machine. I can't think of any other story where the writers forgot to write in a second or third genius character. Even Sherlock Holmes could be bested by Mycroft or Irene Adler. Of course they could have had the cajones to have the rest of the cast be forced to make up for the loss of Inaho by their own intelligence.

Well I get the sense Slaine was supposed to be the main rival character but he just seems to still be getting pulled in random directions every couple episodes.  He reminds me a lot of Shu from Guilty Crown in that regard just flipmflopping roles and directives as the plot requires and being an overly emotional mess where as Inaho is kind of like Gai being all Mr. Perfect infallible emotionless soldier type tanking direct kill shots and coming back to life every so often because he's a main character.  Asseylum is kind of like Inori from that show in a way crossed witn Lacus too being the token eye candy and pretty much doing next to nothing for much of the shows run to date besides needing to be protected and giving the main characters macguffins every so often.  All we need is for her to unleash some beast mode and go all one man army on some baddies out of nowhere. I mean she's an MC supposedly so I'd give her a better chance one on one with a baddy on foot than I would an entire regiment of Earth mechs.

Incidentally the sneering Martian baddies continue to remind me of GHQ from Guilty Crown as well having seemingly no personality, character roll or life outside of just being as evil and dickish as possible towards the heroes.  Even Sauzbaum is still pretty half baked villain material with his cliche back story that doesn't really match his actions.

Lastly I love that the explanation for Inahos survival is the oldest cliché in the book in the magical kiss.  The effort level in this writing for it supposedly being the next big step in the mecha genre is astonishingly low and as I'm currently finishing up Argevollen its no spring prize either but the script looks like Unicorn compared to this in terms of complexity and effort level.  Truly then only thing this has going for it is the production values and even those aren't all that fantastic.  It'd help if A-1s animation staff and Ei Aoki  could figure out how to do an exciting mecha battle that doesnt just involve people not named Inaho standing around motionless while he devises some convoluted counter to the super robot of the week but it seems he's more just a genre fan and this stuff really isn't his forte nor the writers.  Like seriously the one thing I really can't wrap my head around is why the fight scenes somehow always manage to lack tension.  I don't get how you **** up having life or death battles against high powered enemies so bad but it probably starts with having an MC like Inaho who will probably continue to go through this show without breaking a sweat until the inevitable final duel with Slaine where no doubt he'll suddenly he pushed to his limit.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: AC on January 17, 2015, 10:01:29 PM
14:

Wonderful; now with a robotic eye, Inaho's becoming even more robotic.

Even more wonderful, you can activate Aldnoah simply through saliva. Nope nope, no need for all the genetic writing explained in the first season to thicken the plot by preventing non-Vers royal members from using the damn thing. All you need is spit.

Seriously, I understand how the game of the plot has changed by bringing war from Earth to outer space. However, I'm not sure if this makes things more interesting. At Earth, despite the whole science fiction at play, at least there's some form of realism because of the obedience to laws of physics pertaining to Earth. In outer space, judging from past mecha anime series, even laws of inertia doesn't apply.

Oh well, at least the mecha fights are more pleasing to watch now because of better CGI animation.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Kavik Ryx on January 17, 2015, 11:48:59 PM
Well that's one way to give Inaho some characterization, make him come off as a collossal dick. The whole gag with his eye was kind of reminiscent of what they did with Data on Star Trek, except that it doesn't work since Inaho isn't written to react to other people. More so than moving the fights, I am worried that Inaho's eye will away any tension in the fights when Inaho can calculate the parameters for a victory plan on the spot.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: KS on January 18, 2015, 12:22:01 AM
Well that's one way to give Inaho some characterization, make him come off as a collossal dick. The whole gag with his eye was kind of reminiscent of what they did with Data on Star Trek, except that it doesn't work since Inaho isn't written to react to other people. More so than moving the fights, I am worried that Inaho's eye will away any tension in the fights when Inaho can calculate the parameters for a victory plan on the spot.

The guys come off as a tremendous dick since about the time he decided to start a bitch fit with Slaine over pretty much nothing and then sinisterly talking about using the princess to meet his own goals.  Honestly the guy is the single most laughable thing about the show too and is now really starting to remind me of Gai from Guilty Crown since he's basically one of those utterly infallible leads who will never ever make the wrong call or suffer any sort of significant setback or real challenges in his arc while everyone else around him consistently does as he barely reacts.  Up until the end of the first season I could have said well at least he didn't survive a direct attack on his person that by all basic logic and reason was un-survivable (in Gai's case somehow surviving a directed tactical Ion laser strike from space that somehow wiped out half a city block around him leaving everyone in the vicinity dead except for him being relatively unscathed and non the worse for wear and then again surviving being killed at the halfway point of the season only to come back even more ridiculously invincible and powered up) but the head shot survival thing kind of qualifies.

Like honestly though Inaho is a complete failure of a main character who I THINK I knew what they were trying to go for (something like a cross between Chirico Cuvie Lite and L-Elf Karlstein) but have just completely bombed on the execution in ways I wouldn't have thought possible by making him too perfect and competent increasingly all on his own at that with almost everybody else kind of being pushed to the background as supporting cast and cheerleaders.  Even Tatsuya Shiba from Mahouka Kokou No Rettousei has his weak points or things he just cannot do as well as others and can't do seemingly everything by himself but so far Inaho has yet to show any sign of having a weakness, shortcoming, anything he doesn't apparently know in any field that he isn't an expert on, or that there's anything anyone is qualified to do that he can't do better without any experience at the drop of a hat just because.  Hell even Superman has Kryptonite so I don't know.  Also he could more or less do those things before he got the cyber eye I felt.

At this point I'm convinced he must be someone on the staffs self-insert character.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Kavik Ryx on January 18, 2015, 02:37:56 AM
At least before the eye, there was some possibility that his friends and allies were under threat of being red shirts to create tension. With it, he has basically gone Zero System, and the fight was considerably duller as a result. I had more of less forgotten that others were involved in the space battle.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: gedata on January 18, 2015, 08:20:22 AM
More so than moving the fights, I am worried that Inaho's eye will away any tension in the fights when Inaho can calculate the parameters for a victory plan on the spot.
Let's just be honest, there wasn't really any tension to begin with, the only difference is that Inaho's qualities are being played up to a more ridiculous extent.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: TypicalIdiotFan on January 18, 2015, 09:43:00 PM
Or, if I may, Inaho now actually has something tangible that the audience can latch onto as a viable excuse for his abilities.  Before, he was surviving on reading the script, with bizarro physics being played out as unbeatable until more bizarro physics are used to counter them.  Now, at least he has a computer eye.  That's at least less stupid.

I've had a cow over the physics abuse in this show, but even without concerning myself with it, I'm trying to figure out how there is wind in space.  I am aware of solar wind, but that doesn't appear to be what they're talking about.

Also, someone remind the animators that they don't have to have the mechs' jets constantly going unless they're accelerating.  You can coast in space.  It's okay.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: kam on January 18, 2015, 11:40:21 PM
The Earth's atmosphere is farther than you might think. In fact, The International Space Station (for reference) orbits in the middle of the thermosphere, which isn't even the outer-most layer of the atmosphere. I don't think it would be too far fetched to believe that there would be wind at such altitudes.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: TypicalIdiotFan on January 19, 2015, 12:03:01 AM
Now that I look it up they could be referring to planetary wind (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind#Planetary_wind), which, until today, I did not know was a real thing.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: KS on January 19, 2015, 12:00:41 PM
At least before the eye, there was some possibility that his friends and allies were under threat of being red shirts to create tension. With it, he has basically gone Zero System, and the fight was considerably duller as a result. I had more of less forgotten that others were involved in the space battle.

Yeah but the Zero System could also show the way to absolute defeat too....then again maybe Slaine in the first season is that side of the coin since it seemed like every decision he made was one that led to more misery, suffering and getting even further away from his goals.  Guy's lucky he has the same plot armor that the other MC's have at this point.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Gadget on January 20, 2015, 10:26:09 AM
Did Slaine became a Newtype? So this is a non-Gundam Zero vs NT? So now, beside the royal blood, two earth boys can activate the Aldnoah. So the rest of the Martians are dick heads?
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: gedata on January 20, 2015, 09:10:20 PM
2:

After that conversation with Inko, I'm fully convinced that Inaho has some sort of social learning disability, perhaps aspergers?
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Shadowmage on January 20, 2015, 09:11:15 PM
Oh snap, Inaho got himself the all-knowing Terminator eye.  The Martians are so screwed.

Good thing Slaine is going full Newtype.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Gadget on January 24, 2015, 12:38:10 PM
3.
What the hell happen. Slaine just screwed all the Orbital Knights. Is he fighting for the common Martian people now? Or is this the Princess dream? Personally, I wish he could shoot down the red eye terminator.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Kavik Ryx on January 24, 2015, 03:09:54 PM
Wow that dick move on Slaine's part was almost half admirable. At least for once he managed to do something decisive even if his actions lack an ethos.

For once Inaho said something not totally aggravating to hear by having the sense to consider that the chief tactitian should probably not be in the seat of a robot in combat. Brushing it off though kind of ruined that sense of self awareness. But of course his ability this time around to survive against Martian mecha goes into plot armor territories. The fight this episode was admittedly more fun to watch, but this cour continues to be underwlming with Inaho's casual shooting down of grunts.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Marid King on January 24, 2015, 03:52:48 PM
3:

Look Aldnoah, I'm trying, I really am. But when you try to sell me orbiting bullets precisely calculated to go around the earth and hit somebody at the right moment, I tear my hair out so hard my head rips off my neck. If Slaine can set that up, then there isn't such a thing as conflict anymore, because he's a physical god.   
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Shadowmage on January 24, 2015, 09:47:43 PM
3

Okay, that makes more sense.  Slaine hasn't gone full retard like I thought.  Though he has become more interesting, Char he is not.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: KS on January 24, 2015, 11:15:42 PM
3:

Look Aldnoah, I'm trying, I really am. But when you try to sell me orbiting bullets precisely calculated to go around the earth and hit somebody at the right moment, I tear my hair out so hard my head rips off my neck. If Slaine can set that up, then there isn't such a thing as conflict anymore, because he's a physical god.

Inaho will figure out some way around it that makes that feat look like a calculating a simple equation by comparison.  At this point though the show might as well just have them duel each other to decide the conflict and who gets to control Earth and then whoever wins that side is declared the custodian of the planet and that's that cause god knows nobody else ever stands a realistic chance against either of them at this point either mentally or in combat since they'll just outsmart and humiliate anyone they come into contact with minimal effort.  It'd save a lot of time, lives and possibly dignity for everyone involved.

Honestly they could have upped the tension a little by making the Martians smarter and giving Inaho more complex situations to deal with where the condition for victory is more than just defeat Aldnoah mech/knight of the week but I guess making Slaine hyper competent in part 2 is much easier to write scenarios for and I'm skeptical the primary audience for this that's going to buy the show (Fujoshi) is really all that interested in anyone besides them good ol' boys and their winning ways anyway.

Anyway that was probably the best episode of the show since about episode 9 but I'm not sure that's saying terribly much.  Any time the show seems to try to do at least something interesting with one of the over 20 members of the cast has generally been among the better episodes of this show.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Kavik Ryx on January 25, 2015, 12:53:42 AM
3:

Look Aldnoah, I'm trying, I really am. But when you try to sell me orbiting bullets precisely calculated to go around the earth and hit somebody at the right moment, I tear my hair out so hard my head rips off my neck. If Slaine can set that up, then there isn't such a thing as conflict anymore, because he's a physical god.   

Given all the BS we've been given this season, Slaine pulling off a gambit like that is the most grounded thing that has happened all season. The problem has been that Slaine has been nothing but incompetent since the moment we met him. But I suppose he went to Oz in the meantime and got a brain. And in general for Aldnoah Zero to make any sort of comeback, it needs Slaine to be able to match Inaho with more than just Newtype flashes. Someone needs to be the Moriarty to Inaho's Sherlock, and it's not like thy have many options.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: AC on January 25, 2015, 01:20:07 AM
3:

So... Slaine aims to be Suzaku Kururugi.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Aelms on January 25, 2015, 01:22:19 AM
3:

Wasn't the trap springing on the Count largely unintentional? I was reveling on how Slaine finally got the job done only by accident.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: kam on January 25, 2015, 03:18:08 AM
3:

Look Aldnoah, I'm trying, I really am. But when you try to sell me orbiting bullets precisely calculated to go around the earth and hit somebody at the right moment, I tear my hair out so hard my head rips off my neck. If Slaine can set that up, then there isn't such a thing as conflict anymore, because he's a physical god.

He still failed to kill his original target. Sauzbaum getting caught by the bullets was a accident, albeit one that benefited him.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Marid King on January 25, 2015, 01:15:05 PM
The orbiting bullet thing is a problem of odds. Unless you shoot the bullets at exactly the right speed, angle, and height, they will arrive at a different altitude then when you shot it. If your lateral angle is off, they'll arrive somewhere else. Because the journey is so long, a mistake of even a tiny fraction will result in a big divergence. You could literally spray bullets from orbit in every direction for a hour, and have none of them come back to hit you. This is a one in a million shot, and Slaine managed like 40 of them. You could imagine putting out a candle with a boomerang that you chucked around a football stadium for a similarly ridiculous feat. My science could be misinformed, but that's how I see it.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: kam on January 25, 2015, 01:54:32 PM
Well, given that they are in a world where they have mechs that can predict the future and act as mini black holes, I don't find it so far out that they'd have AIs and HUDs that could calculate bullet trajectory. It's fantastical, mind you, but still more grounded than anything else they've shown us.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Zeitgeist on January 25, 2015, 01:56:32 PM
3:

So... Slaine aims to be Suzaku Kururugi.

OMG YOU RUINED IT. I've had a post in my phone browser for like 6 days (for no reason) and you just come right out and say it.

ANYWAY

13:

So there is just another, hitherto unknown, princess? How did she escape mention during the first season? I'm just gonna pretend she isn't real. Just pretend she wasn't simply created to bridge/explain the events of the previous final episode.

And Slaine. Slaine becomes Suzaku? Sucks. Ignorant. In the way. Randomly capable pilot. Randomly receives beast mech. Liked by no one.

14:

Suzaku impressed me during that exchange with not Princess #2

15:

Were they really so limited in character design? I straight up mistook Orbital Knight #7 for Sauzbaum. I mean come on. I thought maybe limited Vers genetics but thats just inconsistent so **** you show. 

Seems they finally acknowledged that Inaho has been carrying them somethin' fierce. Acknowledged, not legitimized. 

So his new eye simply performs calculations. Inaho conceives a basic strategy and relies on those calculations for success. Same as season one. However, I simply can't buy that  they haven't advanced combat computer to measure and thereby account for basic variables...namely wind. Or, in this case, SPACE WIND.

On to the "Tharsis". Peering briefly into the future is one thing. Accurately perceiving an entire hour into the future is another. That is just absurd. Suzaku is just God. Maybe he forfeits the minutai to acheive a singular goal. Namely, the location of a few rounds 1 hour in the future, But even still, broken as sh*t.
Nice to see Suzaku enacting some sort of plan; however narcissistic/irrational/self-aggrandizing.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Marid King on January 25, 2015, 03:17:28 PM
Well, given that they are in a world where they have mechs that can predict the future and act as mini black holes, I don't find it so far out that they'd have AIs and HUDs that could calculate bullet trajectory. It's fantastical, mind you, but still more grounded than anything else they've shown us.

I don't want to go on too long about this, so I'll make this my last post on the matter.

The problem isn't figuring out what the correct angle/height/speed is. Someone with highschool physics could do a decent job of that with a pen and paper. The problem is actually shooting the bullets with those precise conditions. Like I said, a tiny error and you miss. Making the shot while floating around and orbiting is nearly impossible.

I'll give you one more example. The longest sniper kills recorded are about 2 kilometers. Slaine just made a kill from over 40 000 kilometers. 

EDIT:

OK, I love this stuff, ONE more little bit. I swear.

Let's say you've fired the bullet with perfect height, vertical angle, and lateral angle, and we'll pretend gravity is constant. The only variable is speed. Using very rough numbers, an error of one-millionth in the speed would result in a change in the arrival height of the bullet on the order of 10 meters.

BUT, while I was playing with numbers, I realized that the entire premise of this thing is impossible, and I am ashamed I didn't realize it before blabbing about all the stuff I said before.

Slaine cannot control both the height of the bullets and the time of their arrival. If you want the bullet to arrive at a certain time, they must be going at a certain speed. That speed is what will determine how far away the bullet strays from Earth before gravity stabilizes its orbit, at a certain height. Or in other words, any freely orbiting object moving at a given speed will be at a specific height. If the count is at a given height, you must fire the bullet at a specific time in order for it to hit him. You can't just note that the count will be where you are in an hour's time, and adjust the bullet's speed to match, because doing so will also change the bullet's height. I suppose it's still possible if you did some ungodly calculations to make an elliptical orbit, but by now I'm entirely sure that the writers don't know the first thing about orbits in general, so there is no way that's what they were thinking.

The bottom line is that the orbit shot is not only practically impossible to perform, but actually theoretically impossible as well, if you use a circular orbit. Slaine confirmed Jesus.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: AC on January 26, 2015, 08:40:20 AM
OMG YOU RUINED IT. I've had a post in my phone browser for like 6 days (for no reason) and you just come right out and say it.

Why sit on a punchline before someone swipes it? *YOINK*
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Kavik Ryx on January 26, 2015, 09:42:26 AM
Well, given that they are in a world where they have mechs that can predict the future and act as mini black holes, I don't find it so far out that they'd have AIs and HUDs that could calculate bullet trajectory. It's fantastical, mind you, but still more grounded than anything else they've shown us.

I don't want to go on too long about this, so I'll make this my last post on the matter.

The problem isn't figuring out what the correct angle/height/speed is. Someone with highschool physics could do a decent job of that with a pen and paper. The problem is actually shooting the bullets with those precise conditions. Like I said, a tiny error and you miss. Making the shot while floating around and orbiting is nearly impossible.

I'll give you one more example. The longest sniper kills recorded are about 2 kilometers. Slaine just made a kill from over 40 000 kilometers. 

EDIT:

OK, I love this stuff, ONE more little bit. I swear.

Let's say you've fired the bullet with perfect height, vertical angle, and lateral angle, and we'll pretend gravity is constant. The only variable is speed. Using very rough numbers, an error of one-millionth in the speed would result in a change in the arrival height of the bullet on the order of 10 meters.

BUT, while I was playing with numbers, I realized that this entire premise of this thing is impossible, and I am ashamed I didn't realize it before blabbing about all the stuff I said before.

Slaine cannot control both the height of the bullets and the time of their arrival. If you want the bullet to arrive at a certain time, they must be going at a certain speed. That speed is what will determine how far away the bullet strays from Earth before gravity stabilizes its orbit, at a certain height. Or in other words, any freely orbiting object moving at a given speed will be at a specific height. If the count is at a given height, you must fire the bullet at a specific time in order for it to hit him. You can't just note that the count will be where you are in an hour's time, and adjust the bullet's speed to match, because doing so will also change the bullet's height. I suppose it's still possible if you did some ungodly calculations to make an elliptical orbit, but by now I'm entirely sure that the writers don't know the first thing about orbits in general, so there is no way that's what they were thinking.

The bottom line is that the orbit shot is not only practically impossible to perform, but actually theoretically impossible as well, if you use a circular orbit. Slaine confirmed Jesus.

I don't want to be the guy who say, "it's just a show. No need to overthink things." But if we are going to question the realism of space battles here, what about the fact they for the most part follow the physics of areal dogfights rather than orbital mechanics? Also assuming we're in satellite orbit here, we should be expecting combat to result in Kessler Syndrome (debris cascades caused by small debris creating new debris). Given how much space junk we see in space here, Slaine's bullets were bound to rip some of it apart.

Perhaps someone has put calculations behind everything in Aldnoah Zero and I'm not paying any attention. But I get the sense the staff is more concerned with clever solutions than scientifically and mathematically accurate ones. Though I think this speaks to where we accept the dramatic illusion and where we don't. It it probably also speaks to the trouble Aldnoah Zero is having to maintain its fourth wall.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Marid King on January 26, 2015, 01:15:38 PM
This is basically the only show I freak out over with any regularity, with regards to witchcraft being passed off as science. As you say, Aldnoah has a tendency to use tricks and gambits as the solutions to fights between main characters and the villain of the week, but it bungles the science it attempts to use so badly that my immersion shatters. I made some more posts about this earlier in the thread.

The point is, this doesn't need to happen at all. Like you said, I had nothing to say when they were dogfighting. Why? Because it was just fun and action, a time to keep your brain off and enjoy the show. But these tricks are intended to activate your brain, to be a cerebral flourish. That they can be so laughably ridiculous, so ignorant, is completely counter to their purpose, and I think absolutely deserves a full lampooning and explanation.

And really, the solution is for the writers to learn a bit, something anyone who claims to be writing sci-fi should do during the process. It's been years since I learned this stuff in high school, and everything in my last post took about five minutes to work out. If you're not willing to do that much for a product that's going out on television, then you're writing a lazy, pretentious fantasy show. Which is what Aldnoah Zero is, in my eyes. 
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: TypicalIdiotFan on January 26, 2015, 11:04:47 PM
Look Aldnoah, I'm trying, I really am. But when you try to sell me orbiting bullets precisely calculated to go around the earth and hit somebody at the right moment, I tear my hair out so hard my head rips off my neck. If Slaine can set that up, then there isn't such a thing as conflict anymore, because he's a physical god.   

Actually, that's one of the most LIKELY things I've seen from Aldnoah Zero's physics abuses.  Obviously he cheated somehow and used the Tharsis' "see the future" abilities to pull it off, because there's no way to account for the possibility of random occurrences, but... sending shit on a uniform circular orbit around Earth and knowing the period of a single completed cycle?  Shit, that's easy physics there.

I kind of wish this had happened a little bit later, though.  I don't mind Slaine turning on Sauzbaum and Sauzbaum getting his, but this seemed a bit early for such a huge character death, especially the person who had been heretofore the main antagonist.  Now that he's gone, does that make Slaine the big bad or does the whole thing kind of go into limbo for a bit until someone else rears their ugly head?

Quote
But if we are going to question the realism of space battles here, what about the fact they for the most part follow the physics of areal dogfights rather than orbital mechanics?

Yeah, someone needs to remind them that "constant thrust" does not mean "constant velocity" in space.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Aeshma on January 27, 2015, 06:19:30 AM
You´re all asking too much of a saliva-powered mecha series.

That said, I´m enjoying this cour more than the last last one, if only because the Vers faction is far more entertaining to follow than the earth people.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: KS on January 31, 2015, 03:01:29 PM
16: Show of hands people who didn't see Marito showing up only to mainly be used as a plot point to show just how utterly awesome and capable Inaho is for the umpteenth time.  I think all that's left to see is whether Inaho adopts a Christ pose at the end of it all ala Onii Sama
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Shadowmage on January 31, 2015, 05:31:24 PM
16

Well, Marito came onto the scene with less fanfare than expected.  I thought he would pull Inaho out of a tight spot instead of the other way around.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: KS on January 31, 2015, 08:08:51 PM
16

Well, Marito came onto the scene with less fanfare than expected.  I thought he would pull Inaho out of a tight spot instead of the other way around.

You mean exactly the amount that's expected lol.   :P  See you're thinking about this show in terms of what you'd like to see happen or what would be a trend bucker but one of the few constants in this show is that unlike in Gundam adult characters can never do jack shit.  They are there to serve merely as foils for our handsome teenage protagonists.  There is no experience, wisdom, sacrifice or anything for the older generation to teach the younger one, rather they must consistently be taught the ways of war and the world by kids barely old enough to drive who are already better than them at everything.  Like Marito would just get in Inahos way if he seriously tried to help would be an Aldnoah Zero kind of way of looking at the situation.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: AC on January 31, 2015, 11:39:25 PM
Yeah, someone needs to remind them that "constant thrust" does not mean "constant velocity" in space.

Well, when it comes to mecha shows, 100% accuracy to physics just can't apply. To me, it's a zero-sum game where higher accuracy to physics means less FUN.

16:

Interesting to see that Marito's PTSD isn't really the case, and instead is a fight-or-flight response.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Gadget on February 01, 2015, 04:47:26 PM
Gundam adult characters can never do jack shit.  They are there to serve merely as foils for our handsome teenage protagonists. 
There is the 06 MS Team and Stardust Memories. No kids there.

Is Inaho trying to pull the blanket for his sister a sign that he still got a heart?
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: TypicalIdiotFan on February 02, 2015, 01:40:26 AM
16:

Creating localized gravity is just pseudoscientific enough to get ignored by me, mostly because I can't argue against it because we don't know how to do it yet and therefore there's nothing to argue about.  However, I'm trying to figure out what was effecting everybody's brains.  They never explained what was up with it.  Was the gravity pulling the blood or oxygen in their bodies towards the new singularity?  Were they arguing that it was creating artificial "g-forces" which was creating blackouts?

If that's the case, holy shit, NO.  That's not how those forces work.  The reason you blackout during a high "g" turn is that you've entered a uniform circular motion, where your acceleration is going one way but your momentum is going the other.  When you turn suddenly in a car, your momentum is in the OPPOSITE direction of your turn (it is actually perpendicular to the turn, but you don't notice it as such).  That conflict of momentum is what causes the blood in your body to basically vacate where it was supposed to be and go somewhere else (usually the feet).  When that happens, the oxygen in your blood is carried away from your brain, or too much of it is flowing into the brain, depending on how you're positioned relative to the turn, and you lose consciousness.  In order for this to work, they'd have to be arguing that the new localized gravity well was strong enough, regardless of distance, to create momentum towards it while your acceleration was going backwards or to the ground, which is ****ing stupid to even think about.  The localized gravity well created by the Kataphrakht was NOT overwhelming or negating the gravity of earth, as everybody was still standing on the ground.  The only things pulled up were loose fragments of dirt and dust, and the one mech's arm when he got too close (a phenomenon in and of itself that is silly, because it is more likely the whole machine would be lifted off a rather frictionless ground before a secure and fastened arm would go flying off at a key joint).  So, in general, it wasn't strong enough to do much beyond a certain radius, which is how gravity wells work.  Newton's law of gravity says that the gravitational force gets weaker the farther away you are from it.  This is why you can hang out near a black hole without it sucking you in.  Or why you can stay in orbit around Earth without it pulling you back into the atmosphere.  So if the gravity well was strong enough to pull loose dirt, but not effect their bullets until they got within a short distance of the well, it is unlikely that the gravity could accelerate their blood and oxygen through the mecha without effecting a lot of other things as well.  Even if the gravity wells were pulling blood towards them, that still keeps the blood in the brain, just moving towards the frontal lobes.  You'd lose the blood in the back of your brain, which would effect reflexes and such, but you wouldn't pass out.

TL;DR - A/Z is abusing physics, again.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: KS on February 02, 2015, 12:14:27 PM
Gundam adult characters can never do jack shit.  They are there to serve merely as foils for our handsome teenage protagonists. 
There is the 06 MS Team and Stardust Memories. No kids there.

Is Inaho trying to pull the blanket for his sister a sign that he still got a heart?

You mean the 08th MS Team?  If so there are kids (http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/Kiki_Rosita) there albeit in more of a tag along capacity than anything.  The team itself is all people over 20.  The only kid character that really appears in Stardust Memories is a cameo of 13 year old Haman (still with the same deep throaty voice from Yoshiko Sakakibara) biding her time at Axis while complaining about the harsh cold conditions.

And yeah I guess that's what this is at least trying to acknowledge.  It still doesn't do much for his character to give him a personality but it's something I guess.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: gedata on February 02, 2015, 03:24:03 PM
16

Well, Marito came onto the scene with less fanfare than expected.  I thought he would pull Inaho out of a tight spot instead of the other way around.
What was it in the past 16 episodes that made you believe anyone on the Terran side would have a crowning moment of awesome that isn't named Inaho
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Gadget on February 03, 2015, 07:58:53 AM

[/quote]

You mean the 08th MS Team? 
[/quote]
Yea, that's the one. Most Gundam MCs are just teens, like Amuro Ray, the G-boys from Gundam Wing and Setsuna and Gundam Age.

Slaine's style of attack reminds me of the Red Comet Char. It favors pricision high speed attack. The various Orbitsl Knights's got real bad ass magical mechs, but it seems that such specialize mech only limited to the Counts, not the grunts. If they mass produce these mechs, Earth's forces would have been toast, with or with out Inaho. And all earth force got is just the Yamato.  And that Eyeball zero system.

It's now reduce to enemy mech of the week, with some pseudo scientific trash talk.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Marid King on February 03, 2015, 01:32:25 PM
I just assumed the noise was something else entirely, and not gravity. In any case, a magic gravitational disk is just not worth thinking about, too little info on how it works. 
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Kavik Ryx on February 04, 2015, 01:09:26 PM
16:

Aldnoah Zero, bosons don't work like that. Any cancelation of the waves would be a minor and fleeting event. And that assumes the waves are inverted. But that doesn't really matter. What does is why would one build a machine which is likely usable in space combat and make it only effective in two dimensions of space? This isn't the Gaplant having one blind spot you can exploit if you know where it is. This is pretty obvious.

Well at least they gave Marito something to do, but I almost wish they didn't. They took his PTSD, which is A a serious issue IRL and B is only character trait, and basically turned it into the SEED. It's actually kind of demeaning, especially since they just made it a simple FFoF reaction.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: gedata on February 04, 2015, 03:32:22 PM
16:

Well at least they gave Marito something to do, but I almost wish they didn't. They took his PTSD, which is A a serious issue IRL and B is only character trait, and basically turned it into the SEED
Never saw much of Gundam SEED , but if you mean is that they turned his crippling anxiety into a plot-device then sure
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: TypicalIdiotFan on February 07, 2015, 05:23:25 PM
17:

Yay!  An episode that didn't (really) abuse physics!

I kind of pegged what Inaho had planned for the captured count, but I find it silly that he would have pulled that off without some serious inside help from above.  The Captain seemed to be knowledgeable as to what was going on, or at least suspected it, but apparently neglected to inform anybody else.  Unless Inaho's easy escape was all part of the plan, because boy did he just drive off the base in a Humvee with an obviously recognizable prisoner in the passenger seat or what?
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Shadowmage on February 07, 2015, 09:07:10 PM
17

Huh, I find it interesting that the first season started out with average mechs taking down super robots, but this season Inaho has transcended super mechs where I wouldn't be surprised if he got out of his robot and took out the Aldnoah powered robots with a handgun.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Kavik Ryx on February 07, 2015, 11:41:39 PM
17

Just on the fact that there was no combat in this episode, I came off feeling a littler warmer towards it, which says a lot about how abused the premise has become. Shame that not too much happens because getting annoyed at Aldnoah Zero has really become a refreshing way to start the morning. Bit of course I can groan that they flat out said that Inaho customized the eye. The more they make him a Gary Stu, the more I wonder about the thought process behind writing his character. 
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: KS on February 08, 2015, 01:18:20 AM
The Vers Knights are pretty much the Titans in a lot of ways.  Slaine is trying to become the Scirocco but every time Inaho shows up he turns into more of a Jerid but that's just the way it goes.  Inaho continues his trek to surpass Jesus Yamato by the time all is said and done.  Asseylum pretty much seems to have been reduced to a plot device and seems content to sit this one out having served her purposes as both a battery and off switch during the first season.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: AC on February 08, 2015, 05:06:10 AM
17:

Negotiation is one of the most critical plot element in any narrative. That whole interrogation between Mazuurek and Inaho would have been a complicated one since it would've been nigh impossible to call each other's bluff. But not to worry; Inaho's Google Eye is able to write off improbable possibilities and wing the whole negotiation.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Kavik Ryx on February 14, 2015, 11:09:55 PM
18:

Oh Aldnoah Zero. My Sunday mornings just aren't the same without something glaringly wrong. It could have been a matter of improper phrasing, but I can't believe no one noticed that a beam (subatomic or energy) obeys the laws of gravity and thus curve as well, if ever so slightly. Though this one was fairly pathetic this time around with less ability to jam communication than a Zaku and the maneuvering and targeting ability of a turret.

But other than that, and the fact that Inko can't put 2 and 2 together about Inaho being involved in the Count's escape, this episode was actually fairly decent. Surely the duel with Slaine was far more entertaining to watch, even if heavily lifted from Gundam with the whole Newtype vs Funnel setup. I kind of hope we get less smugness from the Orbital Knights, but they still have every other human to be arrogant around. The thought had crossed my mind this time around during the episode about how horrible things will end up for Slaine once Asseylum revives, though it doesn't lol like we'll have to wait much longer.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Shadowmage on February 15, 2015, 12:13:46 PM
18

Lol, the life support did more harm than good.

As for Slaine's duel, I can't really see it going any other way since the staff would write themselves into a corner if they went for the path less journeyed.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: AC on February 20, 2015, 05:27:38 AM
18:

The Vers have a terrible superiority complex. Is there not one individual who can break this mold already? The single common reason all the past knights have fallen is complacency, anyway.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Kavik Ryx on February 22, 2015, 08:34:00 AM
19

While I have no love for Slaine, the more we see of him, the more I wish they just went with him as the central character and just have Inaho killed off without leaving everyone on Earth's side utterly brainless. Looks like Slaine managed to dodge a bullet with Asseylum reviving with some brain damage, and while drama demands she regains it, I kind of hope they have the cajones to keep her like this.

Ignoring how everyone looks kind of the same, something about the character designs I have found off putting, but until now I haven't been able to put my finger on it. It's the eyelids. They make all the Knights look extra smug and everyone else stoned.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: KS on February 22, 2015, 01:43:05 PM
19

While I have no love for Slaine, the more we see of him, the more I wish they just went with him as the central character and just have Inaho killed off without leaving everyone on Earth's side utterly brainless. Looks like Slaine managed to dodge a bullet with Asseylum reviving with some brain damage, and while drama demands she regains it, I kind of hope they have the cajones to keep her like this.

Ignoring how everyone looks kind of the same, something about the character designs I have found off putting, but until now I haven't been able to put my finger on it. It's the eyelids. They make all the Knights look extra smug and everyone else stoned.

So I'm not the only one that thinks this.  Personally while the character designs look alright just analyzed straight up as artwork I've never quite felt they felt well with the kind of story they are trying to tell and often even clash horribly with the oft gray FPS game like doom and gloom backgrounds of the series.  And honestly yeah it would have been way more interesting, but the way they go it certainly makes the series more easy to write for.  If I want to see a mecha series with more competent side characters (some of whom are even well over 20) I can always watch G-Reco anyway lol.

Also there's some people arguing that they don't see how Inaho could possibly win this next battle without enduring at least some sort of casualty this time, but given how things have gone so far I don't see why he couldn't exactly.  The only time his side ever really endured a serious casualty of a named character is before he decided to start fighting in that one guy that died way way back in episode 2.  Then again if it's time to clean house now would pretty much be the time to do it considering the show has a little over a month left and an hour and a half in it's entire run though I'm not sure what purpose it could really serve. 

It's starting to look more and more like the whole mystery of the Aldnoah origins, the Dr. Troyard subplot, and the historical conflict between Earth and VERS (Did we ever once see a Vers or human civilian and get to hear their story and what they think of all this or where things are going?) their beefs and politics in general are going to factor in very little to what they've decided to make the forefront of this show in the whole grudge match between Inaho and Slaine with the princesses I guess sort of caught in-between as prizes.  I have to say even in my most incredulous moments with the show I never thought the whole interstellar conflict would get parred down to quite the extent it has considering how it started off, but also 24 episodes split in distinct 12 episode chunks is just a laughable amount of time and pretty much tying your hands firmly behind your back if you want to try to jump start a Gundamish style mecha franchise and build said world, characters and their conflicts so perhaps it's just the staff realizing that telling this sort of story and making the most of it isn't as easy as they seemed to think it was going to be and trying to make the most of the elements they figure have been the most popular.

Anyway Asseylum has amnesia so still can't really factor too much into this season.  Honestly makes me kind of wonder why they even bothered having her survive, but they must have something planned for her too do I guess.  Probably going to follow through on the whole tearfully holding the gun thing from the OP, though I think it'll turn out to be a red herring and she won't actually kill Dear Leader Slaine but merely distract him long enough for something else to happen in order to bring about his downfall.  Incidentally I'm not sure if I can even consider Slaine a tragic character at this point.  Something about the way the shows universe just seems to work so heavily against him to the point where it almost starts to feel like a higher force is conspiring against the idea of him ever enjoying even a fleeting moment of happiness just kind of renders his whole character arc feeling kind of contrived and silly in a way.  I mean there's absolutely no silver lining in anything that has really happened to him at any point, he has no friends and everyone pretty much hates him.  He's just a suffering kind of character that has chosen to channel it into I guess some sort of power grab that's destined not to work out in the end and I'm not sure what the point of showing a character arc like that is at all. 
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Aeshma on February 28, 2015, 01:24:39 PM
This show is so much entertaining as a soap opera compared to whatever it was before.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Kavik Ryx on March 01, 2015, 01:53:26 PM
It's starting to look more and more like the whole mystery of the Aldnoah origins, the Dr. Troyard subplot, and the historical conflict between Earth and VERS (Did we ever once see a Vers or human civilian and get to hear their story and what they think of all this or where things are going?) their beefs and politics in general are going to factor in very little to what they've decided to make the forefront of this show in the whole grudge match between Inaho and Slaine with the princesses I guess sort of caught in-between as prizes.  I have to say even in my most incredulous moments with the show I never thought the whole interstellar conflict would get parred down to quite the extent it has considering how it started off, but also 24 episodes split in distinct 12 episode chunks is just a laughable amount of time and pretty much tying your hands firmly behind your back if you want to try to jump start a Gundamish style mecha franchise and build said world, characters and their conflicts so perhaps it's just the staff realizing that telling this sort of story and making the most of it isn't as easy as they seemed to think it was going to be and trying to make the most of the elements they figure have been the most popular.

Anyway Asseylum has amnesia so still can't really factor too much into this season.  Honestly makes me kind of wonder why they even bothered having her survive, but they must have something planned for her too do I guess.  Probably going to follow through on the whole tearfully holding the gun thing from the OP, though I think it'll turn out to be a red herring and she won't actually kill Dear Leader Slaine but merely distract him long enough for something else to happen in order to bring about his downfall.  Incidentally I'm not sure if I can even consider Slaine a tragic character at this point.  Something about the way the shows universe just seems to work so heavily against him to the point where it almost starts to feel like a higher force is conspiring against the idea of him ever enjoying even a fleeting moment of happiness just kind of renders his whole character arc feeling kind of contrived and silly in a way.  I mean there's absolutely no silver lining in anything that has really happened to him at any point, he has no friends and everyone pretty much hates him.  He's just a suffering kind of character that has chosen to channel it into I guess some sort of power grab that's destined not to work out in the end and I'm not sure what the point of showing a character arc like that is at all. 

The funny thing about Slaine is that I've seen his character work in a work that was wholly penned by Urobuchi Gen, Micchi from Kamen Rider Gaim. I'm the series he is torn by his conflicted loyalties to his friends and his brother while his sanity come to face with his morality and ambition become irreconcilable. Motivated by his inferiority complex, he finds himself distrustful of everyone whether withholding the fact that to the main Rider Kouta was responsible for one of their friends' believing Kouta will act irresponsibly know what he had done or going behind his brother's back feeling he has lost his way in the saving of humanity. He's a genuinely loathsome and pitiful character, but I would put him as one of the best in the franchise on character development alone. I think Slaine's ineffectual nature soured any idea of him being a serious player and Asseylum's condition feels a limp justification for his transformation. With regards to this most recent episode, I am convinced that keeping Inaho alive was form Slaine's sake because the resistance pretty much feels like a sideshow at this point. Without an external threat, the only realistic way they could have gone was a story about Slaine uniting the Knights who find themselves fighting over a conquered earth, which honestly sounds like a far more interesting show.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: KS on March 01, 2015, 03:57:14 PM
It's starting to look more and more like the whole mystery of the Aldnoah origins, the Dr. Troyard subplot, and the historical conflict between Earth and VERS (Did we ever once see a Vers or human civilian and get to hear their story and what they think of all this or where things are going?) their beefs and politics in general are going to factor in very little to what they've decided to make the forefront of this show in the whole grudge match between Inaho and Slaine with the princesses I guess sort of caught in-between as prizes.  I have to say even in my most incredulous moments with the show I never thought the whole interstellar conflict would get parred down to quite the extent it has considering how it started off, but also 24 episodes split in distinct 12 episode chunks is just a laughable amount of time and pretty much tying your hands firmly behind your back if you want to try to jump start a Gundamish style mecha franchise and build said world, characters and their conflicts so perhaps it's just the staff realizing that telling this sort of story and making the most of it isn't as easy as they seemed to think it was going to be and trying to make the most of the elements they figure have been the most popular.

Anyway Asseylum has amnesia so still can't really factor too much into this season.  Honestly makes me kind of wonder why they even bothered having her survive, but they must have something planned for her too do I guess.  Probably going to follow through on the whole tearfully holding the gun thing from the OP, though I think it'll turn out to be a red herring and she won't actually kill Dear Leader Slaine but merely distract him long enough for something else to happen in order to bring about his downfall.  Incidentally I'm not sure if I can even consider Slaine a tragic character at this point.  Something about the way the shows universe just seems to work so heavily against him to the point where it almost starts to feel like a higher force is conspiring against the idea of him ever enjoying even a fleeting moment of happiness just kind of renders his whole character arc feeling kind of contrived and silly in a way.  I mean there's absolutely no silver lining in anything that has really happened to him at any point, he has no friends and everyone pretty much hates him.  He's just a suffering kind of character that has chosen to channel it into I guess some sort of power grab that's destined not to work out in the end and I'm not sure what the point of showing a character arc like that is at all. 

The funny thing about Slaine is that I've seen his character work in a work that was wholly penned by Urobuchi Gen, Micchi from Kamen Rider Gaim. I'm the series he is torn by his conflicted loyalties to his friends and his brother while his sanity come to face with his morality and ambition become irreconcilable. Motivated by his inferiority complex, he finds himself distrustful of everyone whether withholding the fact that to the main Rider Kouta was responsible for one of their friends' believing Kouta will act irresponsibly know what he had done or going behind his brother's back feeling he has lost his way in the saving of humanity. He's a genuinely loathsome and pitiful character, but I would put him as one of the best in the franchise on character development alone. I think Slaine's ineffectual nature soured any idea of him being a serious player and Asseylum's condition feels a limp justification for his transformation. With regards to this most recent episode, I am convinced that keeping Inaho alive was form Slaine's sake because the resistance pretty much feels like a sideshow at this point. Without an external threat, the only realistic way they could have gone was a story about Slaine uniting the Knights who find themselves fighting over a conquered earth, which honestly sounds like a far more interesting show.

Sounds like second arc SPT Layzner really.  Anyway by the time I'm done with this series I think I'm probably going to have had my fill of exactly the kind of character you just described for quite a while.  The whole despair porn thing gets a little draining and tiresome after a while and kind of works better for movies rather than long running TV shows that just keep beating it in along with pushing characters in certain directions.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: AC on March 03, 2015, 06:45:01 AM
20:

How to tell if one party is lying? Use game theory.

Assumingly, Inaho knew the chances that the imposter does not know (or is not trained to know) everything the bona fide princess went through. And by giving that medallion, he hopes to invoke the real princess into action.

Smart.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: CNile on March 08, 2015, 10:36:20 PM
21:

Slaine breaking off from the Vers Empire and forming an independent nation makes me want to play some Mount & Blade: Warband.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: TypicalIdiotFan on March 09, 2015, 10:05:26 PM
Chiming in here for a second just to say that this might not be the greatest anime in the universe, but it sure has ****ing good background music.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: hyperknees91 on March 17, 2015, 05:11:36 AM
22: Haha you knew they wouldn't have Inaho's and the princesses actual "reunion" until the last episode.

Anyway this has been an entertaining show with some nice action. The plot had some interesting points but there's no way I can see everything being nicely resolved in 2 episodes. Too many characters are left underdeveloped and too many subplots are suffering in the same way. Still I can't really complain this time around, because I enjoyed the show overall. So while it won't be anything memorable, I don't regret watching it.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: AC on March 18, 2015, 05:48:35 AM
22:

"Cleared for lunch." Mmm, lunch.

I wonder why introduce a new character like Klancain so late into the show. A part of me screams plot device but if the show only has 2 episodes left, then what's the point? Then another part of me screams deus ex machina but why do so two episodes away from the ending?

*scratches his head*
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Kavik Ryx on March 18, 2015, 06:19:00 AM
Unless there are plans for a third season that deals with life on Mars (cue Bowie music in the background). He seems enough of a non entity that he may end up like those last minute Round Table knights from Code Geass I.e last minute cannon fodder. My guess comes along the line convenient final boss, because seriously I don't think they they intend to end with Inaho v Slaine and they don't really have anyone built up enough to be the big bad. Unless they want to be truly balsy/ridiculous and have one of the princesses pilot a robot.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: KS on March 18, 2015, 11:27:58 AM
This show really lacks a strong central character that can sort of play the voice of reason. It's like everyone in this universe has kind of been lobotomized in a way with almost nobody in a position to really do anything coming across at all like a rational human being. If I had to think of anyone who says things most frequently that seem to be things a somewhat rational human being might say in the situation they are in the only name that really comes to mind is Yuki and that's really about it. It's like we're at the end of another Aniplex mecha series now on their third studio and everyone in the universe is again a huge asshole with nobody to really root for or be particularly concerned as to their final fate. Like does Slaine die? Does Inaho die? Does the princess....again? I don't really care, I'd sooner leave it to their apparently extremely bitterly divided fanbases to sort out lol. Personally I wouldn't particularly mind a double KO that takes both ridiculous male leads out.

They really botched the idea of the whole rivalry between the two characters in any case. Whereas Amuro and Char were pretty compelling as an example it's the utter failure of these two to be developed naturally and into characters whose shoes you can truly place yourself in (I don't mean self insert, I mean relate to as human beings) and then try to par down and focus the entire conflict pretty much around their drawn out duel that sunk this show for me more than anything in the long run whereas everything else about it is just kind of okay or fairly standard.

Kavik Ryx I could have sworn they were going to be doing a third season with their last attempt at a mecha anime in Valvrave right up until the day before the final episode given the pacing and where the story was at but nope never happened.  Whether this one is different I don't know, but history stands against it and considering the show never really seemed to take off all that much more than Valvrave did it's really hard to say.  A-1's schedule is already massively overbooked already for upcoming seasons so if it happened realistically it wouldn't happen for a year or so , but then again when has that ever stopped them from taking on more work and what keeps them from just putting another installment in Winter besides maybe availability of the staff.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: CNile on March 20, 2015, 11:59:29 AM
22:

There's nothing I hate more than plot armor, especially when there's not even an explanation of any kind. Asseylum and friends are getting shot at by three guys, ten meters away in a narrow corridor for a solid six seconds (so upwards of a few hundred bullets), and not a single one of them even gets grazed. Did the Japanese military even test these men to make sure they're sighted before arming them and sending them on their way?
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: hyperknees91 on March 21, 2015, 01:21:38 PM
23: And then the shippers lit their torches and went on a hunt for the director.

I don't know what she hopes to accomplish by marrying this guy, I thought the problem was that Slaine had the Aldnoah power and that's why everyone was following him, and he also wants to invade Earth.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: gedata on March 21, 2015, 07:13:02 PM
23:

Slaine sure got cucked huh? Also seems like Inaho and HAL ain't getting along too well

I just want this to end guys. No more pls.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: KS on March 21, 2015, 08:49:21 PM
23: I don't know how many people saw Buddy Complex but is it me or is Slaine more or less Bizon Gerafil at this point.  Like his character took such a bloody weird turn this season.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Kavik Ryx on March 22, 2015, 02:36:38 AM
23: And then the shippers lit their torches and went on a hunt for the director.

I don't know what she hopes to accomplish by marrying this guy, I thought the problem was that Slaine had the Aldnoah power and that's why everyone was following him, and he also wants to invade Earth.

Well when you're choices include someone with no personality and another with no brain, Count Plot Device is more or less an equally compatible suitor.

So it looks like they're going for a fairly clean ending here. Seeing Aseylum do the "I have taken over this broadcast," reminded me of Lacus is SEED DESTINY, and nothing benefits from being like SEED DESTINY. I did find it a tad entertaining seeing the "this is the last battle" montage for the crew after this season has done zero to further characterize any of them.

23 episodes and I'm still unsure how I feel about this show. Out of anything this season, I come back to it most regularly. It's entertaining certainly. But on the other hand it does so many things wrong in such easy to analyze ways. I think it has become more an intellectual curiosity than anything else. 
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: hyperknees91 on March 22, 2015, 06:09:50 AM
Quote
Well when you're choices include someone with no personality and another with no brain, Count Plot Device is more or less an equally compatible suitor. 

Well I'm just not sure what this accomplishes is the thing. By all intents and purposes they still have to fight slain and the other vers people are still going to be following him instead. I guess it's for when after the battle is over they'll have her as the ruler, but I'm not sure why she had to marry someone either. It's not like this guys seems to command sizable respect.

As hilarious as it would have been to me, if she really wanted to stop the war. She could have married slaine for real this time, and convinced him to stop war through his sheer obsession with her as long as she gave him what he wants (well this is factoring in if slain really has no other motives beyond the princess). Seems more like a win if you ask me rather than this random poorly slapped together end plot device.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Kavik Ryx on March 22, 2015, 10:32:03 AM
Quote
Well when you're choices include someone with no personality and another with no brain, Count Plot Device is more or less an equally compatible suitor. 

Well I'm just not sure what this accomplishes is the thing. By all intents and purposes they still have to fight slain and the other vers people are still going to be following him instead. I guess it's for when after the battle is over they'll have her as the ruler, but I'm not sure why she had to marry someone either. It's not like this guys seems to command sizable respect.

As hilarious as it would have been to me, if she really wanted to stop the war. She could have married slaine for real this time, and convinced him to stop war through his sheer obsession with her as long as she gave him what he wants (well this is factoring in if slain really has no other motives beyond the princess). Seems more like a win if you ask me rather than this random poorly slapped together end plot device.

Since we have no idea what relation these two characters have, I'm putting it as a matter that he was in the room at the time and he has a known name. She could have said Kaizuka to send a message to Slaine and to appease the Inaho fans (all three of them). But he has no brand recognition, so saying she was going to marry Count Plot Device deuces the point to all of Vers.

As for why she didn't swoon herself towards Slaine to end the fighting, I think he would have turned it down, not because of any character traits we are aware of though. But rather because Slaine has become Zechs from Gundam Wing and lacks an ethos for anything he does at this point.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Reckoner on March 22, 2015, 11:58:20 AM
23:

Yeah there's absolutely no way this can conclude coherently in one more episode. It's quite unfortunate that Gen's departure from an anime project correlates once again with its eventual failure thereafter.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: KS on March 22, 2015, 07:03:16 PM
23:

Yeah there's absolutely no way this can conclude coherently in one more episode. It's quite unfortunate that Gen's departure from an anime project correlates once again with its eventual failure thereafter.

If you asked me it was kind of boned from the start just from the kitchen sink approach it tried to take with only  24 episodes.  It wouldn't shock me if they tried an approach like doing a movie version and trying to get him to write it so that if nothing else people pay attention to and start buying related products again.  Personally I don't think he's a magic fix all button as a writer but I know for a lot of people that is the case and you could see the enthusiasm for this show kind of crater after he more or less Alan Smithee'd himself out of it or at least tried to after the fact.

@TIF: Shocking that I would totally disagree with you on something but the music is a ****ing joke that can't even hold a candle to the same guys work with Gundam Unicorn
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Mori on March 23, 2015, 04:41:45 AM
For a story spanning two planets and the conflict between them, the actual scope of the story is actually rather small. The story actually revolves around conflicts surrounding a small group of people in Deucalion as well as a few on Mars. While this can still salvaged as a character-focused story (which it fails horribly at), this leaves the actual setting of the story unexplored. For instance, the Orbital Knights make many references to inequality and suffering in the Vers Empire, but none of this is actually shown, limiting these issues to mere rhetoric. None of this feels like an actual war with real stakes.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: hyperknees91 on March 28, 2015, 11:45:01 AM
24: Awful, simply awful. How in the world is earth able to simply forgive Vers for all they done. That is not how war would ever play out at this point.

Anyway season 2 was a giant mess. Underdeveloped characters, random plot points and in general no sense of flow. Relied too much on gimmicks to push the plot forward. Season one was fun when it kept things simple. The best thing about this season was Lemrina as she was genuinely an ok character. Still the plot didn't work in her favor. Major bummer.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Marid King on March 28, 2015, 01:10:56 PM
24:

That was an ending?

5/10.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: gedata on March 28, 2015, 05:00:43 PM
24:

That was....surprisingly boring. So Earth and Mars are going to be all buddy-buddy because the Princess said so? Did every one forget about the fake Princess and her rallying the troops to strike hard against Earth? Asseylum is really going to let Slaine take the blame for the war even though he was only a slave when it started? Also imprisoning the dude for the rest of his life isn't going to break him out of his "chain of misery".

I never cared for the romance in this series but seriously, just imagine all the salty shippers.Asseylum ended up forgoing Slainaho for a political marriage with some guy who appeared only a couple episodes ago.

Bad show
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: hyperknees91 on March 28, 2015, 08:38:26 PM
The worst thing about the political marriage isn't the shipping though. It just literally makes no sense on why it happened at all. Like you said, none of the princesses actions would have to lead to the war stopping. No thought was put into the last 2 episodes at all.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: KS on March 28, 2015, 09:12:02 PM
Man when the inevitable SRW appearance for Gundam AGE and Aldnoah happens they really need to pair them up on the same route as they really are remarkably similar, though I'd largely call AGE the better show.  Urobuchi even thought so too when coming up with the story concept to such a degree that he said he essentially had to redo the draft in order to avoid plagiarism accusations.  This makes me want to see the early early draft as how much more similar could it be I wonder.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Kavik Ryx on March 28, 2015, 11:44:08 PM
For what was supposed to be a new kind of mecha series, the ending was, well, horrendously predicable. The fact that Slaine didn't see his plans capable of falling apart at Asseylum's hands was a testament to his own stupidity. The one thing that surprised me was that she actually id marry Count Plot Device. As far as ending fights go, it was competent and at lest fun, but it was kind of close to to G Reco's recent final battle, which at least had more creativity to it.

KS, you say this is reminiscent of Age, but not having seen Age I'm gonna have to make a different comparison. This is Wing, a pointless fight with Slaine and Inaho standing in for Zechs and Heero. And they're rather poor man's versions of the two. In the end, Slaine had nothing to fight other than he was in too deep. And Asseylum manages to dispel animosity between Earth and Vers with her presence alone. Hell, like Wing, the music was the only thing working here with any intelligence this show may have aspoused to being superficial and character development bein nonexistant.

Last season I would have said was a high 6. One is a horribly low 4 at best. But while it's bad, it's an interesting kind of bad. In biology squids are used to study neurons because of the size of their neural cells, and Aldnoah Zero is kind of like the squid neuron of bad anime, the flaws are visible. One thing I had wondered throughout Aldnoah was what would happen if you replaced Inaho with a more charismatic protagonist like Lelouch. Would all the questionable and poor decisions be ignorable because of the energy such a character would bring, or just make the show more smug?
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: AHideyo on March 29, 2015, 06:49:35 AM
I am looking to watch this show after so long time of consideration and I still can't decide. Should I go for this or no?
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: hyperknees91 on March 29, 2015, 06:51:22 AM
I'd have to say no. Season 1 was fun and entertaining if a bit simple minded at times, but season 2 was just overly ambitious and failed to deliver at every level. It's got good music and some cool action, so I guess if that's enough for you give it a whirl. Just don't expect the story to play out very well.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: AC on March 29, 2015, 07:36:38 AM
Final:

Being Slaine is suffering.

But that ending though... just too easy. Looks like something being pulled out of one's butthole.

--

My thoughts on Aldnoah.ZERO S2:

The first season took me by surprise a little because of the mecha fights. Not much about the unrelatable characters or the hole-covered plot, because I never felt anything about them. But the mecha fights with physics (well, fictional psychics sometimes) references and great soundtrack by Sawano Hiroyuki were enough reason for me to watch. The ending... well, controversial for all the wrong reasons.

The second season started off with an amazingly easy explanation on where things left, but nothing really changes. Has the quality of the mecha fights gotten better? Yes, with more production budget. Better plot? Not really; the story hasn't been the show's strongest point. Music? Just as good as the first season's. Ending? Completely unsatisfactory. Plus, the fact that there's nothing novel about the second season makes it even less enjoyable to watch.

It's a 5/10. Meh.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: KS on March 29, 2015, 10:07:55 AM
I feel like I remain pretty much the only one where the soundtrack was a definite negative with this show.  Again just too many vocal tracks and too small a selection with not enough variety.  Also odd is that they apparently had a second volume OST that was never really used.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: hyperknees91 on March 29, 2015, 11:42:12 AM
Well the soundtrack was inappropriate a lot of the time for sure. But I guess catchy tunes can win over an audience. This bothered me a lot with the first few episodes because of their more serious and grim tone (obvious urobutcher script). Basically its a nice cd to listen to outside of the anime.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Shadowmage on March 29, 2015, 07:19:17 PM
End

Okay, quick question, did Slaine actually make sense to anyone from the last episode of Season 1 forward?  Because I don't know what makes the guy tick.

They should have just made Slaine a Martian who had a bone to pick with Earth and used his love of the princess as an excuse to justify his madness.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: KS on March 29, 2015, 08:17:38 PM
End

Okay, quick question, did Slaine actually make sense to anyone from the last episode of Season 1 forward?  Because I don't know what makes the guy tick.

They should have just made Slaine a Martian who had a bone to pick with Earth and used his love of the princess as an excuse to justify his madness.

No lol and I'm glad I'm not the only one.  As I've said his character takes a really weird turn from the point you describe.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Kavik Ryx on March 29, 2015, 08:35:27 PM
End

Okay, quick question, did Slaine actually make sense to anyone from the last episode of Season 1 forward?  Because I don't know what makes the guy tick.

They should have just made Slaine a Martian who had a bone to pick with Earth and used his love of the princess as an excuse to justify his madness.

Not unless there is some culture out there where conquering earth is the most obvious way to impress your peacenik girlfriend.

My best guess is that he simply accepted that Asseylum wasn't leaving the Bacta tank and he might as well settle for the next best thing so long as Sazabaum was already on that track.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: gedata on March 29, 2015, 08:37:55 PM
I feel like I remain pretty much the only one where the soundtrack was a definite negative with this show.  Again just too many vocal tracks and too small a selection with not enough variety.  Also odd is that they apparently had a second volume OST that was never really used.
The thing that ruins the OST for me is definitely the fact that the only time they changed insert songs was between seasons. Otherwise every battle sounded exactly the same, as if the director wanted to assign as much importance to the random skirmishes as the season climaxes.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: hyperknees91 on March 29, 2015, 08:43:22 PM
The only thing I could fathom was Slaine was somehow trying to create a place where he belonged. Being an earthling but seen as a martian and being a martian but seen as an earthling, he probably couldn't feel at peace anywhere. The only place that gave him this peace was Assaeylem, and well the writers kinda wrote her out of the story until the end. So I guess he wanted the same thing as Lemrina in the end.

Granted I think his foolish mistake was killing his father count (I forget his name). This made him get way over his head with no way to handle all the things he was trying to tackle. Also Assaelyem waking up probably screwed with his original plans to a large degree.

But who knows really. He's just a poorly written smug. The writers murdered his character in the second half which is a horrible fate for any character to suffer. I honestly think this could have been refrained if the princess had just died properly the first time.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: KS on March 29, 2015, 11:15:18 PM
I feel like I remain pretty much the only one where the soundtrack was a definite negative with this show.  Again just too many vocal tracks and too small a selection with not enough variety.  Also odd is that they apparently had a second volume OST that was never really used.
The thing that ruins the OST for me is definitely the fact that the only time they changed insert songs was between seasons. Otherwise every battle sounded exactly the same, as if the director wanted to assign as much importance to the random skirmishes as the season climaxes.

That reminds me of a funny video someone linked me where they keep superimposing the ending theme from the first season the show really liked to play almost every other track except literally for every possible situation.  Boy did this show love that one song.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Reckoner on March 30, 2015, 09:32:34 AM
All I can say at the end of this show is that I wish I could get Gen to actually write a full mecha story. Not just help with scenario and some vague details and bail after a couple episodes. Aldnoah ended up becoming pure mediocrity. Disappointment through and through. Well at least it wasn't another Valvrave or Cross Ange. 5/10
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Sidenote on August 09, 2015, 07:25:09 AM
Will someone please help me? Aside from Eureka 7 and Code Geass, I've never really been into mechas. Just never got around to trying them out. But then I watched Aldonoah Zero, and I absolutely loved the mecha premise. Does anyone have any suggestions for good mechas that a) have good mecha AND character animations b) aren't 10+ years old, and c) won't screw me over like Aldnoah Zero did (2nd season was absolute bull).
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Pebble on August 09, 2015, 10:15:33 AM
So I've had a thought.

Yamato 2199 is mecha. Here's why: everything a mecha show has (minus the robots) is in Yamato 2199. Likewise, everything you'll find in Yamato 2199 would not at all be out of place in some other mecha show. So if somebody made all the planes in Yamato 2199 transformable robots, Yamato would be a mecha show. But this change is so very minor and cosmetic, that I argue that it should not even be counted a change proper. Thus Yamato 2199 is a mecha show.
Now thats not what I wanted to really do: what I really want to highlight is that things like Yamato 2199 make it obvious that the mecha genre itself is a poor classification for stories, or at least, is poorer than most. I believe Desdemondia made this observation a while ago too; even now "mecha" tells you nothing about the type of story save that there will be robots. Could one say the same for "Harem"? I think so, but to a lesser degree. And this is all to say that you might want to watch Yamato 2199.

Other than that, Full Metal Panic; Bokurano; Gurren Lagann. They're all shows and franchises people could write you nice paragraphs on. I'm just going randomly here. And that reminds me that I have to get back to RahXephon.

If, though, you just want robots, and you want to take the animation route to things, you might want to spend some time at sakugabooru (http://sakuga.yshi.org/post?page=10&tags=mecha). You will find an obscene amount of Gundam Build Fighters there, so try looking beyond that. Its also a good substitute for 9gag.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: KS on August 09, 2015, 11:11:33 AM
Will someone please help me? Aside from Eureka 7 and Code Geass, I've never really been into mechas. Just never got around to trying them out. But then I watched Aldonoah Zero, and I absolutely loved the mecha premise. Does anyone have any suggestions for good mechas that a) have good mecha AND character animations b) aren't 10+ years old, and c) won't screw me over like Aldnoah Zero did (2nd season was absolute bull).

IMO Aldnoah.Zero isn't a very good example of a strong mecha series (possibly why it's hooked a lot of non-mecha watches in the first place) so based on that it might actually be hard to recommend you anything.  I know tons of different series throughout the years, like I'd recommend a Gundam which Aldnoah.Zero was trying to emulate (poor mans Gundam really) a lot but I'm not sure if you'd like it or how your taste is for older animation styles.  Given that you've put a 10 year old production date limitation on this (not a good thing to do to oneself when it comes to mecha anime since so many of the best ones are IMO from the 80's and 90's) I'd dare suggest what you ask might even be nigh impossible or at least very very tricky.  I don't know....Gundam 00 maybe?  That's like what...8 years old now so it meets the strict time

I'd second the recommendation for Yamato 2199 as well since it's a rare example of something with an old school mixed with new school vibe that is like the perfect blend for getting older and newer fans engaged, something Aldnoah massively missed the mark on (It mainly appealed to new school people that have a tendency to reject anything with mecha on site) IMO.  Frankly I'm not a subscriber to the whole 2nd season of Aldnoah dropped the ball on the first season thing IMO.  The first season was pretty mediocre mecha fair period, the 2nd season was simply the other shoe dropping and the production team throwing up it's hands and basically going "Yeah you got us, we've actually got nothing" to follow up on the epic bragging and showboating from the first half and it's promotional phase.  For a team of people that has pretty much never worked on a mecha series before and whose director chose to base his work off of the atrocious Hades Project Zeorymer OVA from the 80's boy were they ever cocky as **** about it.

Quote from: pebble
Now thats not what I wanted to really do: what I really want to highlight is that things like Yamato 2199 make it obvious that the mecha genre itself is a poor classification for stories, or at least, is poorer than most. I believe Desdemondia made this observation a while ago too; even now "mecha" tells you nothing about the type of story save that there will be robots. Could one say the same for "Harem"? I think so, but to a lesser degree. And this is all to say that you might want to watch Yamato 2199.

Over the years I've kind of grown to accept that the mere label "mecha" can kind of be a turnoff for a lot of viewers kind of like the whole "Harem", "Ecchi" "Romance" or "VN/LN Adaptation" labels have typically said to me "stay away from this, you won't like it much".  There's just a certain stigma to certain genre labels or styles that turn some people away and mecha is one of the bigger ones.  A lot of people just do not like it anymore, even in Japan....unless it's something established like Gundam, Macross  or Yamato.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Shadowmage on August 09, 2015, 11:34:44 AM
Will someone please help me? Aside from Eureka 7 and Code Geass, I've never really been into mechas. Just never got around to trying them out. But then I watched Aldonoah Zero, and I absolutely loved the mecha premise. Does anyone have any suggestions for good mechas that a) have good mecha AND character animations b) aren't 10+ years old, and c) won't screw me over like Aldnoah Zero did (2nd season was absolute bull).

1. Gundam Unicorn
2. Macross Frontier
3. Yamato 2199
4. Gundam 00

If you're wiling to go for over the top, Gurren Lagann
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: Sidenote on August 09, 2015, 07:11:23 PM
Well, thanks for the suggestions, I will definitely try them out.

Quote
IMO Aldnoah.Zero isn't a very good example of a strong mecha series

And I thought I'd just throw it out their, but I don't think that Aldnoah Zero was a good mecha (or a good anything, for that matter). But I did notice two things that I really liked about the series: quality animation, and robots doing cool stuff. So I figured that if I was able to like that in a bad show, then I'd absolutely love it in a good series. And I singled out mechas because, well, I don't know of any other genre known for gigantic robos.
Title: Re: Aldnoah.Zero
Post by: KS on August 09, 2015, 07:22:30 PM
Well, thanks for the suggestions, I will definitely try them out.

Quote
IMO Aldnoah.Zero isn't a very good example of a strong mecha series

And I thought I'd just throw it out their, but I don't think that Aldnoah Zero was a good mecha (or a good anything, for that matter). But I did notice two things that I really liked about the series: quality animation, and robots doing cool stuff. So I figured that if I was able to like that in a bad show, then I'd absolutely love it in a good series. And I singled out mechas because, well, I don't know of any other genre known for gigantic robos.

This is just my opinion but if like good animation and robots doing cool stuff then you really can't go wrong with Sunrises line of mecha shows.  There's actually a Code Geass OVA out now called Akito The Exiled that has all around fantastic 2D and 3D animation and Gundam Unicorn is top notch if you aren't overly concerned with knowing the backstory.  IMO it's exponentially more fulfilling if you do though.