The Nihon Review Forum

Everything Else => Games => Topic started by: ImperialX on January 16, 2014, 04:37:41 PM

Title: Umineko no Naku Koro Ni + Chiru
Post by: ImperialX on January 16, 2014, 04:37:41 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/uJfEs4n.jpg) (http://konachan.net/post/show/82907/asmodeus-beatrice-beelzebub-belphegor-claire_berna)

Umineko is a very special visual novel to me. Since finishing the game many years ago, I have spent more time on this series than any other franchises. Through his writing, Ryukishi07 has changed many viewpoints I have on life itself. What makes Umineko a masterpiece is the fact that people will walk out of the game, some having gained nothing but frustration, yet some having reached a new state of mind (such as myself).

Many people will answer Muv-Luv Alternative or Ever17 when asked what their favorite visual novels are, but I will answer that Umineko is not only my favorite visual novel, but the greatest thing I've ever read. This means in any medium, stretching from paper books to anime to live action movies.  I thought I would be doing the franchise a huge demerit should I not at least attempt to spread this game a bit more, even though it's quite an old title. The purposes of creating this thread is mostly as a motivator to make Pebble play through this game faster, but I also want everyone here to have a go at it if they haven't. Not everyone will like Umineko. In fact, many people and critics panned it. However it's such a unique piece of work, regardless of whether you end up liking it or not, it's without a doubt worth your time playing.

Split into eight segments, with the latter four episodes labeled "Umineko no Naku Koro Ni Chiru", this is quite the lengthy read. For those of you unfamiliar with visual novels, it can be daunting. It took me well over 50 hours to play through all eight episodes. However the end result is definitely worth it.

As R07 once said in his interview with KEIYA, “With Umineko, I have created a way to reveal everything in a way that could not be copied and pasted.” The discussions for this series is endless as evident by 1700 pages thread on AnimeSuki (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=83581), and that's so precious for works in this industry today. It's my hope that everyone will take a look into this game as long as time allows. It's a series that I can proudly call a masterpiece. If any of you do choose to get started with this journey, I'd love for you to keep us updated with your progress here. If you've finished the game, I would love your thoughts regardless of whether you hated it or loved it.

Also, there is no Umineko anime.
Title: Re: Umineko no Naku Koro Ni + Chiru
Post by: Marid King on January 16, 2014, 04:46:35 PM
This is a horror one, right?
Title: Re: Umineko no Naku Koro Ni + Chiru
Post by: ImperialX on January 16, 2014, 04:48:34 PM
This is a horror one, right?

Not really horror? More like mystery...deconstruction. That's the best way I can put it.

Oh, and Action, Comedy, Romance, Drama, Fantasy...
Title: Re: Umineko no Naku Koro Ni + Chiru
Post by: MCAL on January 16, 2014, 05:01:51 PM
I played Umineko a few months ago (I played with the PS3 patch though). I like it very much, and I think the people who pan it (About not answering the whodunit) are missing the point entirely, though I prefer Higurashi over it.

It's not by much though, I'd give Higurashi a 9/10 and Umineko an 8.5/10.

EDIT: Umineko however does have the best soundtrack in the VNs I've played. Very atmospheric.
Title: Re: Umineko no Naku Koro Ni + Chiru
Post by: TypicalIdiotFan on January 16, 2014, 07:42:47 PM
Quote
Also, there is no Umineko anime.

Oh yes there ****ing is, and it is mostly thanks to you assholes that I watched it.
Title: Re: Umineko no Naku Koro Ni + Chiru
Post by: Aelms on January 16, 2014, 10:13:15 PM
Still waiting for you answer posts, ImperialX.

While I was very intrigued by Umineko's mystery, I would recommend Umineko to anyone looking for a compelling and well-written narrative just because of how it kept drawing strong emotive responses from me. From the ridiculousness of the plot's presentation to the compelling characters, I never felt that I was losing out even when I had no idea HOW I could solve the mystery. If anything, I feel that Umineko is a compelling story that will be a learning experience or a point of debate for anyone who musters up the motivation to read it.
Title: Re: Umineko no Naku Koro Ni + Chiru
Post by: Marid King on January 16, 2014, 10:17:16 PM
OK now, just you pretend that you are speaking to your beloved 4 year old daughter who means the world to you, and she is absolute terrified of anything significantly over the rating of Mature, now you pretend that I am that little girl, you look me in the eye, and you tell me that this is not scary.
Title: Re: Umineko no Naku Koro Ni + Chiru
Post by: ImperialX on January 16, 2014, 10:39:57 PM
Still waiting for you answer posts, ImperialX.

While I was very intrigued by Umineko's mystery, I would recommend Umineko to anyone looking for a compelling and well-written narrative just because of how it kept drawing strong emotive responses from me. From the ridiculousness of the plot's presentation to the compelling characters, I never felt that I was losing out even when I had no idea HOW I could solve the mystery. If anything, I feel that Umineko is a compelling story that will be a learning experience or a point of debate for anyone who musters up the motivation to read it.

I've actually been playing through the game again, and this time in Japanese because I found that a few things weren't quite in place given how the Red Text was interpreted in Witch-Hunt's translation. I'm really sorry for taking this long, but with a story as deep and intricate as Umineko, I can't put my thoughts on paper until I'm absolutely prepared.

As Ryukishi said, one can fully enjoy Umineko even without thinking about the mystery component of it at all, and you're absolutely correct in saying that you can read it if only for the compelling story.

Oh yes there ****ing is, and it is mostly thanks to you assholes that I watched it.

It happened in your dream. It doesn't actually exist. You need to play the VN.

OK now, just you pretend that you are speaking to your beloved 4 year old daughter who means the world to you, and she is absolute terrified of anything significantly over the rating of Mature, now you pretend that I am that little girl, you look me in the eye, and you tell me that this is not scary.

Anything would be Horror if that was the case. Detective Conan gave me nightmares when I was 9. I constantly thought those faceless men colored in black would come and murder me when I was asleep and create a sealed room.
Title: Re: Umineko no Naku Koro Ni + Chiru
Post by: Aelms on January 17, 2014, 12:39:21 AM
OK now, just you pretend that you are speaking to your beloved 4 year old daughter who means the world to you, and she is absolute terrified of anything significantly over the rating of Mature, now you pretend that I am that little girl, you look me in the eye, and you tell me that this is not scary.

Once upon a time nearly pissed my pants playing through Lavender Town. I don't think it was a horror game though.
Title: Re: Umineko no Naku Koro Ni + Chiru
Post by: Marid King on January 17, 2014, 05:47:29 AM
God damnit I'll look it up myself
Title: Re: Umineko no Naku Koro Ni + Chiru
Post by: TypicalIdiotFan on January 17, 2014, 11:37:18 AM
Quote
It happened in your dream. It doesn't actually exist. You need to play the VN.

I don't even like regular cats, so what makes you think I want to watch VNs based on nautical versions of them?
Title: Re: Umineko no Naku Koro Ni + Chiru
Post by: hyperknees91 on January 17, 2014, 02:17:16 PM
Started reading it recently with the ps3 patch. So glad I did as a lot would be missed out without some of the glorious voice acting.

Funny because the anime was so bad. I think I will pin the anime as the worst visual novel adaption ever made haha. I can't blame them though, this is wayyyyy too long to have an anime adaption.

I would never call Umineko a horror game though. It's a thriller, mainly made for shock value. It's too over the top to be creepy haha.
Title: Re: Umineko no Naku Koro Ni + Chiru
Post by: Mori on January 17, 2014, 03:28:55 PM
I wouldn't go as far as to call it "the worst visual novel adaptation ever made" since that is a fairly steep standard, but it really does piss right on all those fans who actually wanted to solve the mystery.
Title: Re: Umineko no Naku Koro Ni + Chiru
Post by: hyperknees91 on January 17, 2014, 04:33:10 PM
Well I can't think of a worse one personally. Not even the tsukihime anime was as bad as everyone made it out to be. Sure it was bad for the fans, but it certainly wasn't unwatchable. The directing and pacing on the umineko anime however...was beyond atrocious.
Title: Re: Umineko no Naku Koro Ni + Chiru
Post by: thanosmat on January 17, 2014, 04:59:57 PM
Tsukihime and Umineko anime are in the same level to me. Atrocious.

In Umineko I prefer the original art. The troll and cry faces in the new art is not in the same level of the R07 designs. But the voice acting is very good. Sayaka Ohara Beatrice is insane.
Title: Re: Umineko no Naku Koro Ni + Chiru
Post by: MCAL on January 17, 2014, 05:41:31 PM
Well, Umineko is just too complicated and extensive a VN to adapt to anime form. The much better manga adaption which basically adapts the VN word for word (Not completely though) for the first four arcs that the anime covered is twenty monthly volumes (102 chapters). So twenty six episodes is not enough for more than half of that. And even with the manga there are complaints if there is a slightest change or admission from the VN. So you can see, unless the anime got an unlimited number of episodes, it was a lost cause even if it got the best director, writer and studio anime could offer (And the anime did have decent writers).

EDIT: And yes... Despite the above there were problems that Kon could have avoided.
Title: Re: Umineko no Naku Koro Ni + Chiru
Post by: ImperialX on January 20, 2014, 04:53:33 PM
Started reading it recently with the ps3 patch. So glad I did as a lot would be missed out without some of the glorious voice acting.

I'm with thanosmat on this one - I prefer Ryukishi07's original art style more than the PS3. The PS3 version is a bit too generic. I know R07's art takes some getting used to, but I feel it's appropriate for the series.

But the voice acting is very good. Sayaka Ohara Beatrice is insane.

This is true. It's quite a big dilemma really. I like the original art but really like the voices. I wish there was a patch for only the voice...then again, if I'm given the choice of playing with original art, or PS3 + Voice, I would actually go for the original art.
Title: Re: Umineko no Naku Koro Ni + Chiru
Post by: thanosmat on January 20, 2014, 05:03:03 PM
Started reading it recently with the ps3 patch. So glad I did as a lot would be missed out without some of the glorious voice acting.

I'm with thanosmat on this one - I prefer Ryukishi07's original art style more than the PS3. The PS3 version is a bit too generic. I know R07's art takes some getting used to, but I feel it's appropriate for the series.

But the voice acting is very good. Sayaka Ohara Beatrice is insane.

This is true. It's quite a big dilemma really. I like the original art but really like the voices. I wish there was a patch for only the voice...then again, if I'm given the choice of playing with original art, or PS3 + Voice, I would actually go for the original art.

There is a way. Only download the arc file for voices and use the original for backgrounds and sprites.
Title: Re: Umineko no Naku Koro Ni + Chiru
Post by: Aelms on January 20, 2014, 05:04:46 PM
I never played the game with the voices but from the stray vids I took a look at, I actually think that the game is simply better without voices. The characters have such colorful and distinct personalities just by the script that I find their lines more powerful when I imagine how they would sound. Not to mention how having to listen to voices is a bit awkward for reading VNs.
Title: Re: Umineko no Naku Koro Ni + Chiru
Post by: TypicalIdiotFan on January 20, 2014, 05:42:25 PM
Quote
R07's art

...is ****ing garbage.  He may be able to write and create some interesting worlds and characters, but draw them he cannot.

Having said that, the marriage between his works and DEEN becomes sadly appropriate.
Title: Re: Umineko no Naku Koro Ni + Chiru
Post by: thanosmat on January 20, 2014, 05:48:35 PM
Quote
R07's art

...is ****ing garbage.  He may be able to write and create some interesting worlds and characters, but draw them he cannot.

Having said that, the marriage between his works and DEEN becomes sadly appropriate.

Pleb who doesnt know how to appreciate the **** faces.  :D ;D
Title: Re: Umineko no Naku Koro Ni + Chiru
Post by: ImperialX on January 20, 2014, 05:56:24 PM
There is a way. Only download the arc file for voices and use the original for backgrounds and sprites.


I think that's only doable with EP1-4. With EP5-8 the patch works differently because Lib just had to put in those textboxes. I wish they just did as Levani wanted and kept everything like EP1-4...

I never played the game with the voices but from the stray vids I took a look at, I actually think that the game is simply better without voices. The characters have such colorful and distinct personalities just by the script that I find their lines more powerful when I imagine how they would sound. Not to mention how having to listen to voices is a bit awkward for reading VNs.

The voice acting is as good as it gets in my opinion. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYik3EUudiI) However, you are right in that if I were to be oven the choice of playing the PS3 version or the original PC version, I would take the original with no voice acting and no PS3 art.

Quote
R07's art

...is ****ing garbage.

R07's art is very appropriate for the series. You need to play the VN to understand.
Title: Re: Umineko no Naku Koro Ni + Chiru
Post by: TypicalIdiotFan on January 20, 2014, 06:14:00 PM
Quote
R07's art is very appropriate for the series. You need to play the VN to understand.

Yeah, hamhock hands and troll faces are SOOOOO deep.  What other people have done with his character designs are far superior.  Admittedly, he has gotten better over the years, but compared to his peers, he's still subpar.

Title: Re: Umineko no Naku Koro Ni + Chiru
Post by: hyperknees91 on January 21, 2014, 10:38:08 AM
I'm with TIF. The original art is so terrible that it just made higurashi comical to look at when I played a bit of it. Heck I had to stop playing it because how funny they looked. Umineko it would just take away from the atmosphere. It would only work when the characters are trolling, but in every other scene it would just make serious scenes look funny. I'll take generic looking over amatuer art any day. Now I got nothing against quirky art that spices things up (Forest) but it at least needs to be quality quirky art.

I can't imagine many of the scenes without voice acting being nearly as good either. The voice actors are really good at what they do and do some creative stuff that you wouldn't necessarily imagine either. Plus when you blend it with the great music it's seriously a wonderful experience.

Ryukishi really needs to take the money he's earned from both and go to a proper art school if he wants to continue to draw for his visual novels. Though I think he realized how bad he is finally and for his latest visual novel he just hired other artists to do it for him. Smart move ryukishi, smart move. 
Title: Re: Umineko no Naku Koro Ni + Chiru
Post by: thanosmat on January 21, 2014, 10:45:30 AM
I'm with TIF. The original art is so terrible that it just made higurashi comical to look at when I played a bit of it. Heck I had to stop playing it because how funny they looked. Umineko it would just take away from the atmosphere. It would only work when the characters are trolling, but in every other scene it would just make serious scenes look funny. I'll take generic looking over amatuer art any day.

I can't imagine many of the scenes without voice acting being nearly as good either. The voice actors are really good at what they do and do some creative stuff that you wouldn't necessarily imagine either. Plus when you blend it with the great music it's seriously a wonderful experience.

Ryukishi really needs to take the money he's earned from both and go to a proper art school if he wants to continue to draw for his visual novels. Though I think he realized how bad he is finally and for his latest visual novel he just hired other artists to do it for him. Smart move ryukishi, smart move. 

I read Umineko several times and I disagree. I never felt that the atmosphere was hindered by the art. But thats me.

Rose Gun Days have design from other artists, as well as R07 design.
Title: Re: Umineko no Naku Koro Ni + Chiru
Post by: hyperknees91 on January 21, 2014, 10:51:36 AM
Well I'm not saying everyone will mind the original art as obviously you two didn't. But I can guarantee you the majority wouldn't give it the time of day now that the ps3 patch is out. Heck I wouldn't even play it until it got one, because that's how much it bothered me. I'm not even that picky is the funny thing (Tsukihime doesn't even bother me that much).

Title: Re: Umineko no Naku Koro Ni + Chiru
Post by: ImperialX on January 21, 2014, 05:58:34 PM
I can't imagine many of the scenes without voice acting being nearly as good either. The voice actors are really good at what they do and do some creative stuff that you wouldn't necessarily imagine either. Plus when you blend it with the great music it's seriously a wonderful experience.

If you ask around in the Umineko community about whether the voice acting is fitting, you'll get a 50/50 split. Some people are like Aelms where they think that the voice acting actually doesn't add anything to the game. As he put it, "The characters have such colorful and distinct personalities just by the script that I find their lines more powerful when I imagine how they would sound." This is definitely something I can understand having played the game a number of times now. Quite a few voices weren't exactly fitting for the characters, especially Dlanor who is far too gentle sounding.

Like I said, if I can choose between original or PS3 version with all the updated sprites, backgrounds and voice acting, I would take the original. However I'm also grateful for the existence of the PS3 patch so that people who are picky about the art and the lack of voice acting can pick up the game anyway. 

Heck I wouldn't even play it until it got one, because that's how much it bothered me. I'm not even that picky is the funny thing (Tsukihime doesn't even bother me that much).

I promise you that you are in the minority. I was there for both the launches of the original Witch-Hunt patches and the PS3 patches. The scale of the launches were not comparable.
Title: Re: Umineko no Naku Koro Ni + Chiru
Post by: hyperknees91 on January 29, 2014, 09:02:17 PM
Well I can assume most of that was because people just really wanted to read it when it first came out (higurashi hype after all). It's such a long game so I doubt many would want to re-read it either.

Though it's possible like you said that perhaps the majority just prefer the older graphics. Idk how but I guess I'll just have to see it as a differing opinion.

Voice acting is not something I would like to do without either as the translation does not always phrase their lines in the best way. But Idk...I think if I wanted to play an unvoiced VN I would just read a book. The voices add to the game in the same way the pictures and music do if you ask me.
Title: Re: Umineko no Naku Koro Ni + Chiru
Post by: hyperknees91 on March 15, 2014, 04:26:47 PM
Almost done with this (On the last quarter of chapter 8). Been a wild ride where I think the only low points were chapter 5 and 6 as the story seemed to lose a bit of focus. Still quite good though.

Questions

Who do you guys think

Is the true culprit? I mean I guess it's between Shannon, Kyrie & Rudolf and Rosa. But I'm not too sure if this game is just trying to throw me off

Also about Beatrice

Has to be a man right? I guess they didn't want to reveal that because the shounen-ai would be kinda unappealing I guess? Because that would make the shannon-george romance shounen ai as well. I wonder what his sexual problem was though? Was he a tranny or something?
Title: Re: Umineko no Naku Koro Ni + Chiru
Post by: TypicalIdiotFan on March 15, 2014, 05:48:19 PM
Well, that's what I get for reading random spoilers.
Title: Re: Umineko no Naku Koro Ni + Chiru
Post by: MCAL on March 15, 2014, 06:12:57 PM
Also about Beatrice

Has to be a man right? I guess they didn't want to reveal that because the shounen-ai would be kinda unappealing I guess? Because that would make the shannon-george romance shounen ai as well. I wonder what his sexual problem was though? Was he a tranny or something?
Beatrice/Yasu's true gender is left ambiguous as you know. I felt Yasu was female as the more dominant personalities are female. (Beatrice for being the Golden Witch and Shannon for being the Winner in the "Duel of Love.") Anyway, Yasu I believes suffers from Gender Identity Disorder. Basically, when Natsuhi threw Yasu and the caretaker of the cliff, the fall damaged Yasu's sexual organs (Basically preventing her from developing a penis or vagina or from having breast if she was indeed female. So basically she has a body "incapable of love" (From the end of EP 7), so Yasu doesn't know his/her gender basically.
Title: Re: Umineko no Naku Koro Ni + Chiru
Post by: hyperknees91 on March 15, 2014, 06:21:44 PM
Yeah it was ambiguous. However I assumed that it would be easier for a male to put on a pair a breasts (as Shannon) then a girl to tie them down (as Lion/Kanon). Though I guess it's possible he/she has no breasts. Also I wasn't sure why the author didn't want to reveal this information, if she/he was in fact a female I would assume he would do so and there would be little problem. However Beatrice actually being male and being romanced by Battler/George might lead to some awkward feelings amongst fans possibly so he chose to left it ambiguous. Either that or he wanted the Kanon/Shannon question to linger.

Also Natsuhi refers to him/her as the "Man from 19 years ago". I'm not sure if Natsuhi knew the babies gender due to neglect though but I find that doubtful.


Though I guess that one's up for speculation really and it could go either way.

Edit:

And done. Well the ending was quite...depressing or not so depressing depending on how you look at it. I'm glad it didn't really pull key magic on me as I was kind of afraid of that. The game was good stuff, but it was superbly long and I'll probably never consider reading it again simply because of that.