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The Nihon Review Topic Discussion => Anime => Topic started by: shiijin on October 06, 2012, 05:44:24 PM

Title: Little Busters!
Post by: shiijin on October 06, 2012, 05:44:24 PM
1: i'm not sure what i was expecting. i'm having a very hard time paying attention to the story due to the horrible animation quality. i think i have to get over the fact that this is not KyoAni. i will keep watching, but only because i was told that this was one of the best Key stories made. J.C. can't mess up that badly, right?
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: leokiko. on October 06, 2012, 06:01:56 PM
Someone said this on MAL:

Little Budget!: The Animation

And I completely agree with it.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: hyperknees91 on October 06, 2012, 06:22:15 PM
1: Typical key in introducing too many characters in the first episode haha.

I liked it though, decent adaption of the source material.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: SQA on October 06, 2012, 08:04:29 PM
This wasn't a low budget affair.  It's just inside J.C. Staff's general art style.  They generally don't go with super detailed backgrounds and for smoother animation.  That's about what we got here.

Apparently it'll be "hard" to fit all of the main story line in 26 episodes.  Which raises a question of how damn long the VN takes to beat.  Anyway, it was a solid opening episode.  It'll be interesting to see where this goes.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: hyperknees91 on October 06, 2012, 08:28:00 PM
This wasn't a low budget affair.  It's just inside J.C. Staff's general art style.  They generally don't go with super detailed backgrounds and for smoother animation.  That's about what we got here.

Apparently it'll be "hard" to fit all of the main story line in 26 episodes.  Which raises a question of how damn long the VN takes to beat.  Anyway, it was a solid opening episode.  It'll be interesting to see where this goes.

uh 20-30 hours..it's not really that long.

I think they can easily do it as long as they skip most of the baseball stuff that isn't very important.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: thanosmat on October 06, 2012, 09:03:44 PM
Its 50 hours+. Longer than Clannad.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Reckoner on October 06, 2012, 09:24:41 PM
Animation quality is perfectly fine. It's not outstanding, it's not Kyoani, but honestly what would you expect? It's definitely above average. There is no budget issues. This isn't Muv Luv Total Quality.

Its 50 hours+. Longer than Clannad.

I believe that's only the EX version and if you include play time for all the mini games. Text wise it's not as big.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: SQA on October 06, 2012, 09:28:02 PM
Animation quality is perfectly fine. It's not outstanding, it's not Kyoani, but honestly what would you expect? It's definitely above average. There is no budget issues. This isn't Muv Luv Total Quality.

Its 50 hours+. Longer than Clannad.

I believe that's only the EX version and if you include play time for all the mini games. Text wise it's not as big.

I laughed pretty hard at "Total Quality" for all the wrong reasons. 
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: thanosmat on October 06, 2012, 10:11:00 PM
Animation quality is perfectly fine. It's not outstanding, it's not Kyoani, but honestly what would you expect? It's definitely above average. There is no budget issues. This isn't Muv Luv Total Quality.

Its 50 hours+. Longer than Clannad.

I believe that's only the EX version and if you include play time for all the mini games. Text wise it's not as big.

In the script size and quantity of words, Little Busters wins in both cases.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: hyperknees91 on October 06, 2012, 10:29:55 PM
Once again, that's only the EX version (probably because the Saya path is long or something).

I'd say the plot is only slightly longer than Kanon.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Sorrows Neptune on October 06, 2012, 10:59:58 PM
1:

Seeing how I had no knowledge of the VN before hand (aside from it being from Key,) it was pretty cool when the characters just spontaneously decided to form a baseball team. I'm definitely looking forward to this series.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: thanosmat on October 06, 2012, 11:12:31 PM
Once again, that's only the EX version (probably because the Saya path is long or something).

I'd say the plot is only slightly longer than Kanon.

Where it is said that it is only in the EX version?
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: hyperknees91 on October 06, 2012, 11:38:06 PM
 The total word count in Ecstasy exceeds that of Clannad by about 4,000 words, making it Key's longest work, and carries so much data that Ecstasy was released on two DVDs instead of one for the original release.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Busters!
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Fumoffu!! on October 07, 2012, 04:54:02 AM
I like the look of this somewhat, but the characters are lovably retarded.

Well, I'll see.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: TypicalIdiotFan on October 08, 2012, 03:05:36 AM
1:

I'll be blunt:  if I didn't know this was a work by Key, I'd have turned this off halfway through the first episode.  Is it just the first episode and am I probably not thinking clearly?  Yep.  Doesn't change that this first episode felt stupid as hell.  And, yes, there is something missing from any Key work not being done by Kyoto Animation.  It will be unfair to JC Staff, but I can't help feeling that way.

Meh.  This is why I don't like hype, dammit.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: leokiko. on October 08, 2012, 10:17:53 AM
^this is a Key work, what were you expecting from the first episode? Did you expect Clannad to be so good when it started?

Just so you know, the hype went considerably down due to J.C Staff's involvement. I agree with you though that this episode was fairly underwhelming and had a lack of direction, it was word by word with the Visual Novel, but with shitty character designs/animation. It pleased old-school fans but it was not good fror newcomers.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: TypicalIdiotFan on October 08, 2012, 03:15:15 PM
Kanon and Clannad both grabbed me from the beginning.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: leokiko. on October 08, 2012, 03:39:05 PM
I have nothing to say besides that the beginning of LB! is indeed underwhelming, so stick with it for a few more episodes. Although, they are starting it with the weakest route, Komari, so I could easily bet that you will drop this soon.

I played only 1 route, but not the real one that they say it's the best , Refrain, which is like the ~After Story~ part of Clannad. I will only watch the first route. If the staff and J.C Staff screws up(the lack of direction on this episode and the annoying change of BGM's between scenes are not good indicators of quality) I will drop it and play the game.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: hyperknees91 on October 08, 2012, 07:05:41 PM
difference with little busters and clannad and kanon and air is that they balanced drama and comedy even just a little bit at the beginning (with more focus on comedy of course), while little busters is just straight up comedy until the individual girl routes begin.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: AC on October 08, 2012, 08:06:19 PM
1:

Well... that didn't go too bad.

The first episode went kinda well for me. Not exactly the best first episode I've seen, but like most Key titles, they never start off with an amazing episode. Animation-wise, it's not exactly Kyoto Animation standard animation but it's not horrible either. It's like on a third tier with Kyoto Animation at number one and P.A. Works at number two when it comes to slice of life. I have to admit that it wasn't the most fun episode I could have hoped from the material it has, and I think I know why...

I'll be blunt:  if I didn't know this was a work by Key, I'd have turned this off halfway through the first episode.  Is it just the first episode and am I probably not thinking clearly?  Yep.  Doesn't change that this first episode felt stupid as hell.  And, yes, there is something missing from any Key work not being done by Kyoto Animation.  It will be unfair to JC Staff, but I can't help feeling that way.

I think J.C. Staff can't do what KyoAni can: giving its series more flair. I think most of the credits we give to KyoAni has been on the production values and aesthetic capacity, but what I think many people don't give credit for is the resultant flair that renders the show more enjoyable. The same thing happened for Hyouka: one of the major reasons the show proved to be better than originally thought was because of KyoAni. And it's always tempting to imagine how good it would have been if only it had produced this show instead of J.C. Staff... or even P.A. Works.

But I won't drop this show: it's way too high-profile for me to give it a pass, and the light-hearted story (well, at least for now) is enjoyable enough for me.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: AC on October 14, 2012, 07:46:31 AM
2:

There are those who would get a heart attack from watching Kamikita, and then there are those who get annoyed instead. Sadly, I belong to the latter group of people. She's purely moe material... on a verge of being an imbecile (no offense, though).

Two things make me wonder now: 1) why is Rin so awkward around Kitakami? Is it just because she's not used to having female friends? 2) how does Naoe's nacrolepsy affect the people around him? What is the agenda for this?
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: SQA on October 14, 2012, 03:13:00 PM
On #2: Narcolepsy is one of those stupidly easy story telling devices.  It's an instant "OMG DRAMA!!!" button that can be pressed any time its needed.  Though if they keep it consistent in utilization, it can work okay.  It also allows for quick time-skips, in story, if the entire series is done from Riki's point of view.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: ImperialX on October 16, 2012, 12:47:17 AM
I played only 1 route, but not the real one that they say it's the best

You need to play through every route before you can play the real route, and there is a reason for doing so.

Given that Little Busters is only two-cour, I have already lost faith that this will be a good adaptation. Even 50 episodes is not anywhere near enough enough to cover Little Busters properly, let alone 24. Just play the visual novel to the end - I don't think you'll regret it. It is definitely the best work KEY has ever done.

Even Clannad, with it's 50 episodes, had to drop kyou, tomoyo and most of the after story arcs altogether. Little Busters is not only longer than Clannad, but considering the way the story works, I simply cannot see how they can animate the whole thing to a satisfactory level without dropping ALL of the side heroine arcs and heading straight for Refrain.

Of course...that would still be terrible, since the side arcs is what gives Refrain its emotional impact.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: leokiko. on October 16, 2012, 12:53:09 AM
I played only 1 route, but not the real one that they say it's the best

You need to play through every route before you can play the real route, and there is a reason for doing so.

Given that Little Busters is only two-cour, I have already lost faith that this will be a good adaptation. Even 50 episodes is barely enough to cover Little Busters properly, let alone 24. Just play the visual novel to the end - I don't think you'll regret it. It is definitely the best work KEY has ever done.
There's always a chance for a second season, specially since this is J.C Staff. Or do you think it's impossible to cover it all with 1 season of 24 episodes + another with 13?

Anyway, I was hoping to see the reactions of the fans before continuing the VN. The second episode was surprisingly enjoyable, though the animation is still awful.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: ImperialX on October 16, 2012, 12:58:47 AM
There's always a chance for a second season, specially since this is J.C Staff. Or do you think it's impossible to cover it all with 1 season of 24 episodes + another with 13?

Anyway, I was hoping to see the reactions of the fans before continuing the VN. The second episode was surprisingly enjoyable, though the animation is still awful.

Let's just put it this way - you will need 100 episodes at least if you actually want to tell Little Buster's story in its entirety.
Little Busters doesn't work like most visual novels. Every character's routes are actually alternate universes (kind of like Steins;Gate), and all the experiences that the player gathers in these different routes are combined together in one final "true route" called Refrain, which is the true ending.

The only way that this is going to work in two-cours is if they drop every single route and go straight into Refrain. However, if they do that, they will lose much of the emotional impact that Refrain generates due to the experiences you gathered from individual character routes. That's why I was convinced Little Busters wouldn't actually get an anime. It's a really tough title to adapt.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: leokiko. on October 16, 2012, 01:07:58 AM
Let's just put it this way - you will need 100 episodes at least if you actually want to tell Little Buster's story in its entirety.
Little Busters doesn't work like most visual novels. Every character's routes are actually alternate universes (kind of like Steins;Gate), and all the experiences that the player gathers in these different routes are combined together in one final "true route" called Refrain, which is the true ending.

The only way that this is going to work in two-cours is if they drop every single route and go straight into Refrain. However, if they do that, they will lose much of the emotional impact that Refrain generates due to the experiences you gathered from individual character routes. That's why I was convinced Little Busters wouldn't actually get an anime. It's a really tough title to adapt.
Wow, I truly didn't know that. That does make me rethink a bit about what I'm going to do. I might just play a few more routes to see what you are talking about. Thanks for the info.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: ImperialX on October 16, 2012, 01:10:34 AM
Wow, I truly didn't know that. That does make me rethink a bit about what I'm going to do. I might just play a few more routes to see what you are talking about. Thanks for the info.

Thing is, you have to play every single character route before you can unlock Refrain, and I think you should understand why given what I just told you. That takes a long time - around 70 hours for me, and I'm a pretty fast reader. There are too many characters in Little Busters. =/

Are you an experienced VN player? Playing a 100+ hour VN like Little Busters with no prior experience can be daunting. That's like 300 anime episodes in length of time.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: leokiko. on October 16, 2012, 01:18:24 AM
Thing is, you have to play every single character route before you can unlock Refrain, and I think you should understand why given what I just told you. That takes a long time - around 70 hours for me, and I'm a pretty fast reader. There are too many characters in Little Busters. =/

Are you an experienced VN player? Playing a 100+ hour VN like Little Busters with no prior experience can be daunting. That's like 300 anime episodes in length of time.
I've only played Fate Stay Night and a bit of Ever17(which I will come back to soon), so yea inexperienced. But time isn't really a problem for me if the VN is enjoyable, which LB! very much is.

Which route is the longest one you would say? I don't mind putting a lot of time in it but if I'm gonna go back to it I might as well play the shortest one. I only finished Kud's route so far and it didn't take too long. I was at the beginning of Komari's route but stopped when the anime started.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: ImperialX on October 16, 2012, 02:05:45 AM
I've only played Fate Stay Night and a bit of Ever17(which I will come back to soon), so yea inexperienced. But time isn't really a problem for me if the VN is enjoyable, which LB! very much is.

Which route is the longest one you would say? I don't mind putting a lot of time in it but if I'm gonna go back to it I might as well play the shortest one. I only finished Kud's route so far and it didn't take too long. I was at the beginning of Komari's route but stopped when the anime started.

Ever17 is one of the most epic things ever written by mankind. However, you have to play through all 4 routes, and then the true end will be unlocked. It keeps its cards extremely hidden until the final arc where it will blow your mind. It works in a way very similar to Little Busters. You DO need a walkthrough for Ever17. It's only 30 hours ish too - much shorter than Fate/stay night if you played all 3 arcs there. I recommend you play through that ASAP. Let's not derail this thread, and talk about Ever17 in its own thread which Sorrow created years ago. http://www.nihonreview.com/forum/index.php?topic=804.15

On the contrary, there are many instances LB gets boring. It's because it's so long, and you can definitely lose interest quite easily.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: SQA on October 16, 2012, 04:13:04 AM
On the anime, as a non-VN player, I'm liking it quite a bit.  The humor mostly works and it's absurd enough to keep your interest.  It'll probably pale compared to the VN, given it's length and regard, but that doesn't mean it's bad.  This is a different medium, after all.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: TypicalIdiotFan on October 16, 2012, 12:28:13 PM
Imperial, do remember that even if you're a fast reader, people can often speak faster than words can be read.  Dialogue can be handled rather quickly.  It's the "events" that make things work or don't work.

And, if I may add, being a veteran of several other adaptations of Key works, there is a TON OF SHIT that can be cut out and not matter.  Like, oh, half the "cute" moments that any of the girls do as a result of the main male character teasing them?  Aside from "awww, she's so moe!" the **** do those scenes add to anything?  The fact of the matter is, a lot of the dialogue is filler and can be surgically removed.  I'm not saying all of it can be, because you still need those moments of non-drama to make the drama work (or you end up with Kimi-Nozo's adaptation), but you can still ax a ton of shit.

Now, of course, I say "surgically removed", which implies that a practiced and skillful hand is required.  How much faith do you think I have in JC Staff?  Go on, ask!
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: ImperialX on October 16, 2012, 07:01:23 PM
Imperial, do remember that even if you're a fast reader, people can often speak faster than words can be read.  Dialogue can be handled rather quickly.  It's the "events" that make things work or don't work.

I think I read faster than they talk. They never finish talking before I finish reading the sentence, if that's what you mean. I think if you actually wait for them to finish talking, the game will take towards 150 hours...

And, if I may add, being a veteran of several other adaptations of Key works, there is a TON OF SHIT that can be cut out and not matter.  Like, oh, half the "cute" moments that any of the girls do as a result of the main male character teasing them?  Aside from "awww, she's so moe!" the **** do those scenes add to anything?  The fact of the matter is, a lot of the dialogue is filler and can be surgically removed.  I'm not saying all of it can be, because you still need those moments of non-drama to make the drama work (or you end up with Kimi-Nozo's adaptation), but you can still ax a ton of shit.

Precisely. That's why I said you need 100 episodes, because if you actually animate every single scene from the visual novel, it will take far, far more than 100 episodes. What I'm saying is that you need 100 episodes to animate every character route to a fairly watchable level, and then refrain which follows after all the side routes. Am I wrong? Of course you can axe a ton of stuff that doesn't matter. I even said that Little Busters can get boring to play at times because as you said, there is just so much of those "cute" moments that it gets tedious to see them so often.

Now, of course, I say "surgically removed", which implies that a practiced and skillful hand is required.  How much faith do you think I have in JC Staff?  Go on, ask!

Do I really need to ask this when we both already know the answer? :P
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: leokiko. on October 16, 2012, 07:31:52 PM
As far as I'm concerned, J.C Staff is only doing Sakurasou this season.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: hyperknees91 on October 16, 2012, 07:43:33 PM
I think Imperial is exaggerating a little. The game is lengthy but it's no fate stay night or muv-luv alternative.

Quite honestly I only care that they do Kud and Haruka's route properly, that and refrain...if they rush the rest I'm not gonna really mind much (because lets face it the other routers are considerably weaker in execution).
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: ImperialX on October 16, 2012, 08:06:20 PM
The game is lengthy but it's no fate stay night or muv-luv alternative.

I really think it took me longer to play through Little Busters than F/SN or Muv-Luv Alternative. Unless you're including Extra and Unlimited as well, in which case it would be around the same amount of time.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Reckoner on October 16, 2012, 09:27:17 PM
Keep in mind they will probably add extra cours. That's what happened with Clannad.

Honestly JC staff is no kyoani in terms of visuals, but their adaption of the material is pretty spot on IMO. Whether you like the content of the source material is a whole different matter.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: TypicalIdiotFan on October 17, 2012, 02:36:11 AM
Oh yeah...

2:

Holy retard moe, Batman.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: shiijin on October 17, 2012, 08:02:17 AM
2: The Moe meter is off the charts in this one. I do like the fact that everything feels like it has slowed down. The gags are either hitting more than missing, or it's just growing on me.

I dislike that they chose narcolepsy as the "mysterious unknown disease" trope. wouldn't Riki exhibit other symptoms such as imsomnia, sleeping on the desk in school, always looking tired, and so on? They haven't hinted at the narcolepsy previously at all, and that makes me feel like its tacked on. Something so integral to the MC's life should at least show a little bit, right?
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Aelms on October 17, 2012, 06:32:02 PM
2. The adaptation shifted the focus from always being from the perspective of Riki and more towards portraying Little Busters as a whole. I guess the hints were dropped in favour of introducing the characters and moving the plot along at a faster pace.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: thanosmat on October 18, 2012, 11:12:07 AM
Quote
Precisely. That's why I said you need 100 episodes, because if you actually animate every single scene from the visual novel, it will take far, far more than 100 episodes. What I'm saying is that you need 100 episodes to animate every character route to a fairly watchable level, and then refrain which follows after all the side routes. Am I wrong? Of course you can axe a ton of stuff that doesn't matter. I even said that Little Busters can get boring to play at times because as you said, there is just so much of those "cute" moments that it gets tedious to see them so often.

"After a first run through of the game I thought 100 episodes might be required to get everything in, but if we were thorough 200 would be necessary. If you make it into an anime, that’s just how much volume it has.
Of course, at some point it will not be possible to continue, so there still needs to be a cut-off… though unfortunately we’ll be leaving plenty of scenes fans will really want to see."

http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2012/10/18/little-busters-needs-200-episodes/
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: ImperialX on October 18, 2012, 06:07:58 PM
"After a first run through of the game I thought 100 episodes might be required to get everything in, but if we were thorough 200 would be necessary. If you make it into an anime, that’s just how much volume it has. Of course, at some point it will not be possible to continue, so there still needs to be a cut-off… though unfortunately we’ll be leaving plenty of scenes fans will really want to see."

http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2012/10/18/little-busters-needs-200-episodes/

Yeah, that's what I said. Even 100 episodes isn't truly enough to show all of the materials. You will need 200. If they do something like 24 episodes, they have to head straight into Refrain. I'm guessing they'll do that. After all, that's the thing most fans want to see.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: AC on October 20, 2012, 08:52:29 PM
3:

Hmm, Naoe's narcolepsy subplot seems to be put on the sidelines for now. Not sure why the story does so when it only introduced it on the previous episode. For now, I'm just going to enjoy Kurugaya the Troll Princess. A princess enjoying tea like royalty, on rickety furniture... huh, classic.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Sorrow-kun on October 21, 2012, 02:13:12 AM
Eps 1-3

Usually I'm all over Key stuff, but this show is a giant pile of "meh".  Worse than that, actually.  I don't really find it entertaining at all.  These characters are just so annoying, and the comedy feels like it's just trying to ramp everything up to the nth degree.  It's like a Kishi Seiji anime on steroids.  In fact, Kishi Seiji would have been a better choice of director for this considering the good work he did last season on Humanity Has Declined.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Reckoner on October 21, 2012, 06:50:02 PM
^

Personally I feel LB! has the strongest start of any KEY work and altogether has a more likable cast than any previous one too. Then again this is coming from someone who pretty much disliked Clannad and even dropped after story before the last episode.

Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Sorrow-kun on October 28, 2012, 05:18:56 PM
Ep 4

That was a little better, but it's still not exactly screaming that this has potential.  I'm guessing this is setting up the start of the Komari arc which also implies the show is going to be fairly (if not strictly) modular, which is generally how Key works are adapted (in fact, I can't think of a Key anime that wasn't).

I think Myst's theory (http://altairandvega.wordpress.com/2012/10/26/colloquium-little-busters-episode-3/) that Kyousuke will be removed from the picture at some point to give Riki room to grow as a character makes a lot of sense, so I strongly expect it to happen. 
It does speak to a weakness of Riki's character at this point though, and why the story feels rather directionless.  In prior Key works, the male leads generally drove where the story went.  Riki just seems to be floating around on whatever whims the other characters around him have.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Fumoffu!! on October 28, 2012, 06:07:37 PM
This show be so meh. The girls are so insufferably retarded, look at this chart:

(http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/5053/cutevsretardedness.png)

Now, obviously the best place to be would be that center line, however many of the girls in Little Busters, the worst of which I've depcited with the green line, oes way past this optimum so that she is not that cute at all, and is in fact rather annoying. I was debating whether to include a scale past 10, to depict minus cuteness, as to be so irritating that they have no positives at all, thankfully all the girls manage to avoid it for now.

I might also add that setting 5/10 on the retarded scale (whatever that may be) to be the optimum was arbitrary, if you believe that the optimum lies elsewhere, please tell me, so long as you've backed it up with some mathematical equations.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: AC on October 29, 2012, 07:28:48 AM
4:

Hmm, not sure if Little Busters! have what it takes to pull off something melodramatic. I share the same sentiments with Sorrow-kun: the male lead simply floats in this show, and doesn't really lead the story as what other male leads in previous Key works do. And I don't really get the Egg-Chick-Hen story; I know it's sad but I just don't understand the logic behind it.

Or maybe I'm just tired.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: TypicalIdiotFan on November 02, 2012, 03:23:30 PM
4:

Okay, so, Kud is from Finland, and apparently has a complex about her English speaking ability.  Why the hell not.

As for the rest, pay attention that egg -> chick -> hen story.  Key loves doing this; they love throwing in some whimsical story that seems to be just that, when it is actually important to what is going on around everybody.  If I had to guess, I would say that the point of the story is that we're born, we're innocent, we're childish, we grow up, and we forget that we were once innocent.  It's one of those "adults forget how to live" kinds of stories, especially when they become parents.  Considering Komari's problem with not knowing her brother, the idea of forgetting the past would seem to hit her the hardest.

Either that, or the story is a reflection of something far more sinister about the world of Little Busters.  Like, none of this is real, these aren't their real lives, but nobody can remember where they came from, kinds of things.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Sorrow-kun on November 03, 2012, 06:50:44 PM
Ep 5

The thing that annoys me is how simplistic the character interactions are.  It's kinda like everyone is handling everyone else with kid gloves.  Everyone is too damn nice to each other and the only exception to that are the unimportant rivalry relationships Masato has with Kengo and Yuiko.  Take this episode.  Komari asks Riki on a date and the whole time Riki seems more interested in Komari's brother than he does in Komari.  And to me that's just a consequence of how shallow Komari's character is.  She "smiles like sunshine" and there's a mystery about the fate of her brother.  What else is there to her character?

Also, her family are a bunch of dicks if they didn't bother to take the time to explain to her that her brother is dead.  I mean, obviously it's hard to deal with death, particularly at that age, but by going to such lengths to hide it from her makes it needlessly complicated when she inevitably does find out the truth.  Why put everyone through that pain for an unnecessarily protracted amount of time?
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: hyperknees91 on November 03, 2012, 07:27:11 PM
Yeah Komari and Rin are easily the weakest characters in the VN. Glad they are getting through her route first, as it's just kinda meh.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: AC on November 03, 2012, 08:10:47 PM
5:

I'll have to agree with Sorrow-kun: the characters are kinda weak and it's equally the same for their interactions. The melodramatic direction of the story is the same as every other Key titles, so the only way for Little Busters to match up with the likes of Clannad and Kanon, then it has to step up with the characterization and chemistry. Rather than fleshing out the characters and giving them more depth, the show simply portray them as figures with stories. And because of them, I find it hard to relate to them on an emotional level.

I wonder how would KyoAni do this show had it produce it instead of J.C. Staff. Would things turn out very differently then...?
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Aelms on November 03, 2012, 10:44:55 PM
Even within the Visual Novel itself, I have to say that Komari's route was a particularly weak route that lacked the characterisation to make her a sympathetic character. I found myself confused more than anything else when her troubles became apparent. However, I think the problem itself is that the character routes as a whole serve as a precursor of sorts, expanding the world here and there.

@ AC

I think the approach that KyoAni might've taken was to up the romantic aspect of the relationship. This would lead to a few liberties with how they plan the series overall but it would've definitely lead to some interesting speculation.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Reckoner on November 03, 2012, 10:50:31 PM
The sheer amount of expectation and hype for this project I think is hurting people's viewpoints here. Clannad was even more dull than this, with characters who acted ever dumber in some ways, but I don't remember the same reaction being given there. I find the characters interactions in Little Busters to be much more fun and energetic generally actually. The only thing weaker here is that Riki doesn't have Tomoya's charisma as a lead, but in that regard we have Kyousuke and ultimately there is a point to the way Riki is characterized in the grand scheme of things.

Need  I remind anybody about how terrible of a character Fuko was? Her arc was really long too.

And honestly, it's harder to be more faithful to the source than JC staff has been so far. They might even be too faithful in some regards. The only difference KyoAni would have provided is mostly a visual impact, which is important in some ways, but c'mon now.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Aelms on November 03, 2012, 11:11:34 PM
@ Reckoner

Fuuko arc was wonderful. You should feel ashamed for not baww-ing buckets of tears for it.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: TypicalIdiotFan on November 10, 2012, 03:03:38 AM
5:

Hey, they practiced baseball.  Oh and some other stuff happened.

I was okay with letting one bit of "kiddy panties" humor through, but now that we've done this twice, I'm starting to question the moral integrity of the creators here.  We also get our first instance where I REALLY miss Kyoto Animation.  Komari remembers, breaks down, and cries, and I kept thinking to myself.... oh hell no.  No no no.  This is pa-thet-ic.  The blank stare was okay; nice and creepy, but the rest?  Slump, one hand to face, BARELY any movement at all.  If this were Kyoto Animation, we'd have had 400 frame per second, tear streaming, multiple eye wiping, head shaking, wailing, gooeyness.

Tsk tsk tsk.  No emotional punch.  Felt zip.  Which, btw Reckoner, automatically makes this worse than the Fuuko arc, because by the time that hideous piece of background music with all the ****terrible engrish starts up at Fuuko's sister's wedding, I'm about ready to clutch my Kleenex box and bake cookies.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Reckoner on November 10, 2012, 03:31:15 AM
The only thing I felt at the end of the Fuko arc was the need to trash my monitor.

Like they say, NEVER GO FULL RETARD.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: leokiko. on November 10, 2012, 09:49:21 AM
5:

We also get our first instance where I REALLY miss Kyoto Animation.  Komari remembers, breaks down, and cries, and I kept thinking to myself.... oh hell no.  No no no.  This is pa-thet-ic.  The blank stare was okay; nice and creepy, but the rest?  Slump, one hand to face, BARELY any movement at all.  If this were Kyoto Animation, we'd have had 400 frame per second, tear streaming, multiple eye wiping, head shaking, wailing, gooeyness.
I don't think you will get through this anime if you keep thinking like that. Just saying.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: TypicalIdiotFan on November 10, 2012, 04:23:39 PM
Because presentation is not important?
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: hyperknees91 on November 10, 2012, 04:39:14 PM
I kinda agree, the presentation is rather weak in bits. It kinda just begs you to play the visual novel instead if they aren't going to put that much effort into it (which is the whole reason to watch it in the first place).

Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: leokiko. on November 10, 2012, 05:19:59 PM
Because presentation is not important?
Because thinking of how would KyoAni would do it will only make J.C Staff's looks even shittier.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: AC on November 10, 2012, 06:42:47 PM
6:

Wow, that was... awfully underwhelming.

I tried not thinking about how KyoAni would have done things better, and base the above purely on the show's merits. As a Key series, Komari's arc was meant to be a tearjerker but I didn't even feel sad for a mere second. It simply felt like there was a problem and Naoe fixed it with a simple solution. Period. And worse of all, it seems that nobody thought that Komari's problem was that serious and hence even went along with it instead of trying to fix it. Didn't even one person who knew about Komari's problem try to acknowledge the problem? Seriously?

It was a terribly weak arc. How disappointing.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: TypicalIdiotFan on November 10, 2012, 07:21:41 PM
Because thinking of how would KyoAni would do it will only make J.C Staff's looks even shittier.

I said this before, but fair or unfair this is going to be compared to previous Key works adapted by Kyoto Animation.  But even if we ignore that unfairness for a second, there's more here than a simple comparison wrong with how JC Staff is presenting this show.  There doesn't appear to be any love here by the director; no creativity, no visual tricks, no dialogue lifting, no superb voice acting.  There is nothing that makes Little Busters! stand out.  Looking over director Yamakawa's previous works, I'm also not seeing a ton of experience at handling a big project like this (and I liked Hatsukoi Limited).
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: hyperknees91 on November 10, 2012, 07:41:46 PM
And it's not like kyoto animation does everything better. After all the AIR movie is arguably better than the tv series.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Aelms on November 10, 2012, 09:21:44 PM
I never thought that Key was that good with the side routes of their stories. Air was good only because of the main scenario and Clannad/Kanon had their fair share of bland routes. That being said, most of the Clannad routes had little relevance to the main scenario but still developed Nagisa and Tomoya's relationship. Little Busters is doing the same and is dropping hints left and right.

I'm surprised that so much effort seems to be put in Sakurasou no Pet Kanojo by J.C. Staff when everything just looks dumbed down here. Perhaps they want to leve the bulk of the budget for later routes? It seems unbelievable for them to skimp out on animating a Key game.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Sorrow-kun on November 10, 2012, 09:49:05 PM
Some of the Clannad side routes were pretty weak, but I disagree when it comes to Kanon.  All the routes were fairly well done.

Ep 6

This, though.  Underwhelming doesn't even start to cover it.  Never mind the presentation and J.C. Staff's execution, this story arc just seemed to suck, and to me the root of it is that Komari's character is just so shallow.  Nothing I've seen during this arc has changed my opinion of her.  This is one of the most forgettable arcs I've ever seen in Key adaptation, tied closely with Misae's from Clannad After Story.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Sorrows Neptune on November 11, 2012, 11:17:25 AM
6:

This is one of those episodes that made me scream "Why is no one taking her to a psychologist?!" Komari becomes a total mess of a person whenever someone around her dies, and apparently her family just sidesteps around it? And it's all magically fixed by Riki giving her a picture book and telling her to face reality? How unrealistic, and even anticlimactic.

That being said, I actually thought this was marginally better than the last two episodes. At least the drama was more interesting.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Reckoner on November 12, 2012, 05:31:04 PM
Well whether or not you take issue with the execution, it doesn't change the fact that Komari's route, VN or anime, just isn't good.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: hyperknees91 on November 13, 2012, 02:31:36 PM
Considering her and Yuiko's route were written by the same person, that's hardly a surprise. But yeah the remaining characters shall be fairly stronger.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Fumoffu!! on November 18, 2012, 04:29:26 AM
7:

This new character looks poor. She's not annoying in the same way Komari was, but she's still pretty bad. She reaps what sows, however the way they made the student council members act made her actually seem hard done by. This is just so goddamn poor.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: AC on November 18, 2012, 07:19:13 AM
7:

Rather than calling themselves Little Busters, I think they should call themselves Little Idiots. Especially Inohara; the guy is so stupid that it's not even funny.

I don't get Saigusa. I know that she's meant to be the Little Rascal, but I find her simply flat. It's not like Bart Simpson; she has zero character, just like Komari. In fact, that's the biggest problem with Little Busters: all the characters have no character, and hence I don't really give a damn for any of them.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Sorrow-kun on November 18, 2012, 04:06:15 PM
Ep 7

I feel like this anime is trying too hard to be inoffensive.  To me, that's why it's so boring.  These characters barely feel human.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: TypicalIdiotFan on November 19, 2012, 06:28:31 PM
7:

Oh goody, another show where the student council / disciplinary committee is run by people who are too serious to be believed.

What was up with the philosophical excuse making regarding Saigusa winning those drinks?  So what if she did hit the jackpot four times in a row and it isn't fair to other people who work hard.  Life sucks.  Sometimes those who deserve shit the least get by the easiest.  You can be pissed off all you want at the randomness of probability, but it doesn't do you any good.  Bringing someone's good fortune down because you have some idealistic approach regarding equality of results is just repugnant.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: AC on November 24, 2012, 06:48:12 PM
8:

I can't help but feel that Little Busters! should be entitled Little Rascals! instead... the problem is, they're not even "rascal-y" enough to be called so. Why am I watching a show about kids being kids...?
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Fumoffu!! on November 24, 2012, 07:46:20 PM
8:

I can't help but feel that Little Busters! should be entitled Little Rascals! instead... the problem is, they're not even "rascal-y" enough to be called so. Why am I watching a show about kids being kids...?
Because you are incredibly bored.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Sorrow-kun on December 01, 2012, 09:11:27 PM
Ep 9

Maybe a laugh track would help this show be funnier.  No wait, hear me out.  Its sense of humour is obnoxious enough as is, so they may as well go full bore.

Also, did anyone ask how the writer of the Lennon letter knew there'd be something wrong at the cafeteria?  Because I can't remember if anyone asked.  If they did, maybe they should have asked it another three or four times.  Y'know, to be a little more clear.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: AC on December 01, 2012, 10:15:44 PM
9:

So... Rin and Sasami were fighting over mushy food. Really? It's like seeing two kids fighting over whether chunky or smooth peanut butter is better. That's just retarded. And since every character in this show is retarded, then of course they wouldn't ask how the letter writer would know about the cafeteria problem.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: leokiko. on December 01, 2012, 10:16:09 PM
I'm sorta curious about ImperialX's opinion on the adaptation so far, as one who played it all.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: hyperknees91 on December 02, 2012, 12:06:11 PM
I don't think it quite works as well as the game, because little busters was never written to really flow well together but they are doing a reasonable job with the material so far.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Reckoner on December 02, 2012, 09:18:40 PM
Well I find it amusing that people are complaining that the characters are acting childlike because I think that's precisely the point :p. Certainly such interactions may not be that amusing to some, but I think it is worth mentioning that this is a work that is more innocent in tone and feeling that other KEY works. With the core of the show being focused on the bonds of friendship, I think the idea here is to create that sort of lively, fun environment of this group of friends which our main character Riki has expressed fondness for repeatedly.

KEY comedy can be hit or miss though for people. Personally I do find LB more funny than other KEY works, and I've never had a hard time enjoying KEY comedy (Usually it's the drama they have more issues with for me IMO).
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: SQA on December 03, 2012, 06:39:45 PM
I just find most of the episodes rather boring, to be honest.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: TypicalIdiotFan on December 04, 2012, 08:43:56 PM
9:

Quote
I just find most of the episodes rather boring, to be honest.

Well this episode sure was.  Yeah, Riki is waking up to the weirdness of the Lennon letters, but that was the only meaningful thing that happened.  Oh, and he narc'd out again.  Whoopdeedoo.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Sorrows Neptune on December 04, 2012, 10:05:45 PM
9:

I honestly forgot that he even had narcolepsy. It's so irrelevant to the story right now.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Sorrows Neptune on December 09, 2012, 12:01:44 PM
10:

This episode was surprisingly okay. Nishizono is a much more believable character than most of the other cast (which isn't saying much), as her situation isn't too overblown, and we actually get an idea of how she feels about herself (unlike the other anti-social character, Rin, whose social anxiety just seems like a bad joke.) Plus she doesn't act like a five year old.

Although I'm sure Little Busters! will screw up anyways and give us a foolishly contrived reason for why she's anti-social.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: TypicalIdiotFan on December 22, 2012, 04:48:50 PM
11:

Dribbling my finger repeatedly over my bottom lip.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Sorrow-kun on December 23, 2012, 03:17:14 AM
Ep 12

Oh God, that just took forever to get to the damn point.  The pacing of this show is just horrible.  Utterly horrible.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: AC on December 23, 2012, 05:13:26 AM
12:

Apart from the Nishizono arc, once the Little Busters team is complete, I'm not sure where the story is going to go from there on. Maybe it can explore the other characters since their background aren't explored as of yet, or maybe we see more of Naoe's story. Or maybe we just see them playing house more or do kiddish things for eternity.

Seriously, there was so much hubbub even before the show aired, and now I seldom see people even comment about it on Twitter. Maybe nobody talks about it since it's quite horrible... funny yet sad.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: AC on January 05, 2013, 07:52:22 PM
13:

For a minute, the show was trying to pull off a Fuko arc. Doesn't quite seem to be the case~

But you know what an example of bad narrative here is? Just when Nishizono's secret was revealed, Naoe's narcolepsy kicked in. Way too conveniently, I would say. Not really sure what's going on with the whole story, but I'm still thinking if this is going the same way as the Fuko arc in Clannad. And man, that whole caressing thing was disturbing... and jarring.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Sorrow-kun on January 05, 2013, 08:12:29 PM
Ep 13

The first thing that really annoyed me about this episode was that the explanation just posed more questions than it answered.  Are we going to get a full explanation or are they just going to leave it hanging like that and let the audience interpret it.  Wouldn't be the first time in a Key story, obviously, but this particular explanation felt so damn hand-wavey that they may as well not have had it.

The way this show ends will say a lot about just how much J.C. Staff cared about this project, because right now it doesn't feel like they care that much.  This arc almost has some interesting things going on, but the execution is just all over the place.  The entire arc seems to be a metaphor for introversion, which would just be a fascinating theme for a show like this to explore (especially given the similarities between Riki and Mio and the blatantly obvious reasons he's attracted to her), but it almost feels like J.C. Staff is going out of its way to obscure the point.

I think the reason why the Little Busters! anime stands out as so poorly executed is that is seems to have amplified all the things that Key stories constantly get criticized for while jettisoning the things that actually make them interesting and charming.  The KyoAni adaptations were renowned for their tight structure, which some people obviously complained about, but it ultimately worked.  Little Busters! feels like it has no structure at all.  And it's lost because of it.  The pacing is all over the place, it doesn't know what mood it should be going for half the time, it doesn't seem to know where it should be focusing its attention, etc, etc.  I suspect a part of it is that the source material just isn't as strong, but there are glimmers of interesting things to work with every now and then.  But right now it's pretty incoherent.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Aelms on January 05, 2013, 08:48:42 PM
The way J.C Staff chose to structure the stories just doesn't work in the grand scheme of things.

If they had chosen a Higurashi-esque approach, they could've adapted more from each story and maybe even include an element of romance that wouldn't be jarring to the overall story. With how things are going, the end result of all this mishmash will definitely be ugly.

The Mio arc is actually fairly decent as we can actually see why Riki would care for her. KyoAni adapted the Key stories smartly because each character had their opportunity to shine and even when their story arcs were over, you could still feel their presence as unique personalities rather than as yes-men. Most of the interactions with the female side characters only seem to dumb them down as the show never seems to take the opportunity to let them talk about anything substantial. The male Little Busters member are actually portrayed slightly better in this respect as even when they don't really develop individually just yet, the viewer can see how much they care for each other.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: thanosmat on January 05, 2013, 09:03:51 PM
Ep 13

The first thing that really annoyed me about this episode was that the explanation just posed more questions than it answered.  Are we going to get a full explanation or are they just going to leave it hanging like that and let the audience interpret it.  Wouldn't be the first time in a Key story, obviously, but this particular explanation felt so damn hand-wavey that they may as well not have had it.

There will be detailed explanation on Refrain. If it is will be well adapted is another story Kurugaya and Kud routes  also has these elements.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: AC on January 12, 2013, 06:38:31 PM
14:

Oh why can't this reproduce the same pathos as Kanon 2006 or Clannad. Oh why. Maybe it's because of the "I don't really give a damn" type of characters in this show...
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Sorrow-kun on January 12, 2013, 08:21:45 PM
Ep 14

Points for trying I guess. Suspension of disbelief required.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Reckoner on January 15, 2013, 03:37:21 PM
To dispel the myth that no one cares about Little Busters! anymore. Here are the volume 1 sales for it so far.

*5, 11,036 *1 Little Busters!

Pretty good for a supposed hack job studio. Of course I also think Little Busters easily outclasses Clannad in most departments besides visuals, so glad to see it is getting some success over there, despite all the "waaaah no kyoani" complaints.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Fumoffu!! on January 15, 2013, 04:43:37 PM
To dispel the myth that no one cares about Little Busters! anymore. Here are the volume 1 sales for it so far.

*5, 11,036 *1 Little Busters!

Pretty good for a supposed hack job studio. Of course I also think Little Busters easily outclasses Clannad in most departments besides visuals, so glad to see it is getting some success over there, despite all the "waaaah no kyoani" complaints.
Guess J.C. Staff were right to not allocate much budget to the show. If they get the sales regardless, why spend the extra money after all?
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: TypicalIdiotFan on January 15, 2013, 05:57:00 PM
How much of that was preorder sales, Reckoner?  Horizon had almost 20k units sold before the second season even aired.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: ImperialX on January 15, 2013, 06:27:52 PM
How much of that was preorder sales, Reckoner?

The numbers shown is pre-order sales for volume 1, as of the release date on 26 December 2012. It's a very poor number given the immense popularity of the franchise. Even a new franchise without any prior fan-base like chu2koi did better, if that says anything.

For comparison, the CLANNAD anime sold 27,834 units with volume 1, and Little Busters! has a much larger fanbase than CLANNAD. It also outsold CLANNAD in terms of visual novel sales. There is no excuse for the anime doing this poorly in comparison.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Fumoffu!! on January 15, 2013, 06:52:52 PM
Even a new franchise without any prior fan-base like chu2koi did better, if that says anything.

Isn't the fact it's Kyoto Animation enough to get many to buy it? I feel the fact it wasn't them is the reason why the sales were so poor for LB.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Reckoner on January 15, 2013, 07:58:04 PM
The numbers shown is pre-order sales for volume 1, as of the release date on 26 December 2012. It's a very poor number given the immense popularity of the franchise. Even a new franchise without any prior fan-base like chu2koi did better, if that says anything.

For comparison, the CLANNAD anime sold 27,834 units with volume 1, and Little Busters! has a much larger fanbase than CLANNAD. It also outsold CLANNAD in terms of visual novel sales. There is no excuse for the anime doing this poorly in comparison.

Yeah but Kyoani is a more successful studio on average than JC staff and they have brand name power. Comparing to Chuuni is not a very good comparison because again, that's KyoAni (As long as it's .gif able and has 2chan cred it's going to be successful).

Granted, they could be a little more successful with Little Busters, but considering that people around are trying to convince others that JC staff botched this adaption badly... It just seems a bit false considering the sizable amount of people who still bought it. I don't care what anybody says, 10k+ is still pretty strong considering 2chan's (or whatever other group's) attempts to destroy the credibility of this adaption.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: SQA on January 15, 2013, 08:55:04 PM
Given its a Key work, it should probably be better sales.  But, frankly, I'm pretty amazed it sold that much.  The series is really been quite boring for most of the run.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: TypicalIdiotFan on January 16, 2013, 09:38:49 PM
Quote from: Reckoner
Granted, they could be a little more successful with Little Busters, but considering that people around are trying to convince others that JC staff botched this adaption badly... It just seems a bit false considering the sizable amount of people who still bought it.

Since when do sales indicate anything about the show?  I mentioned Horizon for a reason, and while I like the show, Girls und Panzer is selling at RIDICULOUS levels.

Success != goodness.  The adaptation can still suck, even if the fans are still willing to buy it.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Reckoner on January 16, 2013, 09:46:24 PM
Horizon is a great adaption of its source though  - quality of it not withstanding.

My point is if the original fans thought the studio did such a bad adaption of the source material they loved, they wouldn't have bought it. Examples are like Umineko, which sold really poorly because the adaption is a piece of turd. Fans will not automatically shell out cash for bad adaption.

The source material can suck regardless, and that is a completely different story.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: TypicalIdiotFan on January 16, 2013, 09:48:13 PM
Yeah, but I don't think any of us find Little Busters to be Umineko levels of bad.  That just goes without saying.  So some success should still have been expected.

But, still, for a VN that is supposedly greater in some of the fans eyes than Clannad, it sure as hell isn't selling like Clannad did.  I think it stands to reason that the fans are okay with the adaptation, but not exactly enamored with it to the point where they're willing to chug out a ton of money.

Certainly not the cash cow people were expecting.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: SQA on January 17, 2013, 09:05:09 AM
You're missing 3 letters when talking about questionable adaptations of source material: SAO.   Quality, on either ends, not withstanding.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: ImperialX on January 19, 2013, 03:36:01 AM
Isn't the fact it's Kyoto Animation enough to get many to buy it?

that's KyoAni (As long as it's .gif able and has 2chan cred it's going to be successful).

Nichijou.

Seriously, Nichijou.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: SQA on January 19, 2013, 01:42:39 PM
Didn't Nichijou do really well after it was cut down to 12 episodes and reaired during day-time?  At least, that's what I've read in a few places.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: ImperialX on January 19, 2013, 03:50:38 PM
Didn't Nichijou do really well after it was cut down to 12 episodes and reaired during day-time?  At least, that's what I've read in a few places.

Well, that's after they sold all 12 episodes as a box for 6000 yen. Basically no profit. I actually bought that boxset because I love Nichijou and that price was just too good to not get. It still only sold a few thousand though.

The point is, people won't buy something just because it's KyoAni. People buy thing they like.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: AC on January 20, 2013, 07:29:06 PM
15:

This episode is so wrong in so many ways.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Sorrows Neptune on January 22, 2013, 11:01:38 PM
12-14:

I actually liked the Nishizono arc. For once the execution excelled to a point where there wasn't anything awkward or boring about the characters and their interactions, and I actually found myself caring about Mio and her problems. I was genuinely creeped out when I saw Midori smiling at the end of episode 12. The pacing wasn't that bad, either.

It sort of fell apart in episode 14 once the obvious plothole came up for why Riki can't just write about Mio in his diary and remember her through that, but overall it was halfway decent. If the VN is anything like this, I can imagine how it might be comparable to Clannad.

15:

I'm not sure if I found this episode hilarious in an ironic or non-ironic way.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: TypicalIdiotFan on January 25, 2013, 05:13:51 AM
15:

I don't know whether to feel bad for Naoe or curse his fortune.  Regardless, being Kyouske is suffering.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: AC on January 26, 2013, 07:12:59 PM
16:

That very awkward feeling you get for watching something that stupid such as the first 4 minutes of this episode...

Seeing them fight over some bench is like kids fighting over a popsicle just because of another issue; we all know that that bench wasn't the real agenda at hand. But that whole tradition of the Saigusa family... something tells that that revelation isn't going anywhere anymore, and that the story will simply continue from there without explaining the point of it in the plot. In other words, a plot device... and boy, is it a stupid one.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Sorrow-kun on January 26, 2013, 07:41:44 PM
Ep 16

I figured they were sisters or half-sisters or some bullshit. So colour me completely surprised that they turned out to be twins! (Not)

Also, the following represents my feeling towards the sequence before the OP:

(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m416t6lkoB1qa6rsvo1_400.gif)

Honestly, this gif would get a lot of mileage describing most of Little Busters! "humourous" fight scenes.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: TypicalIdiotFan on January 27, 2013, 12:10:11 AM
16:

I really wish they'd kept that last scene going for ten more seconds so each character could utter a droll "duh" at the "revelation".  I realize that anime hair colors are typically weird, especially in harems where a variety is necessary for lazy character designers to easily differentiate between characters, but even amongst the zanyness of Key adaptations, phlox purple hair like that is pretty ****ing rare.  I mean, it took Riki no more than a couple of seconds to mistake a FAR OFF Midori for Mio and I guarantee you it WASN'T because he memorized her curves.  Shit, the only way he can tell them apart normally is whether one has the parasol or not.  So don't sit there, Little Busters!, and try to sell me that these people are so ****ing dense that they can't tell that the ONLY TWO PHLOX PURPLE HAIR COLORED GIRLS IN THE UNIVERSE ARE RELATED.

Of course, if you blinked, you missed Saigusa with her blue colored contacts out, showing off that she really shares the golden eyes that form Futaki's cold stare (pay more attention when Saigusa is talking to Kud in their dorm room).  Not that I needed that help, or anything, because apparently EYE COLOR is so much more important than HAIR COLOR.  The rest of us humans are perfectly capable of recognizing when people are identical twins because THEY ****ING LOOK EXACTLY THE SAME.  Another reason why "same face" ruins anime.

But, hell they're Japs, they all look alike to me.

Anyway, so we now have two stories in a row where there's two of someone running around, though this one is a lot more tangible and less metaphysical.  Honestly, anime characters are far too quick to brush off weird shit happening.  If I'd found out that someone I knew had her shadow come to life as her outgoing doppleganger and then she was somehow able to ****ing disappear into a mumbo-jumbo limbo world, i might be a bit freaked that the universe isn't as straightforward as I believed.  But, **** it, Naoe suffers from narcolepsy for no reason, so maybe shit just washes right off his back.

But, anyway, this one's more visceral.  Most of us have had siblings we've quarreled with, and from my experience being around twins, the amount of rivalry they can have for each other borders upon homicidal.  Futaki and Saigusa seem to be leaning much harder into homicidal territory than simple rivalry, but I have this damned feeling there's some Batman Gambit behind Futaki's actions.  Yeah, sure, Saigusa is the child of a murderer (only Japan would ****ing care about this), but there might be more to it.  Maybe Futaki thinks she's helping Saigusa by trying to straighten her out or something.  Maybe Futaki thinks Saigusa is acting up because she's just like their father (a criminal; again, only in Japan) and that just pisses Futaki off more because it reminds her that she's related to that guy, too.  Yada yada, philosophy vs. philosophy; stupid Japanese "sins of the father are passed to the child" bullshit that just irritates me.  It's not a good plot element, because anybody not a backwards ****wad would know this isn't true at all.  People aren't born criminals.  Shit, there's been enough attempts at matching genetics to criminal behavior to know this isn't ****ing true.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Fumoffu!! on January 27, 2013, 01:12:37 PM
16:

I haven't come this close to dropping an anime since.... Tsuritama, and I doubt I'd be able to pick up Little Busters again like I did Tsuritama because unlike Tsuritama, LB will not get better. It just won't.

I get mad at Kotoura-san because the melodrama is so heavy handed, I feel it's unfair that I haven't said that about LB before now, my god that bench scene, and before with Midori, they just have to go and make them OBVIOUSLY BAD, BECAUSE OTHERWISE YOU WON'T GET IT. She should be simply a responsible if not unusually strict council president, but because that's not good enough, they have to make her tear into Saigusa.

This anime is utterly tasteless, it's not even that J.C. Staff are doing it, the source material is just atrocious. Please tell me that if I rewatched Clannad I wouldn't get like this. I don't think I'd like it quite as much, but I highly doubt I'd find it terrible like this is.

This story annoys me so much as well. Saigusa is a bad student, there is no doubt about it, when she walks into that disciplinary room to get punished, I should be agreeing with the council, she misses classes, does a bunch of shit she's not supposed to, but OH GOD THE COUNCIL ARE SO MEAN TO HER!! Why are they mean? **** knows, like her sister has some reason I'm sure, but the rest of them?. Like, the council members and the president are stupid and twisted by the plot they have to follow. The show is trying to force you to feel sorry for someone where in a normal situation she'd be entirely in the wrong.


Anyway, that last part at least strayed into more reasonable territory, even if it's still heavy handed at least the reactions of the students were reasonable.

Get better LB.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: thanosmat on January 27, 2013, 03:11:19 PM
Quote
LB will not get better. It just won't.

Yes, it will. Endure.

If you watched Clannad remember After Story compared to the first season. Refrain >>> After Story.

Even though JC Staff and Refrain which is complex to adapt ....

Quote
This anime is utterly tasteless, it's not even that J.C. Staff are doing it, the source material is just atrocious

Dont know the source material, and talks about, what a surprise.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Fumoffu!! on January 27, 2013, 06:24:45 PM
Quote
LB will not get better. It just won't.
Yes, it will. Endure.

If you watched Clannad remember After Story compared to the first season. Refrain >>> After Story.
"Endure"? That word is not one you use when referring to good anime. Although After Story was much better than Clannad, I still found the original series to be enjoyable (whether this would be true today is in doubt, but I don't believe I'd dislike it). Little Busters right now is.... well, I hate everything to do with Saigusa, but I don't think any of the stories have been decent.

Quote
This anime is utterly tasteless, it's not even that J.C. Staff are doing it, the source material is just atrocious

Dont know the source material, and talks about, what a surprise.
I have not as it happened, and whilst it may be true that it's not correct of me to make conclusions based on the adaptation (maybe I'm not correct at all), but I just can't fathom how the source material could be good given what I've been seeing. Is the LN in fact 100 times better and J.C. Staff has just managed to royally **** it up? I have a lot of faith in J.C. Staff's ability to **** with source materials, but even I find myself disbelieving their ability to produce something this bad from an excellent source.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Sorrows Neptune on January 28, 2013, 01:04:20 PM
16:

I hoped this show would be at least little better after the Nishizono arc. Now that hope has been squandered.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Fumoffu!! on February 03, 2013, 08:32:14 AM
17:

"Sometimes, when a woman consummates with two men, she can children from both simultaneously".

NOOOO! NO NO NO NO NO

Otherwise though, I liked this episode much more, even if it is being incredibly heavy on the drama.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: TypicalIdiotFan on February 03, 2013, 09:19:34 AM
17:

Okay... in order for this episode's nuclear bomb of a plot element to be remotely possible, quite literally you'd have to have the mother producing two eggs into the womb at the same time.  This part is rare, but not unusual, and is where fraternal twins can come from.  But then, in order for one set of sperm to not completely overwhelm both eggs, you'd have to have both fathers almost simultaneously ejaculating into the mother.  Then, you'd have to make sure that the lions shares of both clouds of sperm went after a different egg.  Of the millions of gametes sent into the woman's body, only one makes it into the egg, the rest die off either along the way or shortly afterward (this is one reason why getting pregnant is harder than people think).  But even if this DID happen, Mendelian genetic studies say that the dominant and recessive characteristics come from BOTH gametes, and therefore the two fraternal twins born would NEVER BE IDENTICAL IN APPEARANCE.

Identical twinning comes form when one already fertilized egg splits in half during the first few stages of mitosis; twins are quite literally clones of each other.  There is no such thing as a fraternal set of twins that are identical.  It is astronomically unlikely even when they both have the same parents, but to give them DIFFERENT parents!?  **** no.  ****. NO.

Now here's the funny part!  How in the hell are the fathers supposed to know which daughter is theirs?  Aside from a DNA test, you really wouldn't be able to tell.  According to the story, Saigusa Shou did his thing not long after the girls were born.  Did they do the DNA test already by that point?  Maybe, I suppose.  But, the show seems to imply that the fathers have some kind of instinctive knowledge about this or something.  If it was as simple as a DNA test, the girls probably could have had it done themselves (they wouldn't need Shou's sample, just the other father, by process of elimination they could determine the rest).

As for the episode itself, I've always been fascinated by twins... I think I've mentioned this before several times in fact.  But here we see a clear cut example of a pair of twins who really don't like each other, or do they?  They certainly both have a lot of misplaced anger, but Riki seems to have plumbed Futaki into revealing a bit of her own side of things.  Certainly, despite Saigusa's opinion that Futaki is getting the better end of shit, the truth seems to be that Futaki is just as miserable, if not moreso, than her sister.  Part of that is Saigusa's fault, which she openly admits makes her very happy (not really).  Part of that is Futaki's fault, which she openly admits makes her very happy (not really).  I'm not sure what Futaki is up to here with our "shocking twist" at the end, but I guess we'll find out.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: SQA on February 03, 2013, 06:30:45 PM
It's not "sometimes", it's more like "insanely rare thing".  Though, by stats, it's about 1% of of Live-births that would qualify for this to be possible.  Further, sperm can survive inside the uterus for almost a week, so if a mother had sex with two men within about 4 days, it's actually possible and has happened.    Though it's very, very rare.

And it's really stupid for a plot point.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: TypicalIdiotFan on February 04, 2013, 03:37:33 PM
It's not sperm survival I'm referring to, but that both eggs would somehow not be fertilized by one man's injection of gametes.  The sperm aren't going to just float around and give up after the first egg is fertilized.  It is possible, tho, that none of the remaining sperm were able to fertilize the other egg, but that just creates an even more rare set of possibilities.

And I don't think it would even be as high as 1%.  That would imply this could happen once every 60 million births or so, which is too high a chance for this kind of implausible scenario.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: SQA on February 04, 2013, 07:11:49 PM
It's 1% are faternal twins in "Asian" countries.  This means dual ovulation and successful implantation.  So, of Live Births, it's rare but not insanely.  Mixed fathers is going to be very rare, but it's not completely unheard of.  There's normally a case every few years of multiple race faternal twins here in the States. So if we tagged it as 1 in 10000 live births of Faternal twins, that'd still put it at 1 in 1 million or so.  With Japan having 1.1 million Live Births per year the last decade, that'd put the incidence at, roughly, once per year or so.  Assuming my guesstimate works properly.

Yeah, bad idea for a plot point.  Even in a mystical realism series.

Edit: had an extra 0 in my typing, so it's a little more common than I thought.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Reckoner on February 04, 2013, 09:27:43 PM
Not sure how that makes it a bad idea. It's supposed to be an extraordinary situation. It's not like they're passing it off as an ordinary one. It's incredibly unlikely, but not virtually impossible.

Anyways, I have some reservations about the last scene because I am a VN reader and I don't like how what they're doing with a particular aspect of the arc, but other than that I thought the episode was pretty well done.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: TypicalIdiotFan on February 05, 2013, 05:20:35 PM
My main issue is them being identical.  Fraternal twins are not identical twins.  They can look similar, but not exactly alike.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Reckoner on February 05, 2013, 05:23:47 PM
They are not identical twins, although they do look abnormally alike. One difference between the two is their eye color, Kanata is wearing colored contacts at the end of that last episode.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: TypicalIdiotFan on February 06, 2013, 09:38:39 PM
That's both true and not.  Saigusa has the same gold colored eyes as her sister, as shown specifically in episode 16 (pay attention when she's talking to Kud in their dorm room).  Therefore, she is wearing blue colored contacts most of the time.  In order for Futaki to complete the ruse, she had to wear matching contacts or her eye color would give it away.

Unless that was Futaki that snuck into Kud's dorm room for some reason.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Reckoner on February 06, 2013, 10:45:10 PM
Futaki is Kud's roomate  :P.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: TypicalIdiotFan on February 06, 2013, 10:53:21 PM
Is she?  I spaced out on that then.  She was sure acting like Saigusa in that scene.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: MCAL on February 06, 2013, 11:01:50 PM
Episodes 1-17

Hello there. I have recently become a big fan of anime and have just started to watch what premieres each season. That being said, I decide to join this forum as I have been a big fan of the Nihon Review for quite some time and even though I have been in disagreement on some of the recent reviews, I look forward to posting. That being said I thought I start out with this series which unlike most I am enjoying quite well. Now I see where this show might be a bore, but what has made this series for me is definitely the idea of friendship it has. It's been quite prevalent and has helped a great deal in the heroine routes (Even if I did not completely agree with the execution) It helps that JC Staff is the studio to go when it comes to friendship. There's no denying that some of its best series focus on this aspect of friendship and perhaps I understand how all the characters feel on a gut level that makes this series decent for me. I don't like Komari really and Haruka isn't exactly the most tolerable character, but Komari has her charms (and usually the least amount of screen time) as do most of the cast. And I find Haruka's arc to be pretty good so far (Bench scene not withstanding: Although from what I hear, apparently that Bench scene is where Haruka goes berserk and not in the student disciplinary room. Plus it gets much more heavy handed and nonsensical, so JC Staff may have been doing us a favor and made this story better... So Score 1 for JC Staff!)  I definitely find most of the guys the more interesting the characters (Do you guys and girls agree?). I also really like Riki as the main character. I'm not sure how everyone else feels about him, but I like him for a few good reasons. One is he is unlike any of the male KEY leads and sometimes that's a good thing as most Key leads are the snarky type and that sometimes gets in the way. Another thing come from Riki being unlike most harem male and regular male leads. Take Episode 15 for example where the girls kidnap (For lack of the better word) him. The worst he does is blush a little at some ecchi thought he had and that's it. Most male leads would be stammering like and idiot, tripping all over the place which will usually lead to some kind of misunderstanding where... Well, you know the drill. I also like how he feels just as comfortable with the girls as he is with the guys and in the current episode he admits that his thinking that he can save everybody that Kanata calls him on as arrogant. I mean what male lead would ever admit that. Anyway, I think I made my case well enough. if I were to rate this so far, I would give Komari's route a 3/10, Mio's route an 8/10 and so far Haruka's route an 8/10 as well, but that can easily go way down. Every other episode (The Common Route I guess) I would give a 7/10. (It does what it needs to do and does it well enough) That makes it so far a 6.5 out of 10 which I think I'll lower to a 6/10 so far. (Note this is just a score based on story alone. I'm not that down with the art and animation as most are. What it lacks in movement, it makes up for in almost near consistent character designs and some beautiful background art. After all is said and done though, I'd probably have this as a 5/10).

So I guess I'll leave it at that with a question from Episode 17. What do you think of Kanata's statement that life is a Zero-Sum Game? I for one agree with her and I believe that we as humans can't live without eventually hurting another human, although severity will obviously vary.

P.S. And I should admit that I have a complete bias for Kurugaya. I thought I should lay that out on the table. I can't help it, but every scene with her is made of pure win to me and I think she is the only girl that Riki has any real chemistry with so far. Here's hoping she is the heroine Riki ends up with (A guy can dream, can't he?) Also sorry if there is double post by mistake.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: thanosmat on February 07, 2013, 06:40:42 PM
Quote
P.S. And I should admit that I have a complete bias for Kurugaya. I thought I should lay that out on the table. I can't help it, but every scene with her is made of pure win to me and I think she is the only girl that Riki has any real chemistry with so far. Here's hoping she is the heroine Riki ends up with (A guy can dream, can't he?) Also sorry if there is double post by mistake.

I say you'll feel depressed on her route.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: MCAL on February 09, 2013, 09:23:22 PM
18:

And... Little Busters continues the trend of depressing episodes in anime. Luckily, there was a Happy ending for this one. So, all things considered, that was actually pretty well balanced. First of all, I would like to say, I hope the Saigusa family all die horrible deaths. Seeing them literally throw Haruka out into the mud was bad enough, but no, they had to resort to theatening to kill both sisters. And sadly, I'd like to say that this is unrealistic, but that would be arogant of me and everyone else. There truly are messed up families like that in the world. I'm not saying Polygamy and Polyandry (Which is what the Saigusa family is) are bad, I'm just saying more often then not, it gets way out of hand. There are also families that wouldn't give a second thought about hurting their children and there are people who would shame others just for something their parents are (More often than not, criminals and homosexuals are the two top reasons). I'm not trying to be preachy here, but before everyone here gets on the Bashing Train to Unrealistic Valley, it is fair to point out these things.

Back to the episode, there were no surprises there. It's safe to say that I could predict what would happen. Although the truth about Haruka and Kanata's parents was a mild surprise. I had assummed that Shou tried to kill the other male in the relationship because the Saigusa family prefered him over Shou, but the real reason does make much more sense. Not that I'm saying violence is the right thing to do, but if there was anyone who deserved, it was that family for sure. Of course, the episode wasn't perfect. I think Haruka changed her mind a little too quickly. Asking Kanata and swallowing her pride (I really did gain a lot of respect for her) was the reasonabble thing to do, but that doesn't make it the most believable thing. I fully understand why Kanata spilled the beans though. She had to completely bottle up her true feelings, while suffering physical (And sexual? With that family nothing would surprise me) abuse and as long as her sister hated her, she deluded herself into thinking it was all right. But clearly that was no longer going to work and so the emotions flooded.

Well, I give Haruka's route a 7/10. It lost most of its points from that bench scene (I still find it funny that VN Readers are still complaining about that) and the finale that wasn't perfect, but all in all I found it a pretty decent story. So combined with the other heroine routes so far, I'd give Little Busters a 6/10. (Note: I changed Konari's route to 4/10 and Common route to 8/10. I lowered it because I felt like I'd be ridiculed for being too lenient, but I need to do what Haruka did and follw what I truly want)

Next up is English lessons with Kud who is an interesting one to say the least. Out of the many bloggers and forum commentors I have seen, the people who usually hate the overtly Moe charcaters (I am one too, but only those that are too moe. Characters like Mio and Kurugaya I have no problem with, it's characters like Komari and Kud that I really despise) like her and people who don't like Little Busters seem to like her. I like her too even though I shouldn't and I'd be hard-pressed to tell you why (It's probably the Engrish though). Do you guys like her? I hear her route is quirky to say the least, so I hope I can be entertained, but we'll see. Also, the mystrious disappearence of Mio has me very interested now.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: MCAL on February 10, 2013, 01:34:07 AM
I should put a disclaimer though. My above post doesn't mean I thought this episode was bad. It was a soild 9/10 for me with it losing one point for the fault I mentioned above. In fact this episode not only made me really like this arc, it also really made me feel for Kanata (In fact, this was more Kanata's arc than it was Haruka). In my opinion, she suffered thrice as much as Haruka and I am happy to see Haruka forgive her (Even if I'm not too okay with how she got there). So while this might not be my favorite arc, it was the arc that made me think the most and the arc that made me feel alot of different emotions. A five for the first episode, a seven for the second and a nine for the last.

Also... Damn Haruka! I know you look hot in that oufit, but was that really appropiate for the occassion.

And did you know that Kud is a Japanese stupid? I would have never guessed.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: TypicalIdiotFan on February 10, 2013, 09:22:06 AM
18:

Thanks to various explanations, I can put up with the fraternal / absurdly lookalike twin sisters bit, but there's more here that's kind of wonky.

Displaced anger is a real thing, especially amongst siblings, and I get that, but Haruka never struck me as someone who "needed" (as Kyousuke says) to hate something in order to keep going.  If this is true, then none of her moments thus far with the Little Busters have been genuine, as the real emotional state of Haruka is simply frothing mad all the time.  The only times we've ever seen her reveal her darker self was when Kanata came around.  Maybe it's just me, but the people that I know who are driven by their emotional rage tend to be pissed off 90% of the time, and they're generally not fun to be around unless you know what's up with them.

But, whatever, like I said displaced anger is a real thing.  Haruka was mad at Kanata for thinking that Kanata was being treated better by the family unfairly.  This can lead to a big pile of resentment, as children tend to get jealous and hate upon the pampered target rather than the people doing the pampering.  This is where the displacement happens.  Haruka should be mad as hell at the Saigusa family, but like most children, hasn't crossed the gap between her own imagined rivalry and the reality of an abusive household.  A lot of folks with parental issues don't come to grips with them until they're older and able to reason better.  As such, I don't find her situation unusual.

What I do find unusual is Kanata's situation.  She all but said that she was being the good girl so that she could get those benefits.  That's natural, but she was also being harshly abused for failure.  It seems to me that trying to create a strong individual is born not from their failures and punishments, especially in women.  What ends up happening with abused people is that they end up going past "strong" and straight to "psychotic".  But, then she sort of tries to say that she's been doing this all for Haruka's sake in order to save her life.  Well, which is it?  Were you after the rewards or were you out to protect your sister?  I suppose you can have both, but one is a lot less noble than the other.

And now the really wonky part.  The explanation behind Saigusa Shou's incarceration was a bit too heart warming for my tastes, honestly, and dredges up a really dumb question:  where the **** have the parents been this whole time?  I don't know Japanese child possession laws for snot, but I would think that if they wanted to get their daughters away from the Saigusa and Futaki families, respectively, they should have been able to pull that off.  Instead, Haruka, Kanata, and Shou go for a visit and everything looks like it's hunky dorey.  Okay, so.... why have you allowed your daughters to go through this hell?  And how can you welcome them with such wide smiles as if nothing bad ever happened?  You can't claim ignorance of what the Saigusa family is capable of, so what the hell man?  You could have at least taken Haruka from there.

It makes less sense once they explain that backstory in detail.  The Saigusa family "stole" the children, the parents went to steal them back, were apparently successful, and Shou set the building on fire, but they somehow ended up NOT escaping with the children?  Were they forced to return the kids to the Saigusas by the law?  This is never explained.  I have a hard time believing the other two parents willingly gave up their children to the Saigusa family considering the fight they just had.  I also presume that the other two parents were disowned from the family for all this.

And finally, Shou turns out to be much more noble than people believed, which makes the question of whether he's one of the girl's father moot.  A heroic criminal who fought for your sake is hardly something to be ashamed of.  But, I think the question is actually answered more subtly if you pay attention:  Shou isn't a genetic parent to either of them.  The mom only truly loved the one husband, and while Shou loved her, too, he was selfless enough not to get in their way.  This implies he never had sex with her in the first place, as that would complicate matters.  Not only that, but deciding to leave once the girls were born seems to imply that the other guy was the dad, and this made it easier for him to separate from the trio.  In a way, he'll always love Haruka and Kanata as his own, but they're not, so he remains a father figure more than a father.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: MCAL on February 11, 2013, 10:21:10 PM
VN Playing:

I have been playing the routes for each girl after their story is done in the anime. Just finished Haruka's route and what can I say...

JC Staff... You have surpassed yourself here. Honestly, not only were they able to condense the biggest (So far) route, they did it without glossing over too much important facts and compared to the VN version, JC Staff's version is a masterpiece of subtlety. I wish I could make this up people, but it if you guys blame the downfall of Little Busters for this arc, JC Staff shouldn't be the target of your disappointment.

The problem with Haruka's route in the game isn't that its not great, it could be quite gripping at times and filled with venom, but that it required the characters to act way too over the top. As they were adapting this, JC Staff knew when to tone down the drama and when to keep it there for maximum effect. It really worked out well. The only real problem was that Haruka was actually living in the custody of her real parents (Although they sounded strangely robotic for some reason. I don't know. It felt like they were reading from a script and they kept repeating themselves), which would have negated one of TypicalIdiotFan's complaints for this episode, but overall it wasn't too big a deal breaker. It also really succeeded in making Kanata twice more sympathetic and the addition I really liked was how Riki goes about helping Haruka. Since the routes in the game take a romance angle, all Riki had to really do is I love you and all is good with the world. Really! I wish I could make that up, but it is all true. It made Komari's jump back from depression believable.

So, in other words, score 2 for JC Staff! You're lucky there is an English translation for the VN. If I were to compare the other two arc... Komari's arc was a train-wreck from the beginning. JC Staff did what they could and it was good for all it was worth, which isn't much I know. As for Mio, both were done wonderfully, although Mio was somewhat more fleshed out in the VN and there was this scene in the library where Mio gets high off of books LOL! But of course it was also a solid effort, although the VN won there.

And now that I think about it I know what the problem might be here with Little Busters. It is the first Key game written by many writers, while Jun Maeda is in charge of Rin and Refrain. And I think the other writers are trying to match the writing level of Maeda and they are either trying too hard, they fail to hit the mark or they have too many routes to deal with. They should try to write their own style, but they fail to see that they are no Maeda. The best route so far (Mio) is the only one who has only one writer (Leo Kashida) and his style is much more nuanced and subtle, which in turn makes Mio's route so great. I worry now about Kurugaya's route though since it was written by Komari's writer, but we'll get to that landmine soon.

All in all, I think JC Staff is getting a bad rap with Little Busters, but it really isn't (mostly) their fault at all. When the source material was  bad the anime was bad. When the source material was good the anime was good or sometimes better.

Also, props have to go out to Haruka and Kanata's Seiyuu: Suzuki Keiko-san. Not only was she able to make the emotional moments work well, but she did it in two completely different voices which in turn were slightly different from the voices in the VN. That means she had to do four different voice and she did them all very well. Maybe Haruka's voice was annoying, but her actor was definitely no amateur. (Komari's voice still sucks though)
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: TypicalIdiotFan on February 11, 2013, 11:20:45 PM
Point of order:  JC Staff is blamed for a lot of things because JC Staff sucks.  Even if you think they're doing this adaptation well, other adaptations and shows they have done have been piss.  So, it's not like we're damning JC Staff for THIS anime, as they've already dug their own grave long before this.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Reckoner on February 11, 2013, 11:42:24 PM
JC staff indeed have some history working against them, but their reputation is more of a hit or miss studio than a studio that is just shit. That's why people were highly skeptical of this adaption before it even hit the screen. I think people have been treating this story a little bit too cynically and haven't been able to relax and enjoy it for what it is. A simple, straightforward and innocent story about friendship. The humor doesn't necessarily work for everybody, but that has always been the case with KEY. Komari's arc was indeed shit to begin with as I noted before. And I believe the anime treated Mio's and Haruka's routes well enough, and their respective VN coutnerparts were pretty decent as well.

But yeah, it's hard to match up to the standard of an imaginary adaption by Kyoani. Certianly kyoani could do this better, mostly in a visual/directing sense, but the content would pretty much be close to the same. Maybe if people didn't treat Little Busters like the holy grail all these years it would be evaluated for what it is. It's definitely in my view an enjoyable title, but not the master piece it is touted to be. Then again, I thought Clannad (both the anime and the VN) was extremely disappointing and I think LB has easily beat it in my view. I still think the gold standard for KEY might be Kanon2006 (anime wise). Clannad didn't really work and neither did Air.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: MCAL on February 12, 2013, 12:16:05 AM
Sorry. I meant no disrespect to your opinions if it came off as that way. I agree with the consensus from most points made in the forums here, I just wanted to state my opinion on the matter.

Kanon (2006) is definitely the KEY standard. The best visual novel adaption in my opinion too, just above Steins;Gate.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: thanosmat on February 12, 2013, 12:22:28 AM
Quote
When the source material was good the anime was good or sometimes better.

This is wrong. There are many good works on the source material, and adaptations that are very bad.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: MCAL on February 12, 2013, 12:29:16 AM
Quote
When the source material was good the anime was good or sometimes better.

This is wrong. There are many good works on the source material, and adaptations that are very bad.

I was referring to Little Busters (and the anime version of it) in general. There are plenty of anime adaptions of good VNs that end up horrible anyway (Chaos;Head comes to mind). I'm just saying that in the case of Little Busters, JC Staff (mostly, not all the time) has gotten the good out of whatever good parts of the VN that have been adapted so far.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: thanosmat on February 12, 2013, 01:03:31 AM
Changing and removing a key feature of the main plot which is further explored in Refrain turn this adaptation weak in my opnion. Kurugaya's route will suffer most from it. Her route doesn't.make sense without this.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Reckoner on February 12, 2013, 01:14:07 AM
What are you even talking about? You can put it in spoiler tags.

They haven't missed anything too crucial yet IMO, and we still have no idea  how they play to approach Refrain in the anime. My only significant complaints with the anime so far are how they snubbed Kengo's screen time and how Masato has been flanderized a tiny bit compared to his VN self.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Sorrow-kun on February 12, 2013, 04:51:55 AM
And finally, Shou turns out to be much more noble than people believed, which makes the question of whether he's one of the girl's father moot.  A heroic criminal who fought for your sake is hardly something to be ashamed of.  But, I think the question is actually answered more subtly if you pay attention:  Shou isn't a genetic parent to either of them.  The mom only truly loved the one husband, and while Shou loved her, too, he was selfless enough not to get in their way.  This implies he never had sex with her in the first place, as that would complicate matters.  Not only that, but deciding to leave once the girls were born seems to imply that the other guy was the dad, and this made it easier for him to separate from the trio.  In a way, he'll always love Haruka and Kanata as his own, but they're not, so he remains a father figure more than a father.
Yep, this is what I got out of this episode.

My gripe (assuming it wasn't a mistranslation, since it was such a bizarre thing to say) was that somehow Haruka concluded that there are no evil people in this world out of this.  How?  If the Saigusa family is anything but evil, I don't know what that word means.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: thanosmat on February 12, 2013, 09:04:43 AM
What are you even talking about? You can put it in spoiler tags.

They haven't missed anything too crucial yet IMO, and we still have no idea  how they play to approach Refrain in the anime. My only significant complaints with the anime so far are how they snubbed Kengo's screen time and how Masato has been flanderized a tiny bit compared to his VN self.

I talk about the structure of time loop that is part of the plot and the secret of the world, and how this influences the development of personality of Rin (mostly) and Riki.


Earlier, Rin is extremely shy and as time loops are happening she becomes more open and strong and is slowly being related to the other characters. And the reason for this are the time loop world that Kyousuke and the others Little Busters have created for Rin e Riki. The way the anime does this character development (Rin) is not noticed, and in many moments she acts as timidly at first and in others acts differently for no reason. This will impact Rin's Route in the anime, which is precisely the route that resets all the work done by the constant loops. For anime only watchers the regression in her state wil not cause emotional impact as the visual novel where Rin's development is gradual and in the anime is a mess. In the anime, when the secret of the world is revealed in Refrain, it will not make much sense with what happened in the anime unless they change the plot of time loops, and I don't see how can be done well.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Reckoner on February 12, 2013, 01:50:45 PM
My gripe (assuming it wasn't a mistranslation, since it was such a bizarre thing to say) was that somehow Haruka concluded that there are no evil people in this world out of this.  How?  If the Saigusa family is anything but evil, I don't know what that word means.

I think this is a case of taking the line too literally without reading into what she meant by it. The idea is supposed to be that it is "no one's fault that she was born unhappy." Part of the whole conclusion to her story is that she stopped blaming other people, particularly Kanata, for her unhappiness. When she says there were no evil people in the world, it is more that she no longer felt she should blame others for her problems. She didn't need to accuse others of being evil as an excuse for her unhappiness. Her life was her own to live, she had friends who supported her, and she could make her own happiness.

I talk about the structure of time loop that is part of the plot and the secret of the world, and how this influences the development of personality of Rin (mostly) and Riki.


Earlier, Rin is extremely shy and as time loops are happening she becomes more open and strong and is slowly being related to the other characters. And the reason for this are the time loop world that Kyousuke and the others Little Busters have created for Rin e Riki. The way the anime does this character development (Rin) is not noticed, and in many moments she acts as timidly at first and in others acts differently for no reason. This will impact Rin's Route in the anime, which is precisely the route that resets all the work done by the constant loops. For anime only watchers the regression in her state wil not cause emotional impact as the visual novel where Rin's development is gradual and in the anime is a mess. In the anime, when the secret of the world is revealed in Refrain, it will not make much sense with what happened in the anime unless they change the plot of time loops, and I don't see how can be done well.

First of all there is one big difference between the approach of the VN and the approach of the anime. The anime chose to integrate the little busters crew more into the individual routes, and give Rin in particular more presence in all their stories. The visual novel didn't.

While on one hand we are seeing Rin be a little more assertive socially, it still has not shown her having recovered from her social awkwardness whatsoever. Maybe this does weaken the effect of her degradation in Refrain a tiny bit, but at the same time it strengthens the friendship connection between Rin and the other girls which wasn't really there in the VN. The VN didn't make it very credible that Rin was close friends with Komari and the other girls, while I feel she is closer to the girls in the anime.

Still even when Rin is trying to be helpful to her friends in the anime, she has a lot of difficulty expressing her feelings. I find it hard to construe this as her overcoming her shyness. I honestly think JC staff is fixing a significant problem with the source because it establishes Rin's social awkwardness, but at the same time showing that Rin is growing her social connections with the girls.
 
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Aelms on February 12, 2013, 09:20:53 PM
Adding the the VN=>Anime discussion:

I agree with the time loop being a significant feature that should probably have been kept. Each arc in the VN managed to flesh out they're respective characters because of their more intimate moments with Riki and the readers grow to sympathise with the characters in response. While the LB are more integrated with the adaptation, I think this might fall apart a bit when considering how the purpose of the dream world is the maturing of Riki and Rin.

Overall, I think the anime had some good ideas with integrating Rin but did so with terrible execution. In the VN, her awkwardness was highlighted by how the viewer is constantly reminded through Riki's dialogue with her that they wouldn't be able to rely on the Little Busters eventually. The anime fails to show this aspect of their characterisation and the extra involvement she has in each individual route is superficial at best.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Sorrows Neptune on February 12, 2013, 10:37:37 PM
18:

Just like with Nishizono I was really liking this arc until the conclusion, wherein everything fell apart due to an unexplained plothole.  Although this time I was less forgiving towards why the twins were apparently still with the Saigusa family.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: MCAL on February 16, 2013, 08:49:01 PM
19: English Studies-nano desu!

But really, there are a few things I've noticed: One is that for some reason Little Busters can take the most dull moments in any other slice of life and somehow make it enjoyable (Episode 9 notwithstanding).
                                                                         Two is like Koutora-san, Little Busters has bipolar disorder. It's either heavy drama or light comedy (Whether you find it any good is another story)
                                                                         Three is despite saying that only Kud's episodes are a balance of the two.
                                                                         Four is for some reason I like Kud when I should hate her and everyone else I talk too thinks the same way I do. I mean how does she do it. I mean she didn't  get a spin off game for nothing. Wafu!                     
                                                                         Five is Kurugaya is always a badass no matter what she does. I think we can all agree on that (I think?)
                                                                         Six is the beginning of the episode was weird.

Although the sixth point brings up an interesting theory. I think by now we all noticed that Riki always wakes up after one of the girls' stories is over. So it isn't a stretch to say all of it is a dream. The question I guess is why that is and how come the events that happen in that dream seem to effect the real world. Also it seems Mio is back and no one is questioning why. It isn't a coincidence that it happened when her arc finished, but then why didn't it happen to Komari during Mio's route? Will it happen with both Mio and Haruka during Kud's route? Anyway so all I know is that the girl's arc are probably a dream and affect the real world, but I don't know why. Also, Masato seems to have something to hide (Dat smirk). I don't know. Maybe I am thinking this too much. Does Little Busters! deserve to be overanalysed. It does make episode 9 slightly more important though as I did noticed several times that dates were censored, while time wasn't. Well, what do you know... JC Staff may have scored again.

So it seems like after what seemed to start Kud's arc (Since I don't remember this in the common route) we go back to common route episode and then back to Kud. Why they would do that, I have no idea.

Also, maybe you can answer this VN players. Am I just finding the soundtrack in Little Busters unmemorable? Cause people are complaining about it in the anime when they are using basically the exact same tracks. Are they seeing something I am not?
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Aelms on February 17, 2013, 01:41:38 AM
@MCAL

The music wasn't particularly memorable even in the VN. Each character had their own theme and you could guess who was gonna show up in a scene based on the BGM. There are one or two scenes where I remember music being an important factor but those are sparse.

19:

A surprisingly good episode for me. The dialogue was more meaningful in showing each character's individual personalities. It seems that they won't jump straight to Kud's route though, based on the episode preview.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: ImperialX on February 17, 2013, 12:57:57 PM
I think by now we all noticed that Riki always wakes up after one of the girls' stories is over. So it isn't a streatch to say all of it is a dream.

What if...

The whole thing was a dream? Gasp!
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: MCAL on February 17, 2013, 03:16:02 PM
I think by now we all noticed that Riki always wakes up after one of the girls' stories is over. So it isn't a streatch to say all of it is a dream.

What if...

The whole thing was a dream? Gasp!

A dream within a dream. Dreamception!

I love it!
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: ImperialX on February 17, 2013, 07:05:11 PM
I think by now we all noticed that Riki always wakes up after one of the girls' stories is over. So it isn't a streatch to say all of it is a dream.

What if...

The whole thing was a dream? Gasp!

A dream within a dream. Dreamception!

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DreamWithinADream
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: AC on February 17, 2013, 07:48:51 PM
19:

Why is it that everyone in the school who's not a Little Buster a jerk?
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: SQA on February 17, 2013, 09:47:12 PM
So there's something of a plot?
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: MCAL on February 18, 2013, 12:50:03 AM
So there's something of a plot?
Apparently so. And we were just too bored (Well not me. I had a fine time watching (Episode 9 notwithstanding of course)) to notice it. LB has finally got (Semi) interesting.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: MCAL on February 18, 2013, 06:52:59 AM
19:
You know what else I noticed... Mio is a troll and I think Riki got a glimpse of Haruka's panties that one time. Lucky him.
19:
Why is it that everyone in the school who's not a Little Buster a jerk?
Apparently they are almost always females too. Sexist... or just plain misunderstood?

Oh! And apparently Kud isn't a Japanese Stupid after all.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Fumoffu!! on February 18, 2013, 02:23:28 PM
19:

Why is it that everyone in the school who's not a Little Buster a jerk?
Because they're jealous that they are only a measly side character at best.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: TypicalIdiotFan on February 23, 2013, 09:19:34 PM
20:

So.... we gonna get back to a plot anytime soon here?
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: MCAL on February 23, 2013, 10:14:36 PM
20:
Okay... Pointlesness aside you have to admit that that was a hilarious episode. Little Busters has definitely gotten better at comedy.
The rap and Kurugaya's reaction to Rin's question about love; "In love with me, I hope" were the best. Did I mention Kurugaya is excellent? I think I would watch the show just for her. She has offically become my favorite KEY heroine (Sorry, Tomoyo). Also, Mio and her Yaoi jokes. You know I could have swore by Komari's reaction she thought Rin was in love with her too.

Ironically, Rin is just like this show. Shameless, blunt and to-the-point... And I like it.

And just so you know I demand one moment of Kurugaya greatness every 2-3 episodes.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: SQA on February 24, 2013, 03:06:38 AM
20:

So.... we gonna get back to a plot anytime soon here?

Signs point to "we'll deal with the plot next season!" or something.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Sorrow-kun on February 24, 2013, 03:57:04 AM
Ep 20

Even if it was a complete distraction, I have to admit that was a surprisingly entertaining episode.

(http://i.imgur.com/ZefM0ho.jpg)

Every joke has a kernel of truth.  A lot more than a kernel in this one though.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: AC on February 24, 2013, 07:43:37 PM
20:

Rin is an idiot (or socially inept, whichever you wanna call it). And this episode revolved around the actions of an idiot. Therefore, the episode is quite idiotic as well. But as SK put it, the episode is still amusing... at least it can be amusing sometimes when it doesn't overdo the humor.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: MCAL on February 24, 2013, 10:42:13 PM
20:

Rin is an idiot (or socially inept, whichever you wanna call it). And this episode revolved around the actions of an idiot. Therefore, the episode is quite idiotic as well. But as SK put it, the episode is still amusing... at least it can be amusing sometimes when it doesn't overdo the humor.
I'm gonna call it socially inept. But hey, at least she shows some growth... Granted its cliche growth, but growth none the less. But hey, as long as the episode is fun. And there is some kind of charm to her stupidity (Meal A Plan? WTF?!) that Komari lacks. Speaking of, I still hate Komari. Why does she have to be important again?
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: MCAL on March 02, 2013, 09:01:49 PM
21:
That was quite the ending. Even if it did seem like the most likely possibility. What a complete contrast to the beginning of the episode, which was hilarious by the way with Haruka's The End of the World scenario. But it was Riki the Meido for the win.

It occurs to me while I watch this, that Little Busters' first season and Clannad's first season are exact opposites in what they do right and wrong. Clannad was better than LB at drama, while LB was better at humor than Clannad. Meanwhile Clannad had great pacing, but as a result could hardly go through half of the girls in the story's routes. And LB has more irregular pacing, but as a result they are able to go through all the girl's routes and even most of the common route. Does anyone agree with me on this?

Also the more I watch Kud, the more I like her and the more tolerable I find her voice. It only makes Komari worse in comparison. She completely lacks the charm to Kud's voice or the more compelling story of Haruka and Kanata. Does anyone also agree with me on that?
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: TypicalIdiotFan on March 03, 2013, 02:38:54 PM
21:

Aside from being a dog lover, I don't understand the appeal of Kud at all.  Oh yeah, she's a loli and adorable.  I forgot what country this originates from for a sec.

Anyway, the ritual scene was borderline disturbing, because it sure seemed like the director was trying to make that as sensual as he could.  In the VN, from what I understand, that "random meetup" wasn't random at all, and actually a key point in the romance angle between Riki (via the player) and Kud.  Thus, as a simple random happenstance, it's a bit more bizarre to the viewer, especially if the context of the original scene isn't known.  That being said, what the hell kind of backwater former Soviet nation does Kud come from.  Apparently one not backwater enough to have space flight capability... because there are so many island nations in the world gunning for space programs.

Kud says "it'll probably go better if I don't watch".  Hah.  One of those stupid self fulfilling prophecies.  If she'd have watched, the results would have been the same, and it still would have had nothing to do with you.  I'm sure we'll get a bit more on Kud's relationship with her mother, but it doesn't seem like she had a strong one from what we've seen thus far.  Also, how ya gonna fix this one Riki?  Got some glue?
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: MCAL on March 03, 2013, 07:09:28 PM
Anyway, the ritual scene was borderline disturbing, because it sure seemed like the director was trying to make that as sensual as he could.  In the VN, from what I understand, that "random meetup" wasn't random at all, and actually a key point in the romance angle between Riki (via the player) and Kud.  Thus, as a simple random happenstance, it's a bit more bizarre to the viewer, especially if the context of the original scene isn't known.

I didn't find the ritual scene disturbing at all. What would have made it disturbing is if we had Riki stammering and blushing every two seconds and Kud blushing every ten seconds saying "something or other~nano desu!" Had they added some ecchi joke, it would have been worse.  But no. Kud felt almost natural and while Riki did try to, he didn't dissolve into a stammering mess and didn't turn away, instead getting kind of swept into the whole thing. There was something... I don't know... Serene about it... Or perhaps sincere? The point I'm trying to make is that while it seemed sensual, it was somehow sensual in a non-cringe inducing way. It also goes to the point made in episode 19 that Riki (and the rest of the Little Busters) accept Kud for who she is, no matter how weird her customs are. I mean, wouldn't it be great to have friends like that? In that sense, I think it shows that Kud is comfortable enough to reveal more of her customs to her friends and that Riki feels honored that Kud would be so blunt with him on the matter.

I think this makes Riki a great male harem protagonist too. What most male leads tend to do, Riki doesn't. Where most are super dense, Riki is self aware. Where most would constantly stammer and think up ridiculous ecchi situations for every single little thing, Riki does not (A good example being episode 15). Where most Key leads (And some male leads) are snarky and sometimes come off as jerks, Riki is kind, understanding and accepting. Where some male leads never realize their flaws, Riki does. (An example being episode 17 with the scene with Kanata where she wonders if life is a zero sum game.)

So basically what I am trying to say is I think Riki is a near-completely unconventional male lead. I mean I'm not being crazy here. The evidence is there, right?

EDIT: As for Kud... While I still can't figure out why she is actually working for me, I will say this... Besides Moe (This is a Key work after all), she doesn't really fit into any known trope that I can think of... or maybe I'm just crazy and I'm just a sucker for Japanese Engrish... I'll let you guys decide.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: AC on March 03, 2013, 08:39:07 PM
21:

(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n256/animanic_critic/Facepalm.jpg)

And was I surprised to see the rocket blow up upon liftoff? NO. I'm not sadistic, but no, I was not surprised one bit. Shit always happen for every arc, so why should I be surprised?
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: MCAL on March 03, 2013, 08:56:18 PM
21:

(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n256/animanic_critic/Facepalm.jpg)
Hah, hah, hah! That's my reaction too (Well, I facepalm in my mind). At least it was better then what started Haruka's arc. Kurugaya and her overactive imagination, I love it. Also, Haruka's End of the World scenario.

Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Sorrows Neptune on March 04, 2013, 06:53:11 PM
What I found particularly odd about the ritual scene was that they were doing it in such an open area, where any other kid who happens to be taking a nightly stroll would spot them. Which is even weirder if it was originally a romantic scene in the VN.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: MCAL on March 09, 2013, 08:17:59 PM
22:
The more I hear Kud, the more I like her voice. It handles the dramatics parts much better than Komari's voice did. Speaking of drama, throughout most of its run, the drama has really been so-so. It's not horrible, but apart from Mio, I really haven't felt sad about them. Sure I took it seriously, (Unlike this week's R;N), but that was all. Kud's arc is the first time in LB that I felt really sad for her. Her farewell scene was particularly well done and her dilema, not being able to live up to a parent, is practically universal. I also liked how Riki saw his trying to help Kud as selfish. It's that honesty and his tolerance (Displayed last episode in the ritual scene) that make him one of the most non-conventional male leads I've seen in a while.

Now Haruka and Mio are missing, but Komari is still here (Why?!). Plus Kyosuke is suspicious now too. I'm really interested in the plot now.

EDIT: I really can't get the opening and ending out of my head. They're both so damn catchy!
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Sorrow-kun on March 09, 2013, 10:36:40 PM
Ep 22
Now Haruka and Mio are missing, but Komari is still here (Why?!). Plus Kyosuke is suspicious now too. I'm really interested in the plot now.
Yeah, this is the thing I found kinda uncanny.  The Little Busters do pretty much everything as a group, and Haruka is incredibly conspicuous when she's missing.  So, for the two of them to not be there to say goodbye to Kud is weird.  Intriguing giving that surreal scene where Riki tried to call Haruka.

On Kyousuke as well, he almost has a mystical feel to him, given the way he supervises the characters and interferes when they're truly in need.  I strongly suspect there's more to Kyousuke than they're letting on.

To me, this would have been a neat way to tie up Kud's story, but the next episode preview suggests there's more to come, and it's all about to go shitty for Kud.  When she said in this episode that she remembered being imprisoned, it created a loose end.  Looks like it'll be tied up next episode, but it kinda feels like a jarring direction for the story to go in given Kud's past as recalled in this episode.  Interesting stuff, I guess.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: thanosmat on March 09, 2013, 10:56:16 PM
Kud remembering being imprisoned will be explained in Refrain. The same goes for Kyousuke and the disappearances of Mio and Haruka.  Next season I guess.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Sorrow-kun on March 09, 2013, 11:21:10 PM
Kud remembering being imprisoned will be explained in Refrain. The same goes for Kyousuke and the disappearances of Mio and Haruka.  Next season I guess.
I had an interesting discussion with Reckoner and ImperialX on Twitter a few days ago about Refrain and, as uninspiring as I've found LB to date, it sounds genuinely intriguing to me.  They were both extremely confident about this show getting a second season too.  I wait with bated breath, because it sounds like all the good stuff happens there.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: SQA on March 10, 2013, 02:53:48 PM
I believe Refrain is actually "most' of the story.  Everything we've been seeing is just character building.  That's a lot of character building.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: MCAL on March 10, 2013, 03:42:31 PM
Apparently the girl (Suginami I think) who gave Riki those field trip papers was played by Kana Hanazawa by some episode reviews. Well, that's just begging us to see that a field trip is important. How a field trip has anything to do with what the plot is, I have no idea, but I'm even more intrigued now. And as much as I haven't been bothered by the girl's routes (Except Komari's), I'm starting to wonder if Refrain is what makes this the best Key story ever. If it can justify some of the problems I've had (Mostly with the girl's resolutions), then I may rate the first season even higher. Basically, my first season score is subject to change.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Reckoner on March 10, 2013, 04:06:50 PM
I had an interesting discussion with Reckoner and ImperialX on Twitter a few days ago about Refrain and, as uninspiring as I've found LB to date, it sounds genuinely intriguing to me.  They were both extremely confident about this show getting a second season too.  I wait with bated breath, because it sounds like all the good stuff happens there.

Yeah, especially when the staff keeps telling us that every route will be adapted, and well that clearly isn't going to be possible in just two cours.

Another interesting point to make is that the only routes Maeda himself directly wrote are Refrain and Rin's route. So if Maeda is why you historically liked KEY, we haven't even got to his parts of the story really.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: thanosmat on March 10, 2013, 04:47:31 PM
Apparently the girl (Suginami I think) who gave Riki those field trip papers was played by Kana Hanazawa by some episode reviews. Well, that's just begging us to see that a field trip is important. How a field trip has anything to do with what the plot is, I have no idea, but I'm even more intrigued now. And as much as I haven't been bothered by the girl's routes (Except Komari's), I'm starting to wonder if Refrain is what makes this the best Key story ever. If it can justify some of the problems I've had (Mostly with the girl's resolutions), then I may rate the first season even higher. Basically, my first season score is subject to change.

The field trip is very important for the plot. Few noticed that.

I had an interesting discussion with Reckoner and ImperialX on Twitter a few days ago about Refrain and, as uninspiring as I've found LB to date, it sounds genuinely intriguing to me.  They were both extremely confident about this show getting a second season too.  I wait with bated breath, because it sounds like all the good stuff happens there.

Yeah, especially when the staff keeps telling us that every route will be adapted, and well that clearly isn't going to be possible in just two cours.

Another interesting point to make is that the only routes Maeda himself directly wrote are Refrain and Rin's route. So if Maeda is why you historically liked KEY, we haven't even got to his parts of the story really.

Another motive for the second season: Kurugaya's route will not be adapted this season. Her route deliberately left out, who played the VN can understand why.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: SQA on March 10, 2013, 06:31:14 PM
It's still selling 11k per volume, being one of JC Staff's highest selling projects ever.  It's getting a second season, though probably again in Fall, I'd imagine.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: AC on March 16, 2013, 07:20:44 PM
23:

So let me get this straight:

1) The tension in Tebwa has been around since the 19th century, yet no one raised the issue up before they decided to send Noumi back home? Really? It's like sending someone back to Somalia without realizing that the place isn't that safe in the first place...

2) Noumi saved herself with a charm that Noumi "telepathically Fedex-ed"? Seriously? And the whole tension in Tebwa was raised and then resolved by itself? Kinda makes me wonder how easily resolved longstanding civil unrest could be in real life...
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: MCAL on March 16, 2013, 07:21:08 PM
23:
Wow! Part of me can't believe they went that far. But if there is one thing I know, it's that only Key that could make this and (mostly) get away with it. As for why Kud was naked, well I probably don't want to think about that.

All in all Kud's story was pretty damn good. It was evenly paced, mysterious and melodramatic (But not tremendously so). If I were to really level a complaint, it was that the ending was deus ex machina, but I've been told that Refrain answers why magic is able to happen. Can't be sure they aren't saying things to justify everything, but I can give LB the benefit of the doubt. Nothing much more to say really. Kud was a much better character then Komari. Her seiyuu could actually get her voice to be sad and she was pretty much unconventional as a Moe Kyun girl. And I guess I am a sucker for Japanese spoken English. At the very least, there was a lot of main plot that kept me interested. Haruka and Mio were back. Definitely interesting. I give Kud's route an 8/10.

It looks like they saved the best stories for last, since the last three episode will mostly focus on the first baseball game. That will leave Kurugaya, Rin and Refrain for next season. My favorite character and the stories that Maeda wrote. Could be a nine. As for the first season as a whole, I'm stuck between a six and a seven. Depends on how the last episodes are I guess.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Sorrow-kun on March 16, 2013, 08:50:02 PM
1) The tension in Tebwa has been around since the 19th century, yet no one raised the issue up before they decided to send Noumi back home? Really? It's like sending someone back to Somalia without realizing that the place isn't that safe in the first place...
While there are a lot of things wrong with the idea of a country disintegrating over a national tragedy that actually didn't turn out to be a tragedy at all, I think the comparison with Somalia is way off the mark.  Seeing as how this is apparently a former Soviet colony in the southern Pacific, I'd liken it more to a riot/uprising in Fiji or Ukraine... most of the time the country is mostly safe for visitors with tension simmering just under the surface, but on the rare occasion shit breaks out, and one can't really blame visitors who get caught up in the crossfire for their bad timing.

But this particular riot, I don't understand.  If it was the failed launch that sparked the outbreak, why didn't TASA reveal that the astronauts were alive to try to defuse the conflict?  Obviously, when they finally did, things simmered down, but what was the hold up?  Why the need for the delayed reaction other than the suspense?  Could have saved a whole lot of heartbreak.

And yeah, the whole magically teleporting gearbox that magically broke Kud's chains as soon as she hit them... I guess one just needs to suspend disbelief.  A long way.  Like, a really long way.  All part of Key's brand of magical realism, which you just have to accept when buying into a Key story.  Not my favourite part of the whole thing, but oh well.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: MCAL on March 16, 2013, 09:53:03 PM
1) The tension in Tebwa has been around since the 19th century, yet no one raised the issue up before they decided to send Noumi back home? Really? It's like sending someone back to Somalia without realizing that the place isn't that safe in the first place...
While there are a lot of things wrong with the idea of a country disintegrating over a national tragedy that actually didn't turn out to be a tragedy at all, I think the comparison with Somalia is way off the mark.  Seeing as how this is apparently a former Soviet colony in the southern Pacific, I'd liken it more to a riot/uprising in Fiji or Ukraine... most of the time the country is mostly safe for visitors with tension simmering just under the surface, but on the rare occasion shit breaks out, and one can't really blame visitors who get caught up in the crossfire for their bad timing.

But this particular riot, I don't understand.  If it was the failed launch that sparked the outbreak, why didn't TASA reveal that the astronauts were alive to try to defuse the conflict?  Obviously, when they finally did, things simmered down, but what was the hold up?  Why the need for the delayed reaction other than the suspense?  Could have saved a whole lot of heartbreak.

And yeah, the whole magically teleporting gearbox that magically broke Kud's chains as soon as she hit them... I guess one just needs to suspend disbelief.  A long way.  Like, a really long way.  All part of Key's brand of magical realism, which you just have to accept when buying into a Key story.  Not my favourite part of the whole thing, but oh well.

I don't think the death of the kosmonauts was the problem. I think it was the explosion that did it. I believe they mentioned something about contamination last episode. I think the rebels called Kud's mother a traitor. It seemed that the rocket launch was a tool for the rest and that the explosion is what caused the rebellion. And I believe they said that that the army was able to get a hold of things. There's also the fact we don't know how much time really passed.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: TypicalIdiotFan on March 16, 2013, 10:17:19 PM
Yeah but... a rocket launch?  Even a failed one with drastic environmental consequences would probably not spark an outrage of this magnitude THIS quickly.  There is still a reasonable expectation of the people for the government to DO something about it.  It is only when the government can't or wont that faith in the system fails and the people get upset.  Not enough time has passed for even a tiny country to go through this kind of sociopolitical change.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: MCAL on March 16, 2013, 10:29:28 PM
Speaking of time passing, I noticed that the dates are always blocked out or censored. I think it happened first back in episode 9 (I know how many people hated that episode). Supports my dream world/time loop theory I suppose.

EDIT: Guess I could give a rating for arcs: 1.) Mio: high 8/10
                                                                    2.) Kud: low 8/10
                                                                    3.) Haruka/Kanata: low 7/10
                                                                    4.) Komari: low 4/10 (I keep changing that)
And I guess I could give a low 9/10 for common route episodes (The next episodes are focusing on some of the best parts of the common route so I don't see this changing). So yeah I'll probably give this season a low 7/10.

So my rankings for Key anime are: Kanon, Clannad After Story, Air, Little Busters (Season 1), and Clannad (Season 1).
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Fumoffu!! on March 17, 2013, 06:50:43 AM
Everyone is forgetting an important fact. We all know by now that everyone who isn't in the main cast or directly linked to them is a prick. That's why the conflict spread so quickly, they just wanted to be pricks on a huge scale (like the London Riots) so they just used the excuse of the failed Rocket Launch to justify them being massive pricks.

You people forget plot elements far too quickly....
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Sorrows Neptune on March 17, 2013, 08:36:27 PM
23:

I thought this was good episode, although it does require a good deal of suspension of disbelief. Throwing Kud into a war setting really drove up the tension, and her self-esteem issues and anxiety towards her mother continued to be compelling and believable.

I wasn't too irked by Kud being saved by by a total dues ex machina as the magical gearbox either, but only because I knew beforehand that it'll supposedly be explained in Refrain. Otherwise I'd probably have laughed at how random and confusing the scene was.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: MCAL on March 18, 2013, 04:12:07 PM
Just finished playing Kud's route:

The pacing of it all... was pretty out of wack. I mean 60% of the story focused on the test, which then played no part in the rest of the story. Looking at it, JC Staff did the right thing by having the test in just one episode and then splitting the rest up. Altthough, the events in episode 23 did have better build up in the VN (And my god, was the vice acting superb!). Still I think JC Staff did this version better, even though the romance was taken out. I don't think it was a detriment to the story at all. And also, there wasn't a resolution to Kud's mom at all in the VN. I don't even know if she was alive. I'd probably give the VN version a 7/10.

I also played her bad ending. Holy Sh*t! That was actually very disturbing. It's definitely something that could give a lesser man nightmares. Although it makes me wonder if, combined with what I think "The Secret of the World" is, what happened to Kud in Tebwa actually happened...

EDIT: So, JC Staff did Komari's route just fine (Not that it made the story any better), the VN did Mio's route (slightly) better then JC Staff, JC Staff did some things better in Haruka/Kanata's route better and some things worse where the result became neutral and JC Staff did Kud's route better. I guess this makes it a reasonable adaption, all things considered. This isn't Kyo-Ani level, but this is no way near DEEN's Umineko bad. Any VN reader like to agree with me? I still think JC Staff gets too much hate (Although maybe not from this forum), when I see that they have a clear respect for the material.

Although I'm kinda still unsure on why this VN is still considered the best. Is it really all because of Refrain? Is it that perfect a story that anything from the other routes can be forgiven? And is JC Staff doing something wrong with the implimentation of the BGM for the anime? I simply just don't see what's wrong.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Aelms on March 18, 2013, 06:44:24 PM
@MCAL

It's not only because of Refrain. Much of the character interaction, which I thought made the common route very amusing, was devoid of life in the anime. The characters routes themselves were adapted pretty well, particularly Kud's, but the most interesting parts pre-Refrain, such as
Kengo joining the LB and the small changes in the common route with every repetition
weren't adapted at all.

Some of the important visual motifs that are prominent in the VN were also given little consideration. LB! anime has its own individual value but I don't think it can replace the experience of actually reading the VN.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Reckoner on March 18, 2013, 07:15:55 PM
Doesn't mean we won't be seeing those scenes of the common route soon or next season though.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: MCAL on March 18, 2013, 07:33:28 PM
@MCAL

It's not only because of Refrain. Much of the character interaction, which I thought made the common route very amusing, was devoid of life in the anime. The characters routes themselves were adapted pretty well, particularly Kud's, but the most interesting parts pre-Refrain, such as
Kengo joining the LB and the small changes in the common route with every repetition
weren't adapted at all.

Some of the important visual motifs that are prominent in the VN were also given little consideration. LB! anime has its own individual value but I don't think it can replace the experience of actually reading the VN.

According to Episode Summaries,
The incident with Kengo is going to be covered in episode 25. As for the small changes, I think that's something the anime couldn't do no matter which company got it, so I'm not too negative on that.
I know what you mean by the common route episode not being as funny as they were in the VN, but I think JC Staff definitely improved with it since episode 15. In fact I've been enjoying the common route (In both anime and VN form) moreso than the character arcs.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Aelms on March 18, 2013, 09:08:41 PM
I kinda felt like more could have been done with the common route scenes. Many aspects of "The Secret of the World" is hinted in VN but almost not at all in the anime. More importantly, the close relationship of the original five members of the Little Busters is also almost completely lost.

Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Reckoner on March 20, 2013, 12:26:04 AM
23:

Honestly this is an improvement over its visual novel counterpart. While a little something is lost in the emotion of Kud's pleas to Riki (And a certain scene is cut out too) because the romance is axed out, the romance was cringe worthy to begin with in the VN, so net positive. They also have much stronger themes of friendship in the group than in the VN route here.

ALSO, as people said earlier, Kud's "deus ex machina" is part of KEY's magical realism but it alludes to something that won't be explained till Refrain.

Probably one of the more interesting scenes though was Kengo standing apart from the group at the end. A visualization of the distance between he and the Little Busters.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: MCAL on March 23, 2013, 06:53:54 PM
24:
The preperation for the puppet show was one of the funniest moments in the common route for me (Although it had nothing to do with the letters). And of course, Mio's acting had me laughing quite a bit again. The LBs reaction made it even funier than the VN. And that Dwarves story didn't even try to be subtle did it. That answered a lot of questions. So there are yaoi routes in Little Busters... I knew it! Who should I do first...? (lol) I realize that though it may not have looked like it, most of the episodes in LB have some form of importance to the story. Whether its the magical realism or the letters, which seem to help Rin grow as a character, or episodes focusing on introducing a major character or playing out their arc. Only episode 15 felt like pure filler with no importance to anything and that was helped by the episode being hilarious. It seems the more I go into LB, the more I underestimate it.

I still can't get used to Komori's voice though. I mean its not like her seiyuu is horrible. She did Chihiro in Ef and she was fantastic (And subtle) there. Key... Sometimes I don't know what you are thinking. Other than that, next episode will focus on the most interesting (And darkest) part of the common route. Can't wait.

EDIT: Ah, and does anyone notice the fat cat? I like him.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Aelms on March 23, 2013, 08:25:12 PM
24:

I'll admit that I wasn't too happy with the series overall but with that one moment near the end of the episode...
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Sorrow-kun on March 23, 2013, 08:38:39 PM
Ep 24

I'm surprised at how much I'm buying into this show, but I'm really captured by the mystery now.  Like, I genuinely want to find out who's sending Rin the messages, why they have the power of foresight, and the significance of Komari's Dwarf story.  Bring on the second season.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: TypicalIdiotFan on March 23, 2013, 10:18:36 PM
If I had my guess, I'd say that the significance of the dwarf story is alluding to Little Busters being the same plot as Angel Beats but done right.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: MCAL on March 24, 2013, 10:16:36 AM
If I had my guess, I'd say that the significance of the dwarf story is alluding to Little Busters being the same plot as Angel Beats but done right.

That's the feeling I'm getting too,but I still don't know the why, how and who? I'm looking foward to that.

I kinda felt like more could have been done with the common route scenes. Many aspects of "The Secret of the World" is hinted in VN but almost not at all in the anime. More importantly, the close relationship of the original five members of the Little Busters is also almost completely lost.

I feel the series has bombarded us with Secret of the World hints in the last three episodes, but I digress. While I definitely don't see the anime version as better, I'm not really seeing what makes the Visual Novel so special either. I enjoy it alot, but I don't see the "Best VN Key made" in it.

EDIT: Yet...
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: hyperknees91 on March 24, 2013, 11:24:45 AM
@MCAL have you finished Little busters? If not you'll probably see why when you finish it.

The only thing that's extraordinarily poor about the VN that JCstaff will most certainly do better (and kinda has already) is how Rin's character is handled. She just isn't main girl material in the visual novel and is more of a plot point (not that it really matters too much but still she feels out of place).
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Reckoner on March 24, 2013, 11:41:52 AM
Rin's characterization in the anime is already far better. In the VN she felt like a retard who never really understood much of what was going on. The group cohesion beyond the core Little Busters is also much better.

Next episode should be interesting. It's the long awaited time we get some Kengo focus.

@MCAL

Think of Clannad for a second. Would you get the hype unless you ever got to After Story? I think it's the same thing here.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: thanosmat on March 24, 2013, 11:51:46 AM
Rin's characterization in the anime is not better. In fact it makes no sense her progression in the anime. In the VN her advancement is slow and gradual and linked to the main plot. If she is "retarded" does not make her characterization worse, is actually the opposite in this case i think.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Reckoner on March 24, 2013, 11:59:11 AM
What do you mean it makes no sense? Within the context of solely the anime, they've done everything fine.

Plus in Refrain I was left totally unconvinced that Rin built any sort of friendship with the girls whatsoever. Here, I actually believe in it already. The reason why? Because she has more natural character interactions, even if they still drive home her shyness.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: hyperknees91 on March 24, 2013, 12:24:30 PM
Rin basically felt inhuman outside of a couple of scenes in the VN. She acted like she didn't give a crap about anyone but herself (hence why she was just a plot point). I have no idea why they were so lazy with Rin's character but my guess they just were forced to throw her in so they could have a heroine in the final routes to keep with visual novel tradition *sigh*

Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: thanosmat on March 24, 2013, 07:01:28 PM
What do you mean it makes no sense? Within the context of solely the anime, they've done everything fine.

Plus in Refrain I was left totally unconvinced that Rin built any sort of friendship with the girls whatsoever. Here, I actually believe in it already. The reason why? Because she has more natural character interactions, even if they still drive home her shyness.

It's not shown clearly why Rin starts getting more sociable. As shown in her route and Refrain, the reasons are deeper, and the anime seems to be all too easy.

EDIT: Some parts of Refrain were used in this episode. The roof scene for example. In the VN we see through Riki's eyes. This scene is show as a Rin's flashback in Refrain.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: MCAL on March 30, 2013, 10:43:46 PM
25:
Been so enthralled in playing Key's latest VN Rewrite that I forgot about the latest anime adaption of a Key VN. Refrain must be really f*cking fantastic, because Rewrite is the best Key VN to me right now.

Anyway... Suspicious, suspicious, suspicious. I just realized this, but ever since Kud's route I can't help but be overanalytical when watching an episode. Case in point, I would have missed it if I wasn't paying attention, but Kenjo's reaction to Kyosuke making Riki captain is different then the others. Almost like he's disapproving of it. And Kyosuke. You can't hide your suspicious aura anymore. Clearly we are looking at a time loop of some sorts. The question is why and what Kyosuke has to do with it I suspose? Well bring on the season 2.

I'm going to have to agree with Reckoner on this. Rin's character is a much better improvement in what I am seeing from the VN version of her. Much more character. In the VN the only emotions she seems to have are anger or obliviousness. It may get better in Rin's route and Refrain, but I haven't played those yet and the anime isn't up to that yet. So, how can I be clear on something I haven't seen?
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: thanosmat on March 31, 2013, 02:00:19 AM
25:
Been so enthralled in playing Key's latest VN Rewrite that I forgot about the latest anime adaption of a Key VN. Refrain must be really f*cking fantastic, because Rewrite is the best Key VN to me right now.

Rewrite Moon and Terra >> Refrain IMHO.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: AC on April 01, 2013, 02:33:14 AM
25:

Wow, this episode amazed me in more ways than one... and not in the good way. Where the hell did that whole "girl with right eye-patch" subplot even come from? The far left field? And seriously, what was up with the whole hallucination thing she had when on the ledge?

This episode is weird.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Sorrows Neptune on April 01, 2013, 10:06:55 AM
And seriously, what was up with the whole hallucination thing she had when on the ledge?

Probably just a visualization of how frightened she was, since trying to rush towards someone who's on the verge of jumping off a roof is a really awful way to handle a suicide attempt. That's why the Little Busters tried to stop the teachers from getting to her--so they wouldn't scare her and provoke her to jump.

A few things stretched my suspension of disbelief, but overall I'd say this was one of the best episodes of the series.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Reckoner on April 01, 2013, 01:14:46 PM
Yeah it's just a visualization of how frightened she was. And I agree, it's one of the best episodes of the series to date, and is a very important episode at that.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Sorrow-kun on April 06, 2013, 07:50:46 PM
Little Busters definitely had it's flaws, and inconsistencies, but despite being among the weaker Key anime adaptations, I can't deny my Key-fanboy nature at the end of the day.  Goddamn I can't wait for Refrain!

6/10 for this season, but an immeasurable number for my anticipation of the next.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: MCAL on April 07, 2013, 12:14:57 AM
26:
Damn! I couldn't have asked for a better sendoff of Little Busters. What an absolutely incredible ending. I'm not ashamed to admit the ending made me tear up a little. And the trailer for Refrain... I'm definitely starting to see why Little Busters could be so great. That trailer definitely suggest some sh*t hitting the fans soon. That it will focus on my favorite heroine and the routes Jun Maeda wrote is just icing on the LB cake.

Final:
Little Busters was a flawed anime and it was an equally flawed VN (Of what I played of course). The fact that JC Staff was animating it instead of Kyo-Ani doubtlessly made people hate it no matter what, but all around the adaption did some things better and some things worse where I end up thinking this was a very good and fairly equal adaption of source material. In fact, I think JC Staff was the perfect fit for LB. The studio gets friendship as a majority of their works involve friendship and LB is definitely a show about friendship. And now that it is over, I think I can say something I didn't realize this untill this episode ended... I love Little Busters. While I rank it below most Key Works (Including Rewrite which was fantastic by the way), that doesn't change how I enjoyed this show. I give LB a very high 7/10.

Can't wait untill Refrain. Little Busters Saikou!

EDIT: And just in case you weren't aware: Kurugaya is hot!
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Fumoffu!! on April 07, 2013, 05:07:38 AM
I'm going to give LB a 5, I liked it much more towards the end, but those earlier episodes were really bad, and throughout there were occasionally episodes that made me flip the table. Now that I like the series I imagine I'll respond to the next season much more favourably, but we'll just have to wait and see.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: AC on April 07, 2013, 07:13:10 AM
Final:

You know, now that I FINALLY know what the hell Refrain is supposed to be after seeing that last scene of this final episode, then it raises the question: why didn't Little Busters just focus right into such a story in the first place? Clannad jumped right into the drama and internal fights among themselves, so why didn't Little Busters do the same thing and instead played house? It took two whole cours to come to that potentially interesting storyline...?

--

My thoughts on Little Busters!:

This is perhaps one of the most talked shows before its premiere, all of which I didn't really care about. The whole talk about the masses being mad over Little Busters not being produced by Kyoto Animation had me wondering if it is something legitimate to get angry over, or are they just having too much sense of self-entitlement. I was only looking forward to seeing if it's going to be a good show or not, that's all. It turns out to be one disappointing show altogether.

The biggest problem I have with the show is that I feel that I'm simply watching kids playing house at a playground. It's nothing like what I have seen for previous Kyoto Animation: every episode starts with something stupid (not necessarily funny; just plain awkwardly stupid), every dramatic moment seems to be either exaggerated or gets resolved deus ex machina style, and I can't even relate to any of the characters on an emotional level. Heck, I don't even care for any of them. Character development doesn't seem to play an important role in this show, and the cast is simply forgettable.

It's a 5/10 for me. Looking forward to seeing what Refrain has to offer, but until then, I would just brush Little Busters aside. And just so you know, I'm not even sure how Kyoto Animation would've done the show differently had they produce it instead.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: TypicalIdiotFan on April 07, 2013, 02:21:49 PM
I would argue that Clannad's "real story" is the "After Story" part in the second season, but they didn't start right on that either.

You need all the background and buildup crap before getting to the meat and potatoes, I guess.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Reckoner on April 07, 2013, 02:55:40 PM
Final:

You know, now that I FINALLY know what the hell Refrain is supposed to be after seeing that last scene of this final episode, then it raises the question: why didn't Little Busters just focus right into such a story in the first place? Clannad jumped right into the drama and internal fights among themselves, so why didn't Little Busters do the same thing and instead played house? It took two whole cours to come to that potentially interesting storyline...?

Not to discredit your impression (I was really luke warm reading the VN until I hit refrain and Rin 2 myself), but I'm wondering if you're misrepresenting Clannad here. Clannad season 1 wasn't exactly a standard of good drama, the Fuko arc probably being worse than anything in Little Busters. Most of the hard core drama was in After Story. And if we're just talking individual arcs, Little Busters has them too. Lets not forget how silly Clannad often was either. Things like the Tomoyo combos, or Sunohara constantly making a fool of himself Masato style. That was all there. Girls like Kotomi had a very air headed feeling about them. etc.

Certainly Little Busters is heavier on the KEY comedy than Clannad, but not dramatically so.

Anyhow, like Clannad, much of Little Busters cannot be redeemed without the Refrain portion.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: The Big Guy on April 07, 2013, 03:04:37 PM
I just finished Rin2 of the VN, and I am very excited for Refrain. I have to ask though Reckoner, do you really consider Fuko's arc to be worse than Kurugaya's normal end abomination? Fuko's arc at least had some funny moments, while by comparison Kurugaya's arc has no redeeming qualities whatsoever.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: TypicalIdiotFan on April 07, 2013, 04:46:47 PM
Clannad season 1 wasn't exactly a standard of good drama, the Fuko arc probably being worse than anything in Little Busters.

**** YOUR couch.  I about weeped when Fuko reappeared for her sister's wedding.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: ImperialX on April 07, 2013, 07:43:59 PM
25:

That was really good. The foundation has been set in place. The real story is about to begin. 6/10 for the series. Massive props to J.C.Staff for making such boring segments from the visual novel slightly less boring in the anime.

And just so you know, I'm not even sure how Kyoto Animation would've done the show differently had they produce it instead.

Nothing. As a VN player I am extremely satisfied with everything J.C.Staff has done for this series. The only difference should KyoAni have picked this up would be the art, and overall production quality. However, in terms of storyboarding, this series was perfectly coherent to the original visual novel, and in some cases even improved it.

I think if J.C.Staff keeps up this great work, we will be in for a real treat for Refrain. They set up the foundations perfectly, and Refrain is where the plot of Little Busters truly starts. I consider Refrain to be the best work Key has written to date (yes, much better than After Story).
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Reckoner on April 07, 2013, 10:49:30 PM
**** YOUR couch.  I about weeped when Fuko reappeared for her sister's wedding.

I on the other hand almost belched. ;_;

I just finished Rin2 of the VN, and I am very excited for Refrain. I have to ask though Reckoner, do you really consider Fuko's arc to be worse than Kurugaya's normal end abomination? Fuko's arc at least had some funny moments, while by comparison Kurugaya's arc has no redeeming qualities whatsoever.

I consider Fuko's route to be the worst abomination KEY has ever churned out. Kururagaya's was at least very funny to me and had a very interesting ending. It also helps that she, alongside Mio, is LB's best female char IMO.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Aelms on April 08, 2013, 04:20:15 AM
Fuko's arc was a good reason why I liked Clannad in the first place; can't understand why someone would go as far as hating it. Kurugaya's route was also very interesting because it gave the most thought-provoking hint and focused on the chemistry of the original Little Busters.

That shot in the trailer seems to suggest that Kurugaya's route will be adapted, which I'm very interested in how J.C. Staff will go about.

Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: MCAL on April 08, 2013, 07:32:32 PM
I actually liked Fuko's arc in Clannad. It was Kotomi's arc I didn't like. It was a little too long for my tastes and uninteresting. Not to say Fuko's wasn't long either, I was just more interested in her story. Clannad needed more Tomoyo if you asked me, but I digress. I still enjoyed Little Busters more than Clannad (Just the first season of course)  and if Refrain is even better then Little Busters will officially be my favorite Key anime. Bring it!

Now if you'll excuse me I'm gonna watch all the pre-Kud episodes to see if I missed any hints for the Secret of the World. Little Busters Saikou!

EDIT: Now that I think about it, Clannad started going through the Fuko arc about four episodes in too.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Garuda on June 21, 2013, 06:39:41 AM
I actually liked Fuko's arc in Clannad. It was Kotomi's arc I didn't like. It was a little too long for my tastes and uninteresting. Not to say Fuko's wasn't long either, I was just more interested in her story. Clannad needed more Tomoyo if you asked me, but I digress. I still enjoyed Little Busters more than Clannad (Just the first season of course)  and if Refrain is even better then Little Busters will officially be my favorite Key anime. Bring it!

Now if you'll excuse me I'm gonna watch all the pre-Kud episodes to see if I missed any hints for the Secret of the World. Little Busters Saikou!

EDIT: Now that I think about it, Clannad started going through the Fuko arc about four episodes in too.

I think Fuko's arc was amazing, one of the most poignant part of Clannad, including After Story. Hopefully, Refrain will focus on one of the scenarios written by Jun Maeda, and according to those who played to the VN, it is supposedly the best work he has ever done, so we shouldn't be disappointed...
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Akira on June 21, 2013, 08:27:47 PM
I actually mis-read the title of this thread as Angel Beats!

Also, I heard that they're bundling some crucial scenario in the VN as a Blu-ray extra or something. Hello, Kanon 2002. Didn't think I'd see that marketing strategy again.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: TypicalIdiotFan on June 22, 2013, 10:29:59 AM
I actually mis-read the title of this thread as Angel Beats!

Ha.

I think I made this joke already.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Reckoner on September 30, 2013, 12:56:00 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUxSIsk5THc

Well Refrain is premiering sometime this week I believe.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: hyperknees91 on September 30, 2013, 01:38:10 PM
If Refrain is only going to be 13 episodes it's going to suck.

If it's 26 it'll be quite enjoyable.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: SQA on September 30, 2013, 01:42:44 PM
If Refrain is only going to be 13 episodes it's going to suck.

If it's 26 it'll be quite enjoyable.

JC Staff isn't big on split cour shows, but that could happen. 
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: MCAL on September 30, 2013, 02:28:35 PM
It makes zero sense for JC Staff to make Refrain a one cour show. I mean, you're going to end up losing money and pissing off lots of fans and I know JC Staff and Key don't want to do that (I mean Visual Art's president said so himself).

Meanwhile... I am still waiting for that OVA...
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: hyperknees91 on September 30, 2013, 04:39:25 PM
Well it's more like...refrain by itself should at the bare minimum be at least 10 episodes. Also it should be given to a different director who knows how to handle that kind of stuff.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Kiniest on September 30, 2013, 06:56:15 PM
Oh, god, where'd this entire "13 episode" rumor come from? Please, 26 episodes, please, 26 episodes...
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Sorrow-kun on September 30, 2013, 07:54:35 PM
Oh, god, where'd this entire "13 episode" rumor come from? Please, 26 episodes, please, 26 episodes...
From paranoid fanboys who don't have any faith in J.C. Staff.  I can't see any reason why it wouldn't be 26 episodes.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Kiniest on September 30, 2013, 08:24:14 PM
Oh, god, where'd this entire "13 episode" rumor come from? Please, 26 episodes, please, 26 episodes...
From paranoid fanboys who don't have any faith in J.C. Staff.  I can't see any reason why it wouldn't be 26 episodes.
Oh, so it has boiled down to general lack of faith in J.C. Staff despite the fact the adaptation wasn't that bad to begin with. Why are people assuming this?
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: thanosmat on September 30, 2013, 08:27:28 PM
Name of the first four episodes

1話「それは突然やってきた」  -->

2話「そのときも雨が降っていた」 -->

3話「ずっとここにいたかった」 -->

4話「理樹と鈴」

The first 3 is Kurugaya Route. The 4 is Rin Route.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: thanosmat on September 30, 2013, 08:29:25 PM
And confirmed Little Buster EX anime adapting the routes of secondary heroines, and the new heroine.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: MCAL on September 30, 2013, 09:25:42 PM
The rumors come from the fact that it would seem Kurugaya's route will be only three episodes (I have slight doubts though. And by that I mean doubts of this information's correctness), a song symbolizing Rin's route (though the title could refer to an event in Kurugaya's route) appearing (confirmed as far as I can tell) at episode 6 and the fact that EX was announced very early... and no faith whatsoever in JC Staff.

But like I said Refrain being only one cour makes no bloody sense. Refrain (The arc) is basically as long as After Story (Refrian is just about 200 lines longer) and AS took 14 episodes to finish.

My guess will be this: Kurugaya's route will be three episodes, Rin 1 will just be two, Rin 2 will be five and Refrain will last the rest of it (16 episodes).
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: TypicalIdiotFan on September 30, 2013, 10:29:50 PM
Quote
But like I said Refrain being only one cour makes no bloody sense. Refrain (The arc) is basically as long as After Story (Refrian is just about 200 lines longer) and AS took 14 episodes to finish.

After Story could have had some fat trimmed down rather easily and fit into 13 or fewer episodes.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: MCAL on October 01, 2013, 12:11:46 AM
Quote
But like I said Refrain being only one cour makes no bloody sense. Refrain (The arc) is basically as long as After Story (Refrian is just about 200 lines longer) and AS took 14 episodes to finish.

After Story could have had some fat trimmed down rather easily and fit into 13 or fewer episodes.

True, but I am trying to say Refrain won't fit in one cour with two other arcs to deal with. That means the max the Refrain arc could get is seven episodes and there's no way After Story would have worked in seven episodes.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: TypicalIdiotFan on October 01, 2013, 12:20:28 AM
The major events of AS were told in a less than two hour theatrical release. While your mileage may vary on how good the Clannad movie was, it still demonstrated plausible feasibility in condensing source material.

You're been talking like Refrain being done in an arbitrary number of episodes is impossible, or difficult.  It isn't, really.  I could condense the story into 15 minutes if I wanted to, and it would probably suck balls.  So what you should be asking isn't whether it could, but whether it SHOULD.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: hyperknees91 on October 01, 2013, 01:11:23 PM
Well the Clannad movie did have a better ending than the actual series I'll give it that.

But in that sense they changed how the story was done. If they want to do that with refrain then fine as long as its done well I'm actually ok with that. However if it's just going to follow the visual novel exactly it's more beneficial for it to be longer.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: TypicalIdiotFan on October 01, 2013, 04:15:05 PM
Again, though, this is a discussion of "should" and not "could".  Though I would also argue that you folks are overestimating the importance of including what you feel is appropriate or necessary for the story of Refrain to be told without a measurable loss of important points or elements.  I'm not sure that's the case.  But having not played Little Busters!, I really don't have a leg to stand on here.

I would argue that, the problem with having a mentality that they "can't" do it going in to the series, you're setting yourself up for a confirmation bias.  If you already think the show is going to fail by not giving it what you consider to be an appropriate number of episodes, you might miss the quality of the show as it is for what you consider to be oversights.  The other problem is that you can't predict how it will turn out with any sense of accuracy.  JC Staff's writers and directors might already have a really good idea of what they want to do, and it might work.  But you wont know if it does until you've seen it.

You're essentially left with two options:  don't watch it or watch it and judge for yourself.  You really can't judge until it is done whether they've made a mistake or not.  They might surprise you and pull it off.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: hyperknees91 on October 01, 2013, 04:41:23 PM
True enough, it'd be surprising if they could it off in a short time frame without it coming off too rushed in a sense. Though I guess I did prefer the Air movie to the Air TV series so it could always work like that as well.

Frankly I'd want them to change the ending if they weren't intending on adapting it perfectly but that's just me I suppose.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: hyperknees91 on October 05, 2013, 08:36:39 AM
1: lawl kyousuke and his guitar.

I believe its confirmed to be 13 episodes now, so we'll just see how it goes. Seems fine so far though.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Kiniest on October 05, 2013, 08:43:34 AM
1: lawl kyousuke and his guitar.

I believe its confirmed to be 13 episodes now, so we'll just see how it goes. Seems fine so far though.

Who confirmed that?
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: hyperknees91 on October 05, 2013, 08:48:26 AM
http://oi40.tinypic.com/le1d0.jpg

Source code from the website only list 13 episodes. So not totally confirmed as they could surprise.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Kiniest on October 05, 2013, 08:56:36 AM
http://oi40.tinypic.com/le1d0.jpg

Source code from the website only list 13 episodes. So not totally confirmed as they could surprise.

They might have only made 13 episodes or so, so far. Or maybe they're only listing half of those.

1: It will be a massive pity if this series is only 13 episodes, because it's already fantastic in comparision to the last season. This is proof that being JC Staff isn't going to ruin its quality. This was actually better than the actual route. But, it does indeed seem like it's setting up for a single cour, which will suck. Because they could totally do a lot if they took the time to do so. That being said, the animation and comedy were a lot better than the first season. The presentation is also fantastic.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: hyperknees91 on October 05, 2013, 09:20:44 AM
Oh wait the opening singer just tweeted it's 26. Never mind then hah.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Kiniest on October 05, 2013, 09:26:33 AM
Oh wait the opening singer just tweeted it's 26. Never mind then hah.

https://twitter.com/Ritaco25 Yep. Refrain is going to be pretty cool. Especially if it keeps up this quality.

By the way, when I say "this quality", I don't mean that Refrain's already supposed to be great. I'm saying that the sense of tone provided hints that JC Staff knows what they're doing. They're going the proper direction with Refrain, and adding some style onto it to make it more worthwhile. Although, I wish they were a bit more subtle with all the hints they've been giving out.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Garuda on October 05, 2013, 09:27:58 AM
I haven't seen it yet, but from what I read, everything seems to indicate that all the parts written by Jun Maeda are actually much better than the rest (Rin Route or Refrain). I would also have a question : Is Little Busters tearjerker material like Clannad, Air and Kanon ?
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Kiniest on October 05, 2013, 09:30:13 AM
I haven't seen it yet, but from what I read, everything seems to indicate that all the parts written by Jun Maeda are actually much better than the rest (Rin Route or Refrain). I would also have a question : Is Little Busters tearjerker material like Clannad, Air and Kanon ?

I wasn't quite as sad reading Little Busters as I was Clannad, but it's certainly brilliant, at the very least. It's brilliant enough to even make a lot of what came before quite a bit more cathartic.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: hyperknees91 on October 05, 2013, 09:31:38 AM
Little busters is THE tearjerker. No exaggeration at all.

Rins route is good but Rin isn't a good character (in terms of the visual novel) JC Staff has handled her 10 times better.

But yes Refrain is the reason for Little Busters. It's what makes the whole story truly great.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: MCAL on October 05, 2013, 10:27:46 AM
1:
I think the lesson to take away from this is "Don't mess with Kurugaya Yuiko! Just don't!"

So now with 26 episodes confirmed, but only three episodes with Kurugaya it seems, there will be 23 for Rin and Refrain. Kind of worried they wouldn't be able to finish her route well, but I can see it working pretty damn well.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Kiniest on October 05, 2013, 10:32:10 AM
1:
I think the lesson to take away from this is "Don't mess with Kurugaya Yuiko! Just don't!"

So now with 26 episodes confirmed, but only three episodes with Kurugaya it seems, there will be 23 for Rin and Refrain. Kind of worried they wouldn't be able to finish her route well, but I can see it working pretty damn well.

Actually, the lesson is "Don't **** with her friends". She loses her shit because they threaten to ruin the Little Buster's friendship. She didn't mind any of that stuff prior to Riki (in the VN) or Kud/Komari (in the anime) getting bullied.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Reckoner on October 05, 2013, 10:43:22 AM
Remember that Little Busters EX! was announced so it's quite possible in fact that they will be adding some EX material in here... We'll see though.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Kiniest on October 05, 2013, 10:44:31 AM
Remember that Little Busters EX! was announced so it's quite possible in fact that they will be adding some EX material in here... We'll see though.

I wouldn't mind that. With 26 episodes at hand, we have plenty of time to go through Refrain, Rin, Kurugaya, and some.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: hyperknees91 on October 05, 2013, 10:51:28 AM
Also Mio's visual novel seiyuu is back, I always felt like the new one did fine and they should have just left it that way for consistency's sake.

You know if it's really 26, the other girls would actually probably play a bigger part in refrain possibly.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: MCAL on October 05, 2013, 11:04:31 AM
1:
I think the lesson to take away from this is "Don't mess with Kurugaya Yuiko! Just don't!"

So now with 26 episodes confirmed, but only three episodes with Kurugaya it seems, there will be 23 for Rin and Refrain. Kind of worried they wouldn't be able to finish her route well, but I can see it working pretty damn well.

Actually, the lesson is "Don't **** with her friends". She loses her shit because they threaten to ruin the Little Buster's friendship. She didn't mind any of that stuff prior to Riki (in the VN) or Kud/Komari (in the anime) getting bullied.

Either way... you don't want to catch her wrath.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Kiniest on October 05, 2013, 11:13:29 AM
I'm expecting the other folks to be unimpressed to begin with, yet liking this series significantly more than the earlier season. It'll get a lot better, nonetheless. This episode confirmed the potential this series has as an adaptation.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Sorrow-kun on October 05, 2013, 05:07:06 PM
I shouldn't be so petty, but I'm starting with a big "told you so" regarding the 26 ep run.  I'm convinced the whole 13 episode stuff started as rumours by people who wanted another excuse to shit on J.C. Staff.  There was no reason to think that given that, as far as I understand, the whole Little Busters adaptation has been fairly loyal so far.  The anime has had problems, but nothing it's done has ever been rushed.

Anyway, despite my misgivings about the first season, I've been letting my anticipation for this season basically stew for the last six months.  It's not like I've been sitting in the corner of my room creepily counting down the number of days, hours and minutes left until the start of Refrain, but as an approximation for my mind-state, that's not that far off.  So yeah, to say I'm hyped is an understatement.

And ep 1 delivered.  That's one of the best episodes of Little Busters we've seen.

It's clear at this point that there's some kind of "endless recursion of time" thing going on with Kyousuke.  The hints were pretty strong in the first season but they basically spell it out here.  The important questions at the point are "who remembers what" and, more importantly, "why".  What is Kyousuke trying to achieve?

It looks like they've saved the more weighty arcs for the second season.  Only the first episode and already this arc looks like it could have more emotional impact than any of the ones we saw in the first season. Could be a very good decision in the end.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: MCAL on October 05, 2013, 11:16:36 PM
Welp... Now the 26 episode tweet has been deleted. Now we are back to not knowing again... :(

EDIT: Mind you, just because it was deleted, does not mean it is wrong.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: SQA on October 06, 2013, 12:11:23 AM
It might be split-cours, though.  That's still entirely possible.  I don't know anything about Refrain's story progression, so I don't know if there'd be a decent place to stop for 3 months, but split-cours might actually make more sense.   That'd drop the final part in the Spring Season.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Sorrows Neptune on October 06, 2013, 12:59:05 AM
1:

I guess I'm not the only one who thinks this is already shaping up to be a lot better than the first season.

I'm curious how the EX adaption will fit into all this, since presumably the routes that it introduces are non-essential to Refrain. Maybe it'll be an interquel?
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Fumoffu!! on October 06, 2013, 04:13:54 AM
1:

I may just have let this grow on me, but I liked this episode a great deal more than any of the episodes in the previous season.

Hoping for good things, expecting average things.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: thanosmat on October 06, 2013, 01:33:29 PM
I can't see why the writers do rape with something simple. Riki being replaced by other characters (Kud and Komari) in the important events of route does not make sense. And the writers also don't understand the message of the route.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: MCAL on October 06, 2013, 01:37:59 PM
I can't see why the writers do rape with something simple. Riki being replaced by other characters (Kud and Komari) in the important events of route does not make sense. And the writers also don't understand the message of the route.

I think it makes perfect sense within the anime narrative. Just because it wasn't that way in the VN, doesn't automatically mean it doesn't make sense. And this is coming from a guy who thinks Kurugaya is the best Key heroine ever and loves her route too.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: thanosmat on October 06, 2013, 01:45:45 PM
I can't see why the writers do rape with something simple. Riki being replaced by other characters (Kud and Komari) in the important events of route does not make sense. And the writers also don't understand the message of the route.

I think it makes perfect sense within the anime narrative. Just because it wasn't that way in the VN, doesn't automatically mean it doesn't make sense. And this is coming from a guy who thinks Kurugaya is the best Key heroine ever and loves her route too.

For me doesn't make sense storywise. One of the themes, is Riki solve problems on his own, no the others for him. 
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: MCAL on October 06, 2013, 01:54:10 PM
I can't see why the writers do rape with something simple. Riki being replaced by other characters (Kud and Komari) in the important events of route does not make sense. And the writers also don't understand the message of the route.

I think it makes perfect sense within the anime narrative. Just because it wasn't that way in the VN, doesn't automatically mean it doesn't make sense. And this is coming from a guy who thinks Kurugaya is the best Key heroine ever and loves her route too.

For me doesn't make sense storywise. One of the themes, is Riki solve problems on his own, no the others for him.

I don't understand... what does changing the targets of bullying to Kud and Komari have to do with Riki solving problems? Or maybe you are talking about the resolution. In that case while it is shortened, the way it happens is still relatively the same. Riki finds the bullies, Kurugaya comes in with recordings of the bullies and then proceeds to scare them sh*tless like a boss.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: hyperknees91 on October 06, 2013, 03:35:22 PM
I actually highly prefer most of the changes in the anime. Focusing on the entire group and the friendship rather than romantic catalyst is much more fitting if you ask me.

I can't think of much I actually prefer in the visual novel, which is odd for me.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Aelms on October 10, 2013, 08:23:51 AM
Saving Kurugaya's route for Refrain seems to be one of the better decisions JC Staff made, if the first episode is anything to tell by. What I'm really concerned with (VN spoilers)

is how the passing of time and chronology is being handled. Instead of spelling out the fact that the individual stories are part of a cyclical process, like in the VN, the anime chose to have a single narrative where every route happens. Furthermore, Kurugaya's route has also happened in a past cycle.

I'm having trouble grasping whether the previous cycle only includes events from Kurugaya's route (more likely) or whether the anime chronology is also included. Regardless of either, the timeline seems to have reset with the end of the Kurugaya route which we have hints of their previous romantic relationship to tell by.

I'd have preferred if they chose the Higurashi format for the entire adaptation.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: hyperknees91 on October 12, 2013, 07:25:05 AM
2: No love love hunters but still a hilarious and heart-warming episode. I'm more than certain it can only be 13 episodes now, which is a tad disappointing but I'm really enjoying what they've been giving us. So it's possible this could be like steins gate (good directing can go a long way). We shall see.

A shame they are hinting at a Rin romance. I mean she's a much much muchhh better character then in the VN. However I really wish they didn't have any romance and just focused on friendship like all the other girls.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Kiniest on October 12, 2013, 09:34:37 AM
2: I wouldn't say 13 episodes is 100 percent set in stone just yet. But if it is, then it'll be a tad bit fast. Not to say it'll ruin it, but it won't be as great to the same effect that AS was. The direction is fantastic, here, though, so don't get me wrong.

I like how they're handling Kurugaya's arc. It works out very well. Most people were forgetting the point of Kurugaya's arc, and what it's all about. The way JC Staff is handling it shows they know exactly what they are doing. I wouldn't be surprised if the series were short, but I hope that Staff has the mind to at least pull it 16 episodes or so as opposed to 13.

Refrain could easily be compacted into 16 episodes, no problem. 13 is a bit tight.

Also, the formation of the Loli-Loli Hunters has begun.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: MCAL on October 12, 2013, 11:03:56 AM
2:
You know, that was a brilliant way of executing events of Kurugaya's route with the limited amount of episodes they have. As a Kurugaya route fan (She was my favorite heroine route in the game), I am impressed.

And have I mentioned how much better Rin is compared to the VN. Like, it's pretty staggering how much better a character she is.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: thanosmat on October 12, 2013, 11:47:47 AM
I think I not played the same VN you guys played. Only explanation I can find.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Kiniest on October 12, 2013, 11:57:01 AM
I think I not played the same VN you guys played. Only explanation I can find.

I don't see why you couldn't compact Refrain into 15-16 episodes. 13 is a bit rough, though.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: TypicalIdiotFan on October 12, 2013, 12:37:02 PM
I really wish you ****ers would stop talking about this.  It will be what it will be.  Bitch then.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: hyperknees91 on October 12, 2013, 12:37:26 PM
Quote
And have I mentioned how much better Rin is compared to the VN. Like, it's pretty staggering how much better a character she is.

Rin wasn't a character at all in the VN. She was just a plot point, friggin terrible how they handled her. I really think she was just there because they needed an excuse to have a heroine in the last route. Guess they couldn't go against VN tradition.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Kiniest on October 12, 2013, 12:39:26 PM
I really wish you ****ers would stop talking about this.  It will be what it will be.  Bitch then.

You're asking an anime community to stop bitching about stuff they know nothing about. That's basically asking the impossible!
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: MCAL on October 12, 2013, 12:44:51 PM
I really wish you ****ers would stop talking about this.  It will be what it will be.  Bitch then.

Well I've been thinking nothing but positive thoughts and I am still optimistic whether it's 13, 16 or 26 episodes.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: thanosmat on October 12, 2013, 01:00:31 PM
Quote
And have I mentioned how much better Rin is compared to the VN. Like, it's pretty staggering how much better a character she is.

Rin wasn't a character at all in the VN. She was just a plot point, friggin terrible how they handled her. I really think she was just there because they needed an excuse to have a heroine in the last route. Guess they couldn't go against VN tradition.

I respectfully disagree, this can be said for a lot more things (any character in any work is a plot point by definition). But its ok, it's your opinion.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: hyperknees91 on October 12, 2013, 01:03:49 PM
Obviously I'm exaggerating but nonetheless I felt she was the most shallow character in the whole story.

Not the same case here at all. JC Staff has done well in making her fairly likable and sympathetic. Especially in the handling of her and Komari's friendship is done much better.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Reckoner on October 13, 2013, 12:06:03 PM
2:

Surprising but sensible way that JC staff is choosing to adapt this. Kurugaya's arc doesn't disappoint but it's still funny to see all the VN readers try to tear JC staff down even though they've been doing a very good job so far.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Fumoffu!! on October 13, 2013, 04:56:36 PM
2:

I actually really like the new season so far, perhaps all the characters have grown on me now. I don't give two shits about the source material.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: AC on October 19, 2013, 06:46:20 AM
1 & 2:

ENDLESS EIGHT? Are you shittin' me.

And the incoherent small gibberish talk, oh how I love to hate them.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Kiniest on October 19, 2013, 08:09:26 AM
1 & 2:

ENDLESS EIGHT? Are you shittin' me.

And the incoherent small gibberish talk, oh how I love to hate them.

Gotta hate Little Busters~ Gotta hate Little Busters~ Gotta hate Little Busters~
Say it with me!
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: hyperknees91 on October 19, 2013, 10:11:24 AM
3: Oh my heart feels stabbed...all over againnnnn

Maybe it's a good thing kyo-ani didn't get this series after all.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Kiniest on October 19, 2013, 10:35:09 AM
3: Well, that was certainly better than the source material. The people saying JC Staff screwed Little Busters up need to kind of get off their asses and watch this. This might be the best KEY series in only 13 episodes. Air and Angel Beats and Kanon were pretty weak for what they were, due to pacing issues. KyoAni and PA Works could actually learn a bit from JC Staff.

This was quite a bit less confusing than the source material, and serves as fantastic set-up for the rest of the series to come. It looks like we'll be going a bit fast, so my biggest problem is that we're served an absolute mood shift from the first season so immediately. Regardless, this will be a great season.

This episode also served another purpose: Showing the kinks of Riki's character. He is very, very dependant. It's been clear throughout the series that Riki admires Kyousuke, but this is the first time where it's flat out stated that Riki relies far too much on Kyousuke. Instead of going to Kurugaya again and dealing with her face to face, his first assumption is to talk to Kyousuke. When that fails, he's forced to go ahead and deal with it. Here it is apparent that he CAN deal with a situation by himself if he needs to, but never tries to, because he assumes that he can't. This is going to be a focal point sooner on.

How about you non-VN readers, was this completely confusing to you? If it was, then you should expect to understand it by the end of the series, or, at least, if you look at it again, it will make quite a bit more sense.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: MCAL on October 19, 2013, 11:00:41 AM
3:
In case anyone is wondering, Refrain has been confirmed for 13 episodes. Anyway...

I was concerned about Refrain being announced to be thirteen episodes...... Then I watched episode 3 and I forgot what I was concerned about or that I was concerned about anything for that matter.

EDIT: As for the episode, I really liked it. Though there was one scene I would have liked to see, this was still better than the VN. They even explained the "secret" better...
And I thought the drama stayed pretty subtle... been a while since Key has done that (Kanon).
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: hyperknees91 on October 19, 2013, 01:09:39 PM
Yeah I don't really care about the episode number anymore. JC Staff knows what their doing so I'm just going to trust them with that.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: TypicalIdiotFan on October 19, 2013, 01:51:31 PM
I hate you all so much.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: thanosmat on October 19, 2013, 01:52:05 PM
Quote
3: Well, that was certainly better than the source material. The people saying JC Staff screwed Little Busters up need to kind of get off their asses and watch this. This might be the best KEY series in only 13 episodes. Air and Angel Beats and Kanon were pretty weak for what they were, due to pacing issues. KyoAni and PA Works could actually learn a bit from JC Staff.

I am one of those people and I watched everything. Sue me.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Kiniest on October 19, 2013, 02:18:56 PM
I hate you all so much.

Yes, us anime noobies are the worst on the planet and should stfu about the episode amount.

Although, TiF, how are you about this season? Are you liking it, disliking it? It's kind of hard to tell.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: MCAL on October 19, 2013, 02:31:27 PM
I hate you all so much.
It was a joke. I really am fine with thirteen episodes.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: hyperknees91 on October 19, 2013, 04:01:11 PM
I hate you all so much.
It was a joke. I really am fine with thirteen episodes.

Eh it's not really something that isn't not worth discussion. It's kinda like talking about a game that was promised 30-40 hours but ends up being 15.

But yeah we can drop that for now.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Sorrow-kun on October 19, 2013, 04:55:49 PM
Eh it's not really something that isn't not worth discussion. It's kinda like talking about a game that was promised 30-40 hours but ends up being 15.

But yeah we can drop that for now.
I'm not sure that's a valid comparison since gaming and anime are such vastly different storytelling media.  I mean, game-makers still aren't anywhere close to understanding the full potential and limits of games as a storytelling media.  They seem to be discovering new things all the time.

So yeah, as tempting as it is to weigh into the whole episode count debate, I'm going to resist since it's pretty much been done to death, and the far more interesting discussion topic is the best arc of Little Busters we've seen so far.  That's pretty much the first time so far that I've watched Little Busters and thought "ah, yes, this is Key."

The potential impact was kinda muted by the fact that it didn't feel like an ending at all... it was more like the set-up to something much bigger.  Yuiko clearly knows more about what's going to happen to Riki (and how it involves Rin) than she's letting on.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: TypicalIdiotFan on October 19, 2013, 06:28:24 PM
Quote
Although, TiF, how are you about this season? Are you liking it, disliking it? It's kind of hard to tell.

In general?  Blows.  There is not one show head and shoulders above anything, few good, most mediocre, and a shit ton of ****ing garbage.

Specific to Little Busters?  I'm actually two episodes behind, so I'll let you know when I get there.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Kiniest on October 19, 2013, 08:15:36 PM
Quote
Although, TiF, how are you about this season? Are you liking it, disliking it? It's kind of hard to tell.

In general?  Blows.  There is not one show head and shoulders above anything, few good, most mediocre, and a shit ton of ****ing garbage.

Specific to Little Busters?  I'm actually two episodes behind, so I'll let you know when I get there.

Ah, I was actually talking about Little Busters in specific, so that was my fault for being too vague.

But yeah, the season sucks. Even with some good shows, we don't have a Psycho Pass, Shinsekai Yori, or Civilization Blaster to really make the season worthwhile. But anyone who's been following more than 4 shows this season should know that. I suppose it's fairly obvious.

2013 really has been a shitty year for introductory seasons.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: TypicalIdiotFan on October 19, 2013, 11:44:48 PM
Now that I'm caught up...

2-3:

This is her route?  She gets to experience an Endless Eight then vanish from the cast?  I don't think I could come up with a worse treatment of a character if I tried.

Was never buying the romance angle.  In fact, that seems to be my major problem with every arc so far in Little Busters.  I'm not buying anything.  I don't care about the characters and I find their individual situations to be so god damned bizarre that it is impossible to relate.  So by the end of this, with the pastel farewell, I honestly didn't care.  Was it effective?  Sure, but no emotional reaction from me other than being impressed with the directorial choice in animation style.

God I hope Refrain is worth all this.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: hyperknees91 on October 20, 2013, 12:55:46 PM
Quote
Although, TiF, how are you about this season? Are you liking it, disliking it? It's kind of hard to tell.

In general?  Blows.  There is not one show head and shoulders above anything, few good, most mediocre, and a shit ton of ****ing garbage.

Specific to Little Busters?  I'm actually two episodes behind, so I'll let you know when I get there.

Ah, I was actually talking about Little Busters in specific, so that was my fault for being too vague.

But yeah, the season sucks. Even with some good shows, we don't have a Psycho Pass, Shinsekai Yori, or Civilization Blaster to really make the season worthwhile. But anyone who's been following more than 4 shows this season should know that. I suppose it's fairly obvious.

2013 really has been a shitty year for introductory seasons.

2013 is more a year for shounen fans. White Album 2 has potential to be pretty great if you ask me, for a romance/drama that is.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Sorrows Neptune on October 23, 2013, 06:08:29 PM
3:

I think this episode did a better job of getting me more pumped up for Refrain more than anything else, since the ending was basically just a huge tease saying we'll have to wait until Refrain before we get any sort of proper closure or explanation for Kurugaya's story arc.

It was still a good episode though, and just like with past story arcs I'll give Little Busters the benefit of the doubt and assume that we really will get a proper explanation once Refrain comes around.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Kiniest on October 26, 2013, 08:22:06 AM
4: You know, I've always felt like there was a problem with Riki just flat out ignoring that confession and dating Rin. At least, in the VN, he apologizes about choosing Rin instead, but he always just brushes the confession aside like it's water. He's not much different from Rin in that light. I get that he has problems, but he's just rude, in this case. In this adaptation, he takes it even further and never talks to the girl again. What the hell is that?

Also, I'm not sure about the scene near the end with the girls. It seems contradictory to foreshadowing shown throughout the series.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: hyperknees91 on October 26, 2013, 10:59:35 AM
4: Lawl everything is wrong about the confession in the VN. It might be the most random and worthless way to pair up Riki with Rin they could have ever thought of. Here's hoping their relationship isn't as empty as the VN (I mean it's already better, but I still doubt they can make them a believable couple. They literally have no romantic chemistry).

Ironically they made him just friends with all the other girls and I thought that was a wise choice. I just wish they did the same with Rin because I think that would have made the following situation with her a lot more believable. The only girls Riki really has any chemistry with are Mio and Kurugaya so yeah.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: MCAL on October 26, 2013, 11:15:50 AM
Not exactly a good episode to have watched right after the Mashiro-iro Symphony...

4:
Truth be told this was probably my least favorite episode of this season, but truth be told I could say the same for the source material, although the anime was slightly better due to Rin difference in character. The scene with the other girls was definitely the best part of the episode and another "JC Staff improved things" moment.

EDIT: Having watched the episode again, I liked it better the second time. It did make me laugh a lot. 7/10 instead of a 6/10 and considering the weakest episodes from last season could net a 4/10 (Mostly in Komari's route), that's still a good score.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Kiniest on October 26, 2013, 11:33:34 AM
4: Lawl everything is wrong about the confession in the VN. It might be the most random and worthless way to pair up Riki with Rin they could have ever thought of. Here's hoping their relationship isn't as empty as the VN (I mean it's already better, but I still doubt they can make them a believable couple. They literally have no romantic chemistry).

Ironically they made him just friends with all the other girls and I thought that was a wise choice. I just wish they did the same with Rin because I think that would have made the following situation with her a lot more believable. The only girls Riki really has any chemistry with are Mio and Kurugaya so yeah.

I honestly feel like the only girl Riki ever had any chemistry with was Kurugaya. Which is why I'm sad they didn't go that route when they could have. But, I'm more concerned about how they just ignored Riki's being confessed to by the random girl from Kurugaya's arc like that than I am Riki and Rin's lack of chemistry. Episode 6 and 7 should be good if they do Rin's route in those two. Not sure how they could compact it to just 6, though.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: hyperknees91 on October 26, 2013, 11:36:38 AM
I see your point and yeah it doesn't even fit Riki's personality to do something like that. JC. Staff quite honestly should have just took that whole plot thread out.

I love how the animation quality dropped for this episode. You can see who JC. Staff's favorite girl is haha.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Reckoner on October 26, 2013, 11:54:31 AM
This will probably be the season's weakest episode (Or second, depending on something down the line...). This just comes down to Jun Maeda not understanding how to write in romance into his stories whatsoever. How he pairs up in Rin and Riki in the story is fairly worthless, especially after we see the great chemistry he had with Kurugaya last arc. The rest of Rin's arc should be fairly engaging though, but it's not because of anything romance related lol.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Sorrow-kun on October 26, 2013, 05:12:14 PM
I think the romance suffers because they're just very awkward people, but from that point of view it does make sense why they'd go out with each other.  Likes attracting, and all that.

Still, what a waste of a perfectly good, kawaii Hanazawa character.  To just be a plot device in all of this.  Pity.  Suginami just seems to have spent all her screentime this season appearing in weird, out-of-place moments.  Why put all that effort into her character design and hire the single most in-demand seiyuu right now if she's just going to be a pointless character?

I thought the reactions from the other characters was the most interesting thing about this episode.  Those slight hints of jealousy from the other girls (Komari in particular), the mixed feelings, the slightly over-the-top celebration, the conspicuous absence of Yuiko in all of this.  Also, there's a strong hint Kyousuke will leave stage right very soon.  There have been strong hints since the beginning that he wouldn't be around to help out Riki later on in the story, so I'm actually a little surprised he's stuck around for so long.  I guess what that means is when he does actually leave, shit will really hit the fan.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: MCAL on October 26, 2013, 06:50:54 PM
Still, what a waste of a perfectly good, kawaii Hanazawa character.  To just be a plot device in all of this.  Pity.  Suginami just seems to have spent all her screentime this season appearing in weird, out-of-place moments.  Why put all that effort into her character design and hire the single most in-demand seiyuu right now if she's just going to be a pointless character?

If I remember correctly, Hanazawa voiced Suginami in the Visual Novel, which was 2007, back when she wasn't as famous as she is today (Only about eight roles back then, most of them minor), so that might have something to do with it. Doesn't change the fact that she was still played as a plot device.

The one thing I did like about the RikixRin romance was when they started texting each other. The most believable thing a couple in first love could do. Can't remember if that happened in the VN, but if it didn't. That gives me some hope JC Staff still has a handle on this.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Aelms on October 26, 2013, 07:07:05 PM
I don't know if the anime didn't make it obvious enough or if the signs were just easier to catch for VN readers but it seems like most people who've posted didn't realise that ****'s ALREADY hitting the fan.

I have to say, the final club room scene was really something else.

The texting did happen in the VN. I also remember it as a highlight to their bland relationship.

I personally enjoy how their romance played out in a really matter-of-fact way, even if it costed a forgettable plot device. It also fit in well with the wider friendship theme in the LB circle and allowed even more chemistry between the characters to be shown.

Really looking forward to the coming episodes.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: MCAL on October 26, 2013, 08:20:15 PM
" Am I going to live my life alone in a Concrete Pipe?! "

I never realized how incredibly hilarious and sad this line is. Don’t worry Masato. You’re too good to be abandoned.

Though have to say, looking at other anime-only opinions of bloggers I usually agree with, I'm quite surprised at how much they like the RinxRiki relationship so far. Mildly shocking to me.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: hyperknees91 on October 26, 2013, 09:14:04 PM
The texting happened in the visual novels but it wasn't done well and Rin wasn't as emotional about it (which is probably why you didn't remember). Thankfully the relationship isn't as random as the VN which is probably why anime watchers are ok with it. It makes more sense with their characters, so yeah.

And lawl at that line....friggin lawl why did I not think about that line beforehand. Subtlety is amazing in this one.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: TypicalIdiotFan on October 29, 2013, 01:17:34 PM
4:

Well, count me as one of the people who actually likes the coupling.  No, it doesn't have a whole lot of history or chemistry, and that's what makes it work.  Rin quite literally just goes with it, and so does Riki.  It almost felt like a foregone conclusion that the both of them realized at the same time.  Or, more likely, plot manipulation.  But, considering what seems to be happening in the world around them, it is fine just being manipulation.  If Riki hasn't been in control of what has happened thus far, and I see no reason to believe he is, then this makes just as much sense as Kurugaya finding affection out of no where.

Plus, with their awkward clumsiness, it makes it seem like what we're witnessing is a couple of mentally retarded kids finding love while wearing helmets to protect themselves from running into walls too hard.  It's cute, in a God is a sick bastard kind of way.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Kiniest on November 02, 2013, 09:17:02 AM
5: Mood whiplash, much?

I at least hope you guys are interested about what's going on with Kyousuke.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: hyperknees91 on November 02, 2013, 11:00:55 AM
5: Shits about to go down!
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: MCAL on November 02, 2013, 11:54:20 AM
5:
JC Staff... Showing how to adapt a Visual Novel to a different medium all the while improving on source material is done... Having played through the game and knowing what's coming the whole episode was quite an intense affair.

EDIT: I was going to wait to this episode to say this so here goes. I do understand the RikixRin romance being incredibly awkward and contrived is intentional as this episode pointed out. I just don't like it because intentional or not I still don't think its a great aspect of the story and that confession scene is still as awkward as all hell.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Fumoffu!! on November 02, 2013, 12:25:15 PM
5: Mood whiplash, much?

I at least hope you guys are interested about what's going on with Kyousuke.

I didn't feel any moodlash in particular. In fact I feel like the sudden change in tone was entirely intentional. Also I am very interested in Kyousuke, and in fact am incredibly fond of him as a character, he's probably one of my favourite characters this year, and probably in my top 20-30 characters in general.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Reckoner on November 02, 2013, 12:37:05 PM
5:

I don't know how you anime viewers felt, but this was indeed a tense affair. Kyousuke looking quite sinister. Next episode should be amazing if they do it well.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Sorrow-kun on November 02, 2013, 06:01:08 PM
Ep 5

The Kyousuke stuff will develop more in the next episode, which is why I'm reluctant to say much about it now, since what little we saw was more of a cliffhanger than anything else.  This episode was more about Rin's decision and Riki's reaction to it... which was very childish (so, therefore, in line with Riki's maturity/experience towards relationships in general).  Riki essentially made the decision for Rin twice, rather than letting Rin make up her mind on her own.  I really liked Masato's line on the matter in this episode... it was really mature, particularly given what we've come to expect from his character to this point.  "Even if I had an opinion, I wouldn't say it."  Riki instead rationalizes pushing Rin towards a decision she didn't want to make with all sorts of wrong presumptions about what she really feels about him, and her capacity to make the right choice on her own.  It's a mistake, and he'd realize that if he didn't try to over-think things.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Reckoner on November 02, 2013, 10:52:51 PM
I do think you have to consider though that even though Riki is technically speaking telling Rin what to do again, the goal is that he wanted to force Rin into an environment that she would have to grow independent. It might sound contradictory to "force" someone to be independent, but it's all about circumstances. If Rin sticks to Riki and Kyousuke forever, she cannot grow, and this is what Riki realized about Rin.

Now the decision might be wrong for other reasons, but I don't think it's just because Riki is making the same mistake he made earlier.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: hyperknees91 on November 02, 2013, 11:18:50 PM
It's pretty similar in some sense though. The first mistake is more purely for Riki's sake rather than Rin's. While the second one is because he thinks this is genuinely what's best for her. Though unfortunately she's probably still at the point where she can't make her own decisions because of her sheltered and childish nature. It should be pretty obvious that both still have some growing up to do though.

I gotta say, I really like how they handle Komari and Rin's relationship a lot. It actually feels really sincere.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: TypicalIdiotFan on November 03, 2013, 08:13:52 PM
5:

Sticking with S-K on this.  Until I know more about what Kyousuke's up to, I can't make any judgments about what we're seeing here yet.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Reckoner on November 03, 2013, 08:44:48 PM
It's pretty similar in some sense though. The first mistake is more purely for Riki's sake rather than Rin's. While the second one is because he thinks this is genuinely what's best for her. Though unfortunately she's probably still at the point where she can't make her own decisions because of her sheltered and childish nature. It should be pretty obvious that both still have some growing up to do though.

I gotta say, I really like how they handle Komari and Rin's relationship a lot. It actually feels really sincere.

Well I was just picking at a slight nuance. Riki wanted Rin to stay for him initially, but then realized she could grow far more by being sent to the school and gaining independence. In both cases he's making the decision for her, but they had different intentions. One he just wants what's best for himself, the other he thinks it's what's best for Rin.

Yes, either way you could say he's being selfish by making the decision for her. However, I think the important point here is that Rin is not able to make a well thought out decision for herself. She's utterly dependent on the Little Busters and has never had to be independent. She is very much a child. Yes, Riki in some sense is very weak himself, but that's another issue.

And I also agree that I like how they handled their relationship in the anime compared to the VN. It's much more genuine.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: AC on November 04, 2013, 01:09:52 AM
5:

Poor Riki. First, he didn't want Rin to go and Rin agreed (or, was made to agree). Childish but understandable. Then, he sees the bigger picture and tells (read: NOT 'lets') Rin to go. And by that, he did so without realising that he sounded just like Kyousuke when he said it to her albeit he meant well. Communication breakdown as its best.

I won't judge and conclude that this season is better than the first; everyone knows I don't like the first season that much. But it's unclear where this season is going from here, so I will reserve myself until at least the next episode.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Kiniest on November 09, 2013, 08:58:07 AM
6: The best episode so far. The direction was fantastic. The pacing was incredible, for everything they put into this small amount of space. We're onto the Refrain part of Refrain, now. Rin is so, so much more human here than she ever was in the VN.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Fumoffu!! on November 09, 2013, 10:25:07 AM
6:

At some point I think I will make a top 50 characters list or something. When I do, Kyousuke is going to feature in it, because he's such a complex character, even now I don't know what truly motivates him, and he is such a manipulative bastard. I have a feeling this has something to do with the Refrian business, but he's coming out on top because it's like he's already experienced the future. When he made the girl disrupt Kengo's rhythm, wow. He is probably my favourite "antagonist" ever.

As for the episode, it was really rather good, although I felt it was paced slightly too fast. It's a pity, but at the same time I'm really liking this so whatever.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: hyperknees91 on November 09, 2013, 10:29:12 AM
6: Wow they skipped the end of Rin 2? I can't even complain about that as nothing really important happens outside of the end.

Sooooo good, just soooo good. This might be my favorite anime of the year, don't even care if I'm a fanboy.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: MCAL on November 09, 2013, 01:11:06 PM
6:
Now that was just fantastic...

And some excellent work by Yui Horie. Don't think the episode would have worked well with Tamiyasu's voice...
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Reckoner on November 09, 2013, 01:28:48 PM
6:

CHEAP TRICKS! KYOUSUKEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

Well what can I say, I thought the episode was really well done, although as a VN reader i'm of course disappointed by some of the arc's omissions, but given the time constraints they really did as well as they could.

I really love how they nailed Kyousuke looking villainous here. The end of the game is heart breaking in many ways.

In any case, next episode we finally arrive at Refrain.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Sorrow-kun on November 09, 2013, 05:44:46 PM
Ep 6

I don't understand Kyousuke, but I'm not sure I'd put that in such positive terms as Fumoffu!! has.  He and his master plan are basically the central mystery of this anime, but it's a little frustrating watching him go to such lengths to screw over his friends for who knows what reason.  Given that the next episode title is the date of his return, we might finally get some answers soon.

Geez, there was a lot in that episode to take in.  I'mma need a few minutes to get my head around it all.  I'm not sure Riki was so completely exhausted of options that he had no choice but to take Rin and run away into the country. 
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: MCAL on November 09, 2013, 07:34:34 PM
Geez, there was a lot in that episode to take in.  I'mma need a few minutes to get my head around it all.  I'm not sure Riki was so completely exhausted of options that he had no choice but to take Rin and run away into the country.

I think it was to show that Riki was still as much of a child as he called Rin. And what do children sometimes do when they feel boxed in? They run away from home (Where they belong) thinking they can leave everything behind only to find out life doesn't work that way. It's subtle (Something rare for Key since Kanon), but I think it works.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Reckoner on November 10, 2013, 02:11:45 AM
Indeed. A lot of people have been criticizing Riki's behavior around some parts, but that's precisely the point the episode is making. His immaturity, just as much as Rin, has shown through this arc. They're both weak, and Kyousuke has been trying to strengthen them both up with extreme measures. The purpose of course is not yet fully known.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: hyperknees91 on November 10, 2013, 02:45:03 PM
Most subtle hint was of course "Show me you can endure this", which yeah..we all saw how that went.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: AC on November 11, 2013, 06:16:15 AM
6:

Kyousuke basically tore down everything he built from scratch just to, according to Riki, help Rin's development. But for some reason, I don't think that's the end of it all. There's still the secret of the world that still isn't being revealed, and obviously that something to do with what Kyousuke is doing right now.

There's also the eye-patched girl, whose identity is basically a mysteryso what exactly is the link between and Kengo? And how is Kyousuke faulted for this?
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Reckoner on November 11, 2013, 10:52:05 AM
There's also the eye-patched girl, whose identity is basically a mysteryso what exactly is the link between and Kengo? And how is Kyousuke faulted for this?

She's Miyuki from episode 25 of season 1.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Kiniest on November 16, 2013, 08:51:51 AM
7: You non-VN players have been waiting months to find out what Refrain's all about. Here you go.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: MCAL on November 16, 2013, 12:46:23 PM
7:
And so it begins...
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Reckoner on November 16, 2013, 01:58:20 PM
7:

Can't wait to see all the confused anime only viewers after this episode. That was a great start to it all. I love how Kyousuke's depression literally colored the space around him black.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: hyperknees91 on November 16, 2013, 01:58:28 PM
7: So it begins indeed. I like that Rin isn't completely mind broken like the visual novel. She's just afraid of everything.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Fumoffu!! on November 16, 2013, 03:14:50 PM
7:

Well, I've assumed up until now Refrain was just some weird time loop bullshit, because that's what it usually is. I'm still rather intrigued though. This season is at about an 8 so far. I said it. Will it continue the magic?
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: TypicalIdiotFan on November 16, 2013, 06:47:27 PM
7:

Like Fumoffu, I already figured out the time loop thing, and this episode just blew it out into the open.  Unlike Fumoffu, I'm not that interested in it.  I get that everybody except Rin and Riki are aware of the time loop, and I am guessing that during one of these recursions, Kyousuke (or somebody) clued them in on the secret, and it didn't help.  Meanwhile, the duo have lingering feelings and thoughts from the previous incursions, sort of like de ja vu (Time's Arrow, Star Trek: TNG).  In this case Rin is traumatized from her being forced into separation in the last arc, and though she doesn't know why she's traumatized, she's still damaged.  Riki remains as clueless as ever because he's never figured anything out.

I don't know what the purpose behind all this is, but it looks like Kyousuke has given up.  Either that, or he thinks that staying out of it might be the answer this time.  Regardless, I imagine it is going to take some act of manliness on Riki's part to bust the lock on this universe.  While I am curious to see what that is, I don't know if I really care for the ultra stupid amounts of vagueness.  Maybe this is all part of the plan as well, but it just seems like an excuse by the writer to create a mystery.  A mystery we've already been painfully ****ing aware of since a long time ago.

I guess what I am saying is, I'm tired of being reset back to square one.  Get to the ****ing point already.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Kiniest on November 16, 2013, 07:00:04 PM
For those who want to give themselves a major hint:

Implicative spoilers will follow,

The time loop is not the big secret of the world. The show isn't even going to act like it's a secret in the next couple of episodes.

Don't say I didn't warn you.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: TypicalIdiotFan on November 16, 2013, 07:02:00 PM
Spoiler read, and I still don't care.  I want them to get to the point.

I think I am starting to understand why some people were thinking that Little Busters! should have only been Refrain.  After all this jerking around, I'm not pleased.  I feel like the whole thing is a damned mess and confusing just for the sake of being confusing.  Get to the point.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Kiniest on November 16, 2013, 07:09:22 PM
Fair enough, I see your point. Little Busters always was extremely dragged out. I agree that all that stuff with the other girls, save Komari, was almost unnecessary. Their only function was to befriend Rin and help her grow, when it comes down to it, and so there shouldn't have been two cours on that nonsense. As for what it's doing right now... I can't argue anything fairly until the climax, I guess.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Reckoner on November 16, 2013, 10:47:57 PM
Like Fumoffu, I already figured out the time loop thing, and this episode just blew it out into the open.  Unlike Fumoffu, I'm not that interested in it.  I get that everybody except Rin and Riki are aware of the time loop, and I am guessing that during one of these recursions, Kyousuke (or somebody) clued them in on the secret, and it didn't help.  Meanwhile, the duo have lingering feelings and thoughts from the previous incursions, sort of like de ja vu (Time's Arrow, Star Trek: TNG).  In this case Rin is traumatized from her being forced into separation in the last arc, and though she doesn't know why she's traumatized, she's still damaged.  Riki remains as clueless as ever because he's never figured anything out.

I don't know what the purpose behind all this is, but it looks like Kyousuke has given up.  Either that, or he thinks that staying out of it might be the answer this time.  Regardless, I imagine it is going to take some act of manliness on Riki's part to bust the lock on this universe.  While I am curious to see what that is, I don't know if I really care for the ultra stupid amounts of vagueness.  Maybe this is all part of the plan as well, but it just seems like an excuse by the writer to create a mystery.  A mystery we've already been painfully ****ing aware of since a long time ago.

I guess what I am saying is, I'm tired of being reset back to square one.  Get to the ****ing point already.

I think the emotions of the characters, the relationship dynamics between the core little Busters, and the continual development of themes of not just friendship, but the idea of the very end of childhood make up the very heart of Little Busters. I REALLY don't feel this could have been conveyed as well, and what's to come won't have the same impact, if you took out a lot of the previous material. There are some parts of the anime that might feel a bit unnecessary (particularly in season 1), but it's only when you get to the end that you get a more holistic picture of it all. It might not change your mind, but I would like to see what you think in 5-6 episodes from now as compared to now.

Unfortunately, one thing about Little Busters I've always felt, is that it's a story much more enjoyable on the second time you experience it, rather than the first. You'll probably understand why by the end, but so many little subtle details not just in this season, but all throughout the previous season escape the viewer on the first watch. The story doesn't feel as cohesive without Refrain because it's hard to pick up on exactly what kind of story Maeda is trying to tell. There are some viewers that are much more in tune than others of course though.

Also, I would like to say that you might not be quite fully understanding what's going on with the supernatural stuff, but I'll neither confirm or deny what you think for the mean time.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: TypicalIdiotFan on November 17, 2013, 01:44:29 AM
Quote
I think the emotions of the characters, the relationship dynamics between the core little Busters, and the continual development of themes of not just friendship, but the idea of the very end of childhood make up the very heart of Little Busters.

The latter I'll agree with, but not the former.  Aside from the core Little Busters having been friends since kids, and aside from everybody rushing to Riki when he has one of his narcoleptic fits, I haven't seen a whole lot of genuine emotion between them.  Certainly, there has been a lot more between Riki + whomever, and sometimes Rin, but the "supporting cast" appears to be just that, a supporting cast.  Kengo started to get a bit of a story going, and aside from a singular moment recently, has been relatively forgotten about.  I don't know what drives Masato at all, or even Rin for that matter.  Kyousuke, of course, remains a mystery because he's soooo mysterious.

Quote
It might not change your mind, but I would like to see what you think in 5-6 episodes from now as compared to now.

I'm not a big enough asshole to say that I wont have my mind changed by the end of this.  That would be a disservice to the creative minds behind this work, but even more than that, it would be intellectually disingenuous on my part.  If I like something, I say so.  I'm not so stubborn that I wont give credit where credit is due.

I think, by this point, I just want to see what the ****ing hubbub that has people bending over backwards in glee and joy is about.  I trust Key works, in general, having not seen a bad one yet.  Air, Kanon, and Clannad continue to be three of my favorite anime of all time, because they come from really creative and intriguing writers.  I'm just tired of the buildup.

Quote
Unfortunately, one thing about Little Busters I've always felt, is that it's a story much more enjoyable on the second time you experience it, rather than the first.

This tends to be true for most mysteries and shows with a big "twist" at the end.  The Sixth Sense twist is so famous and infamous because it was executed perfectly, and still well laid out in advance if you were paying attention.  Of course, since nobody was expecting that kind of kick in the balls, nobody was paying attention.  So you watch the second time looking for the clues.  Perhaps a better example would be The Usual Suspects (which I actually figured out fairly quickly, but still appreciated when they explained all the brouhaha).  However, one I have never enjoyed was Fight Club's twist.  I always felt that one was kind of a cop out and way too ****ing convoluted.  Then again, the whole film is kind of convoluted and the twist isn't really the point, but the meaning behind it.

Anyway... we'll see.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Kiniest on November 23, 2013, 10:10:23 AM
8: Masato's arc should have had 2 episodes. That was just kind of a let down. Lost a lot of effect, here. Kengo's episode should be good, though, it wasn't as full of content as Masato's episode was. Refrain's probably lost my 8, though.

I mean, that was really ****ing disappointing when it comes down to it. The fanbase is probably going to rage over this. Good thing Masato's arc isn't the best part of Refrain. This is the first episode that told me "maybe JC Staff doesn't completely know what they're doing.". Let's hope it doesn't stay this dull from here on out.

Also, physics.

This certainly isn't a Clannad-level anime.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: hyperknees91 on November 23, 2013, 11:25:23 AM
8: I liked it ok. But I'll agree...it needed to be 2 episodes. Then again maybe that's my visual novel reader self being biased. I do feel like they needed to spend more time on Masato kind of losing it. But eh whatever, I still liked it so its ok.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: MCAL on November 23, 2013, 12:23:33 PM
8:
First things first... yes, it probably should have been two episodes instead. That being said, I still think the episode was pretty great. I liked the use of Song for Friends too. And yes! they finally used a "World where nothing happens." (The piece that places during the Unlimited Masato Moment). Very good piece.

Also for Anime-Only viewers. No, the multiple Masato thing wasn't explained in the VN yet. JC Staff didn't leave it out.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Reckoner on November 23, 2013, 12:30:25 PM
8:

I was getting concerned about some of the VN reader comments on this episode, but as usual it's a bunch of nothing. I thought the episode was very well done considering the content. I don't think Masato's arc really has enough material for two whole anime episodes IMO. What would they have put in to fill in the time? Masato punching people more? Masato freaking out more? Ideally it might have used 1.5 episodes, but TV constraints don't work like that.

In the end, I still think JC makes pretty good choices overall. The only time I seriously questioned their direction was the early placement of Komari's arc (And it was pretty bad), but it's turned out pretty well overall all things considered.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: MCAL on November 23, 2013, 12:58:02 PM
8:

I was getting concerned about some of the VN reader comments on this episode, but as usual it's a bunch of nothing. I thought the episode was very well done considering the content. I don't think Masato's arc really has enough material for two whole anime episodes IMO. What would they have put in to fill in the time? Masato punching people more? Masato freaking out more? Ideally it might have used 1.5 episodes, but TV constraints don't work like that.

In the end, I still think JC makes pretty good choices overall. The only time I seriously questioned their direction was the early placement of Komari's arc (And it was pretty bad), but it's turned out pretty well overall all things considered.

Yeah, I see what you are saying. I'd still give this episode very high marks (And everything I really liked about Masato's route was still there) and most VN readers still like to bitch as usual. (Especially with the music, which I can never fathom).
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: hyperknees91 on November 23, 2013, 01:35:46 PM
I think mainly they needed to focus more on Masato's psyche than the chase itself. But eh that's ok, this was another way of doing it. Kengo and Kyousuke's episodes should be fine as well like said before.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: MCAL on November 23, 2013, 02:30:53 PM
Having watched the episode again, it felt like a much better experience. Damn, the scene with Masato's past is so damn good. I like how it gives hidden depth to the typical Key idiot male friend. And also Kyousuke's ability to see people for who they are.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Kiniest on November 23, 2013, 02:39:36 PM
Meh. What Hyperknees said about the episode is basically how I felt about it. The only reason Masato's episode had any effect in the VN was because of how well it explained Masato as a character, and the psyche involving this situation. Otherwise, it would be unnecessarily silly, like what we just saw. Unfortunately, the episode did not deliver in the same rhetoric that the VN did, thus losing its enjoyment for me. I'm not pushing the VN, not one bit, but this was just plain disappointing. Kengo and Kyousuke's arcs work extremely well just being what they are, which is why this one was the hardest to do. Unfortunately, I think JC Staff failed with Masato's arc.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: MCAL on November 23, 2013, 02:51:36 PM
Meh. What Hyperknees said about the episode is basically how I felt about it. The only reason Masato's episode had any effect in the VN was because of how well it explained Masato as a character, and the psyche involving this situation. Otherwise, it would be unnecessarily silly, like what we just saw. Unfortunately, the episode did not deliver in the same rhetoric that the VN did, thus losing its enjoyment for me. I'm not pushing the VN, not one bit, but this was just plain disappointing. Kengo and Kyousuke's arcs work extremely well just being what they are, which is why this one was the hardest to do. Unfortunately, I think JC Staff failed with Masato's arc.

Could you explain in a little more detail (In spoilers if you need to) what you thought was unnecessary silly? I mean if you are talking about the chase scene, Masato is picking up a huge statue. There wasn't anything that was gonna change that. And we don't get a full explanation for the "Unlimited Masato Works" until later anyway, so there is nothing we could do about that either.

Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Kiniest on November 23, 2013, 03:20:39 PM
Meh. What Hyperknees said about the episode is basically how I felt about it. The only reason Masato's episode had any effect in the VN was because of how well it explained Masato as a character, and the psyche involving this situation. Otherwise, it would be unnecessarily silly, like what we just saw. Unfortunately, the episode did not deliver in the same rhetoric that the VN did, thus losing its enjoyment for me. I'm not pushing the VN, not one bit, but this was just plain disappointing. Kengo and Kyousuke's arcs work extremely well just being what they are, which is why this one was the hardest to do. Unfortunately, I think JC Staff failed with Masato's arc.

Could you explain in a little more detail (In spoilers if you need to) what you thought was unnecessary silly? I mean if you are talking about the chase scene, Masato is picking up a huge statue. There wasn't anything that was gonna change that. And we don't get a full explanation for the "Unlimited Masato Works" until later anyway, so there is nothing we could do about that either.

Basically, stuff like that. The catharsis is somewhat lost on the whole thing, really. Sure, it's like that in the VN, but enough is going on for me to brush it aside. Here, not so much. It also happens a bit too suddenly.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Reckoner on November 23, 2013, 04:03:08 PM
Eh. When I read the VN, I felt similarly to you about the nature of things going on. Rather than feeling disturbed I was actually kind of laughing at the whole unlimited masato works. The only thing that was at all poignant was the flashback sequence. I actually don't remember much more from the VN detailing his psyche in the situation.

It was indeed the hardest one to pull off though, but that's because it was the most questionable to begin with IMO. Fortunately the next parts as you said, will not require much more than just playing it straight.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Kiniest on November 23, 2013, 04:12:48 PM
I see, that's what the Unlimited Blade Route of Fate Stay Night is going to be like. I better just play it already.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Sorrow-kun on November 23, 2013, 06:30:56 PM
Ep 8

The anime-watcher and VN-watcher experience has been so different, pretty much throughout this entire season.  I'm with Reckoner, I thought this was a really enjoyable episode, and I didn't think it suffered for pacing at all.  The only lingering question I had was, what was going on with the whole "Being Inohara Masato" thing, but I was willing to chalk it up to a weird plot device owing to the whole alternative-timeline stuff while I was watching it.  Everything else, I thought, was handled really nicely, from Rin making a small, but noticeable recovery, to, especially, Masato's background.  It's the first real insight we got into Masato, and a really good explanation for why he's the type of person he is.  It was because of Kyousuke and the Little Busters that he was able to embrace his true personality, rather than hiding behind his physical strength.

As far as the whole "silliness" is concerned (i.e., why didn't Masato just take off his jacket while he was glued to the statue, or why didn't he just unclench his fist when it got stuck in the postbox), I'd say it's pretty consistent with his character.  It's an over-the-top way to make a comment on how Masato approaches situations when he's threatened and/or flustered.  As far as "silly" things in this series to date are concerned, the stuff that happened in this episode isn't incompatible.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: TypicalIdiotFan on November 23, 2013, 07:07:52 PM
8:

Masato finally does something... I guess.   So he's just acting out the part to help Riki surpass Kyousuke. Does this really explain much about his psyche?  I'm not seeing it.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: AC on November 24, 2013, 05:50:45 AM
8:

So I guess the NEXT CHALLENGER is Kengo. And yeah, I enjoyed that episode too. I also thought about why Masato couldn't just take off his jacket, but as how SK justified, it wouldn't be the Masato thing to do because that's a little too smart for him.

But I wonder one thing: how is Riki able to replicate (not exactly) the same thing Kyousuke actually did back during childhood with Masato? Does he understand Kyousuke that much...?
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: hyperknees91 on November 30, 2013, 09:19:17 AM
9: That was really good. I really don't have any complaints here.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Reckoner on November 30, 2013, 12:32:28 PM
9:

There's a lot I want to say about the cheap tricks scene flashback, but I'll wait till we have a little more information in the anime.

But what can I say... This is one of the more powerful scenes of Little Busters and I feel JC Staff nailed it. There's really no complaints I have with what they did here. Kengo's voice actor does a magnificent job. The secret is not so secret anymore, but next couple episodes will truly reveal everything. I think everyone at this point should know in their gut what's in store here. The actual revelation isn't so important as is the character motivations and development to get there.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: hyperknees91 on November 30, 2013, 01:30:41 PM
You gotta love the subtlety with Masato's interactions with them as well. Though that won't be as clear until the finale.

Also I think I officially like this adaption much more than the VN just for the sake of how likable they made Rin's character and actually making her grow.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: MCAL on December 01, 2013, 12:08:43 AM
9:
That was damn well adapted. And JC Staff continues to improve Rin's character to an astonishing degree. Never thought someone would be able to do it this well.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: TypicalIdiotFan on December 01, 2013, 01:44:58 AM
Quote from: Reckoner
The actual revelation isn't so important as is the character motivations and development to get there.

Oh.

Ugh.

9:

I found Masato's episode more interesting than Kengo's, probably because Masato was so damned unusual in his.  Kengo has always been a passionate dude, so there wasn't much new here form him.  Oh, except he got mouthy with the plot's secrets.  I think I know what's going on now, and Reckoner's comment above is actually quite apt.  Not sure how I feel about it, though.  All this mystery and secrecy is going to be a let down, isn't it?
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Reckoner on December 01, 2013, 10:13:39 PM
I found Masato's episode more interesting than Kengo's, probably because Masato was so damned unusual in his.  Kengo has always been a passionate dude, so there wasn't much new here form him.  Oh, except he got mouthy with the plot's secrets.  I think I know what's going on now, and Reckoner's comment above is actually quite apt.  Not sure how I feel about it, though.  All this mystery and secrecy is going to be a let down, isn't it?

Well I actually felt there was a lot to take from Kengo's episode here.

In some ways Kengo is the most immature member of the Little Busters of them all. He wanted to continue on living in this sort of bubble (despite what he knows about the secret) in order to spend the days frolicking and having fun with Riki and Rin. Kyousuke is the parent who is forcing the "children" to grow up, while Kengo wants to shield the "children" from ever having to face harsh reality. This is a clear opposition that has been crystallized within the group and we now know exactly why Kengo has been acting the way he has all along. There's also another, more subtle reason which has to do with all the lost time Kengo feels he has. He devoted so much of his life to his training, and while Kyousuke broke him out of that boring lifestyle to a degree, it was still a dominating force in his life. Him wanting to continue life in this bubble is also an attempt to grasp that lost time of his childhood back.

Anyhow I don't know if the secret will be a let down to you. We're basically at the revelation. The next two episodes you will know everything there is to know.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: TypicalIdiotFan on December 01, 2013, 10:52:34 PM
Now that you've explained it in that context, I guess Kengo is more interesting now.  But I wasn't getting any of those types of vibes from this episode.  I got that Kengo didn't want Riki to follow in Kyousuke's footsteps, but I didn't think it was a projection of his own desires.  Did I miss something?
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Reckoner on December 01, 2013, 11:05:47 PM
Well the main scenes I would point to that kind of explain this would be like this.

http://imgur.com/a/ucGSW

There's also his eventual break down at the end about "tears of regret" and wanting to have played longer.

While it's not an amazingly difficult series to understand, I find that details like this in Little Busters become so much more clearer upon a second  viewing. I know Guardian Enzo from RC has been really in tune with the series themes and stuff and he's an anime only viewer:

http://randomc.net/2013/11/30/little-busters-refrain-09/

So I imagine there's enough there in the anime to put it all in context and it's not just the babbling of a VN reader like me :p.

Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: hyperknees91 on December 07, 2013, 08:27:15 AM
10: And this is when Kyousuke became the best key character ever woo. Such an amazing episode and probably going to be the best in the whole series.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Kiniest on December 07, 2013, 09:40:30 AM
10: This is the first time I can actually believe the anime has improved over the visual novel. It actually ADDED context onto the visual novel. That was freaking impressive. We get a good look at just how much of a child Riki was, prior to Kyousuke's intervention, and we even get a real look at how desperate Kyousuke is. Impressive adaptation.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: MCAL on December 07, 2013, 10:38:30 AM
10:
Now I bet anybody who were badmouthing Kyosuke and Masato and taking Kengo's side look pretty foolish.  :P

EDIT: Anyway, I loved how they decide to frame the flashbacking and the new material. Made it much more enjoyable.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Fumoffu!! on December 08, 2013, 06:28:07 AM
10:

I knew I was right to like Kyousuke so much, he really is a very strong character.

The episode at times showed footage from recent episodes too much, but overall it was fantastic. I tried to get myself really into it, and it really was rather emotional.

The second season really is so much better than the first.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Reckoner on December 08, 2013, 11:26:45 AM
10:

A couple of notes for the episode for anime only viewers.

1. Kyousuke is the one who manipulated the world to drive Masato kind of crazy with unlimited Masato works a couple episodes back. So it was partially symbolic for Masato, but there was an explanation for it that should've been in this episode.

2.
In the cheap tricks scenes, the other reason Kengo went so berserk on Kyousuke is because Koshiki Miyuki is implied to have committed suicide in the real world. Basically she's not a real person, otherwise manipulating her "sudden" appearance like that would not have been possible. I'll say a little more about this in a few episodes.

Anyhow, what can I say. I do think they hand held the audience here a bit too much in this episode by explaining so many details flat out (Then again I'm shocked how many viewers have been so clueless about the ongoing events when reading stuff from other places), but it was executed really well. You can't help feel bad when Kyousuke says something in the end like "I'll know my insignificant life had meaning." The cat is completely out of the bag here, and now all that is left is the resolution.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: hyperknees91 on December 08, 2013, 01:49:17 PM
Well considering Clannad totally lost so many people with it's plot, I think JC Staff probably thought a little hand-holding was necessary here. 
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Reckoner on December 08, 2013, 02:38:56 PM
While that is true about Clannad, the thing is that Kyoani did an extremely poor job at developing that aspect of its story. Hence why the magical aspects totally whiffed on the audience. This is not to say that magic in KEY works ever makes perfectly logical sense, it doesn't and you kind of have to roll with it. But... the actual details of what's going on shouldn't be that hard to decipher. And this is putting aside any thematic issues that you could take with that.

In the case with the Little Busters anime, however, I feel JC staff has done extreme amounts of foreshadowing to the point where an attentive anime viewer could probably get more detail about the secret of the world than the VN reader throughout most of the story. It's not a surprise that a lot of VN readers have complained that they revealed too much... Though it's not like the VN was especially subtle either about many things. The very first image in the visual novel for Refrain is a crashed bus CG, and given the foreshadowing of the "class field trip bus accident" that is references in Rin's route, it's pretty obvious what it means.

Essentially I feel that people should be able to figure it all out. The sad thing is that it seems there are still a good amount of anime only viewers who are expressing so much confusion. Personally, I think while the character motivations are not necessarily always THAT clear on the first time through, these other details seem pretty obvious to me to figure out at this point.

In any case, it was just a minor criticism for me, I thought the episode was very good and the next one should be even better.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: hyperknees91 on December 08, 2013, 04:25:27 PM
I don't disagree with you, it's made a little too obvious indeed. I just think that's the only reason they made that call in the first place (Air was pretty much the same). It's too bad they couldn't strike a balance between being subtle and being overly cryptic.

And some fans...well...yeah you got me.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: TypicalIdiotFan on December 09, 2013, 02:50:12 PM
10:

I'm not sure what this really revealed that the VN people are upset about.  By this point with what has been shown, and the conversations we've had, it was pretty obvious what was going on and what Kyousuke was up to.  The specific details about various things that we'd seen were cleared up, but that doesn't really do anything but confirm suspicions.  The fact that there is tragedy behind this is not that surprising either.  We know this isn't the "real world", so there had to be something afoot.  There is also nothing unique about this either.  Angel Beats did the same general concept, albeit slightly differently.  Maybe Little Busters! did it first, but that really doesn't matter as neither is a pioneer in this area.

The only remaining question is why.  I get the sense that Kyousuke has a fairly low opinion of his friend Riki (and Rin to a lesser extent) and Riki's ability to deal with the tragedy in the real world.  But is his whole purpose in doing this just to prepare Riki for the horrors of loss, or is he preparing Riki to somehow fix the tragedy before it becomes one?  Throwing all the "magical" bullshit out for a second, what this comes down to is that Kyousuke is NOT the only one who survived the tragedy, and knowing his own mortality, is using what remains of his life force to save the one remaining friend from what will be a bitter loneliness.  I have to question Kyousuke's conclusion, tho.  I mean, he's putting a cart before a horse, here.  Presumably, he doesn't have any knowledge of what is going to happen beyond the point in "reality" where he himself is.  Maybe he does.  Maybe he somehow has managed to stop the real world at the same time.  I guess we'll find out what the end game truly is soon enough.  For now, tho, it seems like he's being noble for his own sake, as he put it, to give his life meaning.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: The Big Guy on December 09, 2013, 05:12:48 PM
Quote
But is his whole purpose in doing this just to prepare Riki for the horrors of loss, or is he preparing Riki to somehow fix the tragedy before it becomes one?

My understanding is that it is the former. That's the only way Rin2 makes sense.

 
Quote
Maybe he somehow has managed to stop the real world at the same time.

Spoilering this in the off chance it gives something away.

No.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Reckoner on December 09, 2013, 06:58:19 PM
I'm not sure what this really revealed that the VN people are upset about.  By this point with what has been shown, and the conversations we've had, it was pretty obvious what was going on and what Kyousuke was up to.  The specific details about various things that we'd seen were cleared up, but that doesn't really do anything but confirm suspicions.

Well that's the whole point. I thought it was unnecessary spoon feeding. We didn't need to outright state things like we were summarizing the revelations is all I was saying.

The only remaining question is why.  I get the sense that Kyousuke has a fairly low opinion of his friend Riki (and Rin to a lesser extent) and Riki's ability to deal with the tragedy in the real world.  But is his whole purpose in doing this just to prepare Riki for the horrors of loss, or is he preparing Riki to somehow fix the tragedy before it becomes one?

The former. He's trying to prep Riki and Rin for life without the Little Busters. In fact, in Rin's arc the situation Rin was in with the school transfer was PRETTY similar to what she'll really have to go through in the real world. If she couldn't handle it when it wasn't even her friends who died, then she has a tough road ahead of her. As we have seen throughout parts of the series, particularly in Rin 2 and in this episode, Riki has always been very dependent and unable to deal with struggles.

I won't really talk about anything else you were saying though because it's better if you see the outcome before discussing that.



Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: KS on December 09, 2013, 09:56:57 PM
Well considering Clannad totally lost so many people with it's plot, I think JC Staff probably thought a little hand-holding was necessary here.

Clannad never lost me with it's plot so much as I think it lost itself in it's plot. 


My problem with Clannad is that they do the whole thing with Nagisa passing away and Tomoya having to raise his daughter on his own which he then struggles with and it provides a kind of interesting look of the struggles of a single father trying to raise a child on his own which was something I hadn't really seen from an anime before (In the recent Wolf Children it was a mother for example) and he eventually ends up seeking advice from his elder family members and eventually comes to some personal realizations that kind of represent the emotional climax of the series.  Then instead of having the dignity to end there on a high note the show decides it needs more emotionally manipulative melodrama so it kills off Ushio and then through some magical bullshit everything manages to reset to before Nagisa ever died in the first place and now this time she doesn't which I guess is great for her, but it basically undoes all of Tomoya's character development from that point on and he never has that personal realization, never makes up with his father and never manages to mature and learn to move on with life to raise a family like a proper adult.  It was absolutely maddening and I think ever since I've always found that Kyoto Animation when adapting material always takes the easiest and least thematically effective way out of pretty well every story they've adapted, never willing to commit to consequences or the idea that not everything works out absolutely perfectly in the end and that there's still room for growth through bitter sweet outcomes.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: TypicalIdiotFan on December 09, 2013, 10:33:01 PM
By the by, I wouldn't say Clannad lost so many people with its plot so much as Kyoto Animation lost people with their interpretation of the magical aspects of Clannad's plot.  As it was pointed out during the Clannad threads, it seemed like Kyoto Animation was trying to make it look like the magic of the town was out to get Tomoya, constantly taking things away from him that he cared about, rather than being an impartial miracle that simply could not be sustained.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: hyperknees91 on December 14, 2013, 06:37:09 AM
I pretty much agree with KS. But I feel like the problem was the ending was almost too subtle. I get the ending is that the one thing Tomoya needed to learn from all of the events is that he needs to not regret meeting Nagisa. I get that's the point of the ending, but I still feel like the rewards were...too great. Though I'm sure everyone's heard the clannad ending argument a million times by now so I won't go into it. It's still a great series with great scenes, even if I personally have never been so disgusted with an ending since Mai Hime. That's more of a personal problem though as I hate cop out endings unless it's clever of course.

11: Welp that's it man, game over. I feel really depressed now...just gonna go and watch something relaxing like Aria now. Yes it was good, it was insanely good.

And yes Angel Beats was pretty much just little busters because I guess jun maeda felt we wouldn't get an anime version for awhile...or something.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Kiniest on December 14, 2013, 08:52:05 AM
11: And people are still complaining about the execution? That was ****ing perfect. I don't get humans.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: hyperknees91 on December 14, 2013, 08:54:24 AM
Well it's the delusional bias. That it has to be "exactly" like how it was in the source material for it to feel right for some material. Don't pay any mind to it, I far preferred how this was done then in the VN.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Kiniest on December 14, 2013, 08:59:29 AM
You didn't get

"Because I love you, Kyousuke!"

In the VN.

People need to face it, this show is adding context, and it isn't even two cours.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: hyperknees91 on December 14, 2013, 09:09:28 AM
Well I was more happy about them adding the girls in to some degree.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: MCAL on December 14, 2013, 11:45:11 AM
11:
That was prefect. That is all.

You didn't get

"Because I love you, Kyousuke!"

In the VN.

People need to face it, this show is adding context, and it isn't even two cours.

Actually it was. The VN translation uses "like' instead of "love", which I have surmised heightened the impact.
Doesn't change the fact that I agree with you though.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Reckoner on December 14, 2013, 12:22:15 PM
Need more anime only viewer reactions in here. I've waited 36 episodes for this. This is the moment where you realize, "oh so it's KEY after all."

11:

Someone give Brosuke's VA an award for that. Damn that was painful to hear. No complaints from me, it's every bit as good as its VN counterpart.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Fumoffu!! on December 14, 2013, 01:47:44 PM
11:

I have complained at shows in the past for overdoing their drama in the "LOOK HOW SAD THIS IS" sense, and if anyone accused this of the same, then they are truly missing the point. This was the culmination of everything, all of the characters had inside that they held back for so long, it was incredibly sad. I got news of a real life loss recently, and I was never able to make it click, hearing about it when it's so far away makes it hard to appreciate. This episode though, it hit me like a brick, and was able to make me appreciate the true sadness of loss . They portrayed that so well and in such a genuine way that it caused that. Needless to say, I was teary for at least 60% of the episode, if not outright crying. Obviously I have additional reasons, but that entire sequence is just tragic, and I'm sure I'd be crying if only for that.

Honestly, this may actually be my favourite show of the season now, because that was amazing.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: TypicalIdiotFan on December 14, 2013, 04:38:02 PM
11:

I'll be blunt, I was expecting this to be more touching and sad.  I think part of the disconnect is that we don't really know what befell them in real life.  I mean, we're told that only Riki and Rin survive, but we don't see the horrors awaiting us.  It doesn't feel final without seeing the tragedy.  Maybe the problem is that, saying goodbye kind of requires that you actually say goodbye in reality, not some fantasy world created by people to be ideal.  For me, this is like wishing someone good journeys as they're leaving on a train ride.  Sure, it is a little lonely, but considering all the magical mumbo jumbo going around, it is easy to rationalize that nothing is real at all.  Now, if Kyousuke was saying goodbye to Riki while bleeding out... yeah, that's final, and a lot more moving.

Still, while I was indifferent to Masato and Kengo going, I will admit that Kyousuke's farewell got me a bit.  Though we have only been aware of Kyousuke's noble struggle for a few episodes, it still was not lost on me that he was trying his best and was finally able to pass on in peace.  Well, almost in peace.  That conversation about the circumstances not being fair hit me hard.  That's the kind of thing I imagine everybody goes through when something terrible happens to them.  The "why" is always the toughest question to answer.  Does this all have meaning?  Is this part of some divine plan?  Fate?  Or is it just random, and your life sucked and had no meaning?  It couples really well with his statement in the last episode where he was deliberately trying to make his death mean something, because I think Kyousuke already knows the answer, but hates the thought of it.  Who could blame him?  Seven people had to die (well, presumably more than that, but those are our key (hurr) characters), and for what?  Just to make Riki and Rin's life afterward hell as they struggle to deal with grief, loss, and loneliness?  In a way, this is Kyousuke spitting upon the answer.  He wont go down without a fight, and the other Little Busters members are right there with him.  All their remaining life spent just to make sure the remaining two don't suffer.

It really is touching, and watching Kyousuke slowly fade out with the world, getting a last glimpse of his comrades before he, too, joins them in whatever awaits us all after the end, was a powerful scene.  For some reason, though, it just didn't hit me as hard as I'm sure it did others.

Still, that was less melodramatic and more visceral than I was expecting, so I'll slowly clap my hands in applause and await the last episode.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: MCAL on December 14, 2013, 09:20:36 PM
Also, if any one is interested. Here is a complete compilation of all the hints and symbolism towards the secret of the world. Over 400 moments...

http://imgur.com/a/fSJLK
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: AC on December 15, 2013, 11:35:41 PM
11:

Wow, now that's touching.

Now I have to admit: I didn't really get all the hints. Really, I didn't (so call me slow if you wish). It feels strange for me to say this, but I feel that JC Staff has does pretty well with the storytelling (it feels strange because I've never read the original source before, yet this is how I feel). Kyoto Animation could've done better, but come to think it, maybe it couldn't. The studio could do better only if it can pull off similar quality as that of Clannad. Yeah, the old KyotoAni-JC Staff contention is long overdue but I'll just say this once and for all.

I certainly didn't see this coming at all in the first season because, as far as I can remember, the first season was all about Little Busters doing frilly stuff. The focus wasn't really much on Riki and Rin's development unlike the second season, although that's what the writers precisely intended to do. But perhaps I have to re-consider this season much better than the first season, and I'm very curious to see where the story goes from here. There's still one cour worth of episodes left, and I wonder if there's anything else to see other than Riki and Rin coping with the loss of the Little Busters team.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: MCAL on December 15, 2013, 11:56:30 PM
There's still one cour worth of episodes left, and I wonder if there's anything else to see other than Riki and Rin coping with the loss of the Little Busters team.
Actually, this is only going to be one cour, so there are only two episodes left (Unless I've misunderstood what you said, which I might have).

OVA:
That was a pretty hilarious episode. And the ending song with Riki wearing the Saito mask (Look at Haruka's face) was lol.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: AC on December 16, 2013, 02:46:38 AM
Oh damn.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: KS on December 16, 2013, 01:50:48 PM
11:

Wow, now that's touching.

Now I have to admit: I didn't really get all the hints. Really, I didn't (so call me slow if you wish). It feels strange for me to say this, but I feel that JC Staff has does pretty well with the storytelling (it feels strange because I've never read the original source before, yet this is how I feel). Kyoto Animation could've done better, but come to think it, maybe it couldn't. The studio could do better only if it can pull off similar quality as that of Clannad. Yeah, the old KyotoAni-JC Staff contention is long overdue but I'll just say this once and for all.


The phrase "never look a gift horse in the mouth" comes to mind when it comes to the whole Kyoani versus J.C Staff debate.  Essentially people probably ought to focus on what they've been given already rather than what they imagine in their mind might have been better under different circumstances.  I'm not really sure how the Key fanbase usually plays these things though I am aware of it's overwhelming passion for the source materials as something approaching that which a religious group shows for it's sacred texts, but reading some peoples reactions to the shows emotional climax and looking at others criticisms I get the feeling that some people take these things for granted or some of them don't know how to be content or something.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: SQA on December 16, 2013, 09:19:36 PM
11:

Wow, now that's touching.

Now I have to admit: I didn't really get all the hints. Really, I didn't (so call me slow if you wish). It feels strange for me to say this, but I feel that JC Staff has does pretty well with the storytelling (it feels strange because I've never read the original source before, yet this is how I feel). Kyoto Animation could've done better, but come to think it, maybe it couldn't. The studio could do better only if it can pull off similar quality as that of Clannad. Yeah, the old KyotoAni-JC Staff contention is long overdue but I'll just say this once and for all.


The phrase "never look a gift horse in the mouth" comes to mind when it comes to the whole Kyoani versus J.C Staff debate.  Essentially people probably ought to focus on what they've been given already rather than what they imagine in their mind might have been better under different circumstances.  I'm not really sure how the Key fanbase usually plays these things though I am aware of it's overwhelming passion for the source materials as something approaching that which a religious group shows for it's sacred texts, but reading some peoples reactions to the shows emotional climax and looking at others criticisms I get the feeling that some people take these things for granted or some of them don't know how to be content or something.

As much as we look back at the Fanboy Rage!!1!1!!1 for JC Staff handling it, looking at the information presented at the time, it's understandable.  The Director pretty much had 1 decent work to his name (Hells) and the Writer, though a veteran, mostly wrote for children's works.  KyoAni does have a track record with Key works, and JC Staff gave a big project to a director with a limited resume.  It was a pretty big risk.  For all accounts, it paid off, but the risk was still real.  And Key fans aren't to be taken lightly, given the money made by their other works.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: hyperknees91 on December 17, 2013, 04:58:31 AM
Yeah can't underestimate them key fans. Though I feel like the director has done his job here, especially with the last scene in the final part of the episode. It does take a certain amount of care as a director to make such a scene if you ask me.

If I had things my way every dark action show would be done by ufotable haha.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: hyperknees91 on December 21, 2013, 06:10:35 AM
12: Well they certainly changed one thing...they didn't try to bs anyone this time around. A good choice if you ask me.

Now how will they handle things for our finale. I think I'm going to end up liking this much more than the VN in the end now. The scene with Rin and the girls is so much better done it's not even funny. I actually really felt for her there, in which I didn't give two craps about her in the VN.

So yeah Rin went from being my least liked main key heroine...to possibly my most liked with this anime adaption. Genuine character development is always nice to see.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: MCAL on December 21, 2013, 09:04:15 AM
12:
As soon as the the big Key fanboys started complaining a lot, I just knew I would love this episode and I did. This is where all that improvement to Rin and her relationships with the girls from the VN to anime pay off. And the seeming changes from the VN (Have to wait until next episode to see) have eliminated the deus ex machina feel of the ending too. Though it will still feel a little cheap.

EDIT: Oh and they actually showed the bus crash. Needless to say that freaked me out.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: hyperknees91 on December 21, 2013, 09:24:47 AM
Eh I don't think it will feel that cheap. In the VN I only felt this way because it wasn't built up properly to and because one of the endings basically was just there to trick the player.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Reckoner on December 21, 2013, 02:32:02 PM
12:

Let me just chime in here that JC staff did an awesome job with Rin's character in this episode. This version of Rin is far superior to the visual novel. Rin's relationship with Komari is also far superior to the visual novel. Everything here worked better not only on a thematic level, but on an emotional level as well. And like many people like to proclaim, if emotion is the most important thing for a KEY adaption, they nailed it here. I felt nothing in the visual novel for komari rin scene. It was emotionally desolate. This on the other hand was great. Also the bus crash scene was awesome. Great episode all around.

The only problem is that JC staff didn't have the balls to go against...

If you want a more detailed take, here is a spoiler. A big spoiler so don't read unless you want to be spoiled.

Jun Maeda's true ending. However, at least they are going to remove the silly deus ex machina I believe which removes a large part of the issue here. However, the thematic purpose of the narrative is still harmed a little bit.

Overall, I am actually extremely happy with this version of the events.

Honestly, JC staff did an admirable job at trying to cover for what's to come, but it it's still not enough. Lovely episode, but if any of you anime only viewers are like me you won't like what's to come.

I've always been against the true ending in the visual novel where they save all the Little Busters. It cheapens the emotional impact of some of the previous events and it makes the farewell scene almost pointless. The lesson Kyousuke imparted on Riki is lost because if they save everyone, Riki never truly had to grow up and live on without the Little Busters in the end. There was never a need for all this.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: hyperknees91 on December 21, 2013, 02:57:28 PM
Yeah I gotta agree with you there unfortunately, but we'll save the discussion on that for the final episode.

This is why I only watch season 1 of Clannad haha.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: MCAL on December 27, 2013, 11:12:23 AM
New LB: Ecstasy PV

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMiWAGYM2Hw

Saya's route looks... um... interesting.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: hyperknees91 on December 28, 2013, 07:08:55 AM
13: Ah jun maeda, I was so pissed with this ending when I first read it, but I see the strength in it more now.

Still I wish the man would grow some balls every so often. I mean it's not as bad as what Angel Beats, Clannad and Kanon did at least.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: MCAL on December 28, 2013, 09:35:25 AM
13:
Well that was executed much better than the VN. And no deus ex machina "Go back in time" that made no sense then and would make no sense now.

Overall, I give this a 9/10. Despite not having the balls to go against the true end, JC Staff really made this really good.

EDIT: But yes, you could interpret that ending both ways.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: hyperknees91 on December 28, 2013, 10:12:13 AM
Oh yeah JC staff didn't have any deus ex machina in this did they? Technically all Riki did was look at himself and realize that all he ever did was run away from sad things (kinda like Komari when she "broke") so yeah....nice. (guess you could say this ending had been built up since the end of the komari arc then).

Good job JC Staff, you made this a rather enjoyable ride
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Reckoner on December 28, 2013, 11:22:27 AM
13:

JC Staff did as well they could have with this but it still leaves me disappointed. Little Busters certainly is more of a journey is worth more than the end type of story.

Since the anime ended I think there's no way I can spoil anything anymore, but here's a minor rant from a VN reader like me.

Jun Maeda cut off his balls after Air. Kanon, Clannad, and Little Busters all suffer from these happy endings that undercut the emotional struggle and thematic presentation of the narrative. In Clannad's case, it's actually even more severe than it is here.

In the visual novel, as events progress you are first presented with the "Normal" ending. In the normal ending, Riki's narcolepsy kicks in after moving away from the bus and all his friends die in an explosion. Riki and Rin are left in the hospital depressed and there's a sense that all that Kyousuke gave Riki was for this moment and he would have to live life with everything his friends imparted on him. It made actual damn sense, and this should have been what the ending was about.

However, this is where Jun Maeda decides he has no freaking balls and gives you a choice in the visual novel like "it's not enough." This is where Riki somehow goes back to his birth and cures his narcolepsy in some sort of dream world, goes back in time and then redoes the moment after awakening from Kyousuke's dream world and saves the Little Busters. In the VN this is pretty much the WTF moment, what in the world are you thinking?!!!!? Yeah suffice to say, it was a poor choice.

At the very least, JC Staff did the decency of removing the deus ex machina feeling of the visual novel unlike the Clannad AS anime. So while it undercuts the emotional impact and themes of the story, it doesn't quite come off as badly. However, it's still annoying as hell and I really wish they had gone with a more BITTERsweet ending.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: hyperknees91 on December 28, 2013, 11:26:09 AM
Yet for some reason he let planetarium have a sad ending...wonder why.

Though Reckoner you and me came up with the same alternate conclusion the story should have had to be truly powerful. I feel like Jun Maeda is just a professional troll and he's doing all this intentionally because he knows he can get away with it.

At least its not as bad as angel beats. That just made the entire show look incredibly stupid.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: MCAL on December 28, 2013, 11:38:38 AM
Planetarium wasn't written by Maeda that's why.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: hyperknees91 on December 28, 2013, 12:33:16 PM
Ok the man just has no balls or is the ultimate troll then. I thought it was for some reason.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Fumoffu!! on December 28, 2013, 01:29:40 PM
13:

I would have preferred it if it had stuck to its guns on the death of the Little Busters, however I don't mind the ending so much.... Given that they chose to save them, that was pretty much the best ending they could have had, although if only Kyousuke had died I feel that would have still been a really good ending. Ah well.

Anyway, this series was very very good. In fact I decided that if the last episode was good enough I would give this a 9, which would be the first 9 I've given to a show I've watched airing. The last episode wasn't as good as it could have been.... but I felt that it deserved the 9 from me anyway. If I give Monogatari a 9 now that will be quite remarkable (I'm almost, almost caught up on that).

I think that in ways Refrain > After Story, that's what helped me give it the 9 in the end.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: MCAL on December 28, 2013, 02:10:51 PM
Ok the man just has no balls or is the ultimate troll then. I thought it was for some reason.

Apparently this new heroine for Ecstasy, Saya... Her route has a bittersweet ending, so I am definitely interested. Jun Maeda wrote it too.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Aelms on December 28, 2013, 07:00:16 PM
I imagine it more as Maeda spending weeks coming up with his ingenious heartrending and then presents them to the editors, who then proceed to stomp all over his masterpieces and give us the bastardised versions we have now.

The Series:

It took me until the Kurugaya route to realise that I was wrong about J.C. Staff ignoring the time loops as a whole. I wasn't really a fan of how subtle they made it but to a first-time viewer this might've been more effective.

Other than this little tidbit, the series had exceeded all my expectations for it. I can't say that it was better than Clannad, which felt thematically more complete, but I'm very willing to say that the dramatic scenes were very much on par with their VN counterparts. The subtle expressions that the boys of the LB had throughout Refrain really helped make their personalities more convincing.

All and all, I would probably give the entire series, counting both S1 and Refrain, a high 8/10, To justify the score a bit, I wasn't really convinced by Riki's development as much as I was by Tomoya. The show certainly had its moments and it definitely wasn't the production's fault that the source material had so many unnecessary side-plots, but it simply didn't have that convincing aspect to the adapted form that KyoAni gives to (most some of) their works.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: hyperknees91 on December 28, 2013, 07:34:06 PM
Ok the man just has no balls or is the ultimate troll then. I thought it was for some reason.

Apparently this new heroine for Ecstasy, Saya... Her route has a bittersweet ending, so I am definitely interested. Jun Maeda wrote it too.

Did Maeda write Tomoyo After...apparently that's the same. So basically as long as the work is low-key and not gonna attract a big audience, then key will make sad as crap stories haha.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: AC on December 28, 2013, 09:53:08 PM
Final:

In the visual novel, as events progress you are first presented with the "Normal" ending. In the normal ending, Riki's narcolepsy kicks in after moving away from the bus and all his friends die in an explosion. Riki and Rin are left in the hospital depressed and there's a sense that all that Kyousuke gave Riki was for this moment and he would have to live life with everything his friends imparted on him. It made actual damn sense, and this should have been what the ending was about.

You know what? I'd love to see the VN ending instead of this one. Not that I have anything against good endings; I just find the whole journey of Riki and Rin being mentally stronger individuals meaningless in view of this episode. Do they need to go through all that just so that Riki and Rin can rescue all of them? Or, as how I feel, they had to go through all that so that they can live without them i.e. they didn't survive?

On a trivial side note, I kinda feel sorry for Riki and Rin: they saved all of the students, and they don't seem to get recognized as heroes one bit. Really?

--

My thoughts on Little Busters ~Refrain~:

I wasn't so enthusiastic about this second season, primarily because the first season was nothing more than seeing kids being kids. Slowly, it turns out to be something more serious when the team breaks apart and that's when I started to pay attention. Apparently, there are a lot of subtle cues throughout the series that hint on what is really going in the plot and honestly I didn't pick them up. Maybe it's because I didn't read the VN. Still, at the end it's much better than the first season because of the plot and also the length (kinda feel that the first season was a tad long after all the fluff).

It's a weak 7/10. I can imagine how, had I read the VN, I would be affected by this series very differently. But I didn't so the only way I can grade this is purely by what I see for both seasons. Could-haves can only do so much and it's ridiculous to judge an anime purely based on them because one would be making a lot of assumptions (yes, I'm talking about what could've been if this was produced by KyoAni and had it stayed true to the VN).
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: hyperknees91 on December 29, 2013, 06:26:39 AM
Well don't blame JC Staff too much for giving us the ending they did. Blame Jun Maeda the man with no balls. The ending that happens is no different then

Clannad spoilers
Lawl you thought ushio was dead? Fooooooled you
Produced by the lovely kyoani.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: TypicalIdiotFan on December 30, 2013, 02:04:29 AM
13:

Well, here I am at the finale, left with way too big a furrow in my brow, which is never a good sign.  Sometimes this means I'm irritated.  Sometimes this means I'm confused.  In his case, it is a little of both.

I'll be blunt, I do not agree that having all the Little Busters end up actually dead would be a good ending.  That would suck balls and would serve no purpose to the narrative of the story, especially since Riki could have indeed done something about it.  Kyousuke would have just had him and Rin run away, which is what Riki always did.  Kyousuke, to a degree, didn't even believe in his own plan after all.  He was trying to give Riki and Rin a chance to live, but to live with loss.  Could you imagine that kind of emotional turmoil it would be if they just saved themselves and left the others to die?  There's a difference between accepting loss and saving your own skin.  A pet cat dies of old age... that's a loss.  A pet cat gets attacked by a dog, and you could theoretically save its life if you took it to a vet, but instead you just run away because you're afraid the cat might have a flesh eating virus that it'll give to you if you touch it... that's not dealing with loss, that's psychotic.  But this is what Kyousuke wanted.

So Riki makes the choice to save everyone, and he has one last hurdle to get over:  a deep neurosis.  I'll be blunt, I could have done without the "delving into my own past" bologna, even if it does explain his problem.  Far better idea would be to just have him snap out of it, willing himself to wake up, and then do the saving.  They could have done a flashback later where he explains what started his narcolepsy to Rin or something and it would have been fine.  It is, really, all this time wasting that gets on my nerves, and where I start getting irritated.

That bus has pot induced physics busting abilities.  Yeah, sure, Key magic, whatever.  Gas fumes are indeed flammable, however, gas doesn't behave like it is shown in this episode.  We're led to believe that, with all the broken windows, and a very large open space outside of it, that the gas is still somehow willing to linger around inside the ****ing cabin.  It gets more silly when whatever mysterious force ignites the fumes waits until everybody is saved first (initially, I assumed with the "sparking" noise going on in the background, that something electrical caused the blaze, and that would be easily fixed by UNHOOKING THE ****ING BATTERY), then somehow magically causes the non-compressed gas inside the cabin and the fuel tank to explode, because that's what happens outside of Hollywood fiction.

Okay, physics bullshit aside, if you really believe you're up against a clock or something, then Rin and Riki sure **** around a lot while doing this rescue.  I mean, in a rescue situation where time is of the essence, you don't bother to check for life signs and perform first aid BEFORE moving people out of a dangerous area.  Pull them out first, THEN do triage work.  Kyousuke, of course, was in the worst shape, and should have received aid first.  But, apparently, Kyousuke's back was capable of creating a vacuum seal with a cracked gas tank, so he couldn't move.  Whatever.

Now for the confusion:  who remembers what inside the dream world?  Unless I'm retarded, most of our heroines developed some kind of really close ties to Riki by the end.  They're all obviously friends, just like in the dream world, even though the implication is that the five additional members of the Little Busters! weren't members of team Little Busters! before all this shit went down.  If I'm wrong on that, someone correct me.  This is especially regarding Kurugaya, who fell in love with Riki.  Her feelings just not matter anymore?  I mean, the show was pretty vague on who remembered what at any given time in the time loops.  Obviously they all knew enough to leave the dream world once the time came and Kyousuke asked them to.  So... who knows what?  Is that ever explained?

As far as the ending goes, saving everybody is appropriate, though all the epilogue stuff where everybody comes back one by one seemed unnecessary to me.  I think a finale could have been served better by just having Riki visit Kyousuke in the hospital and them have a conversation about life and stuff.  Getting back together is cute and all, and shows that team Little Busters! is back in full swing back in reality this time, but... meh.  Too sappy.  They just went through some serious shit.  A little melancholy is appropriate, I would think.  Instead, we get "explosion! -> Time skeeeeeep! --> Everybody's fine!".  Kinda blah.

Overall I think the show is fine, but I'm still no where near thinking this was as good as Clannad.  I just didn't dig a lot of the characters, and I'm not 100% sure I know what the message of the show even is.  Oh well.  Was a worthwhile watch, and certainly not terrible.  7 sounds fine to me.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: MCAL on January 31, 2014, 09:52:04 AM
EX 1:
Decent start. Saya seems like the entertaining type of character. Obviously she isn't really from some intelligence agency. And naturally, Kyousuke knows more than he's letting on. I've heard good things about the ending (Apparently Jun Maeda had balls while he was writing this), so I look forward to the rest.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Kiniest on January 31, 2014, 09:55:29 AM
EX 1: I'm not quite sure what this is supposed to be about.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: MCAL on January 31, 2014, 09:59:12 AM
EX 1: I'm not quite sure what this is supposed to be about.
According to VN readers, this is supposed to be a scenario in which Riki strays from the original goal set by Kyousuke and the others. A sort of what-if scenario.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Kiniest on January 31, 2014, 10:06:42 AM
EX 1: I'm not quite sure what this is supposed to be about.
According to VN readers, this is supposed to be a scenario in which Riki strays from the original goal set by Kyousuke and the others. A sort of what-if scenario.

Well then, I'm anticipating the rest.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: MCAL on February 26, 2014, 09:14:17 PM
EX 2:
Somehow Riki being the one Saya was holding and not the other way around is very fitting.

I like how they are handling Saya's character. Rather then being annoyed by her outbursts, I can't help but feel sorry for her, because for all her spy talk and good handling with a gun, this girl has zero self-esteem. Interested in what her connection to Riki is.

And yes Riki with a gun is a very odd experience.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: MCAL on March 27, 2014, 02:55:55 PM
EX 3:
Well, now that ending was very interesting. I have a pretty good idea what Kyousuke is trying to do though. And I have to say, I feel more sorry for him then I did before.

Also, it looks like they are going for the romance. I'm sure all the Saya fans are giddy. I like her fine, thought I wouldn't say she's my favorite. That honor goes to Kurugaya by the way.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: MCAL on April 24, 2014, 01:58:32 PM
EX 4:
Yeah, I definitely think Saya is still dead and what we saw was perhaps her creating her own dream world. There are too many hints that way. First was Kyousuke's talk about the time machine. When he mentions it too Riki he's showing that slightly sad smile with his hair covering his eyes, which has almost always in anime been a sign of lying. There's also his "Would you believe if I say so?" with the key words being "If I say so" Of course there's also the fact that she asked for the treasure to be a biological weapon herself. Kyousuke has ample reason to lie too as he needs Riki to get stronger.

Now when Saya "wakes up" it is very odd that Riki just happens to be outside waiting for her and as they are running the background fades away. Though I think the most damning piece of evidence is when we see her lying in the grass and is surrounded in all those orbs of light which is symbolic of the dream world. So yeah, there's tons and tons of evidence here.

Anyway, this episode was quite good and quite possibly the darkest LB episode yet. There was a little bit of Steins Gate in the beginning as we witness most of Saya's death. Naturally, I felt quite sad for her and Riki, when she decided to kill herself in order to save him. Though, as usual I feel the worst for Kyousuke. It can't be easy for him. He needs Riki (and Rin) to get stronger, so if that means he has to hurt a friend or getting rid of a girl even though she will die then so be it. Brutal stuff really. Jun Maeda's music is always excellent (I'd say better than his writing) and Saya's song is no exception.

Next up is Sasasegawa Sasami (Did I get that right?) as she deals with turning into.... a cat?
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: MCAL on August 07, 2014, 01:56:30 PM
EX 5-6:
The arc itself was pretty entertaining, but it did feel too rushed. Most of the plot resolutions felt slightly forced.

EX 7:
This episode might have been my favorite so far. Always entertaining when a character like Kanata shows her dere side.

And the ending was pretty powerful.
Title: Re: Little Busters!
Post by: Redgrave on August 07, 2014, 05:36:00 PM
Oh finally we're in Kanata's arc now. Been waiting for this like forever.